Musings of a former chicken

Dear Parham

Dear Parham,

I fully agree with everything you wrote.

Ba sepaase faravan,

Masoud

Dear Masoud

I read your message with attention and I thank you for it -- points well taken. I do believe there are a few things I need to clarify on the subject:

1- My one-word message below was solely in reaction to what Fred had written here in his blog -- I was not aware that this was part of a bigger scheme (if there is one) attacking "pro-democracy forces" as you call it. I have however, noticed since I posted that message that there is sort of an online quarrel between him and you all.

2- My reply below means that I agree with the fact that about the only known person who stood up for Sh. Bakhtiar in those days was Mahshid Amirshahi -- it doesn't mean anything else.

3- I'm not sure if the scenario you draw with Bakhtiar succeeding, the Shah coming back and the army taking over would have been the way things would have happened. I cannot re-dream history as accurately as that. However, I do believe that where Bakhtiar was right was where he actually took responsibility if only to show to the future (us/now) that it is still possible to stand tall on a shipwreck that's sinking and show that it's possible to actually have democracy in Iran -- something that would have been denied by many stating that "there has been no point in history where Iran has had democracy, therefore it is unachievable." Where he also was right, was where he foresaw the future and put up a fight, something nobody else did, at least not for the installment of democracy.

4- Dr. Sanjabi's short-sightedness has been criticized by many, and I believe there is truth to that criticism to a certain point. However I think Dr. Sanjabi just saw the crowds and thought "this is what people really want and as we stand with/for the people, this is what we also want." There is nothing wrong with thinking that. Just that he hadn't had any insight on Khomeyni's wickedness, something Bakhtiar had. That's all. In short, he believed, like SO many others, in Khomeyni's lies.

5- I have nothing against you or JM, or as a matter of fact, ANY genuine pro-democracy "force". As long as you are for democracy in Iran, you're walking the same way I am. This is beside the respect I have for you and your organization anyway.

So no problem! I hope this redefines the framework of my reply below/where I'm coming from to you.

Perhaps I should also add that I don't know if Fred is a Mossad agent. If he is, there has been a lack of insight on my behalf! However, I have seen many sensible things said by Fred here that I haven't seen said by many others (not meaning you), all for democracy as well; for which I must thank him. I am sure there are points Fred and I wouldn't agree on too...

The message is: If we all truly want democracy, can't we ALL get along?

All the best to you, my friend.

پرسش ساده ای که فرد جواب نمی دهد.

 چون فرد پس از سوال من ۲ پست روزانه خود را ارسال کرد، و در همین نوشته
خود را جویای حقیقت نامید، نمی دانم چرا از پاسخ به پرسش من طفره می رود؟ 
نقش اسراییل در ساختن بند ۲۰۹ و همکاری آن حکومت با دستگاه سرکوب ساواک چه
بوده؟   پس شما فقط دنبال حقیقت مصلحتی هستید.
اما در نقش جبهه ملی  -- معما چو حل گشت آسان شود--
فرد که هر روز بالای  منبر می نشیند  و از "چپول" و "ملی" و "ملی مذهبی" و
"اصلاح طلب" و "توده ای"و "مسلمان" خوش می گوید،   ای بابا - اینگونه که
فرد می گوید، علی (مردخای؟) می ماند و حوضش(رضا پهلوی)؟ مگر اینکه همه
اینها را ایرانی ندانیم و فقط "فرد" را؟ 
چگونه است که  بازرگان را گیج می نامد، همان کسی که در دهه ۴۰ به شاه گفت
به مشروطه بر گرد، و گرنه گروه بعدی دیگر از طریق صلح آمیز با تو مقابله
نخواهند کرد- -که این گونه هم شد--  و بعد ها هم گفت که مهمترین عامل روی
کار آمدن اسلامیون --رستاخیز و شاه بود.
مشکل "فرد"  این است که از قرار معلوم با همه هوش و ذکاوتی که دارد از درک
رابطه  علت و معلول عاجز است.   سحابی را در ۵۷ محکوم می کند، در حالیکه
صحبتی از سحابی ۳۲ که به مصدق می گفت اینها دراولین فرست حکومت ملی را
واژگون خواهند کرد و --درست هم گفت بود-- نمی کند.
حقیقت این است که خروج ۵۷ شاه از ایران و برگشت او  سابقه قبلی داشته،
وسنجابی    که تجربه کودتای  ۳۲ را با چشم خود دیده و پوست خود لمس کرده
بود، چگونه میتوانست  به توبه گرگ اعتماد کند؟  اینکه از دامن گرگ به دامن
دراکولا افتاد در پایین بررسی می کنیم:
++++++++++++++++
جامعه بشری همواره بین ارتکاب خطای --سهوی-- و --عمدی-- تفاوت قائل است. 
در سیستم های قضایی جهان فرق است بین یک نفر که در اشتباه رانندگی موجب مرگ
کسی میشود، و کسی که نقشه می ریزد  و دیگری را به قتل می رساند.   با
اینکه نتیجه یکی است، ولی ما انسان ها --نیت-- را در بررسی عمل انجام شده
بررسی می نماییم.  در مورد رهبران و افراد تاثیر پذیر، این اشتباهات می
تواند اثرات بسیار مخربی داشته باشد.  ولیکن  یک  عامل را باید در نظر
گرفت:   عکس العمل او که مرتکب اشتباه شده به اشتباه خود چه بوده؟
در این مورد، بازرگان -- خود-- پس از گروگان گیری و حرکات مداخله جویانه
خمینی -- از کار خود استفا داد.  سنجابی - از بازرگان فراتر رفت ودر نهایت 
مجبور به فراراز ایران  شد.
در تجارب انقلابات دنیا، اینکه گروهی دور هم جمع می شوند و پس از بیرون
راندن حاکمین خود به لحاظ تفاوت های عمیق دچار مشکل می شوند، مسئله جدیدی
نیست.   انقلاب فرانسه بهترین نمونه آن است.  ولی کیست که انقلاب فرانسه را
علیرقم نابسامانی های آن که سالها به طول کشید تا به مسیر درست بیافتد  از
بن محکوم کند؟  پس چرا "فرد" اینگونه کینه توزانه با افرادی که در انقلاب
-- نه سود شخصی خود را دنبال میکردند و نه هدفی غیر از سعادت ایران داشتند،
وزمانی که کج روی  حاکمین تمامیت خواه را دیدند بلافاصله راه خود را از
آن  جدا کردند- برخورد می کند ؟
اینکه  "فرد" برای مقاصد خود،  اکنون حتی طرفداران  مصدقی  را  به دو
قسمت "خودی" "ناخودی" تقسیم می کند،  شاید در درجه اول بر می گردد به اینکه
برای ایرانیان حق انتخاب  واقعی قائل نیست؟  این روز ها ملاحظه کردن فیلم
از تهران به قاهره خیلی برای من جالب است.  آنگونه که خود فرح اذهان دارد،
شرایط کاملا خارج از کنترل بود، و بختیار هم تنها کسی بود که این شغل را
پذیرفت.   از گفته فرح معلوم است و او تکرار می کند که اگر شاه نباشد،
فرزند او هست و اگر رضا نباشد  دیگر فرزندان و حتی به گونه ای که پیش می
رود می گوید که حتی اگر فرزندان ما هم نباشند دیگر افراد در خانواده هستند
.... پس مشخص است که -- بختیار-- قرار است عامل --موفقتی برای بیرون رفتن
از مخمصه باشد.  همان گونه که قوام یا امینی بودند. .  پس نگرانی ملیون 
بیهوده هم نبوده.    در این میان فقط علم غیب یا علم "فرد" می خواست که
بداند خمینی هرچه از آزادی در فرانسه می گفت دروغ بود، و موج مردمی که از
شاه بی زار بودند را ملیون باید ترک می کردند و به شاهپور بختیار می
پیوستند که
در این میان و ۳۳ سال بعد، خیلی چیزها می توانست --متفاوت-- از آنچه اتفاق
افتاد - می شد.  برای مثال اگر همان اول بجای پس از ۸ سال خمینی مرده
بود؟   اگر گروگان ها گرفته نمی شدند؟

.....

ایران برای همه ایرانیان

دولت ایرانیان - فقط با رای ایرانیان

نه ولایت وقیح نه پادشاه سفیه

Dear ROOG and Parham

Dear ROOG,

Does this answer your question and concern?

//jebhemelli.net/htdocs/Views/2012/MehmaneshH_Democracy.html

Best,

Masoud

===============================

Dear Parham,

1. Please Ms. Mahshid Amirshahi’s very strong attack on the monarchists.

//www.amirshahi.org/NEW/farmoodid.htm

2. Ms. Amirshahi is affiliated with the Iran Liberal Party, whose two top leaders are Dr. Kamran, Behgar. The ILP is close to us. See:

//www.iranliberal.com/detail.php?id=136

3. This is the solidarity message from Hassan Behgar, of the leaders of ILP:

//iranazad.info/jebhehkharej/jkh11/06/14payamhabekongreh.htm

4. Now imagine that Dr. Bakhtiar fully succeeded and in a few months calm was restored. The Shah NEVER abdicated and had only gone on a vacation and he was in constant contact with his supporters inside Iran. The Shah would come back. Would the Shah retain Bakhtiar or would he do as he did with Qavam and Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi? Did the Shah ever respect the Constitution or did he always and consistently an absolutist king? In a confrontation between the Shah and Bakhtiar would the armed forces side with the Shah or Bakhtiar? And if Ms. Mahshid Amirshahi wrote the above article, would the Shah and the armed forces respect her right of free expression or they would do to her what they did to Karimpour Shirazi and Dr. Hossein Fatemi??????

My friend Parham,

The reason that Ms. Mahshid Amirshahi is alive is that Dr. Bakhtiar did not succeed. If Dr. Bakhtiar had succeeded, the result would have been the return of the fascist monarchists to power, and if Ms. Mahshid Amirshahi wrote what she did, she would have been jailed, tortured, raped, and murdered by our monarchists as they did repeatedly to any poor soul who wrote a criticism one-hundredth milder than what she wrote against the monarchists.

Khomeini’s success resulted in the deaths of Sadegh Ghotbzadeh, Dariush Forouhar, and Parvaneh Forouhar. Had Dr. Sanjabi not escaped, he would have been executed by Khomeini. Dr. Bakhtiar’s success would have resulted in the deaths of Bakhtiar and Ms. Amirshahi. That is the logic of the division of pro-democracy forces and the strength of the dictatorial forces (monarchists and fundamentalists).

The solution is the unity of the pro-democracy forces so that we would not be victimized by the fascist monarchists and fundamentalists.

Fred has been viciously attacking various wings of the pro-democracy Iranians. Why? Let me speculate.

Either Fred is a simple pro-Israeli dude or he is an agent of Mossad. If Fred is simply a person who writes as he wishes, then no problem. They would be sources of information, analysis and even entertainment (and sometimes outrage). But if Fred is an agent of Mossad, there are serious policy consequences. Let me explain.

Mossad agents get their instructions from the Mossad leadership. Mossad leaders get their instructions from the Israeli government. Reza Pahlavi has been very close to the Israeli government from the get go (overtly and covertly). About 2 months ago, Reza Pahlavi publicly asked for help from the Israeli government in his radio interview. I suppose the Israeli help come in various forms. One form would be covert funds to Reza Pahlavi. Another would be overt and covert Israeli help to Reza Pahlavi in propaganda so that he could undermine his rivals. Monarchists lack both brain and supporters. Mossad could engage in activities to help the monarchists by supporting him and attacking the opponents of Reza Pahlavi. Here enters Fred and others here and elsewhere in the past 2 months in support of Reza Pahlavi and vicious attacks on pro-democracy Iranians (JM, INF, democratic left that supports Mossadegh, and other Mossadeghi forces).

The Pahlavis have a long history of collaboration with foreign intelligence services against democratic Iranians. For example, Mohammad Reza Shah in 1941-42 asked for help from the UK and US in becoming absolutist king and in exchange he would serve their interests. In 1953 coup, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi collaborated with the CIA and MI6 against JM-Mossadegh.

Mossad has a long history in Iran and long collaboration with the Shah. Mossad trained SAVAK agents. We all know that SAVAK was responsible for imprisonment, torture, rape, and murder of the Iranian people. There was a prolonged collaboration between SAVAK and Mossad and other Israeli intelligence services.

The Israeli government also had close cooperation with the racist apartheid regime in South Africa. There was close collaboration between various Israeli agencies and the racist apartheid regime.

The Israelis also had close cooperation with the right-wing death squads in Latin America.

In their collaboration with the Shah, the CIA and MI6 engaged in character assassination of Dr. Mossadegh and other JM leaders. They spread lies about Mossadegh. Now, we see that Fred is using vulgar insults against our pro-democracy leaders.

The Israeli government and Mossad will do what they consider to be in the national interest of Israel: whether to train the Pahlavist SAVAKi torturers and rapists or help the racist apartheid regime or ....

One of the tactics that the CIA and MI6 did was to DIVIDE the JM and isolate Mossadegh. One of the tactics that Mossad could use (or already is using) is to DIVIDE the pro-democracy forces and isolate the most respected and the largest pro-democracy party in Iran (JM and INF).

I would like to plead with you to PLEASE think about what is in the best interests of the Iranian pro-democracy forces? Is it for the various wings of the Mossadeghi forces to be fighting each other? Or it is in the best interests of democracy that various pro-democracy forces cooperate with each other?

Please read the very short articles by Dr. Mehmanche that I included for our friend ROOG:

//jebhemelli.net/htdocs/Views/2012/MehmaneshH_Democracy.html

Dr. Mehmaneche was a close friend and adviser of Dr. Bakhtiar. He is now one of the three elected members of INF-OA Executive Committee. This means that he is one of the top 3 leaders of INF-OA. Other top leaders of NAMIR such as Hamid Sadr are also elected members of the INF-OA Central Committee.

I personally disagree with the interpretation of Dr. Mehmanche and Sadr and other members and friends who think that Dr. Bakhtiar was right. My analysis was, and is, that Dr. Bakhtiar was wrong. And that by November-December 1978, it was too late to save the situation. And that if there was ANY chance, it would have been if Sanjabi and the entire JM along with Bazargan and his NA could have formed a government. But this is my analysis. What REALLY MATTERS is that TODAY all the Mossadeghi forces to work together and form a broad alliance that could fight against other dictatorial forces such as fundamentalists and monarchists.

The process of coalition building is not easy among Iranian activists. It needs to be nurtured. There are many malevolent forces that want to divide us. The success of anti-democratic forces such as fundamentalists and monarchists is based on the division and weakness of the Mossadeghi forces. Every single one of us, has to be aware of the threats to us. We need to think long-term. We should be aware that the anti-democratic forces will try to manipulate our emotions and demagogue the old issues to DIVIDE us.

Democracy in Iran could best (or only) be established by democrats. Dictatorial forces could not establish democracy: it is not part of their ideology or their interests. If you and I want democracy, we have to learn to be aware of the tactics used by the likes of Mossad to manipulate the emotions of various groups and individuals. We should learn from the lessons of 1953 so that we would not fall for the similar tactics by Mossad in 2012.

The most likely way (if not the only way) that democracy is going to be established in Iran is by us. The ONLY way that we could do this is by our UNITY. Pro-Mossadegh forces are diverse. Some are centrists, some are left, some are right, some are religious, and some are secular. These varieties could be sources of strength or weakness. If we learn to respect the diversity among us, they will be our strengths. If we let the nefarious forces to DIVIDE us, they will be sources of weakness.

If the anti-democratic forces succeed in dividing us, the results will be the crushing of democracy in Iran. This is what the Pahlavist savages want. This is what Mossad (Reza Pahlavi’s ally) would want to do.

It is the responsibility of you and I and all others who care about democracy, civil liberties, and human rights to be aware of the nefarious activities of the anti-democratic forces. It is OUR responsibility to work with each other and not allow these nefarious anti-democratic forces to DIVIDE us.

If you look at this site and almost all other similar venues, there has been a massive effort to attack Mossadegh, JM, and INF. Part of that effort is the natural fights between the monarchists and the pro-democracy forces and individuals. Perhaps, more sinister and nefarious being conduced by Mossad in helping Reza Pahlavi and monarchists. It stinks and it look fishy. Just look at the many weird articles and posts by several on this site alone. Just look at some of the blogs Fred has been writing in the past month or two. It was part of his writings to attack Shariati. But I do not recall Fred attacking supporters of Mossadegh such as JM, INF or leftists. Certainly Fred was not engaged in a persistent campaign of repeatedly (and out of the blue and unprovoked) to attack JM, INF, and the leftists who support Mossadegh. May be he is just doing weird stuff. Or if he is a Mossad agent, this has been his new instructions. In my opinion, Fred is too smart and too sophisticated to all of the sudden change his MO and for no apparent reason begin to viciously attack the pro-Mossadegh forces.

You are a thoughtful person. Please think about my concerns. Please think long term. Please try to consider how our emotional buttons could be pushed and our emotions manipulated. Please think who benefits and who loses when there the various Mossadegh forces are divided. I hope that you think about my concerns.

Best regards my friend,

Masoud

Jibberish

Why would anyone DEMOnstrate so much jibberish when he knows the audience is just not interested? Getting paid would be a possible incentive!?

Simply a very high statistical likelihood

Nothing is certain by any means. Republics can end up in dictatorships as well. However, in Iran, the statistical likelihood of dictatorship is much greater with a monarchy than a republic, in my opinion. I am not willing to take the higher risk for the little gain.

Do you know about Entropy, the second law of thermodynamics? In politics, a similar law exists, which dictates that the path of least resistance is to dictatorhip unless checks and balances are in place, much like adding energy to any physical system to keep it is order. We absolutely need those checks and balances.

The Fear Harbour

"People are not made by the systems, they are the system makers."

Could not say it any better. And that is exactly what the Doctors of Religion do not understand when it comes to changing the systems. They instead harbour fear among the 'Sheepole' by applying their own learnt religousity & by issuing laws of their own under the name of GOD. And that is why they have been failing with their efforts throught the history over & over again.  

'........GOD does not change what is in a nation unless they change what is in themselves...........' (Quran 13:11)

If you still harbour such fears as:

• Due to historical and cultural reasons in our country any monarch has a high likelihood of becoming a dictator.

• Due to religious and historical reasons unless separation of religion
  and state is guaranteed in the constitution, we also have a high
  likelihood of religious inequality and theocracy.

Then this nation is NOT ready for either democracy or/and secularism.

If you (and I mean you as a representative of the public) still fear that a monarchy may slip into tyranny, then you cannot guaranttee that a republican system would stay clear of such possiblty. People are not made by the systems, they are the system makers.

Secularism

I believe the main legacy of bakhtiar was secularism. The current JM coalition rightly rejects any notion of a dictator, whether a Shah or Valieh Faghih. They regard the acceptance of 28 Mordad events as a paramount historical milestone signifying our people's quest for democracy.

I believe JM should add to 28 Mordad the events of 1979 revolution and Bakhtiar's premiership as a paramount historical milestone signifying secularism. 

They hold sacred the 2 issues of Independence and Democracy as the requirements for their political umbrella. I believe they should add secularism to these principles. Due to historical and cultural reasons in our country any monarch has a high likelihood of becoming a dictator. BUT also due to religious and historical reasons unless separation of religion and state is guaranteed in the constitution, we also have a high likelihood of religious inequality and theocracy.

this secularism is demanded by our people. Unless JM awakens to this reality and rejects any notion of religous politics, they are missing the aspirations of our people.  

Shame on These Barbarc Islamists who

Killed the BEST of IRANIANS.  Shame on JMs who betrayed Dr. Bakhtiar.

Mrs. Amirshahi, Great Shir Zan e IRAN, Drood bar Shojaatat.

این منم، که من منم! تاریکفکران جیغ جیغو!

به محض اینکه قمرالملوک وزیری نوای خود را با «من صدایم را....» شروع کرد کار تمام است و تبدیل میشود از یک خواننده خوش آوا به یک تاریکفکر جیغ جیغو! روح الله خمینی هم وقتی در بهشت زهرا جیغ تاریخی خود را کشید که «من توی دهان ....» همه را کر کرد  و بقیه حرفهاش زننده شد و غیر قابل شنوا. شاپور بختیار هم خود از همان طایفه «منم منم» خمینی بود و فرقی با دیگر «منان» نداشت.  آخر بابا تا کی منم منم کردن. بس است دیگر. «شما» را نمیدانیم ولی «ما» که خسته شدیم بخدا.

دست بزنید

الحق

الحق