Ali_UK

ali_uk this is the civil flag of your country

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lionflag.svg

you notice there are no crowns. lion and the flag again is a national symbol.

Mr. Fozolie

ali_uk baba joon where have you been?

As Manouchehr pointed out they made the change years ago. The Lion and the Sun is a national symbol and has been for centuries regardless of Pahlavi, this or that.... Go and see some Government documents of the old, you will see it on all certifcates and national documents. Changing the national symbol of Iran was an idiotic act by the Isalmists, they removed all the Imperial emblems and flags, why change our national symbol?

Why are Iranians so uneducated about their own country?

Mr. Fozolie

FYI/The Republic of Poland Has adopted the Royal Flag

Just to say that Poland which got rid of the Communist Regime and established a Republic nevertheless adopted the Flag Prior to communism which has an Eagle with a Royal Crown. And Yet Poland is Not a Monarchy today.

During the Communist era there were three variant flags of Poland: a plain bicolor (used on land), a bicolor with a shield (without a crown, used as a civil and state ensign), and a swallow-tailed bicolor with a shield (again with no crown, used as a naval ensign). In 1990 , the crowns have been added to both ensigns, and the bicolor with the shield has extended its usage also to land, as a state (and probably also war) flag. Jan Zrzavy, 14 August 1997

More Here

ali_UK In that case why didn't you say so in the first place ?

Instead of expressing yourself in such an ambiguous way about a Coalition ? ...

Don't Feel Obliged to Answer to this LONG thread ...

But Let me add that all this debate over the Iranian Flag is totally a hypocritical stance on behalf of some in the Iranian Diaspora and here is why.

There are Only two situations in which this debate is relevant.

Either we consider :

1) Current Islamic Flag is the Legitimate Flag of Iran ( as acknowledged by the International Community since 1979) and therefore consider the current regime of Iran representative of the Iranian People and therefore believe that we should brandish it as such during  public demonstrations as Soccer Matches, Political Rallies or Celebrations like Now Rooz.

Or

2) Or We Don't 

In which case we are led to ask ourselves the following questions:

Which is the Flag we consider as being the Iranian Flag Today ? Is it the one prior to the Revolution or is it One we need to redefine ?

If it is the one Prior to the Revolution, then if can Only be that of a Monarchy for we never had a Republic prior to the Revolution. So No One can claim in all honesty that the Shiro Khorsheed is Republican Flag, or the Flag of any given political party because Iran was Never a Republic before and that throughout our history for better or worse Iranian national identity was confounded with the Monarchy regardless of which ruling dynasty. So  the flag that floated during ceremonies or public events or on the city halls of Iran with or Without the Pahlavi or Qajar Crown was that of the Iranian Regime Prior to the Revolution and that is : A Monarchy.

So therefore the National Front of Dr. Mossadegh was also taking Oath on an Item that represented the Country's Unity since the dawn of Time ( even if the flag changed from one dynasty to another). Therefore it was not the Flag of a Party ( that is the National Front) but that of the Country. Now Had Mossadegh Abolished the Monarchy and Ruled as President of an Iranian Republic ( Democratic or Not) even for a short term things would indeed be different but He was not elected as President but Prime Minister of the Shah.

So this brings us to the following dillema: If we do not consider the Shiro Khorsheed Flag as the Flag of Iran, then we need to redefine it and some have suggested to simply have the three colors and no Sun and Lion emblem to ornate it. Something like the Italian Flag but sideways ...

Why Not ? I don't like that idea personally and I would think nor would the members of the National Front of Dr. Mossadegh but It would simply make the Flag issue Politically Neutral.

However those who claim that the GREEN CAMPAIGN COLOUR of these elections has earned the right to substitute itself to the Iranian Tricolor Flag (present or former) only because people died as a result of the regime's violent response are simply being pretentious. Why May you Ask ? Because amongst the victimes were people who had NOT voted and therefore were not supporters of the candidate Moussavi in these fraudulous elections. Neda the now emblematic martyre of this "Green Revolution" did not even Vote.

Nor was the Green Vote and therefore colour in itself an endorsement of Moussavi the candidate But of Moussavi the "Selected Choice" amongst a "Selected number" of candidates imposed on the people within a dictatorial regime.

As such this dismisses the False debate that the Green Flag brandished during the Election Campaign is now the Legitimate Iranian Flag ...

In that case we should dismiss all the people in the history of Iran who have died one way or another in its long 25 century old history as a nation.

So when I see such behaviors as this :

Please watch this clip

On behalf of Iranians often very young who are ready to tear down the Sun and Lion Flag (which was respected by Iranians across the political spectrum including During the Islamic Revolution by revolutionaries such as the Forouhars and Sanjabi and members of the National Front ( including Shahpour Bakhtiar  who favored a Constitutional Monarchy) who favored a Republic ( however not secular) over the crumbling monarchy) which they falsly think insults the memory of those who died in the tragic events recently, I am tempted to Really Kick them in the Behind for their lack of tolerance and more importantly IGNORANCE of both their history and identity.

That is why I find that the Flag Debate is Another Immature attempt to confuse Iranians on their Identity and also on the reality of the revolt in Iran which is first and foremost about Democracy and Human and Individual Rights.

So when the MKO decides to brandish the Sun and Lion Flag they are the ones who are brandishing the Flag of the Previous Regime and therefore that of the Monarchy they helped bring down and NOT the Opposite !

So Why Should RP  be suspected of cutting deals with the MKO, when they themselves chose to use the Royal Flag as that of their movement and national identity ?

This is where I disagree with your assessment or that of other blogs in this regard which try to imply that Reza Pahlavi and the monarchists views have got closer to that of the MKO when at worst it is the contrary.

In which case I don't see why we should be expected to complain or worst apologize for the MKO members decision or their leaders behavior ? ...

Best,

DK

علی آقای انگلیسی؛

با سلام

شورای ملی مقاومت ایران طی جلسه ای درعراق در اواخر دهۀ هشتاد میلادی و یا اوایل دهۀ نود پرچم سه رنگ شیر وخورشید نشان بی تاج را به عنوان پرچم رسمی ایران تصویب کرد.  من تاریخ دقیقش را به خاطر ندارم، ولی مصوبه اش یک حقیقت است.

Unity

Iranians in diaspora have shown very little sign of any effective opposition movement in the past 30 years, nevermind unity!

forget about the flag thing.Forget about MKO ( because they are in the dustbin of history ).At least Mr. Pahlavi does not have a bad track track record ( he is not responsible for the crimes of his late father ).However with all due respect , I think , Mr. Pahlavi lacks credibility.

Lets hope a true leader will come out of the masses in Iran and lead this movement to its deserved conclusion which is a peaceful regime change ( I hope ).

So it doesn't matter what you and I say on this blog and what flag we stand under.

Tafragheh

This is a good example of a thread trying to divide us Iranians.

Shi o Khorshid Flag has nothing to do with Pahlavi or Monarchy.  This Flag is an umbrella under which all Iranians who oppose the mullah regime can stand together.

Divide?

1- I was NOT equating MKO with Reza Pahlavi , for exactly the reasons you so correctly listed ( did not need to go overboard with the history ! ). 

The only peolpe who need to be united are the ones living in Iran , and NOT you , I , Mr. Pahalvi , MKO , etc... 

Are you actually contradicting yourself?Talk about unity in one hand , and when I ask the question which actually questions the limit of this desired unity , eg MKO and Pahlavi?

ali_UK So Why do You insult RP's constituency ?

By suggesting a Coalition which does not exist ?

You are repeating the same nonesense as David ET:  

//iranian.com/main/blog/david-et/what-do-reza-maryam-have-common-bonus-video 

or even the IRI lobbyists like NIAC/AIC who want to purposely equate the monarchists and the MKO in their opposition to the IRI ...

Where did you see Iranian Monarchists burn themselves fanatically  for King and Country:

//www.cultsandterror.org/images/Self-burning-Cult-MKO-NCRI-NLA-MEK.jpg 

or even receive such an order from Reza Pahlavi or Shahbanou Farah to self sacrifice themselves for any cause ? ... 

I am judgmental because YOUR Blog is Judgmental at a time when what Iranians hope for most is UNITY amongst Iranians across the world and regardless of their political preferences against the IRI.

I am amazed by the number of similar blogs in the past week in this regard or the repeated attempts to point at the monarchists or anyone in the exiled Opposition as undermining the Green Movement or worse being responsible for the crack down. Do I need to refer to HATEIRI, or Irandokht or Reza Aslan and Trita Parsi's so TIMELY Article in this regard ? ...

You should know very well that the MKO has had this flag since the early 80's ever since they went against the IRI they helped install. Its not the first nor last of their numerous contradictions including having an elected president they want to impose as the legitimate President of Iran ( which they never quite explained if it will be an Islamic Democracy or a Secular Democracy ) who is the wife of the founder of this terrorist organization and who wears a "roosary" but gathers members who don't wear it and dress according to Western "Capitalist" norms.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvOYE20wP88&feature=related

Or Having Marzyeh ( a Product of the Pahlavi Era ) become a staunch member of this organization ( however without a Roosary) and organize a concert in Paris Olympia where nearly all the seats were occupied by MKO members.

At 82 Is MKO Diva Bidding Farewell to Political Activism or to Music Career? Comments French Media by DK

Other Pahlavi Era Music Stars like Vigen and Aref also became supporters of this treacherous movement but does that make the Armenian or Iranian Community also MKO Members for that Matter ? ... 

What Does that Have to do with Reza Pahlavi or the Monarchists if the MKO attempts to copy the Pre Revolution Iranian Flag for that Matter ? ...

I wonder how old you ? But if you are my age or if your parents have brought you up loving your homeland they should have explained to you that the Shiro Khorshid flag ( with or without the Pahlavi Crown) is considered as the Iranian Flag to which even Mohamed Mossadegh and the national Front have sworn allegience and consider as the National Flag of Iran.

The Islamic Republic Flag with its Arab Characters is the official Flag of Iran under this regime but has no place in the hearts and minds of anyone who claims to be a patriot particularly after the recent demonstrations and their bloody aftermath.

The Green Flag is at best a campaign Flag for one of the candidate's that is Mr. Moussavi ( which no one not even Reza Pahlavi has questioned his constituency nor insulted those who chose to vote for him in these fraudulous elections).

If you are commiting a Sin it is indeed the same as all the other bloggers who have been indulging in dividing the Iranian diaspora by perpetuating the type of confusion that ONLY serves the interests of the Islamic Republic in seeing Iranians in the Diaspora fight one another and dispatch their energy instead of focusing it towards a common goal and that is the support of the Iranian people in their struggle against the Islamic Republic's Highjacking of their vote and individual rights as citizens. 

Instead You want to draw parralels between two organizations which happen to be the only ones to call for Regime Change but which have no common values nor history.

By suggesting such a Coalition You are Insulting The Monarchist Constituency as well as anyone who supports Reza Pahlavi without necessarily being a monarchist for that matter.

Why Insult People Like Her who support Reza Pahlavi or the Monarchy ?

BOOK: EVEN AFTER ALL THIS TIME By Afschineh Latifi ( A Memoir )

When did We EVER Take Arms Against our Own People and country by Siding with Saddam Hussein like the MKO did ? ...

IF you think I am being judgmental ... well know that I feel As Much insulted when I read such comments as yours trying to equate the MKO and the Monarchists.

Ensaf Ham Khoub Cheezeyeh !  

Best,

DK

Darious

Why would I?Get off your judgemental seat and show a bit of courtsy.You do not even know me.

I was not aware of MY OWN SINS , and more weirdly , I was not aware that you were aware of MY SINS.

MKO sold out to our enemy at the time.They have a shameful history since they left Iran back in the 80's.

I am not a monarcist , and if Mr. Pahlavi wants to take part in a republic , secular movement , then ....

I asked the question , because of the history of MKO in the 70's and the fact that they have added a flag which is normally associated with monarcy.

One or the other

In the modern era, there have been two known, official flags of Iran:

One with that 'thing' in the middle of it, that was born when the IRI was founded.

The other has  the Lion and Sword that dates back centuries.

 Both are waved at times by many good people who love their country, and who are not necessarily supporters of the monarchy, the MKO or the IRI.

Pick one, or make up your own flag I guess.

ali_UK You'd Love That Wouldn't You ?

Just to Wash Away YOUR OWN Sins ...

pictory: MKO leaders meeting under Khomeiny's portrait (1978)

LOL