NUTS

Doctor X

Doc, that was a Joke.  I thought you will get that.

You all accuse me of being an IRI apologist and it is funny that now you are being called the same.  That is why I welcomed you to the club.  There must be some confusions amongst the oppositions.  Thanks God you are not armed.  I must thank spike for that.

Poor, angry Dr X....

....take a deep breath.  Exhale.  Repeat 2 or 3 times.  I don't claim to have encyclopedic knowledge of Iran.  But I have lots of knowledge about the US.  While illegal aliens contribute cheap labor, that's it.  They don't pay taxes.  They increase crime.  They use up social services.  Have you spent any time in a big city hospital emergency room?  You hear a lot of Spanish and a little English and most of the Spanish speakers aren't paying for their care.  We pay for them in a lot of other ways.  They also depress wages. A lot of American minorities can't find decently paying jobs, because illegal aliens are doing them for way below minimum wage.  I apologize that I missed your point.  I guess I had a hard time with your English diction.  That's not meant as an insult, because your English is light years ahead of my Farsi.  You just seem so angry. You should go to a Tea Party event.  I think you'll be surprised at how friendly the people are, and how welcomed you would be.  No anger, just happy warriors who love their country.  Nothing more.  

spike

You wrote,

How is it a good thing to set up a social welfare state that is running a current national debt of $13 trillion, with unfunded Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid liabilities of $138 trillion?  Why is it good policy to create a government that is so big it looks into and dictates every aspect of your life?  How is this crap gonna get paid for?

That is the cost of cleaning the mess Bush created. Below are some statistics on the 1.4 trillion increase in 2009. As I read the deficit in Bush era increased from $10 trillion to $14.4  and prior to that it has been increasing almost every year.

The total deficit for fiscal year 2009 was $1.42 trillion, a $960 billion increase from the 2008 deficit.

The changes account for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (”overseas military contingencies”) in the budget rather than through the use of “emergency” supplemental spending bills, assume the Alternative Minimum Tax will be indexed for inflation, account for the full costs of Medicare reimbursements, and anticipate the inevitable expenditures for natural disaster relief. [2]

The deficit is forecast to decline to $1.17 trillion in 2010 and $533 billion by 2013.[3]

The 2009 deficit includes the cost of the Troubled Asset Relief Program ($154 billion in 2009),[4] the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 ($202 billion in 2009, $353 billion in 2010, and $232 billion in 2011 forward[5]), and the 2009 Omnibus spending bill ($410 billion)—and changes due to President Obama's policy proposals.

So, had it not been for wishful calculations of useless wars, there wouldn't be no war expenses and its negative effects on the economy and therefore, no deficit increase.  That is how they could have paid for health care. That shows social welfare is not the problem, if it was, Germany and some other European countries would have collapsed long time ago and not growing, instead. 

One doesn't have to be an economist to figure this out.

Bavafa

I hated the bailouts.  If we hadn't bailed out the banks and car companies and Fannie & Freddie and God knows what else, we would have had a short sharp recession, and would already be well on our way to a rapid recovery.  I detest Henry Paulson.  More of our politicians need to go back and read Adam Smith and Joseph Shumpeter.  There was a great article by Matt Taibi in Roling Stone, titled "The Great American Bubble Machine"  at the risk of making you hate Jews even more than you probably already do, it's worth reading.  I think  Bush made a big mistake with the bailouts. In terms of the cost of Iraq, in dollars, it wasn't all that expensive-about 1% of GDP.  In terms of lives, it was tragic that we lost even one soldier or Marine.  An old friend of mine was killed at Fallujah.  But in terms of #'s of casualties, it hasn't been that bad.  More people are murdered in California in one year than we lost in 7 years in Iraq.  And yes, I would rather have my SS in the market than in a government "lockbox" that won't be there when I (hopefully) am able to retire in 20 years.  The system is going to be broke in 10 years.  I have been paying in since I was 12.  If I was able to invest that money myself over the last 30 odd years, I would be much better off, even with the current economy.  The way things are going now, I may never be able to retire.  Oh, and BTW, the repeal of the Glass-Steagel Act was done during the Clinton administration with a Dem Congress.

The Iranian Tea baggers (more like Carpet baggers)

Spike;

Aren't you just one of those jumpy ones? you were just waiting to just jump and grab me by the neck didn't you? You think you know the economy and the politics of this country so damn well, that your pride did not even allow you to think and take your god damn time for a minute and not let out (like a gooz) the term IRG appologizer and america - hater. With all the ecyclopedish qualities and knowledge that you carry on and with all that knowledge, You missed the point that i was trying to make. This country IS and has always been the most receptive when it came to immigrants, But that did not happen at the cost and risk of these immigrants damaging or ruinning anything, and it was always the opposite and even now that there are illegals all over the place , their contribution to the economy, the BIG ONE, is that they keep the cost of labor so down that you and I can enjoy a restautant meal without losing the shirt off our backs and so on and so forth in whatever industry they are involved and employed in, Now tell me, Where in that do you see AMerica-hating and IRG-peddling?

Dariush A:  Oh yeah. How could i not listen to you ever? Damn. can you ever see it in you to forgive me or is your changing names and avatars keep you so busy, you won't have time for it?

Masoud A:

If leaving parties aside and getting into the nuts and bolts of issues really on top of your agenda then how do you justify your hate and why are you so ardently against being a democrat? The fact that youissue a warning and says so much about the fact that you do not know what you are talking about and denotes your total ignorance.

You have taken it upon yourself out of sheer ignorance to call me and others! an appologist without even knowing me and just based on reading some stuff here and there on IC. wow, That goes to show me the depth you are willing to go to really know and research someone's background before the make a comment about them.

I never claimed that could make any society function and operate any better without the help and cooperation from those who may not see eye to eye with me on issues. Any idiot should know that Right? Anyone should know that by now we need everyone to contribute in order for us to rebuild iran and make things better. No one needs to hear your bashing and hating to be convinced of that fact. The real danger however is when you Go up that manbar and start preaching that You know better and These people are mad because Someone Esstol their Revoloossion! and so their out for revenge. That is the big nonsense and something that can plunge us right back into the hole.

The risk and The real danger is that you begin to redicule even the remote chance of pushing for fairness and are not even willing to talk about it and dimiss it off hand and start stratifying and classifying iranians, and assume that everyone is just so hot and crazy about china and russsia and communism. THAT IS SOMETHING . A kinda OF Mentality we need to get rid Of.

Well, for now, Those who implemented the doctrines of Capitalism and KHordand and Bordand by a bunch, are getting the behinds waxed At a beach in South of France. Leaving you to do their dirty works for them LOL. Good job massoud. You will be rewarded aplenty. LOOL.

entertain the public

Dems &  Reps are basically the sons of this Republic they just have different views on how to rob (oops) run the country and at the end they both go to the same bank laughing at us.

Maziar

masouda, i usually don’t

masouda, i usually don’t agree with you but i find myself in agreement with most of what you have to say.  what i don’t agree with, other than the blatant generalizations that you use, is your misuse of the concept of “equity” or “fairness.”  what i think is fair, you, or dr x, or mr z may not think is fair.  there’s a spectrum of equity or fairness and each one of us are somewhere in that range (on each issue).   for example, i give a dollar to every beggar that asks for money (unless they threaten me:).  but some give more, less or none.  some may even give the beggar a lecture.  neither one of these people are wrong or right, they merely exercise their sense of fairness with dollar votes (or lack of).

it’s a common belief (not necessarily true) that the democrats have more tendency to give more of their wealth to the less fortunate (e.g., more gov’t programs).  and the republicans have less tendency to do so (e.g. smaller gov’t through cuts).  that’s why republicans identify themselves with less taxes because if you assume that if the gov’t’s revenue (taxes) equals to its expenses (programs), then if programs are cut, less taxes have to be collected.  therefore, roughly, your first #1 point would be correct if you replace “democrats” with “republicans.”

your first #2 if rephrased “republicans, on average, are wealthier and more hawkish” may or may not be true.  to be hawkish, one needs to consider the expense of having a war and how to finance it: collect more taxes (for the additional program) (negative, -) or borrow and have a deficit (-).  however, one can simultaneously vitalize the military-industry firms (+ ).  on this point (wealthier, more hawkish), i need to more evidence and i don’t feel comfortable pulling numbers out of my arse.
i agree with your #3 if rephrased: “in general, republicans are more religious than democrats.”  even the old catholic democrats have become more conservative and voting republican.  for the most part, i also agree with your second #1 and #2. 

your epilogue was a bit of a mess with imperialism, Louis farakhan, zero ability, russia, china, iranian revolution and ...  i think it’s fair game when one tries to argue his/her sense of fairness to another to change minds, both ways.  i’m neither a democrat nor a conservative and i think the extremes of both parties are caricatures: the flag-waving insensitive teabaggers on one side, and the complaining nader raiders on the other.  but i think i would feel more comfortable drinking a beer with the nader raider crowd than be the iranian in the tea party group.  even if glen beck and sarah palin can see iran from the steps of lincoln memorial. :)

spike:

As I said earlier I have no defense for D's as they are spineless but lets see

Who inherent one of the most prosperous economy in the recent history and turned it to a near depression

who pushed the country to Iraq? What was the cost of that to the country in terms of lives lost and $$$$, not to mention the country standing in the world?

Who deregulated banks to make loans that we all have seen the result of?

Who bailed out the filthy, incompetent rich bankers and why?

And you think if we had turned SS or at least part of it to wall street, our folks would have been better off? That was the reform that was promised, wasn't it?

Mehrdad

Harpi-Eagle...

...I think that you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.  I don't know how plugged in you are to the domestic policy and tax policy scene here, as well as the insane Obamacare deal, but it's worse than anything Carter did.

Dariush, please explain to me...

....If it was bad for Bush to have a deficit, how is it a good thing for Obama and the D's to triple it in size?  How is it a good thing to set up a social welfare state that is running a current national debt of $13 trillion, with unfunded Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid liabilities of $138 trillion?  Why is it good policy to create a government that is so big it looks into and dictates every aspect of your life?  How is this crap gonna get paid for?  I wasn't happy with Bush's expansion of government and his unwillingness to enforce the southern border.  It made me angry actually.  Obama's engaging in wishful thinking.  Don't forget, when Obama was a Senator, he was one of the biggest earmark spenders in Congress.  He was knee deep in this mess.  He didn't decend from the clouds like some sort of divine savior, although he wants us all to believe that he is some sort of "Black Jesus"

Bavafa

I know that Fannie and Freddie would have been reformed, possibly even broken up and sold off.  Social Security would have been reformed so that it was no longer a massive transfer of wealth from young workers to retirees.  I know that Congress would not have been able to pressure banks, through regulatory pressure and ACORN, to make bad loans that they knew would never be repaid.  As far as the war, The D's lined up with everyone else on Iraq.  They just lost their nerve when the fight got a little tough and then became the anti war party when it was convenient.  And now they're exhibiting their cowardice on Afghanistan.

spike

Here is Obama's respond to your comments,

"They're betting that between now and November, you'll come down with a case of amnesia. They think you'll forget what their agenda did to this country," Obama said. "They think you'll just believe that they've changed. These are the folks whose policies helped devastate our middle class and drive our economy into a ditch. And now they're asking you for the keys back."

Sounds familiar to you?

Spike, I disagree ...

Obama is certainly not the most effective president of the U.S. in modern history, his presidency, at least for the first 3 years will be a relatively un-eventful period, in other words, more of the same.  But to even consider putting him in the same league as Jimmy Carter or GW Bush, is totoally unfair.  In my opinion people like Jimmy Carter, Cyrus Vance, GW, Dick Cheney, and Henry Paulson should be put on trial for treason to their nation as well as to the rest of humanity.

Payandeh Iran, our Ahuraie Fatherland

spike:

So are you contending that we have all the financial and war issue due to the fact that R's & GWB did not had filibuster majority in the senate?

What sort of laws did not pass due to filibuster by D's that would have set the country on the more peaceful and prosperous path, you suggest?

Mehrdad

MasoudA-you're spot on....

...especially when it comes to "fair".  There's and old saying in American Law, as well as business-"fair is where you go to eat corndogs and cotton candy".  At the end of the day, all you can do is treat people equitably and let the chips fall where they may.  There will always be winners and losers in life.  All you can do is help the helpless and don't worry about the clueless.

Harpi-Eagle...you're right, but....

....Obama's doing his best to take the title "Worst President Ever" from Carter.  And he will probably succeed.

The Problem is...

Most Iranians who tend to side with the Democrat Party here in America - do it because they think:

1- Democrats will give them a better chance to get rich. 

2- Republicans are a bunch of wealthy war mongers.

3- Republicans are hard core christians. 

For you fellows I have the following words:

1- Leave the two parties aside - because when elected officials from either party reach Washington - they get a total overhaul by the establishment and the creeping lobby groups.

2- Try to identify yourself in terms of Liberal or Conservative and not by the two parties.  Get into the details of all social and economical issues in America and see where you stand.   Let me warn you in advance - most of us Iranians are more Conservative than we are liberals.  

Also - People like Dr.X and other IR apologists (Darius - I don't think you know what IR apologist is) are exceptions - because they have no regard for issues - in their minds they are just out to defeat US Imperialism!!  They have already managed to destroy Iran and claim the revolution was stolen from them!!  They are in the process of bringing about another revolution, and only god knows who will steal this one away from them!!  Al Sharpton? Luis Farakhan?   God only knows - but one thing is for certain.  People like Dr. X have Zero ability to make any society better.   They just push the doctorine of "change" and "fairness" upon masses - and dream about a new and fair society in which they will be the implementors of "Fairness" values.   Just like Communist Russsia, China and other socialist countries of-course, the implementors would be the only people who would end-up enjoying a decent life in their dream communities . 

Best Wishes

Doctor X

There you go Doc, Now you are an IRG apologist. I kept telling you that, but you wouldn't accept it. You had too hear it from spike. Are you happy now? welcome to the club.

George Bush was NOT the worst President ...

It was Jimmy Carter by a long shot.  Anybody remember the 18-21% mortgage rates?  How about his ultimate masterpiece, the 1979 installation of the Mullah, Khomeini? 

Payandeh Iran, our Ahuraie Fatherland

Doctor X

What's your point, besides that you are an America hating IRG apologist?

Spike

Really?

Well, here is a tiny refreshere there my american friend:

No other country in the world is as tolerant and accomodating of immigrants, to the point of damaging our own country and economy, as the US. 

So, Who did this to you and does anyone need to kiss it to make it better?

Bavafa, I've missed you....

....actually you've overlooked one crucial detail.  The R's never had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.  In the current political environment, you pretty much have to have that in order to get anything done.  Witness Bush's inability to get any of his appointees confirmed.  The same thing holds true on legislation and any kind of reform.

Doctor X:  I'm not sure I understand your question.

spike:

"There are 535 other people who vote one way or another, usually based upon what they think will get them reelected"

I guess you forgot a little detail here, almost all of those infamous eight years, the house and senate was also controlled by the R's

Now I am not saying that D's are any better, in fact if it wasn't for the little tag they wear, I could not tell apart which is which. But I can certainly differentiate the eight years of GWB from any other time in the history of this nation, this is as much as I want to erase it from my memory but all his f*&kups keep reminding me of it and make the erasing a much harder task.

Mehrdad

Spikes

who damaged your country's economy and what pace, while it was being one of the most accomodating culture towards immigrants?

So what?

The US also supported Iran.The US support's Saudi Arabia,a total enemy.If they attacked us,we would attack them.Who would care what friend's we were before?

Dariush: it wasn't just Bush

Your fooling yourself if you think that Bush was some sort of all powerful Oz or something.  If he was, social security would have been reformed.  Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would have been reformed and we might not have had the housing and lending crash.  There are 535 other people who vote one way or another, usually based upon what they think will get them reelected.  You want to see what went wrong?  Ask yourself why Barney Frank blocked Fannie and Freddie reform in the House banking committee.  Because he was sleeping with the guy that was designing the mortgage backed derivatives that ultimately wrecked the economy.  Ever heard of the "friends of Angelo"?  Chris Dodd anybody?  I'm not saying that things will be peaches and cream if the R's win in November, but I think it will be the beginning of turning this aircraft carrier around.  It's a really simple thing-keep taxes low, keep security high and keep the govt out of the way and off people's backs.  I noticed you didn't bother to answer any of my other comments.  I guess that means that you agree?

Great writing

Thank you for making so much sense and putting it so nicely in words. I must say I was pleasantly surprised to see you criticize US foreign policies, Bush's wars and that little jab at Cheney :) 

IRANdokht

spike

you wrote,

I'm not happy with the way things are going and I think that they're going to change in a big way in November.  Sometimes you have to let the great mass of American voters run into a wall before they realize that things need to change.  I believe we've hit that wall.

Are you saying that the republicans will take over and everything will be alright?  Have you forgotten what happened in Bush era? The mess you see today is the extension of Bush policies and is nothing compare to what republicans did.  Same old games, right?

Bahmani I'm not even sure where to start

Frankly, I'm having a hard time understanding your point, except to say that you don't like conservatives because we have beer bellies and speak with a certain "twang".  Then you say that you are a white caucasian who is conservative, even as you bash conservatives.  As a confident American conservative, I do not fear people of other cultures.  I welcome them as long as they come through the front door, sign the guest book and join in the heavy lifting of keeping this a great country. They need to buy in to the American Dream.  They should not expect everyone else to turn themselves inside out to accomodate them.  I would not move to another country and expect everyone there to to learn English and change their signage and labeling and phone systems in order to make things easier for me.  It's rude and defies common sense.  No other country in the world is as tolerant and accomodating of immigrants, to the point of damaging our own country and economy, as the US.  I travel extensively, and yes, I'm even trying to learn Farsi (mind bending experience that it is).  I'm not happy with the way things are going and I think that they're going to change in a big way in November.  Sometimes you have to let the great mass of American voters run into a wall before they realize that things need to change.  I believe we've hit that wall.

Escape

Iran was against both Saddam and Al Qaeda and it was US who Supported both of them.  You don't even know that much.   How old are you? You sound like a little girl.

Goodbye and Good Luck.