Dale_Husband

Dear Divaneh, my concern is about national security issues

My views are here: 

• God Business is big business: Bahai Leaders confirm not caring about Followers

• Dialogue with Haifan-Baha'i Leaders -- People Have Questions.

• a 40 year veteran of the Bahai Faith and a Former Bahai leader states explicitly on video that "Bahais try to threaten, defame, and stalk" others to avoid talking about issues 

• "Money deals the Bahai leaders have engaged in to make them extremely wealthy, includes exploiting the misery of other people."  

• Baha’i Child Rape Court Case - Implications for Iran

• "Iranians under attack by Haifan Bahai propaganda organization."

• Bahai Spy Ring Busted in India Working for Israel, Iranian-Bahais Involved

divaneh

I agree with you that everything should be open to an intellectual debate but I also think that the first condition for an intellectual debate is to have intellectuals on both sides of the argument. An intellectual amongst other things needs to be honest, unbiased and in touch with the necessities of the society at the time.

That is exactly right. But then you say.... 

Do you see these qualities present in the known individual here? If you believe that the author is honestly afraid of a Baha’i government in Iran then you believe anything.

I do not recall saying that the Baha'is would take over Iran's goverment in the near future. But the Baha'i Administrative Order does have the potential to become a world government if Baha'is ever became the dominant religion of the world or even of parts of the world. If you had lived in 100 AD, would you have expected that Christianity, a despised radical sect of Judaism, would grow into the dominant religion of the Roman Empire by 400 AD? But that's what happened!

With respect to the case of women and their election to the Universal House of Justice (UHJ) I have to say that this in my view is an anomaly. This rule needs to change and given the democratic nature of this faith and the fact that this rule is not based on words of Bahaullah or his son Abdullbaha, I think it will change. UHJ can either change this rule or see the Baha’i faith facing irrelevance like any other backwardly rigid religion.

I think you need to study the Baha'i Writings a lot more.....or, rather, how they have been interpreted since the time of Baha'u'llah. Even Baha'u'llah refered to the "Men of Justice" in the Kitab-i-Aqdas, which was taken to mean only men could serve on the Universal House of Justice by Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi. And their interpretations are considered to be infallible and binding on all Baha'is, not subject to change or rejection by anyone in the Baha'i community, at least by the majority sect of Baha'is headquatered at Haifa.

I think if we get the god (who is nothing but a creation of human mind) out of the equation and view Bahaullah as a human that he was (and not a prophet), then we can appreciate the greatness of this philosopher and progressive Iranian thinker. He voiced the equality of men and women when women suffered a male imposed inequality in most of the world and true oppression in Iran. 

If there is no God, and Baha'u'llah was not a prophet, then he was a liar, for he claimed to speak for God like every prophet that came before him. 

I would be pleased to reply to any comment that you may make but I would not reply to any individual who seeks a platform to push a certain agenda. An agenda that has nothing with realities of our time and sides with the IRI oppressors.

What agenda? And who are the IRI oppressors? I hate when people make vague claims and accusations that are meaningless to me.

Worth repeating:  An intellectual amongst other things needs to be honest, unbiased and in touch with the necessities of the society at the time.

Everyone should remember this. Too bad the Baha'is that fight with me here do not! Their religion stopped being progressive in the 1980s, when the cutting edge of social progress began to shift from fighing racism and sexism to promoting gay rights, which Baha'is oppose! The Baha'is STILL want to promote race unity, which is safe for them, but also makes them useless as a social force. By contrast, Unitarian Universalists have made gay rights their cause, adding it to fighting  racism, sexism, and other bigotries. And they will make a much bigger difference than Baha'is ever have for that reason.

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

Everything is not open to debate ...

"by divaneh on Sun Jul 08, 2012 04:45 PM PDT I agree with you that everything should be open to an intellectual debate but I also think that the first condition for an intellectual debate is to have intellectuals on both sides of the argument. An intellectual amongst other things needs to be honest, unbiased and in touch...."    

• If everything should be open to debate, why do you suppose posts showing manipulation of the 'debate' by blocking persons who want to chime-in are kept off of the front page blog-roll of Iranian.com?     Is that what Iranian.com terms a "debate"?  If so, I'd hate to see the vision of 'democracy' they are peddling because their moderation of 'debates' amounts to the intentional dissemination of largely one-sided hate speech while their intellectual opponents are blocked.  It's fairly clear who the whipping-boys of this online journal of impartiality are.  

نساء و رجال يک اناث و يکی ذکور

پرشین، پرشین که میگفتید!! همین بود؟؟!!

I wear an Omega watch

برابری زن و مرد

این هم سخنان عبدالبهاء در این مورد که پایۀ اعتقادات بهائیان را تشکیل می دهد: 

همچنين وحدت نوع را اعلان نمود که نساء و رجال کلّ در حقوق مساوی بهيچوجه امتيازی در ميان نيست. زيرا جميع انسانند فقط احتياج بتربيت دارند اگر نساء مانند رجال تربيت شوند هيچ شبهه ای نيست که امتيازی نخواهد ماند. زيرا عالم انسانی مانند طيور محتاج بدو جناح است يک اناث و يکی ذکور مرغ با يک بال پرواز نتواند نقص يک بال سبب وبال بال ديگر است. عالم بشر عبارت از دو دست است چون دستی ناقص ماند دست کامل هم از وظيفهء خويش باز ماند. خدا جميع بشر را خلق کرده جميع را عقل و دانش عنايت فرموده و جميع را دو چشم و دو گوش داده دودست و دوپا عطا کرده در ميان امتيازی نگذارده است. لهذا چرا بايد نساء از رجال پست تر باشند؟ عدالت الهی قبول نميکند عدل الهی کلّ را مساوی خلق فرموده در نزد خدا ذکور و اناثی نيست هر کس قلبش پاک تر عملش بهتر در نزد خدا مقبول تر خواه زن باشد خواه مرد. چه بسيار زنان پيدا شده اند که فخر رجال بوده اند مثل حضرت مريم که فخر رجال بوده مريم مجدليّه غبطهء رجال بود مريم امّ يعقوب قدوه رجال بود آسيه دختر فرعون فخر رجال بود سارا زن ابراهيم فخر رجال بود و همچنين امثال آنها بسيار است. حضرت فاطمه شمع انجمن نساء بود حضرت قرّة‌العين کوکب نورانی روشن بود. و در اين عصراليوم در ايران زنانی هستند که فخر رجالند عالمند شاعرند واقفند در نهايت شجاعت هستند. تربيت نساء اعظم و اهمّ از تربيت رجال است. زيرا اين دختران روزی مادران شوند و اطفال را مادر تربيت ميکند اوّل معلّم اطفال مادرانند. لهذا بايد در نهايت کمال و علم و فضل باشند تا بتوانند پسران را تربيت کنند و اگر مادران ناقص باشند اطفال نادان و جاهل گردند.

 باید زنها هم مانند مردها تربیت شوند البته به درجه مرد می رسند. علی الخصوص در هیعت اجتماعیه عضو عاملند. لهذا خدا راضی نیست که این عضو مهم در نهایت کمال نباشد و عدل نیز چنین اقتضا می نماید که زنان و مردان مساوی باشند، تربیت واحد بشوند و وظیفه شان را به تمامه اجرا دارند. در نزد خدا زنی و مردی نیست.

ممکن نیست سعادت عالم انسانی کامل گردد مگر به مساوات کاملۀ زنان و مردان.

خطابات ، عبدالبهاء

Dear religionoutofgovernment

I agree with you that everything should be open to an intellectual debate but I also think that the first condition for an intellectual debate is to have intellectuals on both sides of the argument. An intellectual amongst other things needs to be honest, unbiased and in touch with the necessities of the society at the time. Do you see these qualities present in the known individual here? If you believe that the author is honestly afraid of a Baha’i government in Iran then you believe anything.

With respect to the case of women and their election to the Universal House of Justice (UHJ) I have to say that this in my view is an anomaly. This rule needs to change and given the democratic nature of this faith and the fact that this rule is not based on words of Bahaullah or his son Abdullbaha, I think it will change. UHJ can either change this rule or see the Baha’i faith facing irrelevance like any other backwardly rigid religion.

As another person mentioned there are other inequalities between sexes in the Baha’i faith such as the prioritisation of women's education over men. The women are active in all other levels and are elected to local and national assemblies. They are encouraged to avoid Hejab. Things such as Mehrieh that reduce woman to merchandise do not exist in this religion although rarely practiced by some. A woman's statement is as worthy as a man's statement. In short there is nothing else that men can do that women can't. Now you go compare to any other ideology that you wish.

I think if we get the god (who is nothing but a creation of human mind) out of the equation and view Bahaullah as a human that he was (and not a prophet), then we can appreciate the greatness of this philosopher and progressive Iranian thinker. He voiced the equality of men and women when women suffered a male imposed inequality in most of the world and true oppression in Iran. Consider the following about women suffrage in different societies.

Bahaullah (first half of 19th century), Austria (1889), Denmark (1909), France (1944), UK (1928), Japan (1945), Iran (1963). You can check the rest yourself.

I think all Iranians must be pride of such a visionary thinker who voiced the need for equality of men and women along with women movements in the Europe and US.

I will follow this comment with some words from Abdulbaha whose words form the core beliefs of Baha’is.

I would be pleased to reply to any comment that you may make but I would not reply to any individual who seeks a platform to push a certain agenda. An agenda that has nothing with realities of our time and sides with the IRI oppressors.

Opening the floodgates

You Baha'i hypocrites opened the door for me when you claimed that I was criticizing just one negative aspect of the Baha'i Faith and ignoring all the great things about it. Well....

//dalehusband.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/the-universal-house-of-the-international-teaching-center-of-justice/

{{{This ironic title above refers to the incestuous relationship that has recently been established between two major bodies of the Baha’i Administrative Order (BAO) : The Universal House of Justice (UHJ) and the International Teaching Center (ITC).  The former is the supreme governing body of the BAO, while the latter’s membership is appointed by the UHJ. The bureaucratic nature of this system is illustrated by the “alphabet soup” I used here, much like that of American governmental institutions. Note also that the buildings of the Baha’i World Center look a lot like the governmental buildings in Washington, D. C. Would you call this spiritual?

When the UHJ was first established in 1963, its membership included former members of the International Baha’i Council (these had been appointed by Shoghi Effendi) and members of various National Spiritual Assemblies.  Later, the UHJ established the ITC, intended to take the place of the dwindling Hands of the Cause of God. Over several decades, however, more and more members of the UHJ have tended to come from the ITC, until today, ALL the UHJ members were elected from the ITC’s membership, which was appointed by the UHJ previously. This is known as a “feedback loop”. The result is a system that is by nature extremely conservative and not open to new ideas that could allow it to adapt to changing circumstances.

This is truly no better than the Roman Catholic Church, in which the Popes are elected by the College of Cardinals, and these Cardinals are themselves appointed by the previous Popes!}}}

And also..... 

//dalehusband.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/the-universal-house-of-empty-rhetoric/

{{{Take a look at this latest message from the Universal House of Justice, the supreme governing body of the (Haifan) Baha’i Faith, addressed to the Baha’is of the world:

//www.scribd.com/doc/46231806/UHJ-1-January-2011-Message

{{1 January 2011

To the Bahá’ís of the World

Dearly loved Friends,

For the past five days, the Continental Counsellors have been gathered in conference in the Holy Land, engaged in earnest deliberation at once insightful and clear visioned, well grounded and confident, on the progress of the Divine Plan.  The joy and wonder of this gathering, now entering its closing moments, has come from the vivid retelling of your numerous exploits, deeds which secured the astonishing attainment of the goal of the Five Year Plan one year early.  It is hard to express in words how much love for you has been shown in these few, fleeting days.  We praise God that He has raised up a community so accomplished and render thanks to Him for releasing your marvellous potentialities.  You it is who, whether in collective endeavours or individual efforts, are presenting the verities of the Faith and assisting souls to recognize the Blessed Beauty.  You it is who, in your tens of thousands, are serving as tutors of study circles wherever receptivity is kindled.  You it is who, without thought of self, are providing spiritual education to the child and kindly fellowship to the junior youth.  You it is who, through visits to homes and invitations to yours, are forging ties of spiritual kinship that foster a sense of community.  You it is who, when called to serve on the institutions and agencies of the Cause, are accompanying others and rejoicing in their achievements.  And it is all of us,whatever our share in this undertaking, who labour and long, strive and supplicate for the transformation of humanity, envisioned by Baha’u'llah, to be hastened.

A new five-year horizon now beckons, rich with portent.  The features of the Plan that will begin this Ridvan are set out in a letter we addressed to the Counsellors Conference at its opening session and which was transmitted to National Spiritual Assemblies the same day.  We hope that you will be able to give it thoughtful study, alongside the message we addressed to you at Ridvan 2010, at gatherings of all kinds–whether at the national, regional, or cluster level, in local communities, in neighbourhoods and villages, or in the home.  We are certain that, through the consultations about the Plan in which you participate, your understanding will deepen and, conscious of the spiritual forces that support you, you will resolve to make this global enterprise a personal concern and become as occupied with the well-being of the human family as you are with that of your dearest kin.  It brings us great joy that so many souls throughout the Bahá’í community are ready to thus distinguish themselves.  But what gratifies us beyond this is the certain knowledge that victories will be won in the next five years by youth and adults, men and women, who may at present be wholly unaware of Baha’u'llah’s coming, much less acquaintedwith the “society-building power” of His Faith.  For you possess a potent instrument for spiritually empowering the masses of humanity to take charge of their own destiny, aninstrument tempered in the crucible of experience.  You know well, and have heard clearly, the call of Baha’u'llah:  ”I am the Sun of Wisdom and the Ocean of Knowledge.  I cheer the faint and revive the dead.  I am the guiding Light that illumineth the way.  I am the royal Falcon on the arm of the Almighty.  I unfold the drooping wings of every broken bird and start it on its flight.”

Our abiding prayers are with each of you.

[signed:  The Universal House of Justice]}}

My jaw dropped at the simple fact that this statement contained NOTHING of substance whatsoever. No definite facts, no detailed plans, no warnings about what the future may hold.

What an incredible contrast I find to a recent statement by Rev. Peter Morales, the President of the Unitarian Universalist Association, where you can actually learn something and thus be inspired!

{{December 10, 2010

Dear Friends,

Our holiday rituals and traditions evoke memories—memories that link us to friends, to family, to our cultures of origin, to our most profound sense of who we are.

My early memories from growing up in San Antonio include church Christmas pageants and huge multi-generational parties with extended family. The dominant culture’s snowy images of a white Christmas, winter wonderlands, ice skating and Ebenezer Scrooge in London seemed odd to a child growing up in south Texas. My church always had an outdoor live nativity scene and sometimes it was chilly enough to require a light jacket under my shepherd’s costume.

Since my youth I have spent the holidays in many parts of the United States and even in foreign countries. (There is nothing quite like seeing Santa, reindeer, and fake snow in Thailand!) But regardless of religious background or culture, for those of us who have grown up with an end-of-year holiday tradition, the emotional tug is always there.

Traditions and rituals touch something very deep. The stories we hear and repeat become an essential part our story. They remind us of our need for one another, of the importance of compassion, of the centrality of hope, of our deep longing for peace.

One of the old traditions practiced in the San Antonio of my youth and across the Southwest is the Mexican custom of “Las Posadas.” In Spanish a “posada” is a place of lodging, a resting place, a place of shelter on a journey. This tradition, based on the biblical account of Mary and Joseph having to stay in a stable because there was no room in the inn, has special resonance for us today.

The practice of Las Posadas began almost five hundred years ago in colonial Mexico. A small group of people, some dressed as Mary and Joseph and carrying candles to light the way, go from house to house and sing songs asking for shelter. At each house they are turned away until, finally, someone lets them in. All of this is prearranged, of course. Then, in a true expression of Mexican culture, the people celebrate with music, dancing, lots of food, and a piñata. In some villages and neighborhoods, there is a different procession and a different stopping point each night for nine days, beginning December 16 and ending Christmas Eve.

This year—a year in which our nation is torn by anti-immigrant sentiment, a year in which I found myself protesting and even being arrested and jailed for opposing what I believe are racist anti-immigrant laws—the religious lessons of Las Posadas are even more striking. In a year that saw a record number of migrants die in our deserts, a story about helpless people being turned away profoundly touches my heart.

More importantly, like all good traditions, the lessons of Las Posadas go far beyond public policy debates. Each one of us, at some time in our lives, has been Mary or Joseph. Think of a time you needed shelter—physical or, more likely, emotional. Think of a time you needed compassion, needed someone simply to take you in and give you a place that was safe.

Recall, too, all the times you have been the person who turned away “Mary” or “Joseph.” I shudder to remember the many times I was too preoccupied, too insensitive, too busy, too self absorbed to offer the simple kindness of a sympathetic ear, a cup of tea, a little emotional shelter.

Recall, too, all the times you have been the kind-hearted innkeeper. Think of the times you were there, really there, for a child, a partner, a friend, even a stranger. Think of how precious those times were. When we allow the love that lives in our hearts to express itself, we are a blessing to those around us and a blessing to ourselves.

One of the great blessings of life in our Unitarian Universalist congregations is that here we learn to give and receive posada. We are there for one another. Together, we spread the warmth of compassion.

In this busy holiday time, the powerful religious lessons of Las Posadas transcend cultural boundaries. May we take time to see the need around us. May we open our hearts. May we give and receive shelter. Every act of kindness is offering a posada.

May this be a time rich in blessings and filled with joy.

Faithfully,

Peter Morales}} 

Rev. Morales comes across as human to me. The Universal House of Justice looks like it is a giant computer, with no soul. Who benefits from that?}}}

We Unitarian Universalists KNOW who are leaders are and what they truly stand for! 

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

Ruhi said

Is that all you got...that and a quote from Baha'i scripture that has nothing to do with the issue at hand?

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect 

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

Now we move forward

"Your new name does not fit with the rest of your previous names Wahid jaan, but your attitude remains the same.  Your colors are showing and it is a shame.  Read your own post, it is full of hatred and obscene language."

Wahid jaan? Not sure who you mean, unless you mean this guy: //www.facebook.com/Vasspaan I do know him and consider him a friend, no need to deny that.

And you are lying about me again. You have no concept of what "hatred and obscene language" really is. I wonder if white racists thought Martin Luther King Jr was being hateful and obscene in fighting their bigotry and for the benefit of all who want to be treated as equals. I am merely fighting for truth and ethical consistency, something you should appreciate if your religion was truly the ideal one its propaganda depicts it as.

"I do not call you stupid, but you call me that because there is a difference in opinion between you and the members of The Faith."

Wrong again. A mere difference of opinion is not stupidity. Using fallacious arguments and unfounded claims in response to my criticism is. 

You should know who your leaders are because you never know what they may be doing in secret to scam you. Here is a specific example from 2007:

//bahai-digest.blogspot.com/2007/05/financial-scandal-rocks-italian-bahai.html

{{{Recently the small Italian Baha’i community was shocked to learn that one of its most prominent, long-serving and active members, the former General Secretary of the NSA: Franco Ceccherini, had been ousted from the NSA and formally charged for embezzlement and fraud in the amount of 360,000 Euros.

Ceccherini allegedly stole the money over the lengthy period of time that he served at the highest levels of the Baha’i community in Italy. It appears that he embezzled funds from 1992 until 2006 by fraudulently producing invoices, letters and documents and then pocketing the funds he received for them. Throughout the more than 14 years that Ceccherini served in the institutions, he alternated between high level positions: sometimes he served as the General Secretary of the NSA of Italy, while other times he served as the Head of the Office of the Secretariat - which included several other individuals employed by the NSA. And at times Ceccherini served as both General Secretary and as Head of the Office of the Secretariat.

Through the uninterrupted access granted to him by these positions, Ceccherini was able to allegedly perpetrate this scheme for almost 15 years. It is still a mystery how the Treasurer could not detect such a large and prolonged fraud. Nor is it known what, if any, control measures were circumvented by italian NSA. As it stands now, neither the Treasurer, any of the other NSA members nor any employees of the NSA have been charged.

Consequences of this tragedy are many. For one, the NSA of Italy has been thrown into total chaos. It has had to deal with an extensive internal investigation and financial audit. Theis is a serious financial blow to the community as funds which should have been paid to the government for more than a decade now need to be paid in lump sum. Thankfully the government has agreed that the NSA as an institution was not perpetrating the fraud and agreed to dismiss 90,000 Euros in interest and fines they had levied. Which means that the NSA has to pay back 275,000 Euros. The House of Justice has loaned the Italian NSA 200,000 Euros to buffer the blow to their annual budget. This loan will have to be repaid to the House in installments over time but the NSA will still have to make a lump sum payment of 75,000 Euros. A significant chunk of change for a community the size of Italy.}}}

You regard the people in UHJ as powerful, I say they are not.  It is not my "opinion" it is a fact.  They, individually have no power whatsoever and it is not up for argument.

A legislative body that has the power to make laws for a nation may be composed of hundreds of indviduals who have no power except when assembled as that body....but barring women from membership from such a body is still wrong, and doing so while claiming to believe in the equality of men and women is even more wrong.

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

Dale,I say it's a bull, you are insisting on milking it !

O SON OF DUST! Verily I say unto thee: Of all men the most negligent is he that disputeth idly and seeketh to advance himself over his brother. Say, O brethren! Let deeds, not words, be your adorning.Hidden words of Baha'u'llah

Your new name

Your new name does not fit with the rest of your previous names Wahid jaan, but your attitude remains the same.  Your colors are showing and it is a shame.  Read your own post, it is full of hatred and obscene language.  I do not call you stupid, but you call me that because there is a difference in opinion between you and the members of The Faith.  No one, and I mean no one is interested in you coming back to The Faith.  Frankly, none of us give a flying rat's behind whether you're a Baha'is or not.  A person's choice of religion is theirs alone.  Within the Baha'i Faith the choice of religion is not even a person's espouse's business, much less some other person sitting somewhere across the globe declaring themselves the rescuer of the humanity aginst this "evil Faith".  Go be happy with what you want to do.

 You regard the people in UHJ as powerful, I say they are not.  It is not my "opinion" it is a fact.  They, individually have no power whatsoever and it is not up for argument.  Your arguments are like someone sitting there saying the sky is green and everyone else is wrong, because it is green.  The fact that the members are there to serve The Faith is a fact, it is not an assumption.  I am not aware of any member of the UHJ getting special treatment or a huge retirement fund or a trust fund for the children, etc.  If you are aware, I would appreciate it if you would present the proof, inuendo which you are a master of, has no worth here.

The fact that we do not know every single member of the UHJ has nothing to do with their capacity to serve the Faith.  The thing that you do not understand now, and never did in the past, is that the body serves The Faith, the members are inconsequential.  They are not "leaders" of The Faith.  The idea of UHJ and not its memebes ruling The Faith is foreign to you as it is to all others who are not familiar with selflessness and sacrifice and no one is surprised about that.  

As I am not interested in arguing with you about things that are not worth talking about, I will end this now.  Be happy whereever you are, empty your heart from hate and live a happy life.  Your false messages about The Faith reaches no one, nobody cares what you think, you might as well get used to it, and occupy your time with other things that make you truly happy.

Let me get this straight, amigo19

You think it acceptable to merely advance the status of women, but not make them equal to men in either Islam or the Baha'i Faith, yet still proclaim the equality of men and women as an ideal? REALLY?! You like being lied to and then lying to others???

In regars to the identity of the person who is trying to stir up hatred, I am sure he is well known to everybody on this site,just follow his threads and you will know who he is!

Cut the innuendo! If objective readers want to know more about me, they can just look here:

//dalehusband.wordpress.com/about-the-author/

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

In the Baha'i Faith a lot of

In the Baha'i Faith a lot of emphasis has been put on the education of women, Baha'i Faith reitrates that if one has 2 children ; one daughter and one son and circumtancially is able to provide education for only one of his children, that is to say he only can send one of them to school, the daughter has the priority,as girls will become mothers and mothers are the first educators,thus the next generations will be more prepared.
The issue that Mr. Stavakoly points out is very clear indeed.
Now lets go back to Saui Arabia 1400 years ago where barbaric arabs would bury their first child,were it a daughter, in these circostances Hazrte Muhammad brought the law that teaches the believers that 2 women are equal to one man , at its setting, it must have been a perfect law.
In regars to the identity of the person who is trying to stir up hatred, I am sure he is well known to everybody on this site,just follow his threads and you will know who he is!

Answering stavackoli

"Staying on the logical side of things and trying not to get upset with the writer of this blog, whose identity is obvious to a lot of us on this site,"

Of course it's obvious! I have never made a secret of it.

"Within the Baha'i Faith, as the author here correctly points out, there is only one place where the appearance of inequality exists and that is within the Universal House of Justice's member election process."

Inequality in ONE place means exactly that, INEQUALITY. How dishonest can you be to claim otherwise?!

"The simple fact is, the members of this body, individually, have no rights that are any greater than a regular member of the Faith, say myself for example.  The body of the House is infallible through the direction given to it by God, when it is in session; once out of session, all members are the same as the rest of us."

This is completely irrelevant. The fact remains that women cannot be elected to the Universal House of Justice. They can serve under men but not share power with men. Until they actually share power with or are able to get the same power as men have always had, there is no equality between men and women, period.

"As a matter of fact, many Baha'is don't even know them, no one seems interested in who they are."

I do not believe that. And even if true, that is not a good thing. If you don't know who your own leaders are, how can you trust them? It seems you are actually helping me destroy the credibility of your Faith! 

"Most importantly, they are there to serve The Faith, not the other way around.  They do not get anything out of this other than hard work, sometimes away from their family, and mostly serving without much rest."

This is an assumption on your part, not a fact, and thus it can be dismissed as such.

"Having said this, no one within The Faith, knows why the duty has been removed from women (the duty, not the privilege), maybe they are exempt because their job as mothers of the family is more important, maybe there is a hundred other reasons, I am not sure; I know we do not know the answer."

So you admit to being ignorant about the issue? How can you tolerate this?

"But, to say because of this one anomaly, The Faith is lying about the equality of men and women, has nothing at its core other than hatred and animosity for The Faith."

I hate lies and hypocrisy everywhere, not just in the Baha'i Faith. If the lies and hypocrisy in the Faith ended, I would respect it once more.

"Why not look at the other principles of The Faith?  Why should we get hung up on one little thing and try to flame the fires of hatred for the entire Faith?  Do you walk into a house and look at one brick and say, this brick is broken, the house is condemned?"  

A more proper analogy is that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. A broken chain is a useless one. An outright lie found in a religion make the whole religion questionable. The rest of that quote is also assumptions about me that are unfounded. There is indeed a lot to criticise about the Baha'i Faith, not just its sexism:

//dalehusband.wordpress.com/category/religion/bahai-faith/

I have to admit that if I had not left the Faith in 2005, the sheer stupidity of arguments like those of stavackoli and Roozbeh_Gilani would probably have caused me to leave it by now.

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

Equality, what does it mean

Staying on the logical side of things and trying not to get upset with the writer of this blog, whose identity is obvious to a lot of us on this site, I will say a few words about the misconception of what is to be considered equality of men and women in society and what is not.  Within the Baha'i Faith, as the author here correctly points out, there is only one place where the appearance of inequality exists and that is within the Universal House of Justice's member election process.  The simple fact is, the members of this body, individually, have no rights that are any greater than a regular member of the Faith, say myself for example.  The body of the House is infallible through the direction given to it by God, when it is in session; once out of session, all members are the same as the rest of us. As a matter of fact, many Baha'is don't even know them, no one seems interested in who they are. They are elected by delegates that are elected by us (a two-tier election process).  Most importantly, they are there to serve The Faith, not the other way around.  They do not get anything out of this other than hard work, sometimes away from their family, and mostly serving without much rest.  

Having said this, no one within The Faith, knows why the duty has been removed from women (the duty, not the privilege), maybe they are exempt because their job as mothers of the family is more important, maybe there is a hundred other reasons, I am not sure; I know we do not know the answer.  But, to say because of this one anomaly, The Faith is lying about the equality of men and women, has nothing at its core other than hatred and animosity for The Faith. Why not look at the role women within The Faith in every other aspect of it?  Why not look at the other principles of The Faith?  Why should we get hung up on one little thing and try to flame the fires of hatred for the entire Faith?  Do you walk into a house and look at one brick and say, this brick is broken, the house is condemned?  

This site is no more a supporter of this Faith than it is a supporter of your blog, yours and many others with similar intent have existed on this blog.  Just because a non-Baha'i's film (Allame Zadeh, much like Hoveyda or Shirin Ebadi is not a Baha'i, just because someone defends the rights of a group of defenseless people doesn't mean he believes in their Faith or their cause) is advertised on this site does not mean The Faith agrees with the contents of this site or whomever writes blogs on it.

Click

//khabarnavard.blogspot.ro/2012/07/blog-post_...

Enough said.

Our Agenda

Disclosure

I am in no way supporting CIM and his agenda or any other poster in this thread. I only belive that we should be able to discuss any subject.

potently serious

The issue is much more serious - see: Baha'is, the Bomb, & Censorship: One Individual's Criticism

Even certain questions say a lot: 

"by Anonymous Observer on Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:47 AMPDT 
Why do they even bring in anyone from Iran on these shows?"

*  Free speech

*  And because the multitude of organizations that purport to speak on behalf of Iranians outside of the country have foreign backers and special interest groups driving them that are not genuinely interested in Iran, but their own interests. 

You will notice the linked story is buried on this site, but through the site and the individuals that champion the faith allowing that to happen they are delegitimizing their own cause.  Pay special attention to the link: it is potently serious.

Very Interesting Debate

This is a very interesting debate here. The questions is whether there is ANY subject that is too "sacred", "taboo" and "politically incorrect" to be debated by intellentuals. I think to say yes to this as Rouzbeh has done is nothing but stepping in a path of repression.

The question here is not whether the Bahai's have been oppressed and unjustly treated since their inception, because they have. The question is not whether they deserve to be equal citizens in Iran, because they do. The quesiton is not whether the Islamic Rapist Regime in Iran is the most criminal regime on earth, because they are. The question is not whether the Bahai's should have the right to practice their religion the way they want, because they should. The question is not whether the Bahais should be respected, because they should

The question is whether their religion trully supports gender equality. I think having an intellectual discussion about this is not only OK but necessary. 

I would add that a more important discussion would be whether any unjustly opressed group should get a free ticket from intectual analysis and debate. Should the political groups with members tortured in prison and killed by the rapist regime be immune to critical analysis of their ideas. I would say absolutely not. There should be nothing sacred when it comes to intellectual debate and analysis. 

Roozbeh_Gilani is still lying

"There is only SHAME, and absolutely  no "honor" in explicitly or implicitly defending this."

There is also no honor is lying about anyone or ignoring the actual facts when they make you uncomfortable. You are a coward, Roozbeh_Gilani. You have no evidence against me, and that's obvious!

Christians were persecuted by the Roman authorities, but that does not mean we should never criticize Christianity, especially since Christians, after taking over the Roman Empire, became persecutors themselves.

And I'm not about to let Baha'is become persecutors of anyone centuries from now! Lies are lies, and as a matter of honor, they must be exposed!

SO GET OFF THE "PERSECUTION" RED HERRING!

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

No support for these types of claims Roozbeh_Gilani

If you had facts people worked for any government, you would provide them.  But it appears it is a convenient thing for you to say to try to hide false claims you make against individuals who don't share your point of view.  

What facts are there to support your claim that, "supporting comments [on this blog] on various religious, ethnic and political groups of Iranian people ... have all one common ... origin;Islamic republic's Ministry of Intelligence, SAVAMA"?

"honorable sceptic"!

 There is only SHAME, and absolutely  no "honor" in explicitly or implicitly defending this.

You are fooling no one. Both of you, just too transparent.

Over and out of this "blog" before the stench of SAVAMA knock me completely out....

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

.

 .

Roozbeh_Gilani

You should not defend the Baha'i Faith by lying about its opponents here in the United States. Your claim is false, period.

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

No support for these types of claims Roozbeh_Gilani

What facts are there to support your claim that, "supporting comments [on this blog] on various religious, ethnic and political groups of Iranian people ... have all one common ... origin;Islamic republic's Ministry of Intelligence, SAVAMA"?

We check those types of things out: Where is the proof for your claim?   

Islamic Regime's Ministry of Intelligence (SAVAMA)

The  kind of sick attacks and suppporting comments on various religious, ethnic and political groups of Iranian people, that this site seem to be awash with these days, as exemplified by this pathetic "blog", have all one common cess pool of an origin;

Islamic republic's Ministry of Intelligence, SAVAMA. 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

It's a tactic to silence people - your speech is your right

"by Dale_Husband on Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:03 AM PDT  I cannot be called an agent or ally of the Iranian state."

Reply

People like you only pour oil in the IR's fire against bahais. Waht are you trying to say or prove? 

If the corrupted followers of religion that is honestly sexist (like Islam), persecute the followers of a religion that is also sexist but claims not to be, does that mean we should ignore the hypocrisy of the other religion? Does that mean the persecution is my fault when I point out the hypocrisy? Of course not! I oppose ALL sexism, even in Islam, so I cannot be called an agent or ally of the Iranian state.

Reform the Baha'i Faith and end the hypocrisy, and the problem is solved. Fail to do so and it will never be respected by skeptics like myself.

As a non-theist, I would also be subject to persecution by Islamic governments. And as a matter or principle, I would stand up to them just as I would any Baha'i governments in the future.

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

loyalty

there r more black, east indian.... bahais in the world than few bahais from Iranian origin!! however those bahais who live in Iran or travel there should make it clear, in an imaginary soccer game between Iran and occupying forces, who would bahais support??

I wear an Omega watch