NUTS

Amergin

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.". 

Thomas Jefferson at his best.   I hear the founding fathers eliminated some 700 words from his original write up of the US declaration of Independence.   Something else that is important to note, especially for us Iranians is that the document was released 2 years before the final defeat of the British and it served as a strong tool to achieve victory.   I think if us Iranians could agree on and issue a similar declaration, we would get closer of ridding of the mullahs.   Some, wrongfuly, have tried to write 200 page constitutions, etc.... but all we need at this point is an easily understood half page declaration that would deal with most important generalities. 

spike:

"You're going to have to overthrow your own thugocracy"

Now we are getting some place...thank you and I hope Iranians do take care of their problem (i.e. IRI) real soon.  But the important thing is that that is the Iranian problem and only Iranians ought to choose what and when and how to replace them with.

Mehrdad

Amergin

How can you be sure that he actually served in the army? This is an internet forum afterall, have you checked his credentials? Unless you know him Upclose and seen the proof (which you can claim you have done that too, but how can I know for sure??) there is no way you can prove anything.

Look. Buddy. This man has no respect for human lives. He compares the rate of soldiers killed in the war with the crime rate in Californian and thinks it is okay . Serving intimately with other races as noble and ideal as it maybe, does not necessarily exonerate one from being a racist.

IT would be too much to trust anyone for anything that they claim to be just by seeing and reading their material online. No one can nor should be that naive. do you dig that? But thanks for your detective work. How much do i owe you?

You can think that i am undermining something here, but in reality i am just expressing my views for all thatthey are worth, You are free to think. assume, deduce, anything that rocks your boat.

BTW , Richard land, The god father of Christian baptists convention,representing the biggest chunk of Ultraconservatives, has argued heavily in favor of Legalizing illegals.

Spikeronie

Hatred?

Hmm. I guess it only takes one who practices hatred to know others LOL. very tacky there:)

Yes. Indeed. making fun of others is quite atrocious. Have it ingrained in your Patriotic brain.

Dr X?

I understand Spike.  If he was in the US military as he claims and on the pointy end which means he was a combat marine, airborne or special forces, he seems actually very measured given his unique and extreme point of view particularly when responding to others.  There are just not that many of those guys and in my experience they hold similar stances.  They hate the enemy but are generally not racist given that they served intimately with many races and religions.

But after reading your posts more closely I am doubting that you actually believe much of what you are saying.  And it just looks suspicious for the point of view you are representing.  Really who calls a combat veteran a "fake american."  Its just too much.

So I have to ask you.  Are you really a fundamentalist ultra conservative Christian hanging about trying to undermine intelligent discussion on an Iranian website?

Amergin...

I see what you are saying about the secret societies.  Like I said, I'm not much of a joiner myself.  And the secret societies tend to lead to some pretty whacky conspiracy theories.

You're right about the similarities between Bush and Kerry, although Bush actually had a slightly higher college GPA than Kerry or Gore.

Spike

I mentioned secret societies.  I merely implying my distaste for The Masons and Skull and Bones among others.  The natural inclination of the elite to consolidate power off the grid in back rooms without the light day on things always leads to decay.

When Bush and Kerry ran against one another I had a hard time telling them apart or buying into either as my candidate:  Two trust fund guys, sketchy war records, both attending Yale, both in Skull and Bones.  I could go on but you get the point. 

X

I didn't make fun of your spelling, although it is quite atrocious, along with your hatred.

Have a nice day you fake Persian.

B

The fighters in Iraq were mostly outsiders-Jordanians, Saudis, Egyptians, Syrians and Iranians.  The Saddam Fedayeen were ineffective and easily dealt with.  Ask an Iraqi if they want to go back to the days of nerve gas and rape rooms under Hussein.  Ask an Afghan if they'd rather have their daughters educated and their women allowed to leave the house without wearing a burlap sack over their entire body, or would they rather have a bunch of Talliban thugs throw acid in the faces of the girls and women. 

Nobody is going to bother with invading Iran.  Although those nuclear bomb factories could cause a problem for you....

You're going to have to overthrow your own thugocracy.

MasoudA

Which line is that?  It does not surprise me given that the founding fathers were classically educated.  They were also influenced heavily by The Enlightenment, particularly Jefferson.  Like the people on this site they held strong views, fought incessantly and often underhandedly while people continued to stream into the country looking for the freedom to work towards a better life.  I always have thought that what the US has given the world is the result of the ferocious airing of ideas while at the same time continually reinvigorating its culture through immigration.  

"So you're saying the US

"So you're saying the US should have invaded the ENTIRE ME"

US has already invaded much of the ME, but not so violently as in Iraq and Afghanistan, but by installing poppet governments here and there. However the point about "Iraq liberation" was that it is just bogus idea, but apparently some for self-feeling-good reasons try to convince themselves of with that.

"If it's the US, I already have"

Good for you, that is what ever patriot should do. And as such you can hardly blame the Iraqis to take arm to defend against the US occupation of their land?

Lastly, Iranians are quite aware that they are on their own in defending their land… they defended their home land when Saddam invaded it, and will defend it again if other aggressors try to invad it.

Mehrdad

LOL

Look who is making fun of my spelling when he/she could not even get a sentence right. "lame and ill informed propaganda"? what kinda crap is that? You are no real american.

Unlike me? LOL there you go using your psychic abilities. You are so funny.

I am as much a pessant as you are a racist a hole:)

have a nice freaking friday. you fake american.

X....

No you peasant.  66 out of 1,000,000 does not constitute a crisis.  I'm stubborn because I'm not going to allow some Iranian Regime agent to try to change my mind against my country with his lame and ill informed propaganda.  Uncle Sam Loves me-Hip Hip Hooray!  Congratulations on spelling "Xenopohopic".  That's a big Greek word for such a little Persian lad.  Sorry, no twitching, no turning and no exploding.  The only exploding is from Palestinian suicide bombs.

If I've said it once, I'll say it again:  Come in through the front door.  Sign the guestbook.  Leave when your visit is up.  We won't treat you like the hikers that were kidnapped by the Iranian govt. 

I was not filthy.  I showered and shaved yesterday, unlike you.

Shalom

B...

So you're saying the US should have invaded the ENTIRE ME?  That's new and different.  Or do you just want the US to not be involved at all, so the Persians can take it over?

Take up arms to defend what country?  If it's the US, I already have.  If it's Iran, sorry pal, you're on your own.

Spikeyy

I am a coward? on what basis? I never even had this discussion with you, Why do you insist on being Stubborn and a meat - head? You Just want to Be filthy tonight don't you? Too much obama there for you? Or not enough maybe? You have defined coward, you are the embodiment of coward, coward would not even have been a word had you not been born. You get that?

 66 out of 1,000,000 not big enough to qualify as a crisis For your highness? Oh my. Uncle sam must definitely be proud to have loyalists such as yourself. No amount of casualties are good enough for you to be charactrized as crime, since you can always place them in a copmarative context in relation to other more severe crimes. To our future attorney general ladies and gentlemen, Hip! hip! Horray. I guess the likes of you will tell Ashcroft what it is all about and teach them ha?

They could have died on their own beds now couldn't they? Goodie good. Your Xenophobic tendencies and urges are starting to come out little by little now, LOL. It was bound to happen at some point. You were just itching to let them out, You tossed and turned and twitched and then BOOOM. You burst at the seams.

spike:

I see you are really sold on "Iraqi liberation" that have been fed to us in the US by the groups that pushed for the war.

The liberation of Iraqis would have hold much more water had the US not get in bed with Saddam and pump him with much weapon and support when he was in the act of war crimes and killing civilians. Or alternatively, had US moved a finger, be it the pinky, towards the other dictatorial regime in the neighborhood (i.e. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait) which incidentally SA has been the country that has funded and providing the ideology for those who have attacked us. Or our government would once in a while (just once in a while) condemn Israeli war crimes and treatment of Palestinians when all other countries in the world would do that. Then one could possibly believe such rhetoric.

You see, this is the amnesia that many of us in this country are suffering from. We boggles me is that most of us do not trust our own government more then 2 cents worth when it comes to internal issues and we want as little of it as possible. Yet, when they tells about all the deeds outside of our home land, then we believe their words despite the overwhelming evidence against it.

Mehrdad

P.S. I did not hear from you regarding the questions I put to you, like if you would take arms to defend this country if it was occupied by a foreign army

X

I refuse to get worked up and condemn the United States over 66 out of 1,000,000 illegal aliens who died in jail.  If they hadn't entered the country illegally, they could have died in their own beds instead of a US jail.  .0066% does not constitute a humanitarian crisis.

And I'm glad you're not going to touch my junk.

I'm sober as an Imam.  Like I said.  You're a coward.

What the hell?

Donkey? Hmm. Are you sure?

No. you are the damn fool if you think otherwise. You are the one who would be in denial. there is evidence for it and has been documented to the point that no one can deny. 

Putting an illegal Immigrant does not "give:" him or her heart attack automatically, but lack of good and decent health care and medical attention will get them there eventually. Oh, Darn. Don't tell me you even see that as them robbing us out of our resources or something!

The rest of Your Junk will be left unanswered since i know you must have been drunk when writing it. I never even got into a ME discussion with you.  

Wake up buddy., the happy our is over, Time to get up,

ee 

ee 

Amergin

have you ever wondered what USA has given the world?   Think about Colonialism and Royalism of 200 years ago vs. now - think about all aspects of it.   Read the US declaration of independence again and if you are Iranian, be especially proud because the most important line in that document came from our Persian culture.   Also - be proud of the Americans for having done something that us Iranians are still struggling with - getting rid of the British control of our government !!!

Amergin...

Who mentioned secret societies?  I personally am not much of a "joiner", but to each his own.  You're right about real estate ownership and taxation.  The whole concept of freedom in this country is rooted in the ability to own the fruits of your labor in the form of real estate or other property.  To the extent that government taxes me for the support of someone else against my will, I am enslaved.

Spike, What should we teach the immigrants?

I always thought the US was founded mostly by people seeking real estate ownership and relief from excessive taxation from the British.

Both the Jews and the Irish were precluded from land ownership in their prior countries.  I actually like those motivations.  On the other hand, motivations like "the greater good", religion and ability to form secret societies seems like the wrong motivations.

Thanks Masoud...

I agree.  We need to spend time not only with new immigrants, but our own students, teaching them what it is that has made this a great country.  Too many people are showing up looking only for economic opportunities and that's it.  They don't necessarily want to pitch in for the greater good.

I'll look for the  Cyropaedia, if there's an English language version in print somewhere.

Well Dr X....

...Dariush was claiming that US authorities were murdering and beating illegal immigrants.  Kind of like the Iranian govt beats and murders opposition protesters. He was lying. And you're a damn fool if you think that putting an illegal alien in jail all of a sudden gives him heart disease or tuberculosis or whatever.

The fact that you can't admit that the world is a better place without Hussein and his sons in it, just goes to show how little intestinal fortitude you have.  Nobody in the ME or Europe was really willing to do any of the heavy lifting, but when we did it, oh well, that was just the worst thing ever.  And by the way, I've been one of the people out on the pointy end of the spear of US foreign policy.  I know about people fighting and dying first hand. Just admit your cowardice and laziness about actually helping people who are oppressed.

Donkey

Yes Viledmose....

....and Jesus was JEWISH too!  Btw, weren't you in "Harry Potter"?

Dear Spike

Good to have you here - where you are from makes no difference on issues discussed here.   As you can see here - Iranian Americans are more focused on the "Opportunities America Offers" without knowing a lot about why America can afford to offer immigrants the opportunities it does.    For the most part the fall prey into the old Democrat Party line of: Conservatives and Republicans are all about the rights for the wealthy Americans and here come the Democrats to the rescue of the poor.....  I personally think Uncle Sam needs to pay a lot more attention to first generation immigrants and educate them on the events of 1774-1778.   As I said - everyone comes here for the opportunities, hardly knowing what caused this country to be what it is and why.  

BTW - two books were circulated amongst the founding fathers - thank god one of them was Cyropaedia by the Greek historian Xenephon about the life of Cyrus the Great (//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyropaedia - the book belonged to Thomas Jefferson and is in the Library of Congress today.  Read about it in the link.   The other book was the Prince by Machiavelli.  I have yet

Spike: Are you Christian?

Spike: Are you Christian? If you are, do you think White Americans are favored by God, and Jesus his son over brown Mexicans or Iranians when we face him on the other side??

You do know that Jesus was a Brown Middle Eastern man?? Do you??

Dariush

I agree with you. Observe how warmongering and bullying attitude oozes through this man's comments.

Pure rubbish

Spike

You show your respect for the human race in so many unique and elegant ways. First comparing the number of US casualties by that of crime victims in california and considering it rather negligible and now this. The claim is not that they are being murdered, rather the objection is to rather inhumane detention conditions they are subjected to and the fact that they are severly mistreated and this Not Just about the ones who committed crimes.

You sink so low by mocking them when you say well, they should have paid a visit to their local ER on Taxpayers dime. So damn low. And you know darn well that not many of them were sick before being arrested or checking in to the Detention center.

Dariush

Wow Brainiac.  You really got me there.  Not.  Out of 1,000,000 illegal aliens detained, 66 died in custody, and the articles you site make no claim that they were murdered by authorities.  They died of illnesses they already had and suicides.  Maybe they should have gone to a US hospital emergency room so they could get expensive care paid for by the US taxpayer. Nice try.

As for accusing Dick Cheney of murdering Hariri, produce the goods.  The UN did an exhaustive investigation of of his assassination, and guess what?  It was the Syrians, acting at the behest of their evil Islamic Republic masters.  I think the Syrians need an ass kicking, but they're not worth the effort. The stupid eye doctor that's running that place will run it into the ground all by himself.  I say let them be and just keep sucking money from the Iranian teet-Less resources for the nuclear bomb program.