Story of How Israeli Soldiers RAPED and KILLED Arab girl.

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Story of How Israeli Soldiers RAPED and KILLED Arab girl.
by capt_ayhab
16-Feb-2009
 

For 54 years the fate of a young Bedouin girl who disappeared in the Negev desert was relegated to rumour and a single entry in the diary of David Ben-Gurion, the prime minister of the fledgling Israeli state.

"It was decided and carried out: they washed her, cut her hair, raped her and killed her," he wrote.

After that the case became one of the state's earliest secrets, and no more than hearsay passed between soldiers.

Now
the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz has used previously classified army
documents to reveal the full story of what Mr Ben-Gurion called a
"horrific atrocity".

In August 1949, an army unit stationed at
Nirim in the Negev shot an Arab man and captured a Bedouin girl with him. Her name and age remain unknown, but she was probably in her mid-teens.

In the following hours she was taken from the hut
and forced to shower naked in full view of the soldiers. Three of the men then raped her.

After the Sabbath meal the platoon commander, identified by Ha'aretz as a man called Moshe who had served in the British army during the second world war, proposed a vote on what should be done with her.

One option was to put her to work in the outpost's kitchen.

Most of the 20 or so soldiers present voted for the alternative by chanting: "We want to fuck". The commander organized a rota for groups of his men to gang rape the girl over the next three days. Moshe and one of his sergeants went first, leaving the girl unconscious. Next morning, she complicated matters by protesting about her treatment. Moshe told one of his sergeants to kill her.

She was forced into a patrol vehicle with several soldiers, two carrying shovels, and they drove off into the dunes. When the girl realised what was about to happen she tried to run, but only made it a few paces before she was shot by a Sergeant Michael.

Her body was buried in a grave less than a foot deep.

A few days later the battalion commander, Yehuda Drexler, asked Moshe if he had carried out an order to return the girl to her village.

"They killed her," replied Moshe. "It was a shame to waste the petrol." He was ordered to write a report. Ha'aretz has obtained a copy.

It said: "In my patrol on 12.8.49 I encountered Arabs in the territory under my command, one of them armed. I killed the armed Arab on the spot and took his weapon. I took the Arab female captive. On the first night the soldiers abused her and the next day I saw fit to remove her from the world."

He and most of the soldiers at the outpost were tried in secret. Some said they were carrying out their commander's orders. The military judges rejected that line of defense. Moshe denied rape. "Morally speaking, it was impossible to sleep with such a dirty girl," he told the court.

He was acquitted of rape but convicted of murder and sentenced to 15 years in prison. The judges likened his stated willingness "to murder even women and children in cold blood" to "Hitler's methods in France".

Nineteen other soldiers received light sentences of between one and three years, mostly for "negligence in preventing a crime".

The appeal court reduced their sentences, saying: "At the time there was a general feeling of contempt for the life of Arabs ... and sometimes wanton events occurred in this sphere. All this helped create an atmosphere of 'anything goes'.

"We are convinced that this atmosphere existed at the Nirim outpost, too."

But the government and army understood the shame that would fall on the armed forces if the girl's fate became known to wider Israeli society, so the murder and trial were classified as secret.

The case was briefly resurrected at the trial in 1956 of Israeli soldiers and police officers who murdered 43 Arab civilians in Kafr Qassem, to help establish the precedent that there is no defence in obeying illegal orders.

Then it disappeared from view again.

Several years later members of a kibbutz near the Nirim base noticed that the wind had uncovered a small hand.

 

http://current.com/items/89817104/israel_learns_of...

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mazandarani

mazloom you're so ridiculous

by mazandarani on

mazloom you're so ridiculous when you simulate you'd care for iran. your scornfulness for this country and it's people gleams through...you'd better argue with the crimes of your country.


default

Dear Captain Ayhab

by PedramKhan (not verified) on

You still failed to respond to my question. I think you are incapable of answering my question.


Mehdi Mazloom

Capt_ayhab I am scratching my pad.

by Mehdi Mazloom on

Except cut-n-paste from some one else's writing, I wonder if you even understand the content of the argument at hand.

case in point. How many "historians" like you know the fact that, up until 1967, the were no "Palestinians". There were calling themselves ARABS. 

All of the sudden they started calling themselves "Palestinians", after Israelis started calling their bluff, and find out, lone behold, many of them had immigrated during the 18th century from elsewhere around the ME & Gulf. Since you really can't distinguish between Arabs (maybe through their distinct Arabic accent), you would not know where did they originated from.

Now they try to fool gullible who don't know any better that, by calling themselves "Palestinians", ya'anni they try to pass on as descendants of the Philistines who disappeared more  then 2 millenniums ago.

 


capt_ayhab

Mazloom, Pedram

by capt_ayhab on

Here is the answer for you two gentlemen, have fun with the truth, that is if you two are CAPABLE of handling the truth, which i doubt.  lol

http://iranian.com/main/blog/capt-ayhab/books-pale...

----------------------------------

Excerpts:

On page 67 it says that

in 1917 there were about 57,000 jews in Palestine (the year of the
Balfour Decleration) whch amounted to 9.7% of the population.
In 1936 there were 384,000 jews in Palestine, amounting to almost 30%
of the population - an unprecedented increase in the history of
settlement. To the Palestinians, it seemed evident that, while the
politicians offered them bland words of reassurance, the immigrants
would continue to arrive in ever greater numbers until Palestine was in their hands.

Although the ambiguity which had characterized the public utterances
of Zionist spokesmen before the Balfour Declaration persisted, it
became steadily easier to read between the lines and detect the
purpose: if the Zionists were to be believed, then the Palestinians
were right to be fearful. Indeed, as early as 1921 men like Dr. Eder,
the acting chairman of the Zionist Commission, had been quite blunt,
statinf before a British Commission of Enquiry with a candour which
deeply impressed the British that:
There can only be one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish
one, and no equality in the partnership between jews and Arabs, but a
Jewish predominance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently
increased.

Arab frustration erupted...................the Palestinians killed
some
200 jews, and suffered in consequence 120 casualties among their own
people. Arab atrocity begat jewish revenge. Innocents - women and
children among them - were clubbed, stabbed and beaten to death in a
frenzy of atavistic bloodletting..........The British Enquiry
understood, and offered its conclusion that indeed it was fear and
hated of Zionist immigration which was the root cause.

As the rate of immigration increased, so did the fear. It was not
simply a matter of numbers but of purpose. In 1035 the British High
Commissioner
for Palestine, recognizing what was happening, wrote to the Colonial
Secretary at Westminister of: '....a genuine feeling of fear that the
jews will succeed in establishing themselves in such large numbers that
in the not too distant future that they will gain economic and
political control of the country'.

PAGE 68

There was no place for the Palestinians: the Jews did not need the
Arabs.
Not only did the Zionists speak their own language, follow their own
separate faith and enjoy a different culture, but they also insulated
themselves from the Arab world in every way possible. They formed their
own industries, trade unions, banks, schools, hospitals - and from all
of these Palestinians were carefully excluded. When the Jewish Agency
bought Arab land, the new settlers to whom it was bequeathed expelled
the Arab families who had farmed it for generations, thus depriving
them of their means of subsistence. The Histradruth ( the Zionist trade
union) forbade Arabs to join, and picketed any Jewish employer who took
on Arab labor. These employers who persisted were branded as traitors.

The leader of the aggressively exclusive Histradruth was DAVID BEN GURION.

The report of the Peel Commission was published in July 1937 - ''The
situation in Palestine has reached dead-lock. We cannot - in Palestine
as it is now - both concede the Arab claim to self-government and
secure the establishment of the Jewish national home''.

Twenty years on - and twenty years too late - the self-contradiction
contained in the Balfour Declaration was at last openly acknowledged.
But if the Mandate was unworkable, what was the alternative? To the
astonished horror of the Palestinians, the commission made the fateful
suggestion that their country be divided. Although the Jewish sector
owned only 5% of the land, the Peel Commission proposed that almost
half Palestine should be handed over to a Jewish state., from which -
if necessary - the Arab population, which would number more than
200,000 people, was to be forcibly transferred into the Arab
Palestinian state to be established in the other half of Palestine.

The proposed Jewish state was too small to meet the aspirations of
Zionism,
with the consequence that its leaders were ambivalent about the Peel
Commission. The Palestinians, on the other hand, facing the
dismemberment of their country, re-loaded their rifles and came down
from the hills to fight to the end.

On the 10th. April 1948, the head of the International Red Cross
delegation in Palestine drove into a small Arab village outside
Jerasulem. He was met by a detachment of a Jewish organisation called the Irgun.

''All of them were young, some even adolescents, men and women armed
to the teeth: revolvers, machine-guns, hand-grenades, and also
cutlasses in their hands, most of them still blood stained. A beautiful
young girl with criminal eyes,showed me hers still dripping with blood;
she displayed it like a trophy.'

It is always dangerous to stumble upon an atrocity. Jacques de
Reynier was fortunate to emerge alive with his official Red Cross
report of what happened the previous night in the village of Deir
Yassin.

''I found some bodies cold. Here the 'cleaning up' had been done
with
machine-guns, then hand-grenades. It had been finished off with knives,
anyone could see that. The same thing in the next room, but as I was
about to leave, I heard something like a sigh. I looked everywhere,
turned over all the bodies, and eventually found a litle foot, still
warm. It was a little girl of ten, mutilated by a hand-grenade, but
still alive....everywhere it was the same horrible sight.''

Altogether 250 men, women and children hd been butchered to death.
The survivors, at the point of hysterical collapse from shock and
grief, recorded their hideous experience for the British authorities:

families had been lined up and shot down in a barrage of machine-gun
fire;

young girls raped;

a pregnant mother was first slaughtered and
then had her stomach cut open by her murderer with a butcher's knife;

a girl who tried to remove the unborn child from the woman's womb
was shot down Some of the Irgun fighters slashed their victims to
pieces with cutlasses.

All of this was meticioiusly recorded by the British
authorities, even to the detail observed by Assistant-General Richard
Cutling, the British interrogating officer, that ; 'women had bracelets
torn from their arms and rings from their fingers, and parts of some of
the women's ears were severed in order to remove ear-rings.'

Regards dudes

 

-YT


Mehdi Mazloom

PedramKhan - Intersting challange

by Mehdi Mazloom on

I will be very interested to read our friend's reply to your challange. defending Muhammad's own behavior. It gives an insight into the mind of those Islamist and the core of their barbaric behaviors.


default

Dear Captain Ayhab

by PedramKhan (not verified) on

Dear Captain Ayhab,

You did not answer my questions and concerns

why did you think that the story was funny? What the QUran tells you to do is funny? The story was about the Prophet Mohammad advising his Ummah. That is exactly what Bukhari reports and I am going to repeat that I until I get an answer. By the way I am a former Muslim myself and I have used the ID name True persian in other blogs here. Please read this and tell me if you see anything wrong with the prophets actions and though process.

If you didn't read it before please do so now.

According to the site below:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge/rapist.htm

Muhammad allowed his men to rape the women captured in raids. However, after capturing the women, Muslims faced a dilemma. They wanted to have sex with them but also wanted to return them for ransom and therefore did not want to make them pregnant. Some of these women were already married. Their husbands had managed to escape when taken by surprise and were still alive. The raiders considered the possibility of coitus interruptus (withdrawing from intercourse prior to ejaculation). Unsure of the best course of action, they went to Muhammad for counsel. Bukhari reports:

Abu Saeed said: “We went out with Allâh's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allâh's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist." [1]

Notice that Muhammad does not forbid raping women captured in war. Instead, he indicates that when Allâh intends to create anything, nothing can prevent it. In other words, not even the absence of semen can prevent it. So Muhammad is telling his men that coitus interruptus would be futile and ill-advised because it would be an attempt to thwart the irresistible will of Allâh. Muhammad does not say a word against the forced insemination of these captive females. In fact, by criticizing coitus interruptus, in effect he supported forced insemination.

FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...
"HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?"

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise...

"There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"

It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of ....................

---------------------------------------------------

To answer to your Question I think what may have happened was very wrong , but then again it was just 1 incidence during a period or 60 years of war. No society is perfect.

By the way ,You are not Iranian. Are you? Where are u from ? From one of the Arab countries/


Mehdi Mazloom

The videos

by Mehdi Mazloom on

ayhab

You can foot dance on those videos however you wish. 

Notice that, on both videos, it was Israelis commenting on other Israelis. It can only happen due to the Israel's own democracy and the freedom of expression manifested through a powerful and independent supreme court.

I challange you to show the same demostrations tayped in Iran (or any other Arab-islamic state), where Students complain about the policy of their government, and live another day to tell us about............... on YouTube.

Now to the Videos themselves.

1.  I have seen these videos before. We have had solders opposing the conduct of IDF for many year. each can have his own personal reason. Myself had served in IDF, and we were never instructed to "rape", or mistreat the civilains, unless our lives were at  danger.

2. This is a good one. Did you notice the announcer was using the word "alleged".

It is aknow fact that, Palestinian leaders  have no regrads to the lives of their own woman and children. Could it be possible that, those wanted Palestinian terrorist, whom Israeli forces came to arrest them, they could have booby trapped the house with explosives, WITH THE FAMILIES, and themselves hide inside. 

Now the solders have 2 choices.

a) Knowing the house maybe trapped with explosives, Israeli solders step back and blow the house. b) Asking the boy to lead them directly to the terrorist hiding place, to enable them to arrest him w/o incident - thus avoid casualties of innocent people. At the same time deprive the Palestinian thugs from exploiting the carnage to advance their own sick objectives.

You can come back with any plausible explanations to fit your own agenda. But these thing do happen.


capt_ayhab

Mazloom

by capt_ayhab on

Just in case you might TRY to discredit the video's. Lets take a look at Isreali Supreme Court rulling, in regards baning IDF use of Palestians as HUMAN SHIELD:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/43148...

Israel's supreme court has banned the use of
Palestinian human shields in arrest raids, saying the practice violates
international law.

The court issued a temporary injunction against the
practice in 2002 after a teenager was killed when troops made him
negotiate with a wanted militant.

Human rights groups who brought the case say the Israeli army has repeatedly violated the temporary ban.

The army cannot use civilians for its purposes, Israel's chief justice said.

"You cannot exploit the civilian population for the
army's military needs, and you cannot force them to collaborate with
the army," Aharon Barak said.

The court ruled out both the placing of civilians in
front of soldiers on operations and as well as an "early warning"
procedure employed by the army.

In this practice the army forces local Palestinians to
flush out wanted militants by making them approach their homes first
and asking them to surrender.

Adallah submitted an affidavit by one Israeli reservist
who said: "No civilian would refuse a 'request' presented to him at
0300 by a group of soldiers aiming their cocked rifles at him."

"It's an important decision, but we need to see if the military will abide by it," said Adallah lawyer Marwan Dallal.

 

 Explain THIS humanitarian act of IDF Angels Mr. Mazloom!

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

BBC: Israeli using Palestinian Kids as Human Shields

by capt_ayhab on

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

Mazloom

by capt_ayhab on

Your usual, nonsense, and racist remarks does not come as surprise that you HEROICALLY stand by your hateful and slanderous comments. But lets analyze your defense and see if any decent human being is going to buy it:

 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

PedramKhan

by capt_ayhab on

Your answer has been given. Don't think for one second that your irrelevant BS is going to put me in a defensive position. Actually I have both you and Mr. Mazloom where I want, that is in defensive position.

I will REPEAT for you my answer, and the question I presented to you> Answer the question please:

------------------------------------------------

pedramkhan khan

by capt_ayhab on

thanks for your insightful BS. I enjoyed the laughter.

One question though. do you have problem with the story? 

And God forbid if that girl was your family member, would you hold same attitude toward the issue???

Love to hear you answer dude

------------------------------

Good day, and kindly stay with the subject matter.

capt_ayhab [-YT]


default

Regarding the rape accusations

by PedramKhan (not verified) on

Dear Ayhab:

Since I never got aresponse from you, I will re-post my previous response to you, hoping that I would get an answer. If no response from you, Then I will assume that you do not have an answer.

Please read carefully:

Even if true, One such incidence during 60 years of Israeli rule is not that many. During Saddam's rule in baghdad many Iraqi women where raped every single day. During Iran Iraq war many Iranian women in Abadan and Khorram shahr were subject to rape by Iraqi soldiers. During American occupation of Iraq several such incidences occured but I don't think one can say the whole American army is bad just because of a few incidences.

Such incidences have also occured during the Arab history .

According to the site below:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge/rapist.htm

Muhammad allowed his men to rape the women captured in raids. However, after capturing the women, Muslims faced a dilemma. They wanted to have sex with them but also wanted to return them for ransom and therefore did not want to make them pregnant. Some of these women were already married. Their husbands had managed to escape when taken by surprise and were still alive. The raiders considered the possibility of coitus interruptus (withdrawing from intercourse prior to ejaculation). Unsure of the best course of action, they went to Muhammad for counsel. Bukhari reports:

Abu Saeed said: “We went out with Allâh's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allâh's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist." [1]

Notice that Muhammad does not forbid raping women captured in war. Instead, he indicates that when Allâh intends to create anything, nothing can prevent it. In other words, not even the absence of semen can prevent it. So Muhammad is telling his men that coitus interruptus would be futile and ill-advised because it would be an attempt to thwart the irresistible will of Allâh. Muhammad does not say a word against the forced insemination of these captive females. In fact, by criticizing coitus interruptus, in effect he supported forced insemination.

According to the website below

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sin...

Ali Sina claims prophet Mohammed massacred the Jewish tribe of Banu Quraiza. There is also a Hadith in refence to that incident.( Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4390)

It's recorded in the ahadiths:

It's an acknowledged fact that Mohammad had slaughtered the beni al Quraish Jewish tribe, that had only old men and women and children left after their defeat at the Battle of al Bad'r, and that he sold a few selected young women as slaves, after accusing them of treason and having a mock trial organized.

This is also mentioned in the Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52,Number 176 and Number 280 to Number 288. The Sahih al Bukhari is considered to be the most authentic text, isn't it?

Here is one more example from the Kitab ul hudud Book 38, Number 4349: Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (pbuh)) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

Again, from the Kitab ul Hudud Book 38, Number 4341: Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal: AbuMusa said: Mu'adh came to me when I was in the Yemen. A man who was Jew embraced Islam and then retreated from Islam. When Mu'adh came, he said: I will not come down from my mount until he is killed. He was then killed. One of them said: He was asked to repent before that.

Do you want more examples of the "Prophets" work?

Is it really true? what are your comments on this?


Mehdi Mazloom

capt_ayhab - Let clarify things, again

by Mehdi Mazloom on

First, the fact that Iran is made of 98% Muslim, it does not mean innocent and well meaning Iranians have to listen to those garbage passages which you copied from my previous post. Unfortunately they do, and that is the crux of the problem. They are told killing none believers (particularly Jews) are mandated by Allah. That is rubbish, as they are the core problem and the kernel to conflict between Jews (and Christians) and Muslims.

I STAND BY MY POST.

In regards to Gaza. One more time agha. Remember that, back in 2005, Israel had completely pulled out of Gaza. They left massive units of fully functioning  green houses for the Pals to take over and earn a decent living. These GH's were providing jobs to 5000 families there. 2 week after the pullout. all of them were looted and destroyed by Pals themselves. Blame Israel.

Israel was providing a steady flow of food, fuel and two way commerce between Gaza & Israel. All went down hell basket after Hamas illegally took over Gaza and kept lunching rockets onto Israel What was the purpose for all that?

Instead of using their big heads to building themselves viable society, through job creation, factories to build, and warehouse to stocks goods for their people. They receive handouts by the day, and used their little heads during the nights to keep wombs of their wives fully stocked with more and more babies. With no means to feed and educate them. 

With average family size of 24 - 30 children, are you still wondering why Gaza has earned the dubious title "the most densest area in the world"?

Israel started to control the border when hamas started to smuggle means of destruction through more then 300 tunnels. Later used them against its civilains

Now you tell me, why taunt the most powerful and fierce military force in the region through stupid rockets, thus terrorize more then 700k Israelis. What hamas was trying to demostrate?. they are hero?. they are not. They are stupid, they are. Do these idiots in Gaza really thought, Israelis in Sderot and Ashkelon would pack up and leave to the nearest port out of the country?.

The bottom line is. Don't blame Israel. Blame Hamas and the rest of the Palestinian leadership for their failed alliance with the the wrong parties, and always end up losing.

Haj Al Hesseini with the Nazi Germany during the 30's and 40's.

Arafat with Saddam Hussein.

Now, it is Hamas selling out to the Mullahs in tehran.   


capt_ayhab

Roxy

by capt_ayhab on

You know as well as I do, these courts are nothing but a [show] to be fed to the International media. Nothing but well designed propaganda, I regret to say.

 

Regards 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

Mazloom

by capt_ayhab on

you say[Unless you have family members living in Gaza. you would not have the
same tangible fears and concerns as I have with my love ones living in Sderots and Ashdod. They had to endure 8000 rockets from Gaza...
]

Except some media and press, who have made comments such as[Hamas's rockets killed only one or two Israelis....] and such, I would never downplay losses sustained by Israeli nationals, whether being physical or psychological. I want you, as a human being compare the magnitude of tragedy in BOTH sides, If you can ofcourse.

However, do you mean to tell me, that I, as a member of human kind,  can grasp the horror ONLY if I have a family member in Gaza. If that is what you are implying, I have only one word for you... Horse Crap[that was 2]

you say[Faced to chose between the lives of my family, and fellow countryman in Israel, or the lives of the those children in Gaza who Hamas  thugs put them in harms way. Whom do you think should I chose.....]

Israel, through her intentional and long planned policy to EXPEL Arabs from Palestine, has created the ugliest apartheid system in Gaza. By building wall around the strip that resembles a huge concentration camp, with 1.4 million inhabitants[That is 14000 people per square mile of land].

Past 8 years Israel has denied BASIC humanitarian necessities, Water, food, electricity and medicine for these people. And you have the audacity to tell me that Hamas has put those children in harms way??? WHERE are these children supposed to go? Where are they supposed to run? Where are they suppose to hide. You tell me Mr. Humanitarian man.

[I invite you to bring here true and genuine quote to which I had made to that effect to support your accusation....]

Dude, 98% of Iranians are Muslim. In thread after thread, you portray Islam as religion of evil, by selectively quoting text from Qur'an which you know very well is taken out of context.

Here is how your so called logic works... 98% Iranians are Muslim, Islam is religion of hate, readers  concussion= Iranians are hateful people.

-------------------------------------------------------------

You say proof, here it is:

Are these the words of Allah???????

by Mehdi Mazloom on

Just count the number of times Allah the Merciful and the compassionate repeats the words FIGHT and KILL.

The question then begs, is the same "comassionate, and Mercifule" god,
is also a bloodthirsty and murderous one. Or "somebody-we-know-whom,
had just invented god as his own alter-ego to make others to do the
biddings for him, while himself literally gets away with murder. You be
the judge.

Qur’an 9:5Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush
them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an 9:112 “The Believers
fight in Allah’s Cause
,
they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”

Qur’an 9:29Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender,
paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So
fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]
and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole
world).”

Qur’an 9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.”

Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge
the faithful to fight.
If there are twenty among you with determination they will
vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter
a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of
understanding.”

Qur’an 9:38 “Believers, what is the
matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight
in Allah’s Cause 
you
cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the
Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a
painful doom, and put others in your place.”


Qur’an 9:123Fight
the unbelievers around you
,
and let them find harshness in you.”

Qur’an 47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in
Allah’s Cause), smite
their necks
until
you overpower them, killing
and wounding many of them
.
At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly,
making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down
its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out
Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”


Qur’an 2:193Fight them until
there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah.
But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against
infidel disbelievers.”


Qur’an 2:246 “He said: ‘Would you refrain from fighting if fighting were prescribed for you?’
They said: ‘How could we refuse to fight in Allah’s Cause?’”

 

LINK you say: http://iranian.com/main/news/2009/02/12/banned-dut...

-----------------------------------------------------

Are these your post? want to try and deny them?

Have a wonderful day buddy and take a little break from your hate and racism. Stop demonizing people who have done nothing to you. It is your country[Israel] who is constanly lobbying and propagating bombing of Iran, not the other way around.

 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


rosie is roxy is roshan

No I do not display utter ignorance, MM,

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

because you are corroborating that what my friend told me about the illegality of comparing IDF actions with Nazi ones was correct ,and that was my specific (and one and only) question to you in the post below.

Also, I have worked tirelessly on this site since I got here end 07 to get people to stop using Nazi terminology in dialoguing with Zionists until/unless an excellent relationship is established between the dialoguers and then only as an open-ended discussion. I have been successful in getting several people to say they will never do it again.

I have also arguesd here that the use of this terminology is innacurate because the practices of the Nazis were VERY often VERY different from those of the Israelis and I will never stop arguing these things.

As far as my knowledge of the Nazis goes which you seem to assert I am utterly ignorant of, I spent an entire year , 1992,doing NOTHING but studying them and related issues. I taught myself German to be able to understand some original texts and went to live in Germany too to understand the German people and how they cope with this past better. I have seen footage of the liberation of the camps by the DC that is pretty unknown and far worse than the more common photos. Some of us have right now been discussing Dr. Heim on my blog below on "Nazi Dinosaurs", a funny video that became a very serious thread. I posted that blog to help calm people down who told me they wee vtoo disturbed by my blog previous to that on the so-called "Nazi State of Israel" to think clearly because of the related and very graphic video n the effects of Hiroshima, contained within the blog.The funny video was an attempt at stbilization of the discourse, no more. 

Further,as  a free speech advocate and ciil libertairian I defend people's right to speak even if they are talking horse shit as long as it does not present a "clear and present danger." Holocaust "deniers" in Canada do not present such a danger and should not be imprisoned IMHO. Likewise, Nazi comparisons with IDF actions within Israel do not present one. In Germany, perhaps they both do but not in Israel or Canada.

Again I am going to remind you that these kinds of unwarranted and BASELESS  barbed comments you like to hurl at me  do nothing but alienate people here from hearing the case for Israel. I am one of the only patient ones who is willing to endure them to try to find out the truth, however I must tell you that you make a gross strategic blunder when you use them, especially against me in full view of the public who mostly know that I act in good faith and and that my bottom line has always been truth above all ideological considerations.It is why I am considered by many to be a valuable mediator.

Why do yoou persist in sabotaging my atttempts at public mediation through these strategic blunders of yours which serve to make people think that Zionists are dogmatic, hostile irrational and mean-spirited?

It is especially dangerous on this site where people have been afflicted by such abuses by Zion as being told at the moment of ceasefire in Gaza that they were wishing the massacres would continue just to make Israel look bad. The ceasefire blog was so vicious that Jahanshah couldn't eeven feature it when he hoped for nothing more ardently than a ceasefire, and someone as sweet and apolitical as Nazy Kaviani felt compelled to denounce it in a new blog?

Yes, I did denounce Zion in my blog, open letter to her, but it was because she was and remains so toxic to the entire situation as well as so flagrantly abusive to others. I did not ENJOY doing it but I HAD to because I was the only person who could do it formally in the shape of a blog without being accused of being anti-Semitic. I felt it was my responsibility because her abuses discredit all other arguments for the case for Israel.

I lhated doing it but I don't regret it for one moment and I would do it again if I had to except that after repeatedly calling me a "dhimmi Jew" since then despite my repeatedly telling her to stop, I told her and everyone I would no longer read her posts, and I don't so I have no idea what she's saying anymore. I recommended others follow suit. Dhimmi Jew is a racist comment toward Iranians on this site by dint of accusing them all of racism.


When you insist on hurling these BASELESS barbs at me you ally yourself MORALLY with Zion and her "ilk" to use one of her favorite terms. This is a gross strategic blunder.

There are Zionists here who respect me and dialog with me not only civilly but with warmth, and even if we can't come to an agreement on specifics, the warmth itself is giant steps in the right direction for everyone to see. Peace begins between individuals.

Cut it out, will you?


Mehdi Mazloom

Rosie, I have an answer for you

by Mehdi Mazloom on

you wrote:

I have a friend whom I haven't spoken to in quite a while

And I have relatives who I speak with every week about their lives under constant fear of rockets coming from Gaza.

You wrote:

He told me it's illegal to compare the actions of the Israeli regime toward the Palestinians to Nazism. 

Unless you haven't read or watch the Nazi atrocities against humanity, you wouldn't grasp the purpose of this prohibition. (I can't believe you demonstrate such utter ignorance on this topic).

On another matter, it is also illegal to express any comparisons between the Nazi's and the Europeans themselves throughout most of countries in there. 

 


DW Duke

Keeping it in Perspective

by DW Duke on

Many of these discussions seem to take matters out of perspective.  We need to remember that the reason such events shock us so much is that they are rare among Jews while they are common among Muslims.  That is why they are shocking to us.  The simple fact that there are 1.3 billion muslims in the world and only 14 million Jews mandates that we will hear more of these kinds of stories. 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090216/us_nm/us_bridgestv_murder

The reason this story immediately caught my attention as possibly religiously based is that those who maintain that Israeli soldiers may force sex upon a female captives also believe that she must have her head shaved.  These men cut her hair before raping her. This caught my attention.  It is possible that they were not attempting to comply with any religious instruction at all but it certainly emerged as a possibility which is the reason I would like more information. 

 


rosie is roxy is roshan

Mehdi, I have a question for you

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

I mentioned it below.

I have a friend whom I haven't spoken to in quite a while who is a leftist activist who spent a couple of years travelling back and forth between New York, Israel and Palestine. He told me it's illegal to compare the actions of the Israeli regime toward the Palestinians to Nazism. That would've been I think three to four years ago.

WAS this true and IS it true?
Thx

Roxane


Mehdi Mazloom

capt_ayhab - Lets cut through the nonesense

by Mehdi Mazloom on

If you wish to be "perfectly honest with me" (as you claim), then bring evidence to support your claims, or accusation against me. Exactly as I have been doing.

I brought you clear evidence to demonstrate your own double standard, and have yet to see you do the same. 

In rrgards to the Pals and Gaza. Unless you have family members living in Gaza. you would not have the same tangible fears and concerns as I have with my love ones living in Sderots and Ashdod. They had to endure 8000 rockets from Gaza.

Faced to chose between the lives of my family, and fellow countryman in Israel, or the lives of the those children in Gaza who hamas  thugs put them in harms way. Whom do you think should I chose.

You see, for you and other Iranians, this issue a mere intellectual exercise, and I welcome it, You have the right to be concerend about another human being who sufferes. However, for us is a matter of life and death of our loved ones.

You give me one palatible reason, what is it Hamas trying to accomlish by provoking Israel with their stupid acts of sending rockets onto civilians center.

You wrote:

Once you start, genuinely admitting to the crimes of IDF and your leaders.

Again, I never demonized neither Iran, and certaily not the Iranian people, whom I still perceive as the rfeal victims of a barberic regime which leads them down the destructive path.

I invite you to bring here true and genuine quote to which I had made to that effect to support your accusation.

Please do!!!!! 

 


rosie is roxy is roshan

The account reveals several interesting things as I understand

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

them about the state of Israel (of course, I'm no expert..)

It shows how from the very inception of the state the military has shown a nominal respect for a democratic form of fair jurisprudence but has always been giving very light sentences. So it's nothing new. And when you talk to the hard-line Zionists, they'll tell you these things, they'll tell you oh Israel has these thorough courts that investigate all the reports of abuse and they try people and so on..and there's all these watchdog groups..

but the fact is the courts have always been sugar-coated ones for the military.

An even MORE Interesting thing is the likening of the tactics in court to the Nazi brutalities. It shows that at that time while it was so fresh in everyone's mind there was probably a strong trend of RESISTING becoming what the Jews most hated and feared but as time went on and the political situation worsened and they ossified into certain..habits...

last I was told, and this was three, four years ago??? it was ILLEGAL to compare the Israeli military tactics to those of the Nazis...something that sounded very strange to me but I can't doubt it much because I was told it by a Jewish activist friend of mine who travelled very regularly between New York, Palestine and Israel...

interesting..

thx so much for the post.

and for the kudos of course.

Roxy


capt_ayhab

Mazloom

by capt_ayhab on

I am going to be perfectly honest with you. There was a time that I did in fact read your posts and comments. For I thought you, despite being a Jew, and perhaps even from Israel, spoke of truth and justice.

However, as the time passed, I noticed that you have no other propose in your comments but to SPAM the threads by posting repetitious and twisted version of the TRUTH that there is.

With all due respect, I find your comments one sides, biased, and filled with propaganda, which are designed to portray Israeli actions as HUMANITARIAN, and JUST for the people who had lived in Palestine for centuries.

Unfortunately, more I read your comment, a pattern emerges which is in total denial of truth.Asides from this pattern, what disturbes me more is thatyou cease every single opportunity to demonize Iran and Iranians. My friend, that does not sit very well with me.

You might ask you dear friend Ms. Zion as to my opinion to the right of Israeli nationals, as well as Palestinians. Do remember one thing though, I am not the one who denies crimes against civilians, in either side, It is YOU who is in constant denial, and revision of the history.

I hope I am making myself clear, ONCE you start commenting and engaging me in a logical, systematic, and above all humanitarian manor. Once you start, genuinely admitting to the crimes of IDF and your leaders.  Once you stop demonizing Iran and Iraninas, then I will be more than happy to oblige. But till then, do not spam the threads with irrelevant and repetitious propaganda material from your HANDBOOK.

Deal?

capt_ayhab [-YT]


Mehdi Mazloom

capt_ayhab, can you even see stright??.

by Mehdi Mazloom on

In your original post you brought this:

a single entry in the diary of David Ben-Gurion, the prime minister of the fledgling Israeli state.

"It was decided and carried out: they washed her, cut her hair, raped her and killed her," he wrote.

Then I showed you that, Arabs did exact thing against Israelis with this:

In 1954, Har-Zion's sister, Shoshana, was raped and murdered at the age 18 by a group of Arab Bedouins, while she was traveling to the Dead Sea from Jerusalem via Jordanian.

So. When Arabs (or hate filled Islamist) kill, and rape Jews (or non-Muslims), it is ok by you ha?. After all, it is sanctioned by that holy dude Quran. However, when others respond in kind, then it is crime in your book?.

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AGHA. YOU ARE LIGHT WEIGHT WHEN IT COMES TO POLEMICS ON THIS TOPIC. Stick with Iranian issue. 

Spend your time worrying about 2 million Iranians going hungry, while this despotic regime spends their money on Hizbollah, Hamas, and subversion throughout the region.

Worry about 27% unemployment and 25% inflation rates in Iran.

Worry about the rights of 30M bright young man and woman in Iran - deprived of their fundamental rights of free expression. 

Worry about the destructive path to which this backward akhoonda are leading Iran.


capt_ayhab

Yitzak Rabin, another HERO

by capt_ayhab on

By David K. Shipler
Reprinted from the New York Times
October 23, 1979

JERUSALEM, Oct. 22 – A censorship board composed of five Cabinet
members prohibited former Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin from including
in his memoirs a first-person account of the expulsion of 50,000
Palestinian civilians from their homes near Tel Aviv during the 1948
Arab-Israeli war.

Mr. Rabin’s account does not differ markedly from
others. In “O Jerusalem,” Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre
described “a calculated Israeli policy” to drive Arab residents from
their homes, and they confirmed reports by some survivors that many
elderly people and small children died in the overpowering heat during
the forced march.

In both “O Jerusalem” and “Genesis 1948” by Dan Kurzman, the
eviction from Lod was attributed to the local residents’ opening fire
on the Israelis shortly after surrendering. Fouzi el-Asmar, in his book
“To Be an Arab in Israel,” also documented the expulsion, which he
witnessed as a child.

 

 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

Ariel Sharon... Your HERO

by capt_ayhab on

By Robert Fisk
From The UK Independent
February 6, 2001

[...This is a place of filth and blood which will forever be associated
with Ariel Sharon. In Israel today, he may well be elected prime
minister. Then he will be master of the most powerful nation in the
Middle East; he will travel to America, he will visit the White House
and shake hands with President George W Bush. But for everyone who
stood in the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in Beirut on 18 September
1982, his name is synonymous with butchery; with bloated corpses and
disembowelled women and dead babies, with rape and pillage and murder.
.. ]

 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

For that fact

by capt_ayhab on

Lets see the history of Israel Independance war[massacres] shall we????

1. Zionist forces committed at least 33 massacres and destroyed 531
Palestinian villages and towns. Author Norman Finkelstein states:
“According to the former director of the Israeli army archives, ‘in
almost every village occupied by us during the War of Independence,
acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders,
massacres, and rapes’...Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli
military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining
that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs.

Norman Finkelstein, Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict;

George W. Ball & Douglas B. Ball, The Passionate Attachment,
on p. 29: quotes a message from future prime minister Menachem Begin,
head of the Irgun Zionist terrorist group, commending them on the
grisly massacre of women, children, and old men at the village of Deir
Yassin: “’Accept my congratulations on this splendid act of conquest.
Convey my regards to all the commanders and soldiers. We shake your
hands. We are all proud of the excellent leadership and the fighting
spirit in this great attack. We stand to attention in memory of the
slain. We lovingly shake the hands of the wounded. Tell the soldiers:
you have made history in Israel with your attack and your conquest.
Continue thus until victory. As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will
attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest.’”

2. Over the 60 years since Israel’s founding on May 14, 1948, this
profound injustice has continued. Palestinian refugees are the largest
remaining refugee population in the world.

1.3 million Palestinians live in Israel as “Israeli citizens,” but
despite their status as citizens, they are subject to systematic
discrimination. Many are prohibited from living in the villages and
homes from which they were violently expelled, and their property has
been confiscated for Jewish-only uses. In Orwellian terminology,
Israeli law designates these internal refugees as “present absentees.

A number of authors describe Israel’s systematic discrimination against non-Jews. Jonathon Cook’s book, Blood and Religion, is one of the most thorough. Also, Separate and Unequal: The Inside Story of Israeli Rule in East Jerusalem
by three Israelis, Amir S. Cheshin, Bill Hutman, and Avi Melamed,
contains a great deal of information about policies of discrimination
against non-Jewish residents.

Tom Segev, 1949, The First Israelis,
p. 80: “More than half a million acres were thus expropriated from
their owners. A few thousand of these owners were actually living in
Israel, yet the law defined them as absentees, even if they had only
left their homes for a few days and stayed with relatives in a nearby
village or town, waiting for the fighting to end. Later they came to be
referred to as “present absentees.

Zionists originally also considered Uganda/Kenya, Argentina, and
elsewhere for the creation of a Jewish state. One group began a project
of emigrating to Texas: “...the Galveston Immigration Scheme (GIS)
brought 10,000 Jews to Texas between 1906 and 1914” Mulhall, pp. 50-52.

 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

Gentlemen

by capt_ayhab on

I appreciate you heroic efforts to down play the situation and the tragic story. That tells me how dark hearted and inhumane you two[one] gentlemen are.

Question i will propose to you is, knowing how PEACEFUL,  LOGICAL  and HUMANITARIAN[LOL] you guys are, what would your reaction be if the same thing were to happen to your beloved[God forbid].

Love to hear your HUMANITARIAN, PEACE LOVING, UNBIASED responses.  I need something to laugh about. So indulge me and rest of the people.

Thanks 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

pedramkhan khan

by capt_ayhab on

thanks for your insightful BS. I enjoyed the laughter.

One question though. do you have problem with the story? 

And God forbid if that girl was your family member, would you hold same attitude toward the issue???

Love to hear you answer dude

capt_ayhab [-YT]


capt_ayhab

Mazloon

by capt_ayhab on

I see that I have rattled some cages by posting this FACTUAL story about the crimes of occupying forces.

Now tell me one thing,  if we ASSUME your hateful lies about 1400 years ago could hold any water, what does that have to do with the story.

Mazloom, what is it about your inability to stay with the conversation and subject matter? Does truth bother you?

 

capt_ayhab [-YT]


mazandarani

addendum

by mazandarani on

of course his (reza pahlevis) rights should not include any "inherited" rights to rule. if he wishes to, he has to be authorized demoratically. (if a majority wants a monarchy, it has to be legitimized, by a referendum)