حقیقـت چیست - واقعیـت کجاست

حقیقـت چیست - واقعیـت کجاست
by مسعود از امریکا
14-Apr-2009
 

دوستان، در این ٤-٣ روز گذشته، بحثی داغ در مورد چند چیز، بین دوستان بهایی از یک طرف، و اقای نور از طرف دیگر، انجام شد. دوستان دیگر هم در این بحث شرکت کرده، و نظراتشان را دادند. من در این بلاگ، نتیجه گیری این بحث ها را میکنم، به امید اینکه، منفعت داشته باشد. من می خواهم شخصا، از تمام دوستانی که در این بحث ها شرکت کردند، تشکر کنم - موفق باشید!

 

           *          *          *

 

ای برادر، این حقیقت چیست، و ان واقعیت کجاست
    من میطلبم، بر من گو، کاین حقیقت چیست، و ان واقعیت کجاست

این کس و ان کس، بر من گویند، کاین حقیقت است، و ان
     لیکن ای برادر، من ندانم، کاین حقیقت چیست، و ان واقعیت کجاست

قلب من طلب ان دارد، که بفهمم، کاین واقعیت کجاست
     نه این واقعیت، و نه ان، ای خداوند، لیکن واقعیت تو، کجاست

هر مردی، پیامبری نیست، و هر پیامبری، نه مرد
     این علم تو، کجاست ای خداوند، بر من بگو تو، ای کجاست

چشمان این حقیر بنده را باز کن، ای پروردگار بزرگ
     بر دلم نشان ده، کاین حقیقت تو چیست، و ان واقعیت تو کجاست

 


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more from مسعود از امریکا
 
مسعود از امریکا

دوستان

مسعود از امریکا
Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:55 PM PDT

من از تمام نظراتتون متشکرم - چه خوب، و چه بد; چه زشت، و چه قشنگ! من امیدوارم، همانطور که بعضی ها فرمودند، این قدم اولی باشد برای فهمیدن بهتر همدیگر، که شاید مصالتی هم در اینده برقرار شود. امیدوارم که این بحث را در بلاگ های اینده به صورت مثبت ادامه دهید - با کمال احترام به همه، مسعود


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NUR

Go In Truth 'SP'

by NUR on Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:26 PM PDT

Why? Argue it now with me. This is as good a time as any. 


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IRAN PARAST

Go In Peace 'NUR'

by IRAN PARAST on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:21 PM PDT

I have read your statement. We will argue this some other time .....

Take Care :)

 

 


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NUR

Had you actually paid attention...

by NUR on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:11 PM PDT

...to what I did say and have claimed, perhaps you wouldn't have jumped the gun. Now let me quote Edmund Burke's God-inspired words, one more time at you:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

And say, once more, 

No Peace without Justice!

And my brotherhood has to be earned!


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IRAN PARAST

Dear NUR

by IRAN PARAST on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:04 PM PDT

If you are not claiming to be a Prophet, then in my eyes, you are a brother with me in God's eyes.

I do not intend to argue this issue with you here. As I have said before, I truly would like to maintain the Spirit Of Reconciliation that exists here. Similarly, as I have said before, it is important for me not to violate the respect and honor that exists among the people who have expressed their views.

Again, I would like to wish you Good Luck!

 


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NUR

Jeremiah 14

by NUR on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:03 PM PDT

We Muslims?! You said elsewhere that you are non-religious, but only raised Muslim, after I pointed out your conspicuous Baha'i tone. How, pray tell, did you all of a sudden become part of the ummah and a Muslim? You might note that in both the Torah as well as especially the Qur'an there are also continual refrains about hypocrites (munafiqin) who pretend to be something one day, and something else another day.

As for refrains about false (peace-making) prophets, such as Baha'u'llah, for example, here is Jeremiah (chapter 14):

13  Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them, Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.
 14  Then the LORD said unto me, the prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
 15  Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
 16 

And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem, because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.

-

Nay, I do not preach peace. I preach justice as the necessary prerequisite for peace! Nor have I claimed to be a Prophet (a function which decidedly ended and was thus sealed by Muhammad Rasul'Llah), but rather a Mirror (mirat)!

 


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IRAN PARAST

Dear NUR

by IRAN PARAST on Tue Apr 14, 2009 09:35 PM PDT

Thank you for leaving the quotations from a book in the Old Testament of the Bible, attributed to Solomon. We Muslims, honor and revere all prophets of God, from Abraham, to Moses, Jesus, and others.

However, I would like to remind you that in both the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Bible, there are plenty of refrains, and cautionary notes against False Prophets.

As I have said before, out of respect for others, I am going to leave it at that. I am sure you know what I am talking about.

Good Luck To You :)


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NUR

To SP

by NUR on Tue Apr 14, 2009 09:15 PM PDT

I have found my peace in the realization of my Truth within the Divine and I understand something about its nature that you obviously don't, which is, that there can never be true peace without justice! Peace and Justice are the two wings of the Falcon of Being!

As for my wish, I hope you realize the Truth and also that you and Massoud are far, far from it. Especially  I hope you take on board the immortal, God-inspired words of Edmund Burke:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

I leave you now with the third chapter of the Book of Ecclesiastes, which for small-minded persons such as you and Massoud who are incapable of fathoming the more profound levels  of the nature of antimony and paradox, beautifully puts forth in layman's terms what Truth/Reality is really about:

 

1  To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
 2  a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
 3  a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
 4  a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
 5  a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
 6  a time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
 7  a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
 8  a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
 9  What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboreth?
 10  I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.
 11  He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
 12  I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.
 13  And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labor, it is the gift of God.
 14  I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
 15  That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past. 16  And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.
 17  I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
 18  I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
 19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
 20  All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
 21  Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
 22  Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

 


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IRAN PARAST

Dear NUR

by IRAN PARAST on Tue Apr 14, 2009 07:13 PM PDT

As a form of respect to others, I am going to confine my comment to what has already been said:

We hope that you would ultimately find the peace that you are seeking.

Pure and simple :)

 

 

 


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NUR

Jesus also said in Matthew

by NUR on Tue Apr 14, 2009 07:06 PM PDT

 10:34 Think not that I am come to bring peace on earth: I came not to bring peace, but a sword.

10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

10:36 And a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household.

10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

 


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Agha Massoud

by Mostafa (A Muslim) (not verified) on Tue Apr 14, 2009 05:32 PM PDT

We all hope that Mr. NUR finds the Peace that he is looking for.

At the same time, we also hope that our Bahai friends take note of some of the recommendations that people have made in these discussions, and hopefully incorporate them into their beliefs, and behavior.

Thanks for the blog.


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Massoud Khan

by A Christian (not verified) on Tue Apr 14, 2009 03:07 PM PDT

In the Christian Bible, The New Testament, there is this saying by Jesus:

'Blessed are the peace-makers, for they shall be called the children of God.' - Matthew 5:9

I want you to know that we appreciate your efforts in this direction. Although, the results were not exactly what he had hoped for, nevertheless, it was a step in the right direction.

May God Bless You, and all those who participated in this effort ... Thank you.


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مسعود از امریکا

دوستان

مسعود از امریکا
Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:18 PM PDT


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religious rights and paranoia

by Proud agnostic (not verified) on Tue Apr 14, 2009 06:58 AM PDT

religious rights and paranoia
by Proud agnostic (not verified) on Sun Apr 12, 2009 06:02 PM PDT

thanks Massoud for opening a forum to hear both sides.
here is one from the point of view of a nonpartisan researcher

I know mr NUR will call me a Bahai after my few comments and after regretably yelling on the streets of Tehran oh so many years a go begoo marg bar shah and alaho akbar khomaeini rahbar I wish I had enough sense to be one!
any how hopefully most Bahais and non Bahais realize people like this NUR fellow are barking at the wrong tree and most of us smarter readers are aware of his paranoia...
here are a couple of threads to ponder

//www.bahairights.org/about/

//www.bahairights.org/2009/03/18/debunking-th...


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IRAN PARAST

Dear Massoud

by IRAN PARAST on Tue Apr 14, 2009 06:07 AM PDT

Thank you for the exercise in the past couple of days. I believe that we all learnt something from one another: both good, and bad; and, sometimes pretty, and ugly.

But I guess, that's what life is ......


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