Faramarz's Latest Rambling

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KouroshS jan

thanks for that. am relieved that we can keep a cool tone here :)

one simple distinction exists between the two categories of horror we are discussing: the nazi concentration camps were not about subjugation or torture. they were about annihilation. most who died did so out of hard labour. they were literally made to slave until starvation and death. a large number were also gassed to death, especially later on. a little known fact is that the nazis treated communists even worse than jews. jews as a people (or 'race') and communists as an ideology together with gypsies and the handicapped were to be exterminated. like insects.

iran and US jails are not about that. they are designed to subjugate and dominate, but not to annihilate.

Niloufar parsi

I meant to post a reply to you much earlier, but frankly (please don't laugh) lately i have been trying to keep up with so many blogs, because there were just so many interesting arguments  being brought up, that for a while i could not figure out which blog was it that you and I were having this discussion, until a few minutes ago. :)

I don't see why you fail to see the "basic" similarities? For one thing, there is so much going behind the scenes Both in US and IRI that you and I and the rest of the world won't hear about, Until long after the fact and Even that comes in bits and peaces through reports via various Human rights groups. . Do you think what the world saw in abu gharib should be taken with a grain of salt? Do you seriously not believe that many of these torture technques and strategies have their roots in Trainings and methods employed by the nazis and all other such dictatorships?

I am keeping it cool. Perhaps it is you who should give this yet another look:)

KouroshS

you and i see eye to eye more often than not. but in this case, there is something clearly amiss, and the more i try to explain my position, the more emotional this whole debate may get. so please keep cool and consider:

now you are saying that the experience of prisoners in evin, abu gharaib and nazi concentration camps can be described as similar or comparable. this all started with someone comparing the IRI to the nazis. now we are in a place where you are comparing US, IRI and Nazi practices, saying that they are basically similar and comparable. is this really your position?

i can't put either the US or the IRI in the same category as the Nazis. But i have already said that IRI and US jails are comparable. this is yet another reason why one cannot support a US attack on Iran (though a far less pertinent one that what i have already described in terms of loss of innocent lives).

Peace

shepesh jan

I know:)

KouroshS

But it is the reason that people are in prisons that is the main issue. On top of this they are tortured and allegedly raped, no due process ... all of these things are abuse of Human Rights.

Np

Niloufar

So  Are you telling me that those prisoners in abu gharib lived a luxury life? Did they really have it better than those in concentration camps? No matter how experienced you are on this subject, there is no way that i buy this absurd assertion that somehow the IRI prison's maintain a higher standards than That of the nazis.

kharmagas

I did not know you changed your name to Sheeshaki.
Mobarake inshalah.

I wish thatyou at least kept the "khar" part.

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whatever

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shepesh

you could be accused of holocaust denial because of the way you callously disregard the utter horror meted out to jews by the nazis. to compare the IRI to the nazis is actually to downgrade nazi atrocities against the jews. there is no holocaust going on in iran.

try and not get personal with me based on our political differences. this is a basic requirement of democratic behaviour.

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Shepesh

that is a nasty bite you got, but still only a shepesh bite.

looks like you are the one doing the accusing here. check your own habits first. 

noboldy will be saddened if the regime falls, but have you checked the title of this blog? it has the word attack in it. and i asked FF at least 3 times to clarify what he meant but he refused to answer.

as for your ramblings about hangings, i can't figure what on earth you are saying. how did u make a link between that and concentration camps?

just because you hate the IRI it does not mean that what they are doing is similar to what the nazis did. 

and how on earth you came out with the idea of bahais being a race? cool down shepesh.

Noulifar Khanoom

You have a habit of accusing people of the most unpleasant things. It is an unattractive characteristic that you have displayed over and over again in various blogs.

First of all FF, and SK especially, did not say a violent military campaign is the answer. So stop being dishonest. What they have both said is that they do not want war but will not be saddened if the regime falls.

They were the only people who came out without being squeezed to give their opinions. you were not forthcoming with your position. So to call them cowards is rather spiteful.

, you should have put your money where your mouth is and actually engaged in one rather than put your tail between your legs

Really? How do you know other people's positions to make judgements like that?

this is not a personal attack against you or anyone else. i am just telling you what your apparent position sounds like to me.

Always accusing others then saying ofcourse you did not mean it. Like when you accused someone on another blog of having a drinking problem? And worse? Very unpleasant.

You also try to get round the argument with sophistry - that this is a question of the method of execution (concentration camp versus hanging). Just because you have visited a concentration camp does not mean it is OK to hang people because of race or religion.

In the Holocaust Jews were marched into gas chambers and executed like cattle. They were not killed in the context of war, but murdered. The intent was not strategic or tactical, but hatred. Khamenei wants to investigate Bahais and has earmarked them as special cases. Many have already been executed by hanging. They are being discriminated as a race. It is the same evil of discrimination and threat of genocide that has been recognised throughout the world. For you to compare prisons are rediculous and show that you do not understand the subject matter of "hate" encouraged by IRI administration.

Ms. Parsi, IraN not IraQ

 
This blog is about Iran (temporarily called the IRI).  Not Iraq.  Please don't cloud up the discussion. 

I have written that I meant an armed conflict more than once.  Therefore I am not sure what part of my writing is unclear.

Additionally, I have explicitly written that I oppose war.

Having said that, there is NO WAY to remove IRI from power unless force is used.  I do support armed conflict between Iranians and the elements of the regime and I support any government which provides arms to the people of Iran.

KouroshS

no it can't. absolutely not. for the reasons i mentioned to SK before. you ever visited a concentration camp? i have. they were the lowest point of human depravity throughout history. the IRI jails compare more with the US ones like in abu gharaib, not like the nazis.

but we can agree to disagree.

FF khan

this is the central problem with your blog: you ask whether people would support an attack on the IRI by the US. When pushed, you do not confirm whether you mean a military attack on Iran. but it is hard to see what other type of attack there could be. Similar to what the US did to Iraq. they are still dying by the dozen every day, a full 6.5 years after the murderous campaign began.

Of course most of us would not support a military attack on Iran. you, however, will not actually say whether or not you would support a military attack against iran by the US to remove the IRI.

I think this is basically because you know that such a position by you or anyone else living comfortably somewhere else is utterly cowardly. if you or anyone else like SK really think that a violent military campaign is the answer, you should have put your money where your mouth is and actually engaged in one rather than put your tail between your legs (like we ALL did) and run away, and then ask Uncle Sam to go and murder a few hundred thousand iranians, like they have been doing in Iraq. it is rather a cowardly position.

this is not a personal attack against you or anyone else. i am just telling you what your apparent position sounds like to me.

FF, because of my line of work I studied the impact of the iraq war on iraqi refugees. i know the effect of what the americans have done on the iraqi civilian population because i was tasked with the job of writing a report on it.

FF, we don't know how many innocent iraqis have been murdered. it could be anywhere between 100,000 to 1,000,000 so far. those figures are disputed. and they would be. but we do know this: 5 million iraqis have been made homeless internally or as refugees. That is 1 in every 5 Iraqis. 1 million iraqi women have been widowed.  that makes around 2 million iraqi children without a father. 70% of all iraqi children have had little or no access to any education or health services for the better part of the past 6 years. outbreaks of cholera have been registered in several places. water and sanitation services are severely affected, as is access to drinking water. The Iraq of today is way behind the iraq of 40 years ago in terms of development.

how much more do i have to tell you for you to notice what kind of hell you are wishing on innocent iranians if you support an american attack on iran? i am sure you are now enjoying a safe and sound life wherever you live, and i would not wish anything less for you. and if you are not, pls don't get annoyed. many iranians are having a decent life outside iran.

for them to encourage a military attack on iran is rather hard to understand especially as we have seen exactly what that would mean per Afghanistan and Iraq - to put it incredibly mildly.

So, can you answer my question now?

do you or do you not support a military attack against iran by the US to remove the IRI?

I certainly don't.

Peace

Moffattesh is here!

Sag rafto, let go of Sheeshaki the Moffattesh (*)!

(*) //www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSdHlYUgjvo&feature...

Ms. Parsi

I am not going to go as far as our friend here and accuse you of supporting IRI's policies. I think you have to some extent proven that you do oppose this regime and the fundamental principles its based upon. Correct?:)

  the Nazi gas chambers, concentration camps, invasion of several countries, a world war, the death of around 40 MILLION PEOPLE as a result... these are things you would compare with the iranian regime of today.

This would actually be a valid comparison, but you have got to keep in mind the appropriate context of each of these events. The IRI is implementing its own fascistic tactics the way it sees fit, perhaps similar to the ways that many of the Latin american dictatorships conducted it. Our main focus should be to not let them get to the point where they can express their viciousness through millitaristic venues.

Also, wouldn't you say that the situation in their prisons can be compared to those concentration camps, albeit the modern version? The point is that there is torture going on in these facilities.

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Ms. Parsi MardomMazloom

I asked a question in my blog.  The answer is a simple sentence such as "I would side with the U.S." or "I would side with IRI".

No need for "safsateh" as they say in Farsi.

Regarding my religion or lack there of, I refer you to my numerous blogs within the past 3 years.  I am as anti organized religion as you can get; that is why I despise regimes such as IRI.

MardomMazloom, by your moronic responses you continue your quest to prove that not only you are a moron, but a coward.  People like you lack any kind of backbone and integrity.

SK

is FF a Bhai?

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SK

didn't meant to offend...one thing wrong with this whole line of argument is that a question about an attack against the iranian regime is being raised with the proviso that there won't actually be a war or even an attack! then you say that i am using circular arguments! well at least you called me clever :)

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SK

easy there. i can't stand the regime either, but i just don't think we are dealing with a hitler.

let's agree to disagree on this one then.

am still waiting for FF's response...

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SK

so the Nazi gas chambers, concentration camps, invasion of several countries, a world war, the death of around 40 MILLION PEOPLE as a result... these are things you would compare with the iranian regime of today?

there is one thing to engage in debate for fun, but are you not insulting a whole generation that was blown away by an utterly shocking, unfathomable calamity that ended with two nuclear bombs being dropped on civilians in 2 japanese cities?

all of this you think compares to the experience YOU have had with the IRI?

and because of this you would happily support yet another war? and you sound like you think you are being committed and courageous by stating it too. please reconsider.

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Fateh

did you know that: the two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.

You're an absolute proof of that. Bis#o'oor, people who disagree with you, we should be a lot, are not necessarily IRI agents.