Souri

Thank you

I appreciated. Nice song.

deleted

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn2KLXb5pec

Dear Souri

Thank you for responding to my post. It is very kind of you!

thanks,

yolanda 

dear Yolanda

1st question : Yes and no! Iranian.com like any other community has its ups and downs!! If you look at one of the comment below (che khabareh I think) she explain well, why we are all too emotional at this time. That's life ;)

2nd question : I have no news of Rosie. I really don't know how she is doing. Wish her all the bests.

Thanks for having read the blog.

Hi Souri

Is Iranian.com always like this, bloody debates everyday? I am here only 8 weeks, I did not know what it was like before.

  2nd question: Is Rosie OK?

thanks,

yolanda

Kharmagas, I don't get you about how my flavor is like Jaleho

You need to expand on this comment for it to make any sense, at least to me.  I am not a mind reader and short hand does not work for comments like this.

Dears Souri and Solo

You two are 2 of the favorite ladies that I like in this website.

 I have learned from both of you a lot and enjoyed your writings. I do not like to see my 2 favorite ladies quarrel and exhaust themselves.

You have more in common in goodness than in disparity and difference. 

So please kiss each other on the cheeks and stop this useless quarrel. Thank you.

Your fan,

B. Mehman 

... my friend

you are welcome.

... ShAer

.... the link was cool, ... the poetry was cool.

Solo, would you please stop this now?

I'm astonished how you dare to talk about Napoleon complex, while you are the one who participated at that party and called me Pig!

Believe me I got as much frustrated as yourself,  when they have deleted my post which was showing the exact nature of the gang!

Now, please stop this, as you asked me to stay away from you but it won't be possible if you bring all the past deals to the market! I don't want to make you angry because after what you said, I got really scared and am really afraid of seeing your angry side ;)

And stop telling me to keep writing and writing. Believe it or not, I know what to do and do not need your permission for that.

He/she even posted a cool link ...

Yes, I am known to be cool..

Adieu, and without any rancor.

Oooops ! Solo again

Sorry I just remembered something important in your post and come back here to make it clear for all ! You said:

"So good of Kharmagas to show up just in the nick of time and ask that pressing question, eh?  Your blogs deserve immediate featuring.  Afterall - who'd want to miss out on the Peacock's plumage when in full glory."

I hope my English is as bad as I think, and I'm really wrong but I believe you are assuming something very wrong here about Kharmagas .

If this is the case (you think you know who he is) I must say that you are absolutely wrong! You don't know who he is. Nobody else knows who is Kharmagas. Then please, do not assume anything and do not publish your assumption as a real fact. Kharmagas is not the person that you think.

BTW: JJ never feature my blogs immediately :) He always wait half a day, and if I don't get more than a few comments, he forget about that. Now, this, is a fact :)

Tabari & Shariati

 Souri Jan,

Blogs can be updated. Featured articles cannot. Check with the boss; he'll tell you. In any case, I for one have not, to date, tried to change submissions.

As far as the storyline was concerned Tabari & Shariati were the one and the same. The faux pas was intentional ;) 

Angry? Sweetie - you have not seen me angry, nor will you ever.  Are you sure you are not mistaking satire for ire?

As far as sexual fantasies - well - you've got me there. I did not consider the comment ugly and offensive. It is how you felt; it was your impression of a piece of writing and your impression on the writer - a creative way to tie in what you have read of the person.  No reason to be ashamed about how you feel.

While we are on the subject I want to mention to you that your comment on another piece of mine where you pointed out that Solo was suffering from Napoleon complex was flagged by someone other than me. I objected to its removal insisting to the publisher to return the comment to the piece.  I was told your post could not be retrieved.

Keep writing. Keep throwing daggers. Keep sending out those bullets. Keep trying to put people right and point out their shortcomings.  You are anonymous name with an anonymous face - the perfect mirror for everyone's imperfections.  May I suggest humbly though that , once in a while, you would allow yourself just a smidge of a doubt that you may have got your facts wrong.  Just a smidge - nothing more.  :)

sometimes personal attack is not too bad!

Souri, I recently exchanged some personal attacks with a person who knows great deal of Persian poetry .... I must confess I liked the ShAer's poetic insults!

He/she even posted a cool link: bAz havAye vatanam... 

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ssv6PCdHEY

Let the one with no sins throw the first stone

Let the one with no sins throw the first stone.

We are all guilty of it at one point or the other.

We all, as ordinary human beings, give in to anger.

We all as ordinary human beings go to [self defense] mode if unjustly attacked.

We all at times err in our judgments, for we are human beings.

We all are guilty of [ganging up] on one another at times.

We all sit silent at times when we see unjust attack occurs.

We all are guilty of intentional and unintentional insults at times.

We all get angry and it shows in our comments and blogs.

Question is though: Why do we blog anyways? Why do we interact in this manner?

If I wanted to see no comment on my blogs, well then I should type it, staple it neatly, and file in [file 13].

But if we do not see ourselves as Mr/Ms/Mrs. [know it all], then we should welcome the comments. Knowing well in advance of clicking the [submit] button that, someone is going to hate what we have to say, someone is going counter argue our points, some are going to love it, and finally to some it might be the best remedy for their insomnia!

Beauty of blogging[of which I still consider myself a new kid in the BLOG], is that we get almost instantaneous response and reaction from the readers, be it positive or negative.

So rather than trying to rewrite the entire blogging system, and turning it into something that it is not, lets revamp our own expectations, our own needs and wants from writing. Nothing is promised in life, let alone finding few dozen hardcore blogger who will ONLY [bah bah o chah chah] about what we have to say.

Regards

-YT 

I understand your anger, Madame

Solo:

No need to ask me for staying away from you. This is done since the same moment I had posted that comment.

After people attacked the party toudeh just for belittling me and after that I defended my ideal persons, then you just updated your blog to insert their name there as a bad reference.

I told you this was an IRI tactics and very much disappointing. I had said "does it happen to you to read one book between two sexual fantasies"? [where did you see: frustrated woman?]

Then I came back minutes later and re-write that phrase which was ugly and offensive. Yes, I felt sorry for having said that.

At least, I recognize and acknowledge my mistakes.

I wish you could do the same! 

then maybe we have started an uphill movement? :-))

Let's try and take something from this discussion.  The fact that we're all human, some more so than others. LOL.

And that it is human nature to disagree.  And to be hurt and angry when we are criticized and, especially, attacked.  And that attacking someone is something that we all have done, one way or the other.  Some more direct, others less so.  And that we do respond in kind when it's directed at us and those we like or usually agree with. 

Anon111.  I think you missed the whole point Souri is trying to make. :-)  I think you could have made your point without naming names.  What if I came back with something like "yeah, but so-and-so is much worse than someone you named".  It's just creating that unnecessary tension because his/her supporters are just going to come back and call YOU names.  And then it happens... another shitfest.  :-)))

Stop the madness!!!!

Thanks again Souri, I will remember this discussion for a long time.  The power is ours.  Let's use it wisely.

Souri

Personal insults and name calling only serve to elevate emotions and lower the level of discourse, especially when they are unfair and false. 

For instance, never in any of comments or blogs on this site have I ever insulted Islam, Muslims or any religion for that matter.  that is just something that I do not believe in and stay away from.  In fact, if anything, I have advocated tolerance and respect for everyone's religion.  Here's an example:

//iranian.com/main/blog/anonymous111-2/dream-future-iran

But all of a sudden, this person comes out of nowhere and attacks me and a whole bunch of other people and calls us Islamophobes, racists and fascists because we simply expressed our opinion about how someone acted.  And she is continuing that to this day, and is even expanding it by calling other people names for being "friends" with us.  If that's not slander or intimidation I don't know what is.   

Dear friends

Alborz: As always a very insightful comment! I never have enough of your wise thought. Very much enlightening.

Che Khabareh: It seems that we agree to the whole points, while your approach could be more practical than mine!

Yes, you are absolutely right. The only thing I stand by it's again that line to be drawn between "confrontation" and "personal insulting".

Like you, I hate hypocrisy too, but for being honest one doesn't need (at least not always :)) angry calls.

Thank you dear friends.

OMG, OMG, OMG

Look who is talking about civility, Ms. confrontation herself, "Setareh Chashmakzan".   

" I think routine and diligent removal of personally directed offensive remarks and removal of the repeat offenders could go somewhere towards addressing this problem."

I agree.  Specially when someone is expressing his opinion on an issue and is immediately slandered by being called a fascist, racist and Islamophobe because his opinion does not match Setareh khanoom, like here:

//iranian.com/main/2009/sep/azadeh-salami

Setareh: you are the most confrontational person and the biggest name caller on this site.  Your problem is that you are so arrogant that you can't see past your own ignorance.  Every time you show up on a thread you immediately pick a fight with a person or a group of people simply becasue they disagree with you.  The only reason that it hasn't happened here yet is because for the most parts, the commenters are agreeing with you.  Otherwise, it would have become a slander-fest the moment you logged in.  Here's another blog that you turned into another slander-fest:

//iranian.com/main/2009/sep/maryam-sabri

here's something that accurately describes you:

//www.mikezook.com/my_weblog/images/2007/11/30/hypocrite.jpg

this is good!

And I will continue to appreciate your response when it is stated so heartfeltly (word?) lol.

First, I am not arguing, I am discussing.  I'm not sure I'm in disagreement with your words but rather pointing out some inconsistencies.  I'm in absolute agreement with your basic idea!!!

So, to continue.  Rather than pick out these two individuals, I think it's safe to say it applies to everyone.  You could say X and Y, or A and C... no matter. 

Do you think that an insult to X might not be an insult to Y?  And vice versa?

I think that everyone is entitled to the same degree of respect, until such time that respect is not deserved. Now... here we are at the crux of the matter. 

Let's say that I think X has said or done something that negates that due respect.  YOU might think that Y has said or done something to lose that respect.  WHO is going to be the judge of who's right?  That's that "we" that I despise so much...LOL.  (not you.. not you!!)   So many of us think that we are the only ones capable of deciding who deserves respect and who doesn't.  Do you see what I mean?  It will never end!!!

In that you are still mentioning specific people, I have no choice but to respond specifically.  You don't like Fateh (as you stated yourself) so you use HIS name to differentiate between the groups.   You have come to this discussion with a preconceived and negative opinion of him.  You've opened the door to the very criticism you're trying to avoid!  Human nature! 

Someone else might feel just as strongly about the second person you mentioned.  But if that someone else makes a comment about her/him, are you saying that THEY are being insulting? 

You know what.  No matter how much we talk, this issue will NEVER be resolved.  Why?  Because we're human.  It might slow things down a bit (as you say) but it will rear it's ugly head again.  How many times have you heard S or M state their "respect" for a different opinion in one blog and in the next, attack someone else when they disagree?  Too many!!!!  It's this hypocrisy that I can't stand.  And worse... the denial of hypocristy.

so while I applaud your efforts, I think it's pretty friggin hopeless to expect such a large and diverse group of people to behave as we "wish" for them to behave.  But we can hope!!!

I'd rather someone say "fuck you" to my face than call me "jaan" and then talk behind my back.  That will never change.

Thank you... I'm enjoying this.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

by kharmagas on Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:24 PM PDT

Souri, this is not related to the topic, but I found you here and thought you might know the answer to my question.

Do you remember the name of the story we had in our primary school in which a duck a turtle and another creature flew away from the fire ... but the turtle talked and fell down? (lost his grip)

• reply
• flag as abusive

by Souri on Sat Sep 12, 2009 01:39 PM PDT

You have updated your story just to insert a clause about the Materialism and Socialism instruction and Tabari's teaching ?

How low level!

You had already disappointed me to an unbelievable degree, now you really didn't need to degrade yourself that much.

FYI, Dr Shariati was never a communist!

You better read more!

Souri Jan: Truly you need not have buried this gem of wisdom in an old essay which you apparently hated.  I liked the first version of your comment much better - before you edited to take out the reference to sexual reveries of a frustrated woman.  Is that creativity I see seeping through?  So good of Kharmagas to show up just in the nick of time and ask that pressing question, eh?  

Your blogs deserve immediate featuring.  Afterall - who'd want to miss out on the Peacock's plummage when in full glory.

 Keep writing. Go for deep and meaningful; throw in sincerity and good old down-to-earth Persian congeniality.  And try and stay away from the droppings of that shallow lonely bird. ;)

Self regulation is the order of the day!

In reading through this blog and the comments, what people seem to be circling around is a fundamental principle that is commonly misconceived, namely freedom, and in the case of blogging on this site, freedom of speech.

In real life, there are mechanisms for enforcing responsibility in speech, just as other social laws. On this site, the only mechanisms available to us are three fold:

1) to express ourselves responsibly and hold ourselves to a high standard of speech, even when criticizing and disagreeing,

2) individually flag comments that are offensive,

3) recognize those that contribute to raising the standards of discourse on this site.

Finally, while we all have the potential for decency in our interactions, our commitment to it is not the same.  Such differences allows us to make choices with consequences that can either elevate this site or lead to its decline. 

Beyond this, our speech needs to reflect our pronounced ideals and I for one do not consider this to be unachievable.

Alborz

rephrasing Machiavellianism! (to Anahid)

You went through all the hassle to describe Machiavellianism!? :)

Ironically, some of Jaleh's ideas have that flavor too, ..... just like yours! 

Anahid jan

Your points are well taken.

But please also pay attention that I am not talking about isolated action one or two bad words used here and there because of the emotional context in which someone find themselves.Because anyway I do flag them by respect for both parties!

I was talking about a general trend which as Irandokht said rightfully the "spiral downward" of this site.

When you see the people you like and/or respect are offended, you feel bad for them. Even I feel bad for the people that I don't specially like, but whose "freedom of speech" I respect.

What is holding us from being vicious, offensive and insulting to others? Once, twice, many times, all the times?

If we don't give this concern a good amount of attention, then it will be hard to bear with the general aspect of the site in a near future.

Nobody can put it straight than us! We have to act responsibly.

Souri jan, No matter Jaleho posts poetry,her politics is wrong

Souri jan, you mention that Jaleho sometimes posts poetry.  Your actual sentences were:" I have seen some blogs from Jaleho which have been only about history or literature or some other points. I have seen her bringing many good ideas, many beautiful poems..". 

Dear Souri, it does not matter that Jaleho has good blogs.  Even if Jaleho had the poetry skills of Hafez, Kasraii, Forough, etc, all combined, some peole would still be disgusted by her.  Most important issue for Iranians at the moment is the movement in Iran and its oppression by AN government.  This is where bodies are buried, sadly both figuratively and literally. In this important struggle, Jaleho has aligned herself with forces of Ahriman as some of our friends would say.  It is natural that she incites in many people strong feelings of hate.  Some people may not be able to hide their disgust and they resort to using impolite words. But what is worse?  Being aligned with forces of oppression and being their mouthpiece or being on the side of struggle of Iranian people for freedom but occasionally using not so polite words?  I personally prefer those who are on right side of history even if here and there, they use language that I don't approve. 

Dear Souri, you said,

"I agree that :"the one who does the assaulting is the one who gets debased not the one who is assaulted."

Not only that is very true, but also you can use the blogs which promote gang mentality as a "khargir" to sieve people whom you might find worthy to read vs. people who are best ignored. You can learn who is a character that you might care to have a back and forth with, and which ones you better dump. There are so many IDs and time is limited, so instead of getting angry use these kind of blogs to seive people and limit your time waste!

This is exactly the same way you choose to watch TV, or read different newspapers or portions of them.

You don't read every news, every blog, every story, every event in Iranian.com, right? You tend to read the ones you find worth your time, after knowing the writer and provider of the news. People tend to bunch up based on their political views, their taste in arts and literature.... and above all their characters. Choose the ones that gives you fun and knowledge, ignore the rest.

Che khabare

Let make our definition clear (as in the legal statement :))

WE = us the readership, the members of the site who have the same legitimate right to express our ideas as the ones whom we don't agree with

Yes, "we" is me now, and "we" is you as the other "we" who is arguing (kindly) on this debate with me!

And let me say that this is what this whole forum is about. Isn't it?

Who said that one member is less worthy of respect than other, in an equal first look?

Now, it will change all when we take a historic look at one member's behavior to the majority.

It is hard to stay in this debate now, without giving the names :0

And this was not my point for blogging this post.

But I try to go as clear as I can without hurting others:

I have seen some blogs from Jaleho which have been only about history or literature or some other points. I have seen her bringing many good ideas, many beautiful poems. I have seen also some aspect of her contributions that I didn't like at all. She had even called me names! (I'm talking about more than a year ago on a Bahai topic) but again, her general behavior is not compared to the ones who use profanities and curs words and bashing religion (whether Islam or Bahai) systematically!

In many cases I have noticed that Jaleho is not the one who FIRST insult others. Of course it happened to her Occasionally.

While the case of the two persons I had named before (and a couple of others belonging to the first group) is something completely different.

Now, coming to your point :

Do you think X deserves more respect than Y ?

You are asking a general question here, to which the general answer is : NO!

But again, you must first give a definition of the word "Respect" which you are using here!

What you mean by respect? This is a vast panoply, from being silent to saying discretely a word or confronting them with "kind words" as you mentioned!

In this blog, I did not insult anybody.

Please take note that the blog was talking about the "Insulting posts"

So which part of the word "respect" you didn't understand here?

Did I "insult" Mr Fateh?

I had read some of his blog at first and then I decided to ignore him completely because I don't like his attitude. Same thing for Nur. Same thing for a few others.

Occasionally, I do state a remark, once in a long while, and each time I get back an offensive word from them which put me in "my place" again to ignore them for a long while :0)

These are tough times

Have been for 30 years. But now, it is war. They do not distribute candy and sweets in war. It is sad that we Iranians cannot discuss topics in harmony and peace, but all it takes is one inflamatory statement and .....bulletts start flying.

Do not take it to heart Souri khanoom. You cannot make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

__________________________________

Long Live a Secular and Free Iran

Souri

Although I have some AbAdAni blood I did not chAkhAn! I called you ShirzAn because you have your picture and very likely your name is also real,.........yet you have many times stood up for people who were being lynched.