www.facebook.com/iransecularii

And my favourite:

"Religion is the opium of the masses."

Karl Marx.

"The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing.."

In our solar system, the center of illumination is the sun itself. Through the will of God this central luminary is the one source of the existence and development of all phenomenal things....

Without this quickening impulse there would be no growth of tree or vegetation, neither would the existence of animal or human being be possible; in fact no forms of created life would be manifest upon the earth. 

Likewise in the spiritual realm of intelligence and idealism, there must be a center of illumination, and that center is the everlasting, ever-shining Sun, the Word of God....This Sun of Reality, this center of effulgences is the prophet or Manifestation of God. 

Just as the phenomenal sun shines upon the material world producing life and growth, likewise the spiritual or prophetic Sun confers illumination upon the human world of thought and intelligence, and unless it rose upon the horizon of human existence the kingdom of man would become dark and extinguished.

Abdul-Baha, Bahai World Faith pp 254-255

Just as the earth attracts everything to the centre of gravity, and every object thrown upward into space will come down, so also material ideas and worldly thoughts attract man to the centre of self. 

Anger, passion, ignorance, prejudice, greed, envy, covetousness, jealousy and suspicion prevent man from ascending to the realms of holiness, imprisoning him in the claws of self and the cage of egotism.  

The physical man, unassisted by the divine power, trying to escape from one of these invisible enemies, will unconsciously fall into hands of another. No sooner does he attempt to soar upward than the density of the love of self, like the power of gravity, draws him to the centre of the earth. The only power that is capable of delivering man from this captivity is the power of the Holy Spirit.

.  (’Abdu’l-Bahá, Bahá’í Scriptures, p. 241.)

The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it . . . Verily I say, the world is like the vapour in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot “fatten nor appease his hunger.” (Bahá’u'lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u'lláh, pp. 328-329.)

The meeting of God and Science

God is the appointment Science should forever postpone but never cancel.

Dear Farah

One can not define love or God with the LINEAR thinking (logic and reason), just as Rumi, Hafiz , Khayyam, Ensitein,....didn't

Science accepts what can be proven to exist and at the same time unlike what some think, it does not deny what it does not know.

Science may try to define love but it does not deny its existence

Science may be unable to prove existence of God but can not deny its existence

Science also accepts that everything is definable although may not have all the definitions but it SEEKS to find them...

You can "see" or "smell" a rose and acknowledge its beauty or bleed and "feel" pain by "touch"ing its corn. Those are perceptions that we as human have while a deer may only see it as a food.

The point I am making is that, "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder, so is beauty of love that you refer to

but the attraction, its gravity , the selflessness, the commitment, the feelings, are all definable , yet its beauty or pain depends on the "observer"...

Today there are discussions in Physics that gravity may only be a perception! just as once we thought earth is flat, as once we were trapped in newtonian thinking, concept of gravity may somday soon be proven to be nothing but a perception.

Such "scientific" discoveries can alter many "presumed" concepts and re-define "logically and reasonable" what we always "reasonably" presumed as a fact and may even somday change the way we take off from our tiny planet or from where we are standing.

The point is what we can not define is part of it all and it is all reasonable! and even love is and it is all beautiful!

Only thing that is "ugly" is hate because that is not love.

God too can be beautiful or ugly depending on us. Religion defines God as both - as needed! 

Love and Science

Dear David

In your last comment you stated your opinion on the question of love and science. Unless you offer a new definition for love or science, the existing definitions suggest that "love" is irrational and as a matter of rule has nothing to do with reason (that's the whole beauty of it). On the other hand, "science" is all about. reason and rationality. These two cannot mix with each other as is witnessed by such thinkers as Hafiz and Rumi.

You comments on Ebadi are right on the money.

Regards

FR

Question of God

Question of God (or lack of) is not something that science has an opinion on. It also depends on the definition.

But religion and many of the beliefs and stories that goes with it are easily discounted by proven scientific methods.

Many confuse God with religion.

Religions are questionable by its own creator: Man

I do not see any contrast between love and science or the concept of God and love.

Love, physics , thermodyamicsis,...... are all parts of the same balancing force that binds it all together...Many call it God.

Religion is in the BUSINESS of packaging and $ELLING God at a cost , capitalizing on the unknown , our fears, and our death.

Some sell religion asking you to think of the galaxy (unknown) , some by giving you packaged answers about death and some used to sell it when there was a thundar storm or when they were crucifying those who said earth is not flat. Alter of religion feeds on the human sacrifice : with blood, belongings or by submission to the religious salesmen.

Science is secular, religion is not.

The most respected religious leader , dali lama recently said , that human beings are by nature secular... something to ponder upon

(while Shirin Ebadi at the same time tried to sell him the concept of democracy!)

An attorney who by nature must be secular , selling religion and a religious leader , religious by nature, acknowleging secularism.

Mrs. Ebadi should read some Rumi in Persian! or at presence of Dali Lam should LISTEN more...

In short

Science is in contrast with Love. Religion is in competition with Love. Both of them are deficient in Love.

FR

Scientists Versus Theologists

Looking at the starry sky on a clear night raises a great question: When and where did they come from? What is their origin and where is their end? Throughout the history of mankind there was and still is the question of who brilliantly created this complex universe: God, or the atoms that form all materials. Both scientists and clerics agree on the complexities associated with nature. Each would concentrate on only one of the forms — the scientists on atoms and religious figures on God. There is no doubt that technology is advancing exponentially to make our standard of living higher; however, if used improperly it can be destructive. Human selfishness and greed could destroy or completely annihilate the human race, temporarily throwing the orderly arrangement of things off balance, but the universe will soon restore itself back into harmony. While churchmen believe life was given by god in the form of Adam and Eve, scientists like to look at life differently, describing it as the result of the interaction of atoms and molecules that generated life in a suitable environment. Scientists believe when prehistoric meteors impacted earth’s oceans, balls of iron and carbon shot into bubbles of water and ammonia and triggered the evolution of life. Researchers can construct a DNA molecule to any specification, and in theory add this DNA to a test-tube of substances such as amino acids, fats and sugars to create life. Scientists are very close to creating completely new living organisms from the raw chemical building blocks of life. The creation of man-made microbes from a mixture of molecules could reveal how life first evolved on Earth. The idea of initiating life from a combination of chemicals may sound far-fetched, but advances in genetics and computational biology, using quantum mechanics and molecular dynamics, can pave the road to understanding life. Religious authorities look at life as it is given by god and will be taken by god. As always, they set themselves up as the path to god, yet many scientists have become equally rigid in their theoretical approach to defining the universe and creation. Scientists argue that matter alone formed the basis of our universe. Even if there is a god, it must also be made of atoms and molecules available in our universe.
   
With the development of the Hubble telescope, Spitzer Space Telescope, and The James Webb Space Telescope (an infrared telescope that will be launched in 2014 and it will be successor to the current Hubble Space Telescope), scientists are able to see more of what lies in space. The images produced by the telescope provide a view of the universe that surpasses that of ground-based telescopes used by scientists in the past. Its presence in our earth's orbit can shed light on many of the great mysteries of space, such as the age of the universe, search for the existence of dark matter, the consumption of a galaxy by a larger galaxy, and the accurately determining the rate of expansion of the universe. The space telescope has the ability to capture images of powerful explosions of energy that have occurred in far-distant galaxies when massive stars collapse. The better the technology, the better our ability to probe and understand the mystery of our universe.                                      
 
Despite these advances in science, we are still faced with uncertainty as to the origins of our universe. From a scientific perspective, we need to ask serious questions about: (i) What was it at the beginning? (ii) What is empty space with nothing in it? (iii) How was the universe created? (iv) Why did it come into being? (v) Can God actually arrive in the universe through nothingness as religion says? (vi) How do you define the beginning? For theologists, the answer is easy and simple: this is all the work of god. Scientists, on the other hand, have a long way to go.

Or our knowledge and thinking is so limited that we cannot....

But who create these huge worlds? Billion of light years if we travel with the speed of light, it takes billions of years? We cannot understand, because our thinking is limited. Who design all these creatures? All of them came by themselves or by accidents? There is something behind it, that our weak limited thinking and knowledge cannot understand now and make stories about them. In reality we do not know. if Jesus did all these manifest actions, why all people did not believe in Him? Or the 750 bullet which shoot at Bab, why He did not die? Why all Tabriz people did not accept Him? I think there is a power behind this, but we or I cannot feel it or estimate it? But the simple way is we should love each other , help each other and push each other for a better life and general humanity Love. May be one day we can find it and we can answer all our questions. In Persian they say, the Human being can reach the path of God and or can see the God one day, so look how magnificent is the Human being value. The only way that we can now accept ; it respect each other , love each other and work together and not against each other, the energy that we waste for hate, can use for knowledge and education.

?خداشناسان چه مهارتی دارند که دانشمندان ندارند

David Jaan, "Daneshmandan" they don't know how to Systematically fool people, they deal with proven facts.

 «علم مرگ ادیان را رقم مى زند.» اسکار وایلد

Great Blog, Thanks!

تضاد؛ سازش یا تطابق علم و دین

 * بوته آتشی که با حضرت موسی تکلم نمود
* کبوتری که بر حضرت مسیح وارد شد
* معراج حضرت محمد به سموات
* حضرت مسیح و قیام آنحضرت بعد از سه روز از شهادتشان
* شفا بیماران و زنده نمودن اموات توسط حضرت مسیح
* غذا دادن حضرت مسیح به انبوهی از جمعیت
* تجزیه دریای سرخ برای عبور حضرت موسی و پیروان آنحضرت

بعضی را باور بر آن است که چون از نظر علمی قادر به توجیه هیچیک از موارد بالا نیستیم، سازش علم و دین از محالات است.
دیدگاه دیانت بهائی نقطه مقابل است، یعنی امر بهائی از سازش علم و دین نیز فراتر رفته و تطابق علم و دین را شعار خود قرار داده است. به بیان دیگر، اگر تعالیم مظاهر حق متضاد با علم باشد جنبه خرافات و اوهام می یابد و قابل اعتنا نیست.

اگر چنین است؛ موارد بالا را چگونه میتوان از نظر علمی توجیه نمود؟

حضرت عبدالبهاء در کتاب مفاوضات میفرمایند که معلومات انسانی دو قسم است: معلومات محسوسه و معلومات معقوله و یا به عبارتی دیگر محسوسات و معقولات. محسوسات آن است که مثلا چشم و یا گوش و یا شامه و یا ذائقه و یا لامسه ادراک نماید. بعبارت دیگر آنچه انسان ببیند و یا بشنود و یا ببوید و یا بچشد و یا لمس نماید. قسم دیگر معقولات است یعنی "حقائقی که صورت خارجیه ندارد و مکان ندارد و غیر محسوسه است". مثلا عقل از معقولات است و یا محبت یا قوه مغناطیس و حتی روح انسانی.یعنی آنچه چشم نبیند گوش نشنود انسان نبوید نچشد و یا لمس نکند و در این عالم خاکی جز محسوسات نیست.
برای توضیح این مسائل انسان مجبور است به آنها قمیص یا پیراهن محسوسات بپوشاند تا قادر به درک آنها گردد. مثلا میگوئیم دلم تنگ شد و حال آنکه تنگی و گشایش دل و قلب حاصل نمیگردد بلکه این کیفیتی است که برای توضیح و ادراک به این صورت بیان شده است.
آیا میتوان چنین تصور کرد که موارد بالا حقائق و یا کیفیات معقوله بوده و مظاهر الهیه جهت ادراک بشر آنها را با پیراهن محسوسات بیان کرده اند؟ مثلا منظور از شفا بیماران و زنده نمودن مردگان توسط حضرت مسیح، بیماران و مردگان روحانی بوده است که بواسطه قبول و ادراک پیام جدید روح تازه یافتند. . یا مثلا قیام حضرت مسیح بعد از سه روز، قیام جسمانی آنحضرت نبوده است و مقصود کمالات و تعالیم و دیانت آن حضرت است که بعد از شهادت حضرت مسیح مدت سه روز بدلیل اضطراب و آشفتگی حواریون حکم مفقود داشت و جسم بی جان شده بود و بعد از سه روز بواسطه قیام حواریون آن کمالات و تعالیم دوباره جلوه گر شد و جسم بیجان جان تازه یافت. بعبارت دیگر یک حقیقت معقوله جهت توضیح در پیراهن محسوسات اظهار شده تا قابل درک شود.
بر همین اساس معراج حضرت محمد، بوته آتش حضرت موسی، تغذیه جمعیت انیوه توسط حضرت مسیح، دو قسمت شدن دریای احمر و حضرت موسی و دهها مطلب دیگر حقائق روحانی و بالنتیجه حقائق معقوله ای است که برای درک بشر درپیراهن محسوسات بیان شده است.
دین و علم در راستای آسایش و رفاه بشر گام بر میدارند. هر دو مؤسس مدنیت های مختلف و هر دو مسبب جهش های شگفت انگیز تمدن بشری بوده اند.

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