rosie is roxy is roshan

Flagging is like Flogging

*rosie is roxy is roshan* - I put “crazy” in quotes because that’s how he was characterized by others, which may very well be apt, but I had not (yet) used that word on my own to describe him.

Even though it may not be the appropriate time & place for me but, since you asked, I’ll briefly share my thoughts on flagging.  I believe that flagging should be utilized only under certain circumstances.  For example, if someone divulges some private information about someone else, like real name, phone #, address, family information, and other sensitive stuff like that; information that could potentially harm a person physically or threaten their livelihood (family distress, demotion, getting fired, etc.).  Other speech, even if highly offensive, disrespectful to one’s self – opinions – or sacred beliefs, vulgarity, etc. should be allowed and protected.  This does not diminish the emotional harm they inflict though.  For one thing, offensiveness is subjective and based on one’s sensitivity threshold.  If we encouraged people to flag anything they found objectionable, we’d end up with either a skewed reality or a blank canvas.  You were called a Basiji and it (rightfully) hurt you.  I, too, on this very site, have been called a Basiji (peppered with funny death slogans).  If you knew my background, you’d know how absurd (and offensive) that accusation is.  But I never flag them.  At most, I flag them in my mind and ignore them.  Reading (hearing/seeing) objectionable material serves two purposes for me.  One, it teaches me what not to say or do.  Two, it exposes the true debased nature of certain individuals/groups to everyone else and gives more information for the independent open mined people to make up their own mind.  Of course, that’s my policy and I have no problem with differing policies for others.  
In case you are interested, I’ll share the main factor as why I think this way.  I am an Iranian Baha’i (not knowing what you know or heard about it…) and even though this faith came out of Iran but since it’s inception over 160 years ago, it has been systematically erased form Iranian culture and history.  They want to pretend that it never happened.  At the same time, anti-Baha’i materials have flourished.  In my opinion, this has given a skewed and disfigured impression of the Faith to most Iranians.  I want both types of materials to be available so that people can decide for themselves, whereas, the powers to be, “flag” only certain materials that they don’t approve.  Sometimes, flagging is akin to flogging.

Yes, I did post to Max5Top that I was a Baha’i and expressed my opinion that Zoroastrianism and Baha’i faith were gifts from Persia to the world and that I was sorry that most Iranians may be the last to find out.  But when he blew his top off and still claimed that minorities would stick together, I told him that it wasn’t the case as long as he was misbehaving.

Thanks for the clarification.  I hope my explanations were clear a well.

Anvar,
Just an earthling admiral in an ensign’s uniform ;-)

Anvar, the best that I can

 The best that I can remember I was the only one who said I wouldn’t flag that “crazy” individual’s posts 

Yes it's true and I have no problem with that at all, I appreciated your restrained but stern effort to explain to the person that though the posts should not be here, you have reasons you're not flagging which are yours and not necessarily others.

You put crazy in quotes. It seems to imply that either you have a firm belief that insanity (because that's what I meant, insanity, not craziness in the informal sense) either insanity is not an objectively real condition or that you believe that it is an objectively real condition but that Max didn't 'fit the bill'. Could you comment on this, please?

 I feel compelled to write because you have oversimplified my reasons and, perhaps, even my position.  (I’d be happy to share my thoughts on flagging at an appropriate time and place later).

 This is an appropriate time and place, especially now that the blog is no longer among the featured, but is on the top page of blog central only. This means that it will get fewer reads from new readers so it won't sidetrack people off the main topic, they won't be here much. (Oh and btw, FYI, once a blog goes to page 2 of blog central it is not read much. But through your tracking system you can always find out if there are new comments on any blog, no matter how old. Do you know how to use your tracking system?)

  If you remember, I strongly objected to the way the individual had chosen to express himself.  I completely disassociated myself from his comments and told him that I’d probably not read his future posts.

Yes, I do remember.

Also, what is this “every non-minority” creature?  There is a majority (dominant religion) and, consequently, every non-majority (all others).  Who is “them” that you are referencing that the crazy person’s comments were “not directed toward?” 

The way I wrote that part of this blog is extremely convoluted. I would actually be surprised if you did follow it! lol I did not correct it because once a blog is featured, if you make a correction it goes unfeatured and I already explained to you just now the importance of being featured. (Normally if you have to do somethig like that you can just write in the blurb box in blog central on your blog, JJ, please refeature, sorry, or something like that but he (the publisher) is traveling now and not checking the site as often as usual).

Anyway. About what that part means: Max identified himself as Armenian. He offered all his support (threatening violence on one of us, calling me 'bitch' in the very first post, and god knows what else) on the basis that we were all Muslim scum or vermin (that was not the word he used in the title of his first post, I don't remember what it was but it was more or less along those lines...) whose respect for Zoroastrianism was false (implying some kind of plot against them), that he was protecting the Parsees from us, who are 'Basim' because minorities like him and them had to stick together against Iranian Muslims.

So what the part I wrote means is that every non-minority (meaning him and the Parsees in this context) had to stick together against this Iranian Muslim scum, which although he did not know it, included Javaneh, a Zoroastrian Iranian and  me, a non-Iranian Jew, in his eyes the worst offenders.

Are you implying that I, as a minority, would not flag the offender’s posts because, as you put it, they were not TOWARD us?  

No. I am trynig to STATE (not imply) that the minnority/non-minoirty issue was something all in Max's head which was making him threaten actual physical violence even (he did, explicitly, once) to most of the people actively participating on that thread at that time. Anyway I do not remember your saying you are a minority...no, wait! You also posted at the beginning of the thread and said you are Bahai, is that right??????????

Overall, I think the main thing you haven't realized yet about this part of the blog you're asking about is that, despite the one terribly convoluted sentence which I did want to revise along with a couple of other details in the blog after I posted it (it got featured exactly about five minutes after I posted, this is one case where I wish that had not happened...), the section we're talking about here was written in a kind of stream of consciousness...it is an intentional conveyng of thoughts as they popped into my head, rendering the chaos of the blog at the time, the impressions it invoked in me and the feelings, which also would reflect something like Maya and the uncle were going through, only in her case far worse..no, not an inadvertent or intentional misrepresentation, an EVOCATION, an IMPRESSION, of an objectively emotional and highly charged situation. This evocatoin conveyed the reality far better than a careful, linear, detailed, precise description ever could have in a million years. The readers weren't really SUPPOSED to be able to take it as court testimony, but as a true evocation of a dynamic and tragic human reality.

Empath, Romulan or from the Continuum? lol

_______________

ps Why I did not flag more quickly: because I have been a pain in the ass oto the publisher lately with too many messages, I did not want it to be me. Because I had been involved until recently in an ugly fued onsite, I did not want to start flagging other people for a while until I was sure I could control my own mouth. Well, I am finding out pretty quickly over the last couple of blogs concerning the Parsees...

WE HAVE THE TEXT OF MAYA PARSE'S DELETED BLOG!!

It seems that Qumars Balorchian had copiedd the text of Maya's blog to draft a comment and when he tried to post it the comment, the blog had been deleted. So today he wrote his own blog about it, including Maya's text and his comment for it. (As you can see Maya has been a hot topic here...). This is Q's new blog:

//iranian.com/main/blog/q/re-disappeared-zoroastrian-blog-maya-parsi

 If the blog had not been deleted, Q's comment would have appeared above mine sarcastically answering the Mrs.' post about how she had watched 'bits' of the video and hadn't 'read any comments' but it was a 'stupid video to make for Iranians." That was right above the part where the crazy person was posting his six comments threatening physical violence and calling us all  savage Muslim Basij and bitches, especially those who were pretending to like Zoroastrians for our evil agenda. Fortunately someone smoothed out that situation by yelling at him and explaining to us that he was not human. At the same time there was bickering going on among the usual suspects about why did you have to say this to the Parsees/why shouldn't I have saitd it, a little discussion about flagging, and a back and forth in Persian which the Parsees can't read initiated by someone who had not long before explained to us all the true meaning of good thoughts good words good deeds.

well done, Q!

Afarin.

_____________

Javaneh, find that girl.

lol

Ro and David

Rosie... well I have not had any direct involvement with the parsi Zoroastrian community as yet but I will endevour to find her. I can be very determined when I am motivated. You may remember I found my lost family through the Zoroastrian international community. So although I won't tempt fate and say it'll be a piece of cake, I dont expect it to be soooo hard either.

David I wasn't refering to the post as a whole. The post its self is an observation from Rosie about a lesson we have learnt after what happened re Maya's post and about having compassion and appreciation for others. I have no issue with that.

Javaneh

Please Clarify…

*rosie is roxy is roshan* - Would you please elaborate on a couple of issues?  You wrote:

“Then a crazy person came and people were like well I won't flag you because of free speech. Threats of violence, the most foul language imaginable, racist slurs, the most insane conspiracy theories...not directed TOWARD them but toward every non-minorty (they claimed to be Armenian) Iranian on god's earth.”

I don’t get offended or defensive so don’t think that’s the case here.  The best that I can remember I was the only one who said I wouldn’t flag that “crazy” individual’s posts and I feel compelled to write because you have oversimplified my reasons and, perhaps, even my position.  (I’d be happy to share my thoughts on flagging at an appropriate time and place later).  If you remember, I strongly objected to the way the individual had chosen to express himself.  I completely disassociated myself from his comments and told him that I’d probably not read his future posts.

Also, what is this “every non-minority” creature?  There is a majority (dominant religion) and, consequently, every non-majority (all others).  Who is “them” that you are referencing that the crazy person’s comments were “not directed toward?”  Are you implying that I, as a minority, would not flag the offender’s posts because, as you put it, they were not TOWARD us?  

As it is highly unlikely for me to be able to keep up with you, in terms of quantity of posts, I’ll just thank you here in advance.

Anvar

David, I ex'd out the two posts below

not to hide them but because you'd already read them, and because they don't express well what really matters.

I didn't mischaracterize you, because the part where I talk to several you's is incoherent and emotional and not intended to be  a verbatim account of what happened on that blog, but a synthetic impression of the horror and chaos and pain that it caused.

Ultimately, the core issue here is that you don't care that they're gone or that their video is gone from cyberspace. Since you don't care now, you obviously didn't care then if something you said would contribute to making them leave. Or how they felt. And I was the one who asked you to look at that blog and it was beyond obvious how much it meant to me that they stay, so you didn't care how I felt either. But you do care now about how you feel about being 'mischaracterized' in a few lines of semi- illegible babble maybe three people would've even known referred to you. 

This discussion is about a blog that had a HUGE image of a heart on top cracked down the middle with a bandaid on it, and you don't care that they're gone because it was their 'choice.'

Did I get it right this time or did I mischaracterize you again?

 it//iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-roxy-roshan/what-yeggia-once-told-me-about-iran

del

 del

Jav did I write this? !

I am not the one who wrote this blog. I am not the one who passed the blames. So your "don't add feul to dying amber" is misdirected. You should say it to the one who wrote this and you are agreeing with. 

I simply am responding to the nonesense that is being blamed on ME 

Jav..

Sorry, Javaneh, your post and mine cross-posted. I would've framed mine a bit differently if I'd read yours first, but I'm just going to let it stand as is.

Yes, please, I really do hope you'll find Maya for me. It's funny, it never occurred to me just to ask you. I guess it's because I didn't realize there were such strong links worldwide in the entire Zoroastrian community that you would be able to locate someone from such a traditional Parsee temple community.

del

del

David

Please dont add fuel to dying embers. Can we not let go of this constant pulling things apart. Its so destructive to this community and we how now seen a very good example of what happens through Maya.

We all make mistakes. Its how we learn and become more than we were.  Some peolple, myself included, did not appreciate what Maya had contributed.

On reflection.... a skill which separates us humans from being merely animals, many of those who made comments on Maya's 1st post, found something touching after her second post. I can only speak for myself as one of the guilty party, but Maya reminded me of what I want to aspire to in my life... if that makes any sense.

Lets please try to be kind to each other. Im sure we can manage it:)

Im not saying dont ask questions, dont express personal views but doing it graciously invites such a better understanding of each other.

 Javaneh

Rosie

No one made R. Patel/Maya come here and no one made her go, but herself. I too wish she would have stayed but that is her choice and there is noone to blame for the freedom that she excercised coming or going or in breaking "their rules".

Please do not so dishonestly mischaracterize , sensationalize and misquote just to make a point. This dishonesty in communication , this theft of words only because they no longer exist, is just not called for. Do not try to simplify by blaming what happened on one or two persons. Don't be so cruel. Don't become the judge, jury and executioner and all in the name of bringing people together!!! Don't divide to conquer or for having your moment in the spotlight.

I am not going to get in to what went wrong on part of those who tend to rush to citicise just to later rush to apologize for it , to the unfriendly words by the blogger to Iranians as well as the the members of a community as a whole .... and this has absolutely nothing whatsoever with the imaginary nonesense that you self-created here that anyone told her that " You are racist because you told us you have blond hair and green eyes as well as were born in England and don't wear a sari." 

No wonder some of your old non-friends have suddenly become interested in you. What a coincidence (NOT). 

and Good luck in your new journey. 

Ro

Im part of the zartushti  community in the Uk ... I'll find her. It wont be so hard as trying on the net. Will keep you updated.

Javaneh

No. The video's gone. They felt spurned here

This is just a live performance of the song they used for their ownl video. They deleted their video. Everywhere. From here and from youtube too, and their entire account on youtube.. I tried googling her and there weren't any hits. This is just the original song they used with their own video they made. I just edited the post below to explain it a little better.

You should've seen their video. It was magnificent. Maybe I'll find them again. I hope they didn't throw it away. Maybe I could find them somehow. 

I'm really happy you and I are in touch. I'll e-mail you again tomorrow.

Rosie

Is this the video of Maya?  This is beautiful.

Do you have a link for the clip she had posted?

Thanks

IRANdokht

Something I didn't make clear...

I wrote the when I was very upset and I made a choice NOT to edit it or even check it over because I crafted my posts on Maya's thread so carefully and it didn't help. But one  thing I forgot to say is that Maya explained that the voice that is singing is not the Parees' voice calling to you.  IT'S NEDA'S VOICE CALLINb TO HER.  

And to the whole world. That's why their video had scenes of Times Square and the World Trade enterk with images of the Green movement in Iran and Mazdaist symbols superimposed, instead of scenes from Iran, and why she chose a song that wasn't specifically Zartoshti or Iranian.

Ro

I was in the middle of making a comment about this top5 person and when I went to post it, phoooom .. it had disappeared!  I thought it had something to do with being a fallen angel!

Its very very sad. I hope Maya and her uncle got some of the positive messages and didn't only see the usual back biting, point scoring one upmanshsip.

I didnt down load the video unfortunately. I meant to and I wish I had done so more quickly now.

This whole issue of nite picking is one of the things that makes it hard to be here on IC sometimes and for a newbie here it must have seemed like a battlefield.... which it often is. Its one of the reasons I took a break. Im not nearly so clever, quick witted or knowledgable to enter into it .. and truth is, I dont want to anyway.

By the way one of the things I was going to say in my post was that I loved your message to Maya. Very nicely said.

Javaneh