MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan

Interesting

@Abarmard

You want another way ?? let me tell you one, these mullahs and their gang must be eliminated from our country and no exception, you are missing one important point in your discussions and that is what about those thousands of Iranians who stood up for freedom and lost their life ?? what about those who shed their blood for our freedom ?? you want to give the BIGANEH another 200 years to adjust itself and let the effort of thousand brave Iranian go in vein ?? No, your way is not doing justice, it is just kham shodan dar moghabele ghodrate seyah. Our problem is that we have lost our grudge toward our enemy, we have chose to bare it rather than fight it and how we became like this, you should see it from our history, thats what Arab invasion did to us, we let Arabs kill thousands of our Iranian hamvatan and sell 10,000 of their kids in Madineh and yet we accepted them and did nothing, what we are doing now, we name our kids after those who committed to those crimes, we follow them blindly, we eat, we talk, we think, we dress as they wanted us to do, it is amazing that how could we forget about those 10,000 innocent Iranian kids?? I wont, as long as I live, I will do what ever I can to avange them and I will never ever forget or forgive them for what they did, therefore I will not bare with these animals for another 200 years hoping that they might one day let Iranian women choose their clothes.

@Tahirih

Do we really need to do some more investigation regarding the religion ?? I mean for many past year can you tell me one example that religion have done something for human other than making conflict ?? I mean which nation have you seen that got to anywhere with their religion ?? if religion in its history did anything other than war for human kind, please let me know. where ever you see there exist religion, nothing came out, what actually religion did was stopping ELM for over 2000 years, we could be 2000 years ahead in terms of discovery if there were no religion and finally, do I really need someone else to tell me how to live my life ?? how to eat, to talk, to think and etc ?? I mean if you did not know any Baha'u'llah or Muhammad or the others, what you could not live as a decent person ?? I mean am I that retarded that I should learn how to be a good person from some Arab guy lived 1400 years ago ?? and where can I find that glorious time that religion speak of ?? where is it ?? just name one country ?? believe me if you decide to be a good person, you do not need Baha'u'llah, Muhammad and the rest of guys.

Regards,
Alireza ( and there you go, just look at my name, the first one is the most murderous person I have so far seen in history book, the one that killed many of my hamvatan and the second one is a guy that basically robbed us, please all those who cry for Imam Reza, please provide me with one historical document that proves this guy have done anything else for Iran rather than stealing, we should just realize our problems with just looking at our names and we do not need anything else)

copper moon

The clergy never got out naturally. You are correct about the role of Mullahs in our political history and that's, in a way, natural. We have not been able to socially modify our culture from its traditional format. The "revolution" was not a mistake, historically. We will pass this, similar to the western nations struggle with the church, which was harsher than this system.

It's easy for me to preach about patience while being here in the US, I know. But at the same time one can see the chess board better when he is not playing.

Naa bordeh ranj ganj moyasar nashavad. We as a nation must find our way. Easiest way is (was) to step backward (this regime) to find our way forward.As I have said before, thirty years sounds long for us, since we live a relatively short life, but historically this is nothing. All those who just oppose this system because they see it wrong, as most of us do, can't truely present a solution. Why is that?

Why not look to see where we stand. Let's look closer at our society from a small village to the big city. Look at the population and see what the majority want. Where are their standards. What does the word democracy mean to them. What do you think the answer is?

Minab, bandar Abbas, Ahvaz, Yazd, Kashan, Semnan, Urumiyeh, Mashad, Esphahan...Where do you rank the majority of the Iranians living there? A traditional and Islamic or modern and democratic?

This to me is not a regime issue ONLY. We need to be more realistic and don't blame others such as Arabs or Islam alone, on the "problems" that we are facing. We are a Shia Muslim society (majority) and have to find the way to separate our religion from our social norms. Gradually but surely that is possible. A sudden change would take us backwards, check 1906 revolution.

Those who are pessimistic about the Iranian future don't include the people in their equation.

Finally I wish we had the 1979 revolution in 1906 and 1906 in 1979. But we are where we are...

Dear Abarmard: I must admit

Dear Abarmard: I must admit I envy your optimism. However, you're wrong in saying that the system is not established yet.

Looking at Iran's history, the ruling classes in Iran has, for the past one thousand consisted of two major components: the monarchy and the Clergy (mullahs).

It is instructive to know that the clergy (the mullahs) have been the most powerful and established/organized ruling elite in the history of Iranian all the way back to 1400 years ago. They have been the most integral/insidious force with far reaching tentacles in all aspects of Iranian society. They are as old as Islam in Iran. They don't need anymore time to be established...The Pahlavis were able to strip them out of power for mere 50 years...but then they reared their ugly head like vultures that they are.

Please get back on the topic .

Lets see if maybokhor will answer me, if he started to come out of too much hangover !!!

Tahirih 

Please

Mishe yeki harfaye Abarmardo vase ma tarjome kone? ma ke chizi azash nemifahmim. "Based and not is" in dige khayli balatar az diplom hast. ya ishoon dare farsi sare harf mizane ya turki estanboli, ya ziadi keshide.

Tahirih

Dar na omidi basi omid ast.

Our options are limited and people are the only hope that we all have. Unless I am missing something....I am all ears for new ideas.

We have to admit that the system is not fully established. After the war, the system began to gradually form. It took France 50 years after their revolution, so although it has been a long time for us, historically this system is in its infancy state. I am not pro the government but don't see any openings other than reformation of the current situation.

 We need to allow people and time to catch up with the system, for once! No foreign invasions or meddling, just our own Iranian people.

Zahak ham khafeh mikonim. Don't under estimate the Iranians

Abarmard lets see if ...

we can tame a poisonous Cobra snake gradually!!! and see if he can become a fluffy little kitten!!!

Tahirih

copper moon

I see your point. But let's hope that I am right ;)

It's easy to get disappointed with the current system and since there is no light in sight. The system is new and I believe is changing, for moderation. As you have said that they do whatever to secure themselves. Well once people demand it, people might get it. If not the whole thing would collapse by itself. 

I want to believe that the regime will become better by time.

Maybokhor, you have made the issue so simple that looks like...

describing two different jets by using paper planes!!!

the difference between Islam and Bahai faith is beyond the simple fact of the zohore 12th Imam!!!

Have you studied the principles of the bahai faith?

I just explain some, and if you see any resemblance then , we will talk!

- oneness of humanity

-equality of men and women

-elimination of prejudices

-elimination of extremes of wealth and poverty

-universal education

-harmony of science and religion

-a world commonwealth

- universal auxiliary language

Should I say more like, jihad is forbidden, no laws for bathing or clothing..... the list goes on and on.

My dear before legitimizing your " meybokhor" by denouncing all religions ,do some investigation first!

Tahirih

"It will be like Wall Mart allowing Sears to have a stand in a c

I dont think it is that simple Maybokhor!

However it will be like sears building in the vicinity and claim that they have better deals. What would be wrong with that? Competition, more choices, free market, better customer service, better prices and better for the consumers all around!

We should consider the civil society as the ground which contains diverse cultural, ethnic, and religious landscapes.

If we take the wallmart with a sears stand analogy and apply it globally, we will have more serious conflicts than what there is already.
Consider if the Jewish, christians, buddists and the rest of non-moslems would make such a claim as yours across the globe, and imagine the outcome!

There are members of a same family from different religions who get along just fine and there are examples of the members of a same religion who spill each others blood.

The success of a Religion in spiritualizing an individual depends on the individual just as much as the spiritualization of an individual depends on the gauidance and teachings of the religion!

Abaramrad: I have followed

Abaramrad: I have followed the politics in Iran too.

There has been zero structural changes in the past 30 years. All cosmetic changes have been opportunistically choreographed by the regime to diffuse tensions in the society; the system cleverly adjusts its rules and laws according to its preceived internal and external threats; sometimes it rules by sticks and other times by carrots. There are no attitudnal changes in the leadership cadre.

However, All the levers of power remain in the hands of few and recently some of the economic powers are transferred to the IRGC faction. Non-clergy leadership does not mean progress towards, justice, prosperity or economic security for Iranians.

copper moon

Take a look at our presidents in the last 20 years and the platforms that they used to run and now are running under. Take a look at the speeches that are inside the Majles. Take a look at the tones of the Iranian foreign affairs. Look at the methods to communicate with the people.

Have you looked at those?

Go back 15 or 18 years and follow up the speeches and platforms that the government to the last 8 or 9 years. I have drawn my conclusion based on the continuous readings and followings of the Iranian politics inside the country. I also believe that you will see less and less clergy in the ministry offices as time passes.

Take a look at the possible presidential candidates. What is their focus? You may argue that those are just talks, and I would argue name a politician anywhere that is not just talks, to get elected.

Those talks inside the government today is a result of modernization, although extremely slow, yet the system is moving from a fanatical to moderate stage. Ahmadinejad is the MOST fanatical presidential candidate that you would see in the country. What doesn't that tell you? I conclude that the days of fanatical regime is over and revolutionary Iran is forming a system that in time will establish itself.

That doesn't mean I agree with the system but I know what it is that we have as a system.

It's the matter of time, just like anywhere else in the world-historically. Make sense?

" it's important to realize

" it's important to realize that many hard core Islamic members of the regime are gradually being pushed a side and the system is trying to bring about a more mild version."

Links, citation, reference, source,???

Are you privy to information that we the "Nakhodis" aren't???

Unless

It's modernized by the society and the will of the people. A religious Republic still is a form of a system rather than just the personal belief.

In this case then, Bahais should and I believe will have the Right, even under the current regime. The system is "based" on Islamic principles rather than just "is". That allows rules to be modified and reinterpreted based on the current times.

Similarly during Khatami when he pushed for the rules to be changed that women could become judges. Or the change of attitudes towards music and arts, that previously were forbidden and now relaxed.

On a final note, it's important to realize that many hard core Islamic members of the regime are gradually being pushed a side and the system is trying to bring about a more mild version.

I have no doubt that gradually the system gives in to the times and the fanaticism changes to moderates and gradually to liberals. The current system is more capitalistic in nature than Islamic. Don't get distracted with the regime's push for women's hejab. That is as "Islamic" the regime gets. A quick tour of the country would tell you that the system is not as religious as one would preceive it to be.

Please bother a few actual facts before...

If at all possible, kindly bother to apprise yourself of some actual facts about the history and teachings of Bahais before spending your valuable time.

Bahais do not subscribe to the concept of a "hidden" imam; They do however share the belief with just about every religion and belief that All peoples from Hindus, Buddhists , Zoroastrian to Jewish , Christian and Moslem, await a second coming.

Bahais believe that Baha'u'llah is the fulfillment of all that has been promised in the past; and His teachings and writings 160 years ago created a new charter for a global society based on spiritual principles.

I am sure  once you understand the sheer depth and relevance  of Bahai teachings to todays problems; you will admit at least to yourself, that your comments about the Bahais faith were not warranted.

respectfully

faryarm