I'll call it NOWRUZ, if you call him OWBAWMO

NOROOZ is the most phonetically correct spelling

Balatarin
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I'll call it NOWRUZ, if you call him OWBAWMO
by bahmani
24-Mar-2009
 

Once again, it begins again.

One of the signs that the new year is upon us, is the continued debate surrounding the Yarshater camp (more on that later) spelling of NOWRUZ.

And every year it seems, someone brings me flawed data to support this aberration and attempt to amend common English phonetic rules.

Now don't get me wrong. Here's my point:

- I am in no way suggesting you must spell it my way or that I even have a "way".

- I say that NOWRUZ isn't as successful a spelling as is possible.

- I do not think we need to have one correct spelling. Just look at Hannukah.

This year though, I was presented with yet another reason that I must agree to be coerced into using NOWRUZ;

UNITY

It was told to me, that we must all accept NOWRUZ to show we can unify and as a sign of Iranian community solidarity.

To be sure you the reader understand this, because I bet some of you will undoubtedly have an opinion, I'll carefully craft this next sentence.

I'll even space it out so you can fully digest what you may be about to comment for, or against;

NOWRUZ, according to established, undeniable, unamendable English phonetic rules that govern the likely pronunciation of words written in English, is pronounced as; (ready?)

NOW as in: HOW NOW BROWN COW

RUZ as in: RUG, BUG, HUG, MUG

So our most positive and precious asset in cultural relationship building, if spelled as NOWRUZ would rhyme with COWBUG.

Got it?

NOROOZ is the most phonetically correct (more on proof later) spelling. But for some reason choosing the obvious and more importantly, phonetically correct spelling, is not an option for building unity. Apparently.

So yeah, there's UNITY now.

The Yarshater camp, since their unauthorized, uninvited, and self imposed assignment to get UNESCO to record NR as a unique Persian cultural heritage trait, somehow got onto spelling it as NOWRUZ. Claiming that the top Persian language linguists in the world all agreed on the NOWRUZ spelling as best.

The flaw as it appears to me, is that to identify the best English spelling, you would consult with English linguists not Persian, then say the word to them as you wish it to be pronounced in English, and ask them to write it in English, so native English speakers could pronounce it correctly themselves, whenever they read it in books and papers, unaided.

Unfortunately according to this "New Unimproved English" being pushed by the Yarshater camp via their coercion in getting numerous publishings, and press releases by the White House, congress, groups like NIAC, and naively supportive foundations like PAIIA and WIKIPEDIA, you'd have to also spell OBAMA (also not a traditional English word) as OWBOMO. OW to get that same desired Yarshater-Persian inflection. And BOMO, to get the rest of it the same way the Yarshater camp wants you to speak.

And of course, all of this is supposed to make total sense. Ask or question it, and you are apparently, quite the un-Iranian, as this new unification demand goes.

Even though I knew it, I figured I'd have to test it. You can't just be right these days. You need a survey to suggest anything in the Iranian universe.

So I tested the NOWRUZ spelling. 96% said it WRONG!

I then tested NOROOZ. 98% said it CORRECT!

But don't believe me or my survey. Please, do your own test. It's super easy. Here's how:

Step 1: Ask 100 Americans if they know the name of the Persian New Year. (If they do, give them some shirini and tea, wish them a happy new year and move on to someone else.)

Step 2: If they do not know the name of the Persian new year, show them the word NOWRUZ and ask them to say it out loud. Do the same with a different group of Americans using NOROOZ and record the results.

And this would be the end of this discussion. If we were not Iranian. For as all Iranian disagreements go, the one who is wrong, almost never admits it. Especially if they are older, like the Yarshater camp, and especially if you suggest they are wrong socially or in public. For if you are younger, you must have stacked the deck, or you must have done this or that or some other sneaky trick to make them look wrong or mistaken. It is never a mistake on their part. Always you are wrong. And shame on you for your dis-respect of your elders.

Now with this latest attempt to bring UNITY in as the leash to heel everyone who spells it purely phonetically, the NOWRUZ gang has shifted it's oppressive tactics to playing on your sense of community.

When are you ever going to learn to do the right thing, and accept this embarrassing spelling? Huh? When? Can't you see you are being disloyal? Just because you think our spelling is wrong doesn't give you the right to stop us from using it.

WTF?

And so goes the argument or non-argument, updated with UNITY, this year. Always made defiantly. In total denial of any slightest possibility for error.

The government of Iran has also, by the way, finally weighed in on this recently. And true to Persian form, has sanctioned the official government spelling as; NOROUZ.

Go figure...

HAPPY YOU KNOW WHAT...

Balatarin
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A Scientist; what????? How

by Norooz (not verified) on Wed Mar 25, 2009 09:32 AM PDT

A Scientist; what?????

How about if I suggest we change Noshahr to Newshahr?

Or in Farsi we change Noshahr to Newshahr?! Or Nozad to Newzad?! The way we prounounce New York in Farsi to No York. This can go on for ever!

See how dogmatic and unreasonable the argument about Nowruz can become? Anything but the actual correct pronounciation.


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Amir Kabir-e samanoo khor so

by Norooz (not verified) on Wed Mar 25, 2009 08:47 AM PDT

Amir Kabir-e samanoo khor so you admit Nowruz is pronounced as "NOW and pause and then Ruz". Good we agree on something. However, that is not HOW we prounouce Norooz in Farsi and that is the whole point.


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I would suggest the

by A scientist (not verified) on Wed Mar 25, 2009 08:46 AM PDT

I would suggest the following and here is why:

Newrooz

becaue now rooz or nowruz means nead day and in spanish which has latin as its origin as parsi, they have nueve for new . so if yoe pronouce new as now by weak emphasis on the e then it will serve the purpose and also the meaning for english speaking people beomes more clear and built in.

so please promote newrooz as the new day od the new year.

bedoord


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It shall remain Nowruz :)

by Amir Kabir finishing a pot full of samanoo (not verified) on Wed Mar 25, 2009 06:36 AM PDT

Please note the difference between Nowruz and Norooz.

When in English you read the word "Norooz" and you are not an Iranian, then you will read it as you would read the word "Forooz" or "Orooze" in Persian, no pause.

When you read the word "Nowruz" in English and you are not an Iranian. You will read it as NOW and pause and then Ruz.

That is precisely why Iranica chose Nowruz as the correct spelling, because the word has a phonetic pause after "W" that would make the word sound correct. So instead of sounding like Forooz, or Orooze, it will sound like Firooz, or Deerooze, with a forced phonetic pause in the middle of the word and precisely the way it should be pronounced.

So, it is not that who decides what he or she likes to call it, what is important is what spelling will give the correct sounding and pauses. Thanks

Happy Nowruz


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Yara

Makes sense

by Yara on Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:58 PM PDT

I spell it No Rooz.


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I certainly agree that

by ALN (not verified) on Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:41 PM PDT

I certainly agree that Norooz is the closest to the English phonetics in order NOT to have our New Year butchered phonetically.
I have an Afghan friend who definitely pronounces it as Nowrooz-- Obviously there's the Afghan accent for you.
But initially I had one objection to using N-O-r-O-O-z (for my own correspondence) and that was the number of Os there are in this word which make it not that appealing on paper!

So I used Norouz for a while, but then as it's been said here, I found out that some do confuse 'rouz' and pronounce the "rouz " as in c 'ows '.( although Norouz did look prettier on paper)

So I'm back where I was using Norooz again!

But I must say that the different pronunciations of Norooz are many in the different parts of the world that celebrate the Spring Equinox and it is celebrated in these countries:

Iran, Armenia, Republic of Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Dubai, Georgia, Iraq, parts of Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan , Uzbekistan and also parts of Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, North-West China and Crimea.

Therefore the variations in pronunciation of Norooz become obvious.

Even in parts of Kurdistan the 'Z' in Norooz is pronounced as 'Zh' or like 'Jour' in French, so it is pronounced : Noroj.

But until there is a better explanation or pronunciation. I am going to write and celebrate NOROOZ at the time of arrival of new life and Spring!


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Norooz it shall be

by Berkeley mom (not verified) on Tue Mar 24, 2009 09:28 PM PDT

I recently did a presentation about Norooz at my son's school and I did spell it Norooz Just as it is.Then I saw their teacher had a newsletter out and spelled it Nowruz. Did not want to argue with her. She probably got it from Wikipedia. But then today I had an Afghan patient and asked her how she pronounces it and she replied: Nowrooz. now go figure.
Berkeley mom


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The great dictator will solve it for us

by Amir Kabir celebrating KnowWrooze (not verified) on Tue Mar 24, 2009 05:46 PM PDT

I think you are placing too much stress on how an "American" would pronounce the Nowruz and that should not be a model for a universe.

If we are too paranoid about how an American would pronounce our new year celebration, then we should take the safest approach and force each and every one of Americans to spell it this way:

KNOWROOZ

Knowrooz would be the closest phonetic spelling that would lead to correct pronunciation! But it certainly looks ridiculous doesn't it?

An Afghan most likely pronounce our holiday as NowRuz. If you don't believe me, try asking 100 Afghan brothers. Then move on Tajiks and see what is their preferences and then move on to Finland, Sweden, Kenya, Mozambique, etc.

In my humble opinion and with regards to your concern for unity, I think it is of matter of importance and respect and unity that we trust and respect Professor Yarshater and his team for the excellent job they have been doing.

It would not be an exaggeration if we say that Iranica staff know far more about Persian language than all of us in this forum combined.

For the sake of unity let's go with Yarshater's suggestion and once we got a military officer in charge of our destiny in Iran, who could prove to be a true dictator, then we'll put it in a referendum and the great dictator will most likely go with KNOW-WROOZE and will execute anyone who would mispronounce it, and we will stage a revolution and will change the regime with the help of BBC.

Until then happy Nowruz.


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Souri

My dear Bruce

by Souri on Tue Mar 24, 2009 05:12 PM PDT

I had already posted an explanation (was an email from a friend) on how we should write and pronounce it as Nowruz.

But, to be honest, I feel more in tune with you and your reasoning, although it will be hard now to change all the writing spelling of Nowruz on all the resolution got from the governors and congressmen....

I don't know where all this debate had started first ? :-)


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Excellent. I think the

by sickofiri (not verified) on Tue Mar 24, 2009 05:10 PM PDT

Excellent. I think the Kurdish and Afghani pronounciation of the word matches the spelling...


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IRANdokht

very reasonable

by IRANdokht on Tue Mar 24, 2009 04:41 PM PDT

I have a hard time accepting the Nowruz or Nowrooz spelling and have shied away from using it, because even I read it wrong!  But just like everything else, Iranians will not agree on this issue either, we never do! 

Happy Norooz to you Mr Bahmani

IRANdokht


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Common Sense

by hossein.hosseini on Tue Mar 24, 2009 04:33 PM PDT

Mr. Bahmani,

Your article is the most easy to understand, no non-sense, logical piece I have read on the subject. I will only add one to it, write 'Norooz' and "Nowruz' on a piece of paper and ask any 6-years old kid to read back to you as I did; guess what? The one closest to our pronounciation was 'Norooz'. We live in America and if we want Americans to pronounce our new year correctly, then we should write it as you suggest. As for  the Yarshater crowd, I suggest they read "The Wisdom of Crowds" by James Surowiecki.

Happy Norooz to all:)

 


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Bahmani I could not agree

by Norooz (not verified) on Tue Mar 24, 2009 04:27 PM PDT

Bahmani I could not agree with you more! Finally! Someone with basic common sense and not so ambitious to jump in bed with some nutjob spelling bee judge who started this nonsense.

It is Norooz once and for all. It will change to Nowruz when Persian Gulf changes to Arabian Gulf. Never!

Norooz! Norooz! Norooz! Happy Norooz to all!


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ganselmi

I don't think it's silly to

by ganselmi on Tue Mar 24, 2009 04:19 PM PDT

I don't think it's silly to share the name of our holiday Amirrostam2.

Point taken Bahmani, I will write it as "Norooz" from now on.


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Just call it Persian New Year or Iranian New Year

by amirrostam2 (not verified) on Tue Mar 24, 2009 03:53 PM PDT

It is silly to insist on imposing a Persian or Farsi word in the English language. It means new day or new year so just call it that. Norouz, Norooz, I saw somewhere Nawrooz, the mind boggles at Iranian chartanisms.


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