rosie is roxy is roshan

just a follow up

souri.  i hope you didn't take my post as a criticism of rosie as much as a hope for her to not take all things so seriously.  i don't see her issues as mistakes.  i simply see them as pointless.  you sound condescending when you refer to her efforts and contributions and that was NOT my intention.  however, i am fully aware that all of us... and that does mean all of us... tend to sound a little pompous on occasion.  particularly we women...:-)

rosie... this blog itself made reference to the grieving issue.  i'm simply saying that too much has been made of the delara blog... too many criticisms of how and who were posting.  it's simply ridiculous how much time and effort is spent complaining about how everyone posts comments.  everyone has got an opinion on how a blog should be conducted and they all differ.  i'm not talking about vulgarities or name-calling, etc.  i'm talking about how to even CONDUCT a blog.  it's simply ridiculous.  and those who complain about the name-calling are usually the frontrunners of name-calling themselves...lol.  it just amazes me!

EVERY thread deteriorates.  you haven't noticed that yet?  :-)

the flagging issue is a personal opinion.  i am no more stating a fact when i say it's pointless than souri when stating it works.  i personally think it is utilized as a personal get-back tool for most people.  god knows it hasn't eliminated a FRACTION of the most offensive posts. 

Fish, I didn't try to regulate anyone's grieving,

go back and scan up the thread and see my posts. The entire thread.

All I said is that people should flag. There were tons of people complaining about the deterioration of that thread. So much so that someone wrote a blog on it today with all kinds of quotes.

I didn't try to regulate anyone's grieving. What basis on earth do you have for saying that?

Thanks Khanom AF

Not everything you said about me is true :-) but I let it go in the spirit of your post which is very honest.

#1 :Soooooooooooooo ture!! damet garm khanom. This is what I (and some others here) are trying to say to Rosie, from the Day one!

If you want, I can bring sooooo many links from the past, where I told this same thing to our dear Rosie. 

She thinks I am agaisnt her, God knows it is not the case. I'm only too tired of her continusly doing same mistakes over and over. She just doesn't realize it.

Someone should tell her to not take herself too seriously, because nobody else dose!! baba jan. We are all equal in this site, all the simple members.

#5: Flagging is NOT pointless. It has always worked for me. Only once or twice, it took too long, but finally the post did get deleted!

Last one: when is everyone going to realize that until JJ sees a problem with it... there IS NO PROBLEM.  :-)

Yeaaaaaaaaaah! Finally someone got it!!  Brava!!

with all due respect roiban

this is a subject that keeps getting brought up time and again.  you do realize that there simply IS no resolution to it, right?  however, you are doing JJ a favor with providing him with yet another blog that will bring clicks. 

#1. it's not your job to "save" anything.  you participate just like anyone else. 

#2. every single controversial blog is going to implode.  every single one.  it's no special disrespect to delara.  it has, it did, and it will  happen on every blog that is potentially polarizing.  you would be better served continuing a particular discussion again in another blog if you feel it's derailing out of control.  constantly coming back and trying to regulate a blog that is out of control frustrates everyone and invites unwarranted criticsm of YOUR intentions. 

#3.  don't try to regulate grieving.  it is defined in many different ways.  don't minimize one person's grieving if it doesn't correlate to your standards.  i personally react in anger when deeply grieved.  i am angry with God, i am angry with humanity.  my anger might be perceived as disrespectful.  that would be insulting to me.

#4.  there is virtually NO civil discourse on iranian.com.  that's what we call a "pipe dream".  you're not going to change it.  find a way to live with it or to minimize it.  but it ain't going to go away.  there are too many people who are clearly interested ONLY in provoking people and insulting them.  they are at the forefront of attacking those who disagree with them... MERELY because they disagree with them.  again, JJ couldn't care less, he likes it.  :-)

#5.  flagging is pointless.  it's a petty response to someone not liking what someone else says.  it's personal and purely subjective.  do you seriously object to someone using the word "fuck" versus "dirty jew"?  not me.  i'd much rather you tell me off then to spew racist disgusting verbage.

souri... mo chara.  believe me when i say this with no rancour.  you sometimes are the very epitome of what you criticize in others.  you insult people just because they disagree with you.  you call them ignorant.  you call them stupid.  rosie has a point.  albeit a pointless one... but a point.  sarcasm doesn't become you.  the moderation has always been an issue.  YOU have been a vocal suggestor of suggestions.  it's a thankless job.  because it IS volunteer, no one can really be held responsible.  it is clearly subjective and would be even if it were a paid job.  i don't know that i'm convinced at all that the website can't be monitered by one person.  again, JJ isn't interested in this becoming a sanitized website.  with no controversary, there comes no attention.  with no attention, there comes no advertising. 

when is everyone going to realize that until JJ sees a problem with it... there IS NO PROBLEM.  :-)

Rosie, thanks for the explanations...

...I have been blogging for the past year and half or so, and just on this site.

This topic is of particular interest to me for several reasons.  One is that I view the subject of your blog in terms of principles and not perspective. Another reason is that I consider this issue as a reflection of a widening divide amongst Iranians.  And finally, I am realizing that the profile of bloggers are regularly hijacked (ie. use of the name of a registered user by an unregistered user) inorder to use the credibility of a user to convincingly misrepresent a perspective.

What is noticed on this site is change.  At times we see a resurgance of civilized discourse followed by a most unbecoming one.  Just as waves may reshape a coastline, I suspect that a similar process of reform is at work on this site.  Far from being a linear process, this site is experiencing its own ebb and flow of change, and blogs and comments create the dynamics for this progression and regression.

Admittedly, these days it feels like we are regressing, but let's hope that our ensuing progress will not only compensate, but will advance us beyond where we were.

Alborz

Make up your mind already

Is it any wonder why she was removed from being a moderator. At least it is what I recall reading some where on this site.
It would have been interesting to find out how objective she was as a moderator. Considering how she seems to attack some people on this website when they disagree with her.

Souri, is correct. First you say there is too much moderation going on and there needs to be less of it.
She then states on this blog that there is not enough.
Like Souri, said make up your mind already.

Souri..

please clarify carefully your question to me:

Are you asking me whether I NEED to make up my mind because you feel I still HAVEN'T, or are you asserting that you perceive that I already HAVE made up my mind and you are just asking for reassurance that the opinion I've come to is the one which yourperceive?

Please reply so that I can answer your query.

in the meantime, I shall return to a discussion about how the staging of Delara's execution to coincide with the most massive May Day labor purge in IRI history must be scrutinized and dealt with within the larger context of the massive human rights purge ongoing now, in Iran for weeks and carefully orchestrated, along, of course, with concomitant questions such a:, what to do, how to do it, how to convince people that something can be done, and how does the grief over Delara fit into all this, can it be harnessed to broaden the general awareness,,, galvanize, etc. or is it, as Parham suggests, too single-issue to be truly effective in the long run?

I shall return later to read your reply to me your apparently more pressing concerns--about me.

Alborz, very often when the exchange deteriorates like that so

quikcly, the reason is traceable to one person, and that one person is usually of a much disliked "minority opinion." this makes them come in from the start, with a so to say "chip on their shoulder" and that's how the whole thing snowballs. So having seen this many times, I really do think that immediate flagging and deletion would have a domino effect pretty quuicky.

__________________________

In answer to your questions as regards the moderation system itself, as best as I know, and expnding a bit:

Until several weeks ago there had been a very carefully organized system of moderation, with quite a few moderators who had to send the flagged posts to Jahanshah. Immediately they were deleted from the threads but they were only allowed final deletion if he approved it. If he didn't they went back to the threads. There were also a couple of chief moderators who were allowed to make final deletions. And there was a moderators' forum where they could discuss particular posts and so on it was all pretty good within reason.

A few weeks ago he decided to take the entire business upon his own shoulders for various reasons which I felt were ill-thought out and. I always thought it was a terrible idea and recently wrote telling him so. But yeserday..was just..a nightmare. One person cannot do it. And yesterday was so important...

Flagging works. Previously when I'd flag deletions would happen pretty quickly. However there were always relatively few "dedicated" flaggers so the system never worked as well as it should've. The sytem is set up There's no reason why it shouldn't work far better even than it did. But it would require  more moderators, as theree used ot be.Otherwise the flaggings will just sit an sit whenevertheo ne moderatoor is busy with other important things, and that's obviously what happened yesterday.

A related issue is the anonymous posts. Which existfor better AND for worse, but exist they do. Each one is screened, and when one person ony is moderator, they can sit there for a long time, which is obviously isruptive to the continuity of a thread. Again, one is not enough.

Another thing that used to happen when there were many moderators is that thye used to comb the threads, wither just reading for themselves or to check them, and theyd' pick up posts that way for deletion. Obviously again, one person do all this is...a bad idea.

there, well that should cover those questions of yours.

______________________

Your last point, Alborz is really the most critical one, and I'd love to broach it with you. really. sSo first I'm wondering: how long have you actually been involved with the site, in generl and since the blogging began. Recently I've seen fairly regularly. What about before that?

Thanks so muc,

Roxane

Well...think about that

"I don't think it's humanly possible for any one person alone to handle all aspects of moderation at all times."

Really?

Well, think about that. Make up your mind, what you want exactly?

//iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-roxy-roshan...

You want "many moderatores" but of your own choice! Isn't it?

I agree with you . . .

... whenever this happens the theme of the blog is sacrificed as the exchange deteriorates into a free-for-all.

Do you know if anyone besides JJ is involved with moderation?  As the site's visitors and contributors increase it is hard to imagine that the current scheme of moderation can stem this growing problem.

Do you have any evidence that flagging works?  I would imagine that judgement on the part of the moderator ultimately determines whether something is removed or not.

Finally, what is written here is to a great extent a reflection of our stage of evolution.  Does this site advance us to the next stage?  I would like to believe that it can.

Thanks for raising this issue again.

Alborz

Okay, this is for one of the posters on that thread....

i did the best I could to save that thread. I don't accept any more responsibility than anyone else for what happened on it.  I chose to engage an extremely abrasive person whom I thought had good ideas in an extended dialogue, while at the same time flagging  some offensive posts he wrote to others (along with a couple of others' posts..). And that's...fine..