A suggestion for JJ

Bavafa
by Bavafa
27-Feb-2010
 

A few months ago or so, JJ tried to implement some new changes and rules in order to improve IC (i.e. one had to register in order to leave comments, etc) and not sure how much of an improvement that yielded.

Perhaps it maybe time for JJ to come to the rescue of IC once again. The way I see it, IC has become dominated by two camps, totally the opposite of each other and constantly trying to out do one another by any and all bogus type news or blog, presenting the hard right (Neo-con/AIPAC) or the even harder right (IRI)

IC has become a mirror reflection of politics in US, the hard core left and hard core right are dominating and those in the middle are left with little voice.

Anybody else feels this way or am I the only one?

Mehrdad

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Onlyiran

delete

by Onlyiran on

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Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

One big

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

part of debate is between those who put Iran first and those who don't. One group including me is focused on Iran. Another one is more worried about Palestine. The former is motivated by nationalism. The latter either by religion or god knows what. 

Now we can argue about this all we want. But there is no question that we have this division. The US does not. Most Americans are focused on their own plight. They argue about big vs small government. The interest in Israel vs Palestine is limited to a small but very powerful minority. Most others just want to be secure and have oil to heat their homes and gas to drive their cars. Otherwise they could not care less about foreign nations.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Left and Right

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on


IC has become a mirror reflection of politics in US, the hard core left and hard core right are dominating and those in the middle are left with little voice.

Not really. IC is more a reflection of Iranian politics. Most Americans don't know s*** about Iranian politics. The really educated ones know a little about Mossadegh and the coup or the Green movement.

Regarding right and left Iranian politics to not at all reflect US right and left. I do not believe in the one dimensional right vs left. As an example in US the debate is more about the role of government; regulation; and so on. Most Iranians even the "right" believe in an active government with things like nationalized health care and so on. So right vs left do not apply. In multi-dimensional politics there is no well defined middle as one person is in the middle of one thing and extreme of another.

The disagreements tend to be over support for IRI; minority rights and place of religion. 


Anahid Hojjati

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by Anahid Hojjati on

 

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amirkabear4u

BUT THEN

by amirkabear4u on

this is what democracy is all about. Those as you say in the middle should try harder to express them. My thought is there are a lot of them too. 

Fairness and Equality in Justice


MM

Do I smell a double-agent?

by MM on

and the truth comes out.

00BA or 00BS


bomannyali

As an IRI supporter, I am against Palestine

by bomannyali on

That is correct.  I pray for the day when Israel troops invade and take over the WEST BANK, and round up its people, and for a good measure dig under the Al Aqsa Mosque and demolition part of it.

There you have it.

Then I can sit back and watch as the Arab Street that never ever disappoints especially when Al Aqsa Mosque is harmed as they wipe out the rodents from north to south and from east to west. 

Oh, God, as your faithful servant I beg you to bring the day when we see the end of the rodents.

I know one thing for sure, GOD never disappoints IRI, he always comes to the aid.  When pressure mounts, somewhere else pops!  I love it!

 

bomannyali: Loved by God, humiliates his adversaries by their own confessions.

God: Allah, Rahbar:Khamenie, Commander : Hassan Abbasi


Fair

Just answer the question:

by Fair on

pro or anti WHAT?

If you defend the oppression of the Iranian people and falsely call it "law enforcement", then yes you are an apologist.

If you say AN is the legitimate president of Iran, then yes you are a sympathizer of AN.

So be specific.  Your trying to paint me or anybody in your desired color won't work.  The clearest painting you have done is of yourself.  A stateless terrorist.

NAJA?  Law enforcement?  NAJA goes in the streets, beats the cr*p out of people, the videos are all over the internet, you have seen the most recent one of them illegally entering Tehran university, beating and killing students.  Then they arrest girls and hand them over to those who rape them.  They stand behind and protect basijis, who are under the command of IRGC.  So that makes them murderers and rapists.  The absurdity is you repeatedly trying to claim otherwise.  Thank God for cell phone cameras and the internet, and you still lie in broad daylight.  

Next, your subsequent lie that the "bubble burst" in 22 Bahman.  A bubble bursts with a pin, not the most massive security crackdown in the history of the country.  The only bubble that exists here is the one you live in- one in which Iran is led by a legitimate government opposed only by subversives who have no right to complain.  And that is what I and many others here have called you on and will continue to call you on.

And you have the gall to continue to call those who refuse to accept your fascist filth "anti Iran".  Is there really one Iran as you claim?  If so I have news for you sir.  THE ONE AND ONLY IRAN IS THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.  Yes, whether you like it or not.  That is the only Iran, not your corrupt, illegal, murderous AN and Khamenei who hang on to power by sheer terror, or as you pathological liar call them, "law enforcement".

You brag about contributing "technical accuracy of detail" when in this very post of yours you have lied multiple times.   If you call these "contributions" what can I say.  But then what can one expect from one who calls murderers and rapists "law enforcement", and young innocent Iranians "subversive".  Don't disgust me anymore than you have already.  I don't need to call you any names, waffen SS major, your fascism reeks enough already.  Indeed, shame on you for standing against the people of Iran.

Now go on, keep making your self proclaimed "contribution". What a joke.

 

-Fair

 


MM

OK bavafa - I appologyze

by MM on

I take your word as is and assume that what you say is true, but you need to clean your image. 

But dude - I have nothing against Arabs, but the Palestinians have 350,000,000 Arabs' support, with some of the richest incomes in the world spread over 18 countries.  And, here we are only one nation struggling against the Islamist regime w/o any outside support, except from the Iranian Diaspora and you are filling it ALL with Palestinian/Jewish/Arab news and I have not seen anything about Sudan,....etc. 

Besides, there are plenty of sites you can contribute on the Palestinian/Israeli issues, and leave us to deal with our own problems.  As someone said; If you want Palestine, down the street, make a right turn at the Gaza strip.

You will also have more readership if you direct your blogs/news at the appropriate sites.  Not that I do not care about them, but in my limited time, I certainly do not read non-Iranian related stuff as many others here and all your efforts are wasted and your image is tainted.


Bavafa

MM: Just for your

by Bavafa on

MM: Just for your amusement, here are also a sample of my opinion/comments about IRI and I make the same challenge for you… if you find one comment or blog or news from me that is pro IRI/AN/Khomeini or the system itself and then I will apologies for that comment.

And since you ask as where I stand, I condemn and deplore all atrocities that are committed by any government whether is IRI against Iranian people or the Zionist regime against Palestinians, US against Iraqis or the Russians against Chechnya's or any where else. However, I don't subscribe to the notion that if one is critical of Israel therefore he/she is pro IRI or the other way around. . I also don't believe that IC should be related to only Iran and Iranians. In regards to IRI and Zionist, I believe both are two face of the same coin and just as despicable as the other.

But if you think comments such as you have cited and here again

"It would be utterly irresponsible for Iranians to sit idle in a neighborhood that the biggest bully armed with WMD and the latest weaponry keeps threatening Iranians."

is considered pro IRI, then you can consider me an IRI supporter.  My hate for IRI is not a cause to sish war and destructions for Iran and Iranians.

http://iranian.com/main/2009/dec/majid-tavakkoli

http://iranian.com/main/2010/feb/we-refuse-die

http://iranian.com/main/2009/nov/parvin-fahimi

http://iranian.com/main/2010/jan/state-opposition-strongpage1

Mehrdad

 


Anonymous Observer

I agree with Hovakh and MM & Fair Jaan - Good Response

by Anonymous Observer on

there is a gang of a handful of people (or may be fewer under various usernames) who seem to obsessed with Palestine.  I think that we have established that at least a couple of them are not Iranians.  The others want to post all this stuff about the Israeli / Palestinian conflict for two reasons.  The first is obviously to divert attention.  The second is to give the impression that Iran's fate in the ME is somehow related and intertwined with that of the Palestinians, and that Iranians should be sacrificed to the fullest so that the Israeli / Palestinian conflict is resolved.  Sometimes they do it under the guise of being a "humanist".  But when you ask them about atrocities committed elsewhere in the world, including places where the IRI supports the aggressor (Chechnya and Sudan) you never hear a peep out of them.  Not too long ago, I gave Mehrdad (Bavafa) a list of all recent conflicts and atrocities and asked his opinions on them since he was on that thread talking about the Palestinians (again) and was justifying it under the guise of "concerns for oppressed people".  I have yet to get an answer out of him...and don't expect one any time soon. :-)))  


Hovakhshatare

bavafa, what I said is extremely clear so your question

by Hovakhshatare on

is disingenuous.


MM

please tell us where you stand

by MM on

 

Here is why bavafa,

1. Below, you will find the headlines from your blogs and news bids.  As Hovakhshatare noted, they are the same non-Iranian related stuff (Palestinian, Arabs, Jews, Lieberman, ....) that folks like Iranianmilitary.com, Sargord Pirouz and the rest of the gang put out in Iranian.com to divert attention from the atrocities committed in Iran.

 2. Not a single blog/news headline on the atrocities in Iran and the political situation in Iran.

3. The same gang of people write favorably in your blogs/news bids, although there was one comment in which you said Iran will get rid of dictators (see, a couple of examples below).

So, if I am mistaken, please state where you stand, tell us why you stick with the non-Iranian-related stuff on a site called Iranian.com, and I am ready to appologyze.

-------------------------------------

blogs/News bids by bavafa

 

 

A suggestion for JJ Israel unveils new drone that can fly to Gulf Lieberman warns Assad: War will end your regime Dubai: We'll go after Netanyahu if Mossad killed Hamas man Palestinian graves found damaged after settlers visit What the Gaza war meant for Israel Removing Saddam was right, even without WMD - Blair Food labels advice change over Palestinian territories Spy chief faces questions on Iraq weapons intelligence EU: Jerusalem should be capital of two states The differences between a Polished Zionist and a crude one: Jerusalem artists go underground Lets support all Iranians and specially i.com and JJ financially Erdogan: It was 'people's will' that Israel be barred from drill UN urges Gaza war crime follow-up War zone learning Sanctioning Iran? Israelis flatten Palestinian home UN puts off action on Gaza report How to Put Pressure on Netanyahu Dilemma of Palestinian settlement builders Families evicted from their East Jerusalem homes after 50 years Gaza white flag deaths probe call Israeli troops 'ill-treat kids' Arrests at new Iranian protests Adveritsement on Iraniandotcom East Jerusalem / Israeli roulette East Jerusalem / Israeli roulette Kim Jong Il Visits Factory After Reports of Worsening Health Britain Revokes Licenses for Arms Exports to Israel Journey to Gaza Amnesty details Gaza 'war crimes' Gaza civilians 'killed by drones' Israel approves 50 settler homes Gaza residents 'live in despair' The End of the Beginning?

Israel 141st out of 144 in Global Peace Index

 

-------------------------------------------

Selected comments by bavafa and responses to bavafa

The latest instrument for state terrorism

by Bavafa on Sun Feb 21, 2010 01:07 PM PSTIt would be utterly irresponsible for Iranians to sit idle in a neighborhood that the biggest bully armed with WMD and the latest weaponry keeps threatening Iranians.

What a stinging reply!

by Q on Mon Nov 16, 2009 06:36 PM PSTThank You Bavafa, you're a gem!FredI guess with Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery,not in this case! There are exceptions to prove the rule.

 


Sargord Pirouz

Pro or anti what? You're not

by Sargord Pirouz on

Pro or anti what? You're not being serious. With you, it's "apologist" this, or "sympathizer" that. 

Fair: what lie have I committed? If I've been technically inaccurate somewhere, name it? Differences of perspective are not, in themselves, lies. To believe otherwise is, in itself, a lie.

Prove a fact in one of your posts that is wrong? How easy is that? Look at how you just described NAJA. You stated they are "murderers and rapists" and not "law enforcement." Fair, there are 60,000-plus officers that make up NAJA. There are not 60,000-plus murderers and rapists in NAJA. How could there be? It's absurdities such as these that fatally color the majority of your posts.

And every time I contribute a technical accuracy of detail, your response is always name calling, invectives and false accusations. There's no appreciation whatsoever for being better informed by it. It's as if you don't want to hear anything from anybody that is not staunchly anti-Iran. And Fair, whether you or I  like it or not, there is only one Iran in this world. Since the bubble burst of 22 Bahman, we know that this Iran isn't going away any time soon- again, whether either of us like it or not.

Contrary to your misguided perception, I'm not here to "convince" anybody. How can a person convince anyone with such a tightly wounded closed mind? What a wasted effort that would be.

And I remind you, Fair, I do read many Green blogs and web sites. I even contribute technical details and perspectives to some of these blogs, sometimes by direct request. I've also provided assistance to analysts, journalists, and not long ago I helped out with technical details for a documentary clip on the BBC. What contributions have you made?- aside from, in the course of binary argumentation, your many rants and shrills.


Fair

Bavafa

by Fair on

Implementing the fact checking is indeed not trivial.  But it is done for US presidential debates, there is factcheck.org for example.  Question is, who would be acceptable enought to all sides on this website.  Certain parties benefit from having a free forum in which to push their agenda without any accountability.  These are usually the parties who don't have a problem with shutting down the flow of information to people to "protect" them from "subsersive" thoughts.  In other words, the free flow of ideas that compete with their own is a danger to them, especially if it means their lies get exposed.

 

-Fair


Bavafa

Fair: I think I like your

by Bavafa on

Fair: I think I like your idea of having some sort of an accountability for the accuracy of the news one brings here, of course if some thing like that could realistically get implemented. The news tab use to be my favorite place to go till recently that has got bombarded with so much shady-at-best type news whether it is about Israel or the IRI.

MM: If you could help me understand how you came up to the conclusion that I am an "IRI sympathizer with hidden agenda" I would greatly appreciate it? Don't you think if there is censorship on this site, the very "IRI sympathizers" would be first to get affected? Didn't you read my comment that I am totally against censorship?

Hovakhshatare: I am not quite following what my comments about "Gaza/Palestine/Israel" has to do with this blog. Are you suggesting that we should limit topics of discussion?

Mehrdad


Fair

Be specific

by Fair on

pro or anti what? 

and no one is more binary than you, going through great lengths and lying in broad daylight to protect you fascist system and their death squads.

Definitely one thing I am "anti" is lies, which you spew out here like there is no tomorrow, and even keep repeating them despite being called on it over and over again.  Look who is saying disingenuous.  I still believe in a fact checking system, where lies would be caught and penalized.  Do you?

So be specific and I will tell you my stance on it.   And stick to the facts (as you just bragged about doing.  what happened?).  

Like I said before waffen SS major, take any of my posts, prove a fact in it wrong, and I will gladly stand corrected having learned something.  But you never do that, instead you call murderers "legitimate", rapists "law enforcement",   and innocent brave unarmed peaceful Iranian youth victims as "subversives".  What name should you be called?  Any name is too mild for liars like yourself.

But what can I say, you are just doing your job. And a crappy one I might add, judging by the number of people you have convinced here or any other website.

Keep up the "good" work :)

 

-FAIR

 

 

 


MM

I agree with Hovakhshatare 100%

by MM on

The kinds of blogs/news bids bavafa has put out suggets that he is an IRI sympathizer and his hidden agenda is to push the site towards censorship and an eventual take-over by IRI agents.

I think I will leave IRI agents out of this decision-making, and go with what JJ has been doing, and trust that JJ is a true journalist, and he is,,, I think.


Sargord Pirouz

Fair, you're being

by Sargord Pirouz on

Fair, you're being characteristically disengenuous. 

For you, it is always a binary argument: "pro" or "anti", which is completely unrealistic from an Iranian perspective inside Iran.

It is this very binary argument Bavafa is referring to. 

There are many issues in Iran that are open to discussion that fall outside this binary argument. However, to try and discuss them with you or the other exiles that subscribe to such blinkers is impossible. Moreover, it is the ultimate source of your anti-Iran cheerleading.

Now go ahead, call me names or falsely accuse me of this or that. And in the process, prove Bavafa's point by doing so.


Fair

There are more than two poles here Bavafa

by Fair on

and I generally share your concern.  But to simplify the situation as being one of only two camps of pro IRI and neocon/hard right is a slippery slope.  I am neither for example. 

What is concerning however is the degree of lies and misrepresentation and concerted misinformation that is presented here from the pro IRI camp, and given the IRI's demonstrated determination to block the flow of information, it is understandable that this trend has intensified here since last June.

So I am all for having a rigorous fact checking going on here, and penalizing those who come here and spread outright lies.  For example calling the coup of June 12 2009, and its long aftermath of murder of dozens in the streets, imprisonment of thousands more without charge or trial, rape, execution, torture, mass shutdown of media, and unleashing of death squads on innocent civilians as "law enforcement" like any other country like the US or France.  Such sinister Nazi style Geobbels-esque attempts to rewrite history and repetitively lie are very cold and calculated, and will be met with challenges.  If standards for accuracy on this website are not upheld by the website itself, then it is natural that the challenge will have to come from other readers. 

Those readers do not automatically fall into just the "other camp".

So what do you say Bavafa and JJ?   Should we have a fact checking effort?  We could even have a ranking system to show how many times a poster was caught lying.   The offending party will get a discount if they retract their statement as being an honest mistake.

This is called Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (F.A.I.R.) which is where my name comes from, and I am all for it.  We Iranians have been lied to for so long and still pay for it.

 

-FAIR


Hovakhshatare

bavafa, one could readily argue this is a radical blog

by Hovakhshatare on

never mind inaccurate or self serving.

Those who have short attention spans or no patience will only look at featured or bold items. Those who want substance, look for it and find it, if it is there and to their taste. There are a few neocons some using more than one name and a few IRR scum using even more variety of avatars. That has little to do with subtance of a blog, comments or lackthereof. I enjoy many blogs where the content is well presented and needs no comment, or might leave a word of encouragement to the author.

A quick look at your blogs bavafa would convey a very clear view that you are more interested in Gaza than Iran. Not including this post, 9 of your last 10 posts are gaza/palestine/israel related. Is that coincidence or plain out of the left field given the state of our homeland. Never mind the one track political mind. It certainly disqualifies you from staking or claiming the middle ground, politically or intellectually. The only feature worthy part of this blog is its lack of good reasoning, evidence, and self serving direction. That it is already getting many comments, does not indicate quality or substance, as already mentioned.


divaneh

Dear Bavafa

by divaneh on

Your fear of polarisation is very valid but I think it is difficult to influence the IC readers to that extent. I also would like to add that in many forums you can also read middle-of-the-road comments by some contributors. Your timely blog however is a reminder that in order to reduce the gap we all have to avoid the baseless accusations.


yolanda

......

by yolanda on

I agree with Humility that I find a lot of interesting blogs in the 2nd page of Blog Central, they talked about Persian poets, Persian poems, Persian culture, Persian inventors, Persian traditions, and Persian Nobel Prize nominees....but the blogs were never featured......I did manage to find them and I truly enjoyed reading them.....I saved some of the interesting videos, poems, and Persian proverbs......I just hope IC can give those educational and sophisticated blogs more exposures..........

thanks, 


Humility

Just A Quick Observation!

by Humility on

I believe that it's most unfortunate that 'this blog' is not being featured on the first page - There is no question in my mind that Jahanshah would be getting a great deal more 'constructive feedback' from his readership and visitors had this blog been featured!

Just an observation :)

 

 


Bavafa

Divaneh Jaan, I normally

by Bavafa on

Divaneh Jaan,

I normally wouldn't have any issues with, lets say two radical groups, want to go at it. In fact I would celebrate if GWB and Khomeini would just find an empty room and go at it. Wouldn't that be a great day?

But what concerns me is that such radical groups may end up polarizing us even more then we already are, just as US has become and therefore less gets done for the middle of the road folks which most often are the majority.

If we agree that such strongly opposite groups dominating this site, would cause us to be more polarized… then is this some thing good for IC and its readers?

Nazy khanoom,

I agree with 99% of what you wrote. The 1% part is the assumption on your part that I suggest not tolerating opposing views. That is contrary to my suggestions below. Please read my comment if have not already done so.

But it is certainly possible that a relatively healthy medium be hijack by some radicals whether by design or NOT and turn off many of its subscribers.

Mehrdad


divaneh

I have no problem with it

by divaneh on

So what if two groups representing two ends of the spectrum want to exchange comments. I may agree with one group or be completely indifferent to the issue. I can take part if I wish, and if I don’t I just ignore it. Where is the problem?


Nazy Kaviani

Bavafa Jan

by Nazy Kaviani on

I think the voices on Iranian.com are a pretty balanced representation of the schizophrenic state our nation has been experiencing over the past 30 years, since we were actually allowed, encouraged, or forced into making political statements and sharing our opinions.

It's all like in most Iranian families. How many conspiracy theory subscribers have you met in your own family? I have met quite a few who blame Ingeelees ha, US, Israel, Akhounds, Pahlavi's, Qajars, 1000 fameel, Freemasons, etc. for everything that has ever gone wrong in Iran, but never themselves, never taking any responsibility for their own actions and aspirations.

I was in Tehran in 2004 in the months prior to US presidential elections, where the main candidates were George Bush and John Kerry. I remember telling relatives that I was planning on being in the US in November so that I may vote for John Kerry. I also remember that many of them did not approve of my voting for John Kerry, demanding that I voted for George Bush, so he could come and "takleef e een akhound ha ro yek sareh bekoneh!" I was appalled at Iranians inside Iran who either didn't understand the magnitude of what they were saying or who were willing to wish for bombs and bullets for Iran so that Iran could be "liberated" by the "decider."

What I'm trying to say is that we are an eclectic group, Bavafa. We have amongst us people who are radically different in their thinking vis a vis ours. I think they should be allowed to vent and say their pieces, and we should be celebrating and improving the space which gives us equal access to a free medium to say our piece.

Please forgive me for suggesting that you may be a little "nazok narenji" in the way you are dealing with colliding points of view, even if some of those viewpoints may be outrageous. We must learn to tolerate our opponents if we want democracy for Iran. We must start exercising the democracy we wish for Iran here.

Let me assure you that if and when Iran is a free society in which democratic values and freedom of speech are respected, you will have to brace yourself for hearing a lot more different shades of opinions coming at you from 70 million people.

My two cents.


Peter Pan

About the grading system

by Peter Pan on

همین اندازه که فحش و بد و بیراه نشنویم، از سرمون هم زیاده. نمره و تشویق نامه گرفتن پیشکشمون

capt_ayhab

ya ghamare bani hashem

by capt_ayhab on

Seek truth but do not advocate censorship.

Are we ever going to learn?

-YT 


Ari Siletz

Souri

by Ari Siletz on

Grade mark is a good idea, and can be "buttonized," so little effort is needed on the part of the reader. My favorite part of IC is also the cultural stuff, and I know my comment rate on those pieces doesn't measure up to how much I appreciate the works.

Also, I understand un-registered users can't leave comments, so a "like-no like" button would allow the un-registered reader to have a say. It is possible that there are a lot of unregistered readers who contribute to the IC click count, but have no way of letting others know of their reaction to the articles.  From the read count on some articles, it can be deduced that registered readers are a fraction of the IC readership (on that specific article).