"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth"

Thanks to all of you

Dear friends,

Thanks for the sympathy you showed for me. I am always grateful to you and to the other friends who are not here now but whose permanent support always encouraged me to stay here and defend my ideas.

I like you and I like this site, that's the main reason I haven't yet leave. I won't leave forever, but must stay out the site for a while. Staying here longer than this, will minimize my self esteem.

In the real life, I do avoid the waste of time with people who worth not my time. Here, unfortunately I have been drove to this way, little by little without being aware of it.

In the real life, I never  bargain with a baghal psychoanalyst, to justify that I don't have a volatile personality(BN). I never try to reason a man who takes off his pant on the street, taking his penis in hands to show it to anybody who try to approach for objecting to his behavior (DK). In the real life, I never give a rat to a little mind, to come and call me names and ridicule my loved ones as being the slaves(Ostaad). In the real life, I never allow a hypocrite person to takes advantage of the virtual character of a site, to pretend to be a nice and decent man, who always attack first and if the other party is stronger than him, then he will send him one of those tones of emails which start by " You are a true gentleman ....I have an utmost respect for you...etc, etc" only to  intimidate them and buy their silence for the future debates (Capt-)

In the real life, I use my time more efficiently. When I think I'm here debating on the vicious action of grown up children, while at the same minute there's a woman in distress, or a refugee from Rwanda, or a student from Iran, desperately needs my help.......I feel ashame of myself.

I have to acknowledge this responsibility that it was nobody's fault but only mine. I deliberately ignored my priorities and this is shameful. I have more to do in real life, than coming here and discuss for changing an old bankrupt philosophy which has its root in thousands years of cultural colonization.

I think Iran can live without me. She did it for the last thirty years and I am very proud of what she accomplished so far.I, on the other hand, belong to another society, another life.Long live with Iran.

Iranian.com will be blocked on all my PC's. I will come and see you anytime I have a free time in a library or else, but I won't take more time to discuss anything.

Hope we will meet again in the future, either in a better condition in this same site or somewhere else.

Thanks to all my good friends of IC.

PS: You may copy and keep this word of goodbye before it gets deleted in a few minutes :)

Public figures vs i.com figures!

Craig of course we're not public figures, we may like to think of ourselves as such but we're not worthy! 

When I said you followed the blog, I didn't mean RW's Farsi comments, I meant mine where I demanded an apology!  Didn't you notice all the smiley faces and exclamation points when I demanded one and tried to force it down his throat?! Well, that was my way of doing it in a "lighthearted way".  I didn't use the "public figure" tactic, I used the i.com tactic.  Then when people didn't notice the smiley faces and made it serious, it became serious.

So after all that has been said and done (hopefully you've read both sides enough to make you puke ;-) do you still think I handled it wrong? If so, I don't care, RW and MPD didn't apologize either so no harm no foul.  We just damaged our throats (fingers in this case ;-) for nothing.

Everything is sacred.

Souri jaan

I really hope that you do not leave IC. But I share your frustration that it seems a bunch of hooligans are always throwing personal insults at people trying to hold discussions, and that this is not addressed in IC. I think this has affected people in so much as that some do not want to comment anymore on News Items because they know they will receive personal attacks for their views. I have heard many voice their frustrations that intimidation is not addressed in IC. Discussions often turn into tit for tat insults, and I think if decent people leave IC , JJ will not be happy.

Souri and Anonymouse

Souri,

I think I lost too much time, energy here and so far not only I haven't achieved anything but am more and more frustrated.

Don't underestimate yourself! I think you accomplished a lot, and in a good way :)

Anonymouse, in the other blog you mentioned some high profile incidents of racism in regards to an apology being issued. I acknowledge the point, but in the case of Don Imus (I don't want to belabor this too much so I will only use one example) he was a very popular radio and TV show host. And his job was to express his opinions about current events, social matters, etc. So when he made a racist comment it was a very big deal. It made not just him look bad, it made the networks he worked for look bad, it made the advertizers look bad, and it made his viewers and listeners look bad. I totally understand the need for a public apology, because he wasn't speaking only for himself. And I don't even have a problem with extorting an apology out of a public figure! Or an employee for that matter, if there's an incident at the work place. But this is a mostly social environment and I would like to think that unless there's a history of ugliness with somebody that people would treat incidents as if they happened in person amongst friends and aquaintances. I don't know about you, but I have confronted friends about racist remarks and jokes they ahve told around me before. Sometimes successfully (as in they admitted they were wrong), sometimes not. My tactic has been to do it in lighthearted way just to let them know I didn't approve, and let them take it form there. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I'm just pointing out that imo demanding an apology from somebody who you think did you harm is not a good tactic. Your mileage may vary :)

I didn't quite get the Tyson example. Mike Tyson beat up women, and was convicted of rape. That's way beyond making a sexist comment.

And finally, you said I supported Red Wine with my comments. That wasn't my intent. I said in my first comment that I couldn't understand redwine's comment (I can't read farsi) and that I had tried to figure out what happned by reading this blog and the original blog. My conclusion was that you and the ladies had a valid point. My objection - if you want to call it that - was in how you handled it.

With that, I'll take my leave! I don't like to be so heavily outnumbered :)

We-can't-handle-the-truth! We're not adults, we're children!

Everything is sacred.

Anonymouse

No I'm not deleting comments or closing bolgs or asking for them to be closed. I come here assuming we are all adults and can handle the heat if there happens to be any. If it gets closed I'm telling everyone now and in advance, it has NOTHING to do with me.

JJ, people are here of their own free will. That same free will allows them to leave if they don't like what they read. I really don't think it is useful in the long run even,  to keep shutting down blogs.  And if you can explain to us your reasons, keeping in mind what I have said I'd appreciate it.

Anahid

Noted. Thanks for responding. But just incase you had me in mind with the general audience that comment was meant for, I believe I responded on the issue to a comment addressed to MPD on that same blog. If it is still there that is!

Holly are you going to delete this blog if JJ closes it?

Everything is sacred.

If I was MPD I'd delete that blog 2 unless he asked J 2 close it

Everything is sacred.

Ey baba JJ, in kara chie ke mikoni?

Stop closing blogs this way. What that means?

Give people the right to express and review their opinion. You don't  even give the chance to the them to come back on their views or clarify their point if they want to!

Those people will leave and don't come back anymore. Is that what you really want?

You know what?

I have still one basic point to make today and after that, I will be out of here. I think I lost too much time, energy here and so far not only I haven't achieved anything but am more and more frustrated.

Just one more comment and will leave your site to this gang to shit on it as much as they wish.

Why is that blog closed?! We're dealing with children here!

Everything is sacred.

Dear HollyUSA, I cannot make a comment on the other blog

Dear HollyYSA, you asked a question from me on the other blog and I cannot comment on that MPD blog, it seems to be closed.  So answer is no.  It was a general comment and I did not have specific person in mind.

OnlyIran

I absolutely agree with your last comment. Sometimes unfortunately ' Taa nabashad choob'e tar.....'

Niloufar

I definitely agree.  But changing attitudes can take generations.  Changing laws on the other hand can have an immediate effect. It actually has two effects, one of which is immediate. The first thing is that by changing the laws, one can bring immediate change and even forced equality to the society.  Take the Civil Rights Act in the U.S. for example.  It was enacted in the 1960’s when the U.S. culture was far from accommodating to race equality.  But it brought an immediate stop to institutionalized segregation and discrimination and helped, sometimes forcefully, to integrate communities.  By contrast, the U.S. culture is still lags far behind in the area of civil rights.  However, the second effect of passing laws is that it does have an effect on people’s acceptance of change.  Again, while acceptance of race equality in the U.S. is not where it should be in my opinion, the passage of the Civil Rights Act has had a tremendous effect in terms of pushing that acceptance forward by leaps and bounds.  The same thing goes for the women suffrage movement.  I guess it’s just human nature to adapt and “accept” what is “legal” as being the norm in society.  In short, implementing laws regarding equality accelerate societal acceptance of the same.     

Onlyiran

i am sure you would agree that those institutional problems didn't come out of thin air. in my vuew, they came from men and an abusive, sexist culture. this means that getting rid of those institutions requires more than just changing laws.

Peace

Shepesh

They were deleted minutes after they were posted. The evident selection criteria seemed to suggest that as usual it was very one sided in favor of the author and those who were bah baho chah chahing him . Since you've been here longer than I have and so know the nature of the alliances better, I'll let you be the judge.

Gatecrashing your lovely female party

i would like to know about another blog that has lost almost half of its last comments, the Bully one by bajenaghe naghi.

What happened to all those last comments? Were they deleted by the author of the blog or the moderator. Does that happen often?

Sorry for ruining the serious mood of this blog

the guys that Khaleh Moosheh mentioned remind me of Buns the rabbit!

Simin Behbahani

Simin Behbahani is the best example of how to stand your ground and what women have achieved.  I tried to search for an interview or something with or by Simin Behbahani when police tried to break their gathering and beat her with batons and she yelled back "nazan man madaram".  She is in her late 70s I think, She had a narrative of the event of that day and how people gathered and what happened next.

I couldn't find it but if you know what I'm talking about please post a link here.

This is the only link I found about that day.  Incidently 28 men were arrested that day too!  Way to go men!

//iranian.com/Bashi/2006/June/Women/index.html

Everything is sacred.

Anahid

Fair enough. I think the idea itself is good but there are many points that I would need to give more thought to and sleep on to decide. So I will do that :)

Anonymouse

Agreed!

Dear HollyUSA, it would be premature to name candidates

Dear HollyUSA, I would like to first get some names amongst ourselves who are interested to work toward establishing such a prize.  Once we have some of us involved in this effort, then we can have a committee who will establish the criteria for entering a person's name as a candidate for the prize.   So at this stage, more important than candidate names, it is to start the effort since it will not be difficult to get candidate names but organizing such an award and funding it will be more involved.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject of deleting blogs

I approve of deleting blogs if the owners want to.  In other blogsphere areas where they are much much more populated than i.com bloggers have the same rights and privileges that JJ has, except for their own blogs.  JJ has the rights for all blogs here.

So I'd have liked to have ownership of my own blogs and which comments to delete or keep.  I don't see it as censorship, I see it as ownership.  A painter doesn't allow others to paint his paintings, not a one to one example but just because this is written and people can comment it does not fall under "freedom of speech".

Besides deleting blogs is an option that JJ has provided us.  The only right we have here.  He doesn't allow you to delete articles, just blogs.  We've asked him to give us ownership of our own blogs when it comes to comments but he hasn't.  So when you have this one option you have no other choice.  I don't even want to question why MPD deleted his blog, because that is his right. 

Everything is sacred.

Men are

grown up little brats and are like wild rodents.

The reason they are not here is that they have all gone for coffee at Shadi's shop,

 //iranian.com/main/2009/oct/shadi-farsi

Anahid

Can you share some of the candidates' names?

Anonymouse

Just for the record, I personally disagree about MPD doing the right thing. I don't see the blogs as someone's personal property, especially after comments have been posted. This is a public forum and as a blogger we have a social responsibility to other bloggers. Again, there was no abuse, it just didn't seem to be going his way. Deletion of communicative material that is considered 'inconvenient' falls under the definition of censorship.

This is NOT an attack on MPD, just MY evaluation of what took place. If he wants to explain or comment, he is more than welcome to. I promise I won't delete the blog if his comments don't sit well with me.

The Real Problem

Here is the problem as I see it.  The problem in IRI’s Iran is not mainly the mentality of Iranian men.  Most, not all-but most, Iranian men are more open minded than their other Middle Eastern counterparts.  The problem in IRI’s Iran is institutional discrimination against women.  I wrote a blog on the subject some time ago.  Here it is://iranian.com/main/blog/onlyiran/abuse-iranian-women-under-iri-rule

When you have a system which threatens women by essentially not allowing them to ask for divorce out of fear of automatically losing custody of their children, when you forces them into a compulsory dress code and when you stone them to death for adultery, you have a discriminatory system. 

There is even institutional honor killing written into IRI’s “laws”.  Take the stoning punishment for example.  If married woman sleeps with a married man, the punishment for the woman is stoning.  However, the punishment for the man is lashes!!!  In addition to that being a glaring discriminatory punishment, the stoning of the woman is nothing but an honor killing.  The logicbehind it (which is derived from old Arabic tribal customs and incorporated into Islam) is presumably to defend the honor of the family or the “tribe” by showing the tribe’s disdain at the woman’s infidelity. 

Unless the IRI is gone, or these laws are somehow changed, the women in Iran will never have equal status to men, regardless of how many of them graduate from college or get jobs.

Let's establish award honoring Iranian women in Diaspora ...

I also command Anonymouse on his stand about RW 's comment. I think HollyUSA 's action about continuing the discussion shows that Iranian women both in Iran and in Diaspora are not waiting for men to fight for women's right but they appreciate it when they see it. 

 I also have a suggestion.  These days we see that many leaders of Iranian Women's movement such as "Shadi Sadr" are getting awards for their actions.  I believe (I maybe wrong) that Iranian women in Diaspora who have been fighting for equality of women in Iran have not been recognized for all their efforts.  I personally have some names in mind who are Iranian women who have done bulk of their activities ouside of Iran.  I would like to know who in this site is interested to get together (real or virual) and think of a prize that we writers on Iranian.com will establish to honor each year an Iranian woman in Diaspora who has been a leader in fight for women's rights in Iran.  Plaese let me know if you are interested. 

MPD did the right thing for deleting his blog, its his blog.

I don't have any issues with MPD deleting his blog.  I gave him my approval, not that it matters, in advance.  My demand for apology was when he tried to sweep it under the rug when the blog was alive!

As far as other gentlemen not commenting, no one is under any requirement to do anything here.  It just comes as natural.  I wasn't sure if I wanted to comment here either, but did it anyway. So don't read too much into these things.  Just make your points and peace and move on. 

Everything is sacred.

Anonymouse

by:

"I just wanted to thank you for speaking up for Iranian women."

I meant as opposed to the ones who keep quiet. Like Holly, I noticed it too. You seem to be the only gentleman on this site who's defending Iranian women and giving them credit for their role in civil disobedience.

IRANdokht