Souri

Vildemose

Dear, first of all, I wish you keep cool in this trend, because we are talking a matter of importance which is exactly about this "temper" ecxitement.

Why did you write 3 consecutive comments, just in reply to one comment of Irajkhan?

a) because you didn't take the time to read his whole comment at the first sight, so you didn't even take the time to reflect on it.

b) or, you wanted to get more attention, then to silence the other person by speaking "loud".honey jon, did you at least take time to read my humble blog?

It is all about that. Some people, are pro-IRI. Some others  are supporting IRI only in some of its aspects.

You don't like it? I know. But you must take it as a fact. You can never kill a "fact". Something which exist, you can not destroy it, just by insult and accusation. I read Irajkhan's comment clearly. He didn't say that you were among those who call to the work place of the people. He said only that you threat the people on this site, that they will get blocked!

I was about writing a reply to Irajkhan, but suddenly you exploded! So i though it would be better to answer to you, first.

I believe that we should see an "opinion" or generally the "mind" as an energy. An energy will never be destroyed. It can be "moved to somewhere else" or "replaced to" something else.

By boycotting and bashing an opposing opinion, by any mean, you will not be able to stop that trend, but you will just move them to somewhere else  (to another group). If you bloc them here, they will go else where. You can never  destroy them at all. But if you want to change them, then you must take the time and patience to confront them in a constructive way.The fact is that Irajkhan, or Mammad, or many other  people here, which you think are supporting the IRI, represent a fraction of the people of Iran. You can't ignore them.

By getting into hysteria and name calling, we can never change people's ideas. You think, these people are "paid agent" ?

You can never know it, so you can never prove it. Then, let it be. What are you afraid of? If you have a firm conviction that you are right and your belief are solid, then, confront them by valid statements and logical methode. Why name calling and threat?

This will only hold them back from coming here, but their opinion will stay alive, moved to somewhere else. Then you would have done nothing  constructive, just a waste of the time for yourself and for other people who might have been able to benefit from your greater ideas.

My two cents.

By the same token, I do

By the same token, I do hope DHS is monitoring this site and taking notes before anoter Gelareh is Perished. One can only hope.... 

 A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

 Iraj khan: I just saw

 Iraj khan: I just saw your desparate  accusations to incriminate me in something I have never done and will never do.

I have never done any of those things you have mentioned  on your list of drivel because I know if they are terror cells or agents of IRI, they are being watched. It's not up to me. We have DHS who is responsible for identifying terror cells, domestic or foreign.

However, you cannot silence me through your VEVAK tactics on cyber space.

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

Iraj khan: Do you support

Iraj khan: Do you support the IRI?? Do you agree with IRI's domestic and foreign policies??

Do you want IRI to end up in a war with the US, so US will be punished for all of its crimes?? Do you think IRI is capable of defeating "US imperialism" and "liberating the Palestinians"???

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

There's a concerted effort on IC

to single out and shut down anybody who does not agree with a group of commentators here who:

1. Try to discredit any independent voice that does not conform to their goals here.

How do they do it?

a. Discrediting you as a independent thinker by calling you 'IRI' agent.

b. If that doen't work, they try to find out who you are, where you live and where you work. They start their attack by contacting the place where you work and discredit you there.

If you work for a University, they'll contact them and spew all kind of misinformation about you.

If you are a business man/woman they'll try to destroy your business.

How do I know this? By reading this group's comments. There's one who goes by the name of Amir 1970 who would call his opponent terrorist and even asks for that person's deportation.

There's another one who goes by the name of vildemose who threaten the opponent to get his/her account blocked.

There's another one who goes by the name of Anahid Hojjati who does exactly what vildemose prescribes.

These are only a few instances I thought was worth mentioning.

I'm just saying,

Iraj

dear VPK

1) I know you are among the people who don't like verbal attack and accusation and I rarely saw you resorting to this kind of action. I remember well your frequent attempts to invite people to civility in discussing. I had also read that blog which you have mentioned below. I did not say that you were promoting verbal violence. You said it is (unfortunately) inevitable when people have a strong belief. In response, I said : It is not! and it shouldn't be. I said this was not a valid reason. Where did I say that you were in fact encouraging violence. You misunderstood my point.

2) In America, people are always bashing each other, true. In America the degree of physical violence is also the highest. And I am speaking of the stats (%) not only in number.

3) You asked for a study to see the correlation. History is full of those exemple. It suffice to read and dig more about that. For now, there's just a movie which comes to my mind.  It is very good movie "Freedom Writers" which also talks about the origin of "holocost", I belive you will be interested to see:

 //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Writers

Best wishes.

Dear Souri

Again I repeat I was not giving any rules or approving of attacks. For crying outloud I posted a whole blog asking people to stop it! Mammad himself referred to it in his post and here it how do you say I support it.

//iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-kh...

But about your other point I disagree and need to see proof. In America people are always bashing one another in politics. But violence is very rare. Is there a study that shows a correlation you mention. 

I think it is best for people to be free to express their feelings. But personally do not like attacks. On IC we are not supposed to use attacks. But it gets through pretty often. Policy here is not up to me and I have no hand in it.

Dear VPK

It  seems to me that it is you who don't see the obvious, sorry. Verbal attacks will lead to physical attacks. Don't tell me that you have never seen it at any street fight or other occasion?

The whole point is : Not giving room to "attack" of any kind.  We must conrol ourselves and we are able to do this. If we can't control our emotion in front of our PC, far from the opponent, how could we be able of a self-control when we see them physically?

One more about "we" are whatever

Do you folks really think it is possible to say "Iranians" are something. Just reading the varying opinions on IC should tell you this is impossible. How many of you read the blogs about Golshifteh.

We got a huge range from total disgust to full support. With many variations. Is this not proof that it is impossible to define "we". That Iranian people do not have a single opinion. My own family has the full range of opinions.

It is a mistake to assign any qualities to a nation specially a large diverse one. Yes we joke about Rashti; Ghazvini and other group. But they are jokes and an intelligent person knows it.

Souri

I think you misunderstood me completely. I am not defending or excusing attacks; just explaining why you see so much on IC. Besides I am talking about verbal or written attacks not physical ones.

So by this rule, everything done by the fanatic Islamist on the other people, is motivated

By what rule? I never gave a rule. I just said that is the motivation not that it is right. Also the attacks on IC are posts. Do you not see the difference of that and physical attacks? If not I am sorry but you are way off.

Remember 9/11?

Yes and do you compare murder of 3000+ people with an IC post? Are you really saying this or joking.

Dear Mammad, if you happen to read this

Dear Mammad, Thank you for your heartfelt and as usual throrough reply.  I know you may not be reading this, so I will not make it long.  I just want to acknoweldge your message and to say how sorry I am that you feel hurt and un-interested in continuing your presence on Iranian.com.  I have personally learned a lot from you and have consistently admired your patience and tenacity in providing detailed responses to blogs and comments. I wish you would reconsider your decision, as without you, Iranian.com will never be the same.

Dear friends;

Jirandoust : Many thanks for your valuable words. You are absolutely right that some people try everything to make us leave, from accusation to  the intimidation. I agree that we must resist, but also from a human point of view, each person has its own threshold of patience. Overpassing that threshold, is something dangerous for our mental health and well being. I am very glad to see the intelligent and pacifist members like you count among the majority of iranian.com users.

VPK:  Your statement hear is absolutly false:

 "People with strong beliefs are vocal and attack each other. I wish it was more civil but it is not."

This is not a valid argument. I attack others because I believe firmly that I am right? Really?
So by this rule, everything done by the fanatic Islamist on the other people, is motivated. What you mean by you wish it was civil, but it is not? Remember 9/11?
Are you sure you are not taking side for some special friends? BTW, this blog is not a poll to vote for the best and worst comment. I wish you would abstain from just nominating a person' comment as good or bad, we don't need this. We have our own capacity of judgment. What we need is your own opinion not a vote, please. Thank you very much for the contribution.

Tiger Lili : Thanks for coming here. Dear, I was following that thread and actually if I may, I would say that to me, your comments to Mammad sounded offensive. I don't know what made you  believe that Mammad needs your help?
Did he ask for that? What kind of help you were meaning ? I'm still puzzled. I wish we all could understand each other's sensitivity. This is not so much complicated. We do not gather here to offer flowers to each other, but it is not needed to hurt each other ego to win a debate. Is it really?  Thanks for your sincere contribution.

Mammad

Have you ever thought that the your quitting IC is exactly what those people want? They are trying to kick you out by tactic of intimidation and you are doing just that, quitting.

Keep writing my friend. We need your voice of reason here!

Simply one of the best blogs

Simply one of the best blogs I have read recently on IC.  You brought up points that have been on the minds of most people on this site, including myself. Thank you Souri Khanom!

Mammad

Just a response about people attacking you and others. Please remember people on IC are generally very opinionated or they won't be here. Just go read Huffington Post or other blogs and see the same behavior.

People with strong beliefs are vocal and attack each other. I wish it was more civil but it is not.

There is no "we"

I do not think it is possible to group Iranians as a "we". Hence the question is meaningless and any response is also without merit. Imagine if I asked "are days warm?". Some days are and some are not.

People are individuals. Therefore different people have their own values. Some are peaceful; others are not. Not just that but the degree varies. My brother is a pacifist; I am not. 

Regarding the responses I have read a few intelligent response like G Rahmanian. Many really silly ones like Salman; 2050 and others who think they know "us". Right one person really gets to define what all "Iranians" are.

Mammad, my offers of help might very well be

very badly targeted, but I , for one , can't see any insult in towards you , in any of my posts.

But you see, this  post of yours below, is precisely, an example of what I meant. Maybe, I just expect more of you.( I don't often, in fact rarely, even bother to get into debates on this site, in a serious manner.) Its nothing but gossip. 

It's best that you reread my posts to you. They were in fact very well-meant. 

The fact is that it is very obvious that your heart is in the right place, but you haven't got a clue about any of the tools, in the context of an international political sense, to portray them. 

If you bothered to familialize yourself with at least some political theory, your posts and articles would carry weight. 

What would be so wrong for all of us, especially with a so-far open internet access, to read, read, read?

If you don't understand what I've just typed, but instead decide to be insulted, so be it. I've done my bit and it may well be the wrong bit.

P.S. Maybe gossip is what is needed within Iranian politics. I really do not know, as such. This is what I was trying to say.

Your post on this blog is a primary example of no value towards a debate, but just gossip. 

Souri Khaanoum

First of all, get well.

I had told a friend that I am so disappointed in IC that I may never comment here again. But, after reading your blog and your exchange with Anglophile regarding me, let me say a few things:

In my view it is useless to debate with people like him/her. Let's see, for example, what happened between me and him/her.

First, in another thread he/she basically told me that I had no right to say that people like me have felt the pain inflicted on the people by the VF regime by their own blood and flesh.

After I responded and explained why, he/she came back and gave me a long lecture that had nothing to do with his/her original comment. Not only that, he/she had the audocity of telling me that I did not feel the pain - a deeply and purely personal matter - deeply enough because if I did I would subscribe to his/her ideology and "repent" for my support of the 1979 revolution. You see, when people link something so deeply personal and painful to the satisfaction of their own ideological thirst, you know that it is useless to debate with them.

He came back and wanted to "debate" again. Given that I am a teacher, and that I like to teach and learn, I responded to his/her comment, although in hindsight I should not have done so. Once again, he/she came back with a response that had nothing to do with his/her original post, and was completely insulting.

First, he had the audacity of telling me that I am not a scientist. And, to demonstrate his/her knowledge, he/she mentioned a course in pet. eng. at my university. Aside from everything else - including the facts that I do even not teach pet eng., that 2/3 of my over 350 scientistic papers have been published in science not engineering science, journals; that my "best seller book" that has been cited over 1100 times is about math and physics not eng., and that I have received awards from national and international science, not engineering science, organizations for my science work [I am sure that he/she will say I am boasting, but stating documented facts is not boasting, but if it is, so be it] - one should ask: Who are you - a person hiding behind a bogus name with no information whatsoever about yourself and your scientific qualifications - to pass such judgement - and then call that, in his/her exchange with you Souri khaanoum, an "unfortunate aspect of democracy," instead of apologizing or expressing regrets over what he/she has done, in response to a comment that, right or wrong, had nothing to do with whether I am a scientist or not? No, this is not democracy in my view, this is what we say in Persian "teror-e shakhsiat."

In my response to him I said that I know Iran's power structure, and he does not. Aside from the fact that I have a long track record on this that is constantly cited by others [can easily be checked through Google], and he/she, at least under his/her bogus name, does not, in response he/she attacks me again, and brings in two people that have nothing to do with his/her comment or mine, namely, Sazegara and Ganji, claims that the former is my "pal," and that I do not know more than them [not him/her though!]. Did I say that I do, regardless of whether I do or not? But, let us say that I boasted. Does that justify a response that not only is devoid of facts and has nothing to do with the issue, but is also totally insulting and deeply personal?

He/She is not the only one. Lady vildemose has called me everything under the sun, and so also have GR and a couple of others. After my exchange with Anglophile, GR called me "dumb" in his latest round of insult. TL claims that he wants to "help" me - never mind that I did not ask for it - but is in fact full of insult.

A while ago, VKP posted a blog in which he invited people to be civil to each other. Most of the people who attack me claimed that they are "with him" on this. Barely 1-2 months later, hamaan aash ast-o hamaan kaaseh!

As a teacher, as someone who likes good, constructive debates, and as someone who believes that we should learn and read history as it has happened, in order to learn the right lessons from it to move forward, I never turn down a good debate. But, I no longer feel that IC is a place where one can do such things. It is truly a waste of time to comment here.

Many readers of IC have written to me personally, both in the past and in the last 1-2 days, asking me not to give up commenting here, because like you they observed what was being done. But, when the only response that one gets is screams, insults, and deeply personal attacks that even question how I feel about the loss of my loved ones at the hands of the very same regime that they claim to oppose - and all because I have a different view that them - what is the use?

Mammad

P.S.: I will not come back to this thread to read any response, Souri khaanoum. If you care to say something to me, you know where you can find me. I am simply too disgusted with all of this.

The buck stops with JJ

This isn't a democratic site, by any stretch of the imagination.

It does, however, display and encourage some democratic values, but mostly at the expense of many other precious ones, the most important ones.

Dear anglophile

Thanks for the reply.

Now, I understand better where you come from.

Still, if I may, I wish to ask you to reconsider your methode again. You have great knowledge from which we can all benefit, but if you express them in a sharp language, it will be so irritating that people don't want to continue the debate. I hope you will understand my point. We need a better climate in this site for a better exchance of ideas.

We need your cooperation to build this climate at IC. We all have to work on it, together. Respects.

Mammad

He has been under sustained attacks.

Why? 

Because he tells it as it is, without self-censorship.

He is well-informed about the subjects he discusses here.

He's got integrity.

He is passionate about his beliefs and stands up to those who try to discredit, humiliate or shut him down.

I'm just saying,

Iraj

Dear Bavafa

Please accept my apologies for not having responded to your beautiful comment, sooner. I am really sorry. I don't know why, but somehow I had missed your comment in this blog.

Thank you so much for the time and the nice comment.

Dear Souri Banoo

Dears;

Anglophile : thanks for your input. I am flattered you call me Banoo, each time :) But if I may, I want  respectfully to mention that this blog was also addressed to you. I consider you as a very well informed and knowledgable member among us. But I am so much disappointed when I see your agressive side and your heavy tone and language toward the opposing ideas. For exemple, your encounter with Mammad, was so much unfair. You went even over the very personal family matters in his life. It was heart breaking to read those accusations, while I always known Mammad as a very civil and integrated user. Despite his different views and values, he never resort to name calling and stay always very cool and civilized to the people. I believe that was not nice of you. Indeed, this behavior, will only cut the stream of communication, but  will not change people's ideas, hence it is useless. Much respects.

AO: Thanks for your input.

Iran 2050 : Thank you so much for the encouragement. I am glad that I was able to prove the points of this blog. 

Souri, It's refreshing to

Souri,

It's refreshing to see an Iranian with the common sense level to actually tell you "Thanks for your contribution. Respects." although you said "I don't agree with what you said."

Very refreshing and encouraging. This is a civilized peace loving Iranian. I hope we have more and more people like you in our society.

Two best comments on this blog

the one by Salman Farsi and the other by Anglophile.  

Also, another Iranian problem: Xenophobia.     

فرهنگ ضعیف کشی

تاریخ ملت ما تاریخ تسلیم در برابر قوی و زور گویی به ضعیف است. در برابر مقدونیان، اعراب و مغول و تاتار تسلیم شدیم ولی‌ از شاه عباس  گرفته تا نادر شاه و آغا ممد قجر  تا جمهوری اسلامی فوج فوج از خودمون آدم کشتیم. تازه دوتا هم که مثل اون پدر و پسر پیدا میشن (که یک صدم قبلی‌ها آدم نکشتن) این همه بشون بد و بیراه میگیم. حالا شما بفرمأیین ما ملت کجامون صلح دوست هست؟ 

Thanks to all

For your time and contribution.

Dear Irajkhan: I always enjoy reading your comments. Despite our many differences in views, we share the same interests for our country, means peace and progress. Thank you so much for being there.

Dear Amirkabir: You said "we never had the opportunity to practice democracy and free speech to its full extend."

But the people who contribure in this site, are mostly the resident of the West. They have been living in democratic lands for since a while. If they haven't yet learned to practice democracy, it means they will never do! I can't take this, as a valid reason.

Salman farsi and Iran 2050: Thanks for your contribution. I don't agree with what you said. Respects.

Yes we are,

as Mr Farhadi said it

in front of 16 million viewers during the Golden Globe ceremonies.

Yes we are peace loving people, why? 

Lets watch the movies made by our great filmmakers such as Kiarostami's, Panahi's, Farmanara's, Baizai's,..(add your own to the list)

Yes we are peace loving people as it's evident in the works of our great poets such as Shamloo, Hafez, Molana, Sepehri,..

Why are we peace loving people they may ask?

Look at our history, all the invasions by the Greeks, Arabs, Moghols, Russians, Turks and the colonial powers. 

And I believe you're a peace loving soul too.

Excelllent blog Souri. Thanks for your sincerety in this 'Ashofeteh Bazaar' called IC.

Many Iranians are

Many Iranians are “laat” (thugs). This “laat baazi” mentality is killing Iran. Thuggery is not peace-making that’s for sure. That’s what IRI illustrates, pure “laat baazi” .

Many Iranians are also dishonest when it comes to trade, when it comes to expressing true intentions to others, when it comes to dealing and treating others. Many of them don’t have any remorse using trickery to climb up. Iranians use trickery more than many other nationalities.

Iranians are also imperialistic and extremely racist and bigot. They think the world surrounds around them, they think their civilization and culture are flawless and everyone is inferior to them. They want to rule the world. They are still looking for a Koroush-like figure to invade the world like Koroush did and give them back what they perceive as their “lost territory”. All those are not recipes for “peace loving” or “peace making”.