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Back From Iran
15-Jul-2010
"I just got back from Iran."
In today's America, that's a conversation-stopper. Those of us able to say it become temporary objects of fascination, like our grandparents would have been if they had visited China or the Soviet Union in the 1950s. Traveling to Iran makes one seem like a bold adventurer on a dangerous foray into enemy territory.
The reality is more prosaic. Although few Americans visit Iran, there is in fact no legal obstacle to doing so. I accompanied a group of American tourists on a thousand-mile, two-week trip through the country. We met no government or opposition leaders, but we were free to talk with ordinary Iranians, and did so at every stop. Because the government has made it difficult for Western journalists to work in Iran, traveling the country this way may now be the best way to gauge its people's mood.
The first thing that strikes Americans who visit Iran is how amazingly pro-American its people are. Nowhere else in the Middle East, nowhere else in the Muslim world, and almost nowhere else on earth do people so unreservedly admire the United States. Opinion surveys confirm this phenomenon, and I remembered it from previous visits. Nonetheless it was disorienting, in the heart of the purported axis of evil, to to be surrounded, as I was at Imam Square in Isfahan, by giddy female college students shrieking "We love America so much!" At a Persian garden in Kashan, I met a solemn elder whose only English phrase is "America very good," and who pronounced it with grave reverence.
Pro-American feeling in Iran is due mainly to Iranians' admiration for what the United States has achieved. Americans have what many Iranians want: democracy, personal freedom, and rule of law. Their desire for these blessings is not abstract or transitory. It is the product of their century of striving toward liberal democracy. Since the Constitutional Revolution of 1906, generations of Iranians have assimilated democratic ideals. Today their society is the opposite of their regime: open, tolerant, and eager to engage with the world. There is more long-term potential for democracy in Iran than almost anywhere else in the Muslim Middle East.
Pro-American sentiment in Iran is a priceless strategic asset for the US. A military attack would liquidate or at least severely weaken this asset. It would probably turn the most pro-American population in the Middle East into anti-Americans, further undermining the US position in the world's most volatile region.
The second thing I learned in Iran is that last year's explosion of anti-government protest is finished, at least for the moment. Governments use repression against protesters for the simple reason that it usually works. It has worked in Iran. Many people are unhappy -- it is impossible to estimate how many -- but no one I met predicted more upheaval soon. Life is reasonably good for most Iranians, and a possibly stolen election is not enough to force them from their homes to face beatings and arrest.
This suggests that if there are to be any negotiations with Iran over the next few years -- the amount of time it may take for the Iranian nuclear program to mature -- they will have to be with the current regime. Postponing a broad negotiating offer in the hope that the regime may fall is unrealistic.
Finally, I was struck -- though not surprised -- by the unanimity with which Iranians, even those who joined last year's protests and fervently support the reform agenda, reject help from the US or any other outside power.
"Many people don't like the regime, but they don't want the Americans to come and rule us," a shopkeeper in the Shiraz bazaar told me. "They would rather live under a regime they don't like than a regime placed in power by foreigners."
This sentiment is widespread and powerful in Iran. The reason is to be found in modern history. For most of the 19th and 20th centuries, Iran was ravaged by foreigners who subjugated its people and looted its resources. Whenever Iran has sought to modernize -- whether by building a steel mill in the 1930s or by nationalizing its oil industry in the 1950s -- outsiders have intervened to block it. This has made Iranians as sensitive to foreign intervention as any people in the world. It leads them to reject political forces that they see as sponsored, supported, or encouraged from abroad.
Some Americans would like to see Congress and President Obama embrace Iran's democratic movement vigorously and publicly. But not even the movement's own leaders want this support. Far from helping them, an endorsement from Washington would stigmatize them and de-legitimize their cause. Americans often assume that their support for like-minded friends in the world is helpful. In Iran, it would not be.
"Bush was very bad," mused a math teacher I found sitting beneath a fig tree in the town of Rayen. "Obama is a little better. But Iranian people believe that when America and England look at Iran and Arab countries, it is only because they want to steal what we have."
Sobering realities shape Iranian politics: There will be no regime change soon, and there is little the West can do to hasten it. Nonetheless, Iran may have more democratic potential than almost any other society in the Muslim world. Seventy percent of Iranians are under the age of 30. Change will come, but at Iran's pace, not America's.
In the meantime, centrifuges will keep spinning at Iran's nuclear plants. This looming crisis cries out for creative diplomacy, but Washington remains frozen in the paradigm of confrontation.
First published in HuffingtonPost.com.
AUTHOR
Stephen Kinzer is an author and newspaper reporter. He is a veteran New York Times correspondent who has reported from more than fifty countries on five continents.
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This is really Odd
by Doctor X on Mon Jul 19, 2010 08:01 PM PDTObama:
You can go on and Cuss Israel until the cows come home, Just don't take up your magic want and move around and point to anyone that in your mind maybe might be an AIPAC supporter, Yet you DO NOT have any evidence to back that up, As a real Israeli Lobbyist.
Remember doing that?
It is not that "we cann not say that now?". it is a lot deeper than that.
Obama, I support freedom of speech for all sides
by AMIR1973 on Mon Jul 19, 2010 05:45 PM PDTPeople should be free to criticize the IRI and IRI supporters as they please, as well as Zionism, Zionists, and Israel.
Amir, my comment was deleted by democratic dialogue advocates!
by obama on Mon Jul 19, 2010 05:51 PM PDTYes, the last one where I blasted IRI; at the same I said that there would never be peace in the ME as long as this racist and baby killer Israel is there! I am sure the same zionists flagged it. That's why they are so quiet now!
We cannot even say that now? I guess these zionists are trying hard to control all forms of freedom of speech even on our own site! Amazing! No wonder the world hates these racist war rmongers!
Freedom of speech on this site!
Kinzer, the Wise American
by Mola Nasredeen on Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:24 AM PDTMr Kinzer explains his views about US policies in the Middle East as follow:
"We need to be looking forward into the twenty-first century and figuring out how do we want to conform our policies toward the Middle East in a way that will be beneficial to us and produce the result that, in the long run, is going to be good for the United States in the Middle East, which is stability. The policies we’ve followed up to now have manifestly failed to do that. During all this period that the US has been a dominant force in the Middle East, we have wound up producing a region that is a pit of violence and hatred and terror and war. So, we’re in a situation like Einstein referred to, I think, when he defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results. That’s what we’re doing in the Middle East. "
Mr Kinzer is not blind, he can see that billions of dollars has been spent on aimless wars while millions of Americans are unemployed, bankrupt and losing their homes. hundreds of schools have closed due to shortage of funds, thousands of teachers are layed off, many states are bankrupt and can't pay the civil servants and the list it too long to continue here.
Enter Israel's Lobby that is itching to start a war with Iran and drag United States even deeper into new wars. Mr Kinzer and like minded Americans (who are wise enough to see the problem) are trying to put a stop to this failed policy. Attacking Iran is not going to help anybody but Israel.
Misreading Iran
by Khashayarsha on Mon Jul 19, 2010 05:07 AM PDTIt is hardly surprising that the 20% or so Iranians who can speak English are always the ones to talk to foreign journalists..and they tend to say they "love America" to them.
Also, being "pro-American" does not mean agreeing with US-Zionist foreign policies of war, sanctions and subversion in the Middle East.
Dear Obama,
by AMIR1973 on Sun Jul 18, 2010 09:14 PM PDTYou make many good points. Shab-e shoma beh kheyr.
Yes, Mola the armchair "Zionist" hunter
by Onlyiran on Mon Jul 19, 2010 07:57 AM PDTYou say:
Brother Obama, and they want to sanction, starve and bomb these sisters who are living in our beautiful Shiraz. Isn't it outrageous?
Indeed it is outrageous for foreigners who want to bomb these beautiful sisters. But you know what's even more outrageous? When the regime that you support and that currently rules Iran does that itself to those beautiful sisters, like this one:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbVfs8N9-I4&feature=related&skipcontrinter=1
The young girl in the video was indeed beautiful.
Incidentally, Mola, when you were complaining about people whining and not doing anything, this is what you said:
"You're expecting others to demonstrate for you on the streets of Iran get arrested and beaten up and maybe imprisoned "
I noticed that you did not mention "killed and tortured", which makes you a bigger propagandist than the IRI itself. The IRI has admitted that at least 20 people died in the protests (the real number is around 110), and it has even said that it has sentenced two people to death for three deaths that took place at Kahrizak--presumably under torture. You, by not mentioning the deaths (and saying "maybe imprisoned"), have topped the IRI in propaganda and hiding of atrocities. I guess it will be appropriate for even the IRI to call you a liar and a propagandist!!
Interesting!
by G. Rahmanian on Sun Jul 18, 2010 08:24 PM PDTStephen Kinzer claims:
"Finally, I was struck -- though not surprised -- by the unanimity with which Iranians, even those who joined last year's protests and fervently support the reform agenda, reject help from the US or any other outside power."
I wonder how many millions of Iranians he managed to talk to during his short trip. Can't he even suspect that many people fear expressing their true feelings about sensitive issues when talking in public? ESPECIALLY under IR where many Iranians are being excuted for merely protesting fraudulent elections.
Perhaps he has not been following the executions of innocent Iranians since last year's pseudo-election.
Or probably he finds those executions legitimate!
Whoops!
by Doctor X on Sun Jul 18, 2010 03:27 PM PDTThat was intended for Obama. Sorry magas. I will get to you later and address your needs.
Obama and Magas
by Doctor X on Sun Jul 18, 2010 03:26 PM PDTYou Know for Fact that this is the case? Would you be willing to Reveal your evidence and prove your claim? Or Would we just have to take your word for it, that You just know that to be a proven and tried tactic of Nokarane Israel? Would it be safe to assume that you came up with this while looking at this photo and your lab o loche started to water and decided to mumble something?
I'd suggest you put the book down and get some time off work , buy a powerful laptop, put your detective cap on, And Sherlock Holms Varaneh, start looking for those "paid agents".
NOt only it has Savab (since you would be doing a service to your iran and showing your love for it) but you are bound to make a huge sum of cash, you can safely quit your job and go on TV and start an Infomercial service teaching others to do the same. You know how many people are out there wanting to learn how to do this? You will create so many jobs, it will be a boon to iran and US economy.
Mola, I'm sorry about your friend Kaveh :-(
by AMIR1973 on Sun Jul 18, 2010 03:04 PM PDTMaybe, you, Magas, and Afrasiabi can purchase matching neck braces .-)
//iranian.com/main/2010/jul/kaveh-afrasiabi
Obama, I hear you
by Mola Nasredeen on Sun Jul 18, 2010 02:45 PM PDTThat's why I voted for you! As you said some are paid propaganda agents and I believe some are just basket cases. "Deer Omadan and Zood Mikhan Beran" as the saying goes.
Obama
by AMIR1973 on Sun Jul 18, 2010 01:58 PM PDTAghayeh Obama, man ba shoma ta hala hich eshkali nadashtam. Beh nazar-e man, goor beh goor-e Esrail va goor beh goor-e Felestin. Fahmadind? Marg bar Esrail va marg bar Felestin. Man na Esraili hastam, na Yahoodi hastam, na ta hala Esrail raftam. Een do taraf (Magas va Mola) daem tarafdari mikonand az een hokumat-e nang-e ashghal beh esm-e Jomhuri-yeh Eslami. Man, mesl-e shoma, mokhalef-e een hokumat hastam. Man nah beh Esrail va na beh Felestin hich kari daram.
Rooz-e shoma khosh va ghorban-e shoma.
Mola, I totally agree w/U here! Zionists even attack a good jew!
by obama on Sun Jul 18, 2010 01:49 PM PDTI know Israel and the zionists are behind all these sanctions. As I said earlier, please read the new book about the oil (I am reading it now. that's why i don't spend much time here!): "The Prize", the epic quest for oil, money & power. by Daniel Yergin."
There are number of zionist new comers here that their only task is to disrupt any pro-iranian postings here by accusing any IRANI-YEH VATAN PARAST as "IRI groupies!" This is a typical zioinist tactic to label and demonize their oppositions. Just ignore them! Just say your piece of mind, as you just did!
We always have people like this. Also, there are some who might be paid propaganda agents of Israel/AIPAC.... but we don't know which ones!
peace and prosperity for Iran! Marg bar IRI & Israel! cheshmeh hassoudayeh iran koor besheh! Long live Iran lovers!
Darivari and chert-o-pert from the IRI Twins: Mola & Magas
by AMIR1973 on Sun Jul 18, 2010 01:48 PM PDTSuppose you fascists get your way and turn Iran into Iranestan (as Marhoum Shah said), then, will you be able to dominate the Middle East, and steal nicely and easily from then on?
A) Islamo-fascist Khodeti b) If your "bi savad" Islamist mind can absorb this: I don't give a damn about Israel or the Arabs. To hell with Israel and the Palestinians both. As far as I'm concerned, the Israelis and the Arabs can do whatever they want to each other. It's the Islamo-fascists on Iranian.com who never want to stop talking about Israel, Beautiful Gaza, etc, etc. Nothing will make me happier than for the Palestinians to get their own state--if for no other reason than so that the Islamo-fascists on Iranian.com stop trying to distract people with their Palestine nonsense. Happy, Ey Bi Savad? Now, do you know how pathetic and hypocritical it is for an IRI Groupie that supports an anti-American terrorist regime to live in that same country? Take a hike and get out of this great land. Take your fellow Islamo-fascist Mola with you and tell him that the Islamists like Ayat. Kashani and Navvab Safavi helped overthrow Mosaddeq. Cheers .-)Lets see what Mr Kinzer says about Iran, British empire and BP
by Mola Nasredeen on Sun Jul 18, 2010 01:20 PM PDTLet's remember at that time British Petrolium (BP the same company that has has polluted the waters of Gulf of Mexico) was stealing our oil.
"After World War II, the winds of nationalism and anti-colonialism blew through the developing world. In Iran, nationalism meant one thing: we’ve got to take back our oil. Driven by this passion, Parliament voted on April 28, 1951, to choose its most passionate champion of oil nationalization, Mohammad Mossadegh, as prime minister. Days later, it unanimously approved his bill nationalizing the oil company. Mossadegh promised that, henceforth, oil profits would be used to develop Iran, not enrich Britain."
And Mr Kinzer continues to expose the foreign powers who overthrow Mosaddegh's government:
"The British took a series of steps meant to push Mossadegh off his nationalist path. They withdrew their technicians from Abadan, blockaded the port, cut off exports of vital goods to Iran, froze the country’s hard-currency accounts in British banks, and tried to win anti-Iran resolutions from the U.N. and the World Court. This campaign only intensified Iranian determination. Finally, the British turned to Washington and asked for a favor: please overthrow this Mosaddegh for us so we can have our oil company back."
//www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-kinzer/bp-in-the-gulf----the-per_b_629242.html
And this is what's happening now but this time it's Israel, Israel Lobby, and Zionist groupies who are pushing United States for another overthrow of Iranian regime. But Mr Kinzer respectfully and lovingly disagrees with the warmongers, that's all.
Brother Obama, and they want to sanction, starve and bomb these sisters who are living in our beautiful Shiraz. Isn't it outrageous?
Are you blind? Don't you see these gorgeous girls in front?
by obama on Sun Jul 18, 2010 01:08 PM PDTLook for something right for a change! You are busy attcking each other and the writer. Democacy means people have the right to think differently. Anytime you disagree, you attack the person(s). sh......
This is the proof that it is not only IRI that is anti-dmocracy, you the ones who are yearning for democracy are indeed have the same frame of mind, but you don't have the power of IRI!
That said, it is ok to disagree with zionists (enemies of Iran)! Ok, you can now start attacking me! Go ahead make your day!
Enjoy the God's beauty in Shiraz sitting in front of the Hafezieh! Relax you guys! Don't worry, be happy!
I don't know "Mola"
by Onlyiran on Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:38 PM PDTKinzer is a Jew, and as you once said about Jews, even the nice ones are "wolves in sheep's clothing". So, taking your advice, I will never trust him. :-)
Byond Iranestan! (to Amir jaan)
by marhoum Kharmagas on Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:20 PM PDTCan you go beyond your frequent and boring tantrums, and answer my question:
Suppose you fascists get your way and turn Iran into Iranestan (as
Marhoum Shah said), then, will you be able to dominate the Middle East, and steal nicely and easily from then on?
BTW, did you watch this clip:
//wakeupfromyourslumber.com/video/nepos-liber...
Scroll down and watch Shah's interview with Mike Wallace.
It is ironic that some of the worst "Iranian" AIPAC sycophants are Shahis, isn't it pathetic!?
Kinzer and previous NY Times journalists
by AMIR1973 on Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:29 AM PDTWalter Duranty put out propaganda for Stalin's USSR while serving as the Moscow Bureau Chief of the NY Times:
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Duranty
Herbert Matthews was a reporter and editorialist for the NY Times who conducted a famous interview with Fidel Castro, which significantly increased Castro's prominence and helped his rise to power:
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Matthews
Speaking of Brother Castro, his article can be found near the top of the CASMII IRI lobby's website, where Brother Kinzer also has a presence:
//www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/10549
//www.campaigniran.org/CASMII/index.php?q=node/2583
Mola Nas.
by Doctor X on Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:25 AM PDTThen why don't you follow his footsteps and start loving people of other countries as well, and stop labelling them?
Kharveezak
by Doctor X on Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:22 AM PDTWhy is everything that you say and advocate for has it basis on Domination and absolute rule? Why insist on being a renegade? Why enocouraging and supporting a set of policies that leads up to more isolation of our country? What have our people have done to deserve this?
Wake up to the new world order baboojan.
There is global economy, Not gol o bolbol that you are striving for, meaning all countries would have to work with another and depend on each other to some extent for the betterment and prosperity of their own citizens. Though in your mind, "domination" might still be the buzzword that get you all excited, In reality it is meaningless.
Once again, Try to make that distinction between Global vs Gol o bolbol. Change the dictionary u are using, if you have to.
Oh yeah and give a copy to your Bro here as well.
Lets find out who Mr Kinzer is
by Mola Nasredeen on Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:12 AM PDTIs he a supporter of "Fascism"? Lets find out:
"Stephen Kinzer is a United States author and newspaper reporter. He is a veteran New York Times correspondent who has reported from more than fifty countries on five continents. During the 1980s he covered revolution and social upheaval in Central America. In 1990, he was promoted to bureau chief of the Berlin bureau and covered the growth of Eastern and Central Europe as they emerged from Soviet rule. He was also New York Times bureau chief in Istanbul Turkey from 1996 to 2000. He currently teaches journalism and United States foreign policy at Northwestern University." //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Kinzer
Then I can conclude "he must be an educated American professor who's been involved with world affairs all his working life. Is he an American who hates America? On the contrary he loves America and Americans but his love doesn't stop here. He loves the residents of other countries too. Be it in Middle East or Latin America.
Grow up! You and hundreds of you will not be able to shut the voice of Wise Americans such as Mr Kinzer.
Dadash Magas is "desparate" .-)
by AMIR1973 on Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:43 AM PDTAfarin beh shoma, shagerd avval-e IRI Groupie-ha :-)
Why are America-residing/America-hating IRI propagandists so illiterate? Even worse than being illiterate, they are Islamo-fascist hypocrites who call opponents of their fascist, killing and stealing regime "fascists". Decent people recognize that Islamo-fascism is a menace to all humanity, especially to innocent Muslims. America learned that lesson on 9/11, though Iranians learned it 3 decades ago.
Isn't it pathetic!? (to Only"Iran")
by marhoum Kharmagas on Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:22 AM PDTOnly"Iran" says: "I don't need an IRI mozdoor like you to clown around it anyway."
To you AIPACis, anyone who questions U.S/Israeli domination of region is a mozdoor. I bet even if Shah was alive and he had stayed in his path of not allowing Israeli lobby to dicatate him, AIPAC sycophants would be calling him mozdoor:
//wakeupfromyourslumber.com/video/nepos-liber...
Scroll down and watch Shah's interview with Mike Wallace.
It is ironic that some of the worst "Iranian" AIPAC sycophants are Shahis, isn't it pathetic!?
Brothers & sisters Kharmagas and Mola Naserdin, you two
by pastor bill rennick on Sun Jul 18, 2010 09:46 AM PDTmake a perfect couple! Stop by my church and I will wed you in an eternal matrimony!
That's Great Magas
by Onlyiran on Sun Jul 18, 2010 09:38 AM PDThe actauuly acknowledged your existence. That's definitely cause for celebration. Perhaps he will next acknowledge that you are a homo sapien (goes against the weight of the evidence, but hey...).
PS- I'm glad that you sstay out of my blogs. As you can see--and unlike you-- my blogs have enough readers / commenters. I don't need an IRI mozdoor like you to clown around it anyway.
Only"Iran"!
by marhoum Kharmagas on Sun Jul 18, 2010 09:32 AM PDTIt seems you spent some time reading my comments/blog to Mammad (considering that I don't read any of your ...t, that is great)! BUT you DID not read my Questioning of his position regarding the sanctions (it is in one of Fred's blogs: //iranian.com/main/blog/fred-121 and here: //iranian.com/main/blog/fariba-amini/thy-fath... if you scroll down).
He BTW answered one of my questions, he did not answer the other, because he does not have an answer for it.
Amir, a spelling correction to my question for you: Suppose you fascists get your way and turn Iran into Iranestan (as
Marhoum Shah said), then, will you be able to dominate the Middle East,
and steal nicely and easily from then on?
Onlyiran
by Doctor X on Sun Jul 18, 2010 09:19 AM PDTLOL!
His problems call for A whole new medical procedure. He wants domination of the Mid east. Something, somewhere deep needs to be removed pronto, and be replace with a plastic implant or even Cotton implant in order to reduce the activity by several orders of magnitude.
Kharamagas
It may look like i am desparate for atention but if you think about it, i am just looking out for ya. With these thoughts in your head, you are a danger to yourself and your immediate surrondings.
Inam jaye tashakoresh bood masalan:))
Oh Lord
by Doctor X on Sun Jul 18, 2010 09:12 AM PDTWhat a bunch of Oxymorons.
"Oh, all we want is peace and prosperity, Independence for our iran" But Let us create Do dastegi in the meantime, By restorting to name calling and Labelling people as AIPAC and Israeli Lobby.
Magas jan.
I think you should first define sycophatasmatastic , that you came up with before and then move on to other terms. One advanced concept at a time buddy.