Misc

Dear Jamshid,

I loved everything you wrote!!! As I was reading water was running out from the corner of my mouth!!! But are you sure you are talking about Iran in those days? If so, then what happened to all those incomes? I and millions of others like me didn't see any of that. We were poor. Srugling to stay alive. We would buy a 5cm X 10 cm butter split it in five and eat it with sweet tea. Or we just were not the lucky 1% to be close to Darbar? Yet my father was killed serving Goverment of pahlavi when I was 6 !!! If in fact most people were living such a beautiful life as you describe it, there wouldn't be a revolution! Obviously as usual monarchis and some oppositions are so disconnected with the majority in Iran that even if they fight for a million years, they won't get any results. Then they complain, why after 30 years they haven't been able to change anything.
Regards

Re: Mammad

You named a bunch of people around RP whom you consider corrupt. First of all what is it with all these initializations? I only got DH, even then I am not sure if he is who you intended. Why can't you spell them out so that there are no doubts? Do you really know who they are, or are you just inventing initials?

After you spelled them out, explain why do you think they are "corrupt". If you cannot explain why they are corrupt, then you are just spreading lies. That would make YOU corrupt.

Earlier you complained about name calling and labeling. But here you are name calling and labeling others. Isn't that what corrupt hyprocrites do?

Or are you "entitled" to do exactly the same things that you criticize others for doing?

Re: Mammad

Mammad, you wrote, "I have said nothing about being a scientist. Why do you have to bring it up? "

Excuse me? Wasn't it YOU who kept bringing it up, again and again, that you are a scientist, in many of your comments?

Quote: "the Shah did some good things, such as giving women the right to vote"

Was that the "only" good thing the shah did? We have talked about many wrong things he did, but can we now talk about a few good things he might have done too? Can you give me a short list of the "good" things he did?

For example, was "taghzieye raayegaan" a bad thing?

What about having more than 11 million of 12 million school age children in school?

Was the establishment of steel industries a bad or good thing?

What about the building of the nucelar plants? You know all seven of them. Was it a bad thing that we were getting the most modern nculear technology, and training too, instead of outdated Russian technology?

What about the industrial complex of "sar cheshmeh"?

Was having billions of dollars in cash reserve a bad thing?

Do you remember the economical prosperity, the low unemployment rate, the ever growing middle class, the ever decreasing poverty? Were they bad?

Was it bad that Saddam didn't dare to attack Iran? Forget about Saddam, was it bad that even the Soviets had to think twice about it? Was it bad that due to responsible policies, there was no war? That there wasn't even the "prospect" of a war? That there was peace? Were those bad?

Would it be bad if the one million who died or became crippled in a worthless war with Iraq, were alive or healthy today, going about their good lives? You know that would be the case with the pahlavis. Would they that be so bad? Are Iranian's lives and well being any important? Is ideology more important?

Was it bad that all the brains would return or stay in Iran, and therefore contribute to Iran's progress?

What about the petrochemical complex? Take $1 dollar worth of Iranian oil, turn it into petrochemical products and then sell it for $10. Was that a bad idea? Was it an aweful thing, that through responsible foreign policies, Iran could get ANYONE to invest in such infrastrutural work?

And finally, what about Iranians' psyche? Was it bad that everyone, exclcuding the Islamists, was happy, hopeful, and with a positive outlook?

We have talked about the negatives of that regime, but why is it that you become so shy when talking about the good things? Are you biased? Is it "un"-scientific?

UNITY

Dear Setiz, I don't know what you see wrong with mammad's opinion. I almost totally agree with him. About the reform, I don't think khatami was for reform, that is why it didn't have any results. I knew from beginning that was one of rafsanjani's many tricks! Perhaps the university professor (who was about to be hanged) would make a good reformist leader or many other. Even with them still there are ways to push for reform. As I said before, they must show they are on the goverment's side and not trying to invite invaders and make their requests in small increments. I read the list of women right's group in Iran. The list was so long that it will frick out the conservetives. They should start with one or two, so the goverment can digest and not chock on them. Or gays asking for freedom to do each other in public!! Even Iranians who live in west wouldn't like that. Some expect the goverment allow it in Iran. we must also see what kind of freedom we are pushing for! Use common scense with respect to our culture or we will get nothing done. I wrote a bit about the war plan on this site. Titled, OPEC WAS TARGET. please read it. Then Imagine you were the supreme leader in Iran facing these difficulties what would you do? Would you hand the country to the west like shah did? Then we will be slaves. Would you fight them like Khomaini did? Then you will be where we are now or worse! Would you negotiate with them? As they say, or you must be with them "their slave" or against them "enemy". They don't want an independent Iran period, regardless of who the goverment is, even if we just grow vegtebles!!!

In regard to Reza, I read number of reports ,but I do not save them in my computer, just in my memory. As the saying in Iran, Every one can see the tail of the rooster sticking out. In respect to the salary shah deserved as shah or CEO as you put it? He deserved the same salary as the CEO of ENRON!!! Because that is what he did with Iran. He has far more negative point that positive!
Thank you for your comments. I hope our goverment start practicing what they preech and do better for Iranian by giving them at least the very basic freedom that we had 2500 years ago and unite every one before it is too late!!!

Lost Iranian in France

Dear Iranian compatriot:

My apologies for not responding earlier.

If you do a simple search with Reza Pahlavi's name on Google, you will find many articles with many names of people around him. You will find that many of them are either the old officials in the Shah's government, like MG, DH, etc., or people who are opportunistically surrounding him, like AF, ShA, SRS, or people who fantasize about running Iran but have no qualification, like BZB.

I am not in the business of naming names. But, they can easily be identified.

> To Mammad, please provide names

''Fact: He is surrounded by some of the worst, most corrupt people, the relics of the past, who are thirsty for power.''

for the 2nd time :
Please provide names and dates. Sepas gozar misham. If you can't , I'd understand.

But next time , please refrain yourself from making such statement,specially when you add that you'd give details when asked. Thanks

Setiz

Setiz:

It is not a question of sensitivity. When you call a person childish, and having psychological problems, I do not care how you justify it, it is impolite, it is uncivilized, and it is not fair. Your second response, whether I agree with it or not, is what a civilized person should have. So, the question is: Why could you not do this the first time?

Except at the very beginning of posting comments, I have said nothing about being a scientist. Why do you have to bring it up? I invited people to debate my facts, and I said I'll be happy to debate anyone that does so without labeling me, without accusation, without name-calling.

Now, regarding your specific points:

(1) I do not ignore the contributions of the Pahalavis. In my view, Reza Shah did a lot of good things for Iran. In my view, the Shah did some good things, such as giving women the right to vote, but compared to his father, his contributions were negligible. But, being a political person, in my view what Reza Shah did were ruined by his dark rule.

I also do not buy the notion that Iran was hard to rule. These were the same Iran and Iranians that had revolted, advanced the Constitutional Revolution, and set up the first constitutional government in all of Asia, 14 years before Reza Shah appeared on the scene, and 19 years before he became the Shah.

(2) I do not buy your argument. Nelson Mandela was in jail for 30 years, but he was an agel when he was released. That is just one example, out of many. Why do we have to settle for someone who might be an angel compared with Hitler, for example? Besides, we had Mohammad Mosaddegh, far far far better than the Shah as a leader.

(3) How can I not have learned from people's experience during the IRI, when my brother and three first cousins, all between 19 and 24, were executed over just a few months? I have learned with my flesh and blood.

One curious thing is that, I have mentioned this at least twice in the past. You and other people who have attacked me forget or ignore this, but constantly label me as pro-IRI.

(4) Iran's Constitution before the Revolution was quite democratic, if the Shah had carried out the way it was supposed to be, namely, being a figurehead and a symbol. He did not. He supressed all the opposition. Therefore, he was a dictator. Even he himself did not deny it, but his supporters are more catholic than the Pope.

As for his corruption, just like in the IRI, if you wanted to do any significant work in Iran, he and his family had to get a cut. This is not what I say, but what a lot of researchers have said. Do not believe them? Read Amir Asadollah Alam's Memoirs, the Shah's mother's Memoirs, Farah Pahlavi's mother's Memoirs, if you have not, and you will get the picture. That is what I, and any reasonable person for that matter, call corruption.

(5) No, I do not ignore what you said. But, you seem to think that in every revolution, every person who supports it must know everything. That is simply incorrect. Common people are led by leaders - not Mesiah, but leaders. The leaders should know, and they knew. Again, the Shah himself said, "I heard your revolutionary voice."

The legitimate 1979 Revolution was highjacked by extremists. To that extent I agree with you. But, why and how did this become possible?
Because, as I said in my original comment, the Shah had not left any reasonable opposition. He killed them, or jailed them, or silenced them, or forced them into exile.

(6) The Shah's system was incredibly corrupt. I will not yield even a milimeter on this. No, the people would not have supported Ayatollah Khomeini, had they known about the Velaayat-e Faghih. There is no argument about this. But, there are two crucial points here that you either ignore or forget:

(a) We are all equipped with 30 years of hindsight. Hindsight is faboulus!

(b) What happened AFTER the Revolution does NOT delegitimize the Revolution itself.

(7) Why are the education and experience of living in Iran not relevant? In (6) you asked whether people would have supported Ayatollah Khomeini HAD THEY KNOWN about him. Knowledge comes from education, including, but not exclusively, formal, university-level education. There is no way around it.

Why experience matters? There have been just too many such disastrous examples in the past. Juan Peron lived in exile for many years. He was brought back by people of Argentina by a popular revolution, but the result was a catastrophy. And Peron was already a leader when sent into exile.

Look at what Bush says. The man is so out of touch that does not know gasoline is $4 a gallone! And he lives in this country!

I did not shift the blame from the IRI to the Shah. Both have had their shares. But I was talking about the Revolution. The fact that when the Revolution came we had no good leadership was ENTIRELY the Shah's fault.

You want me to purpose a leader? We already have many figures within Iran that are well known, have paid the price for pursuing their goals of a democratic government for Iran, and still live in Iran. Why should RP be any better or better qualified?

Besides, leadership must emerge from within Iran. That will happen when the pillars of democracy - NOGs, political parties, political parties' discipline, etc. - become strong. We already have a strong feminist movement, student movement, labor movement, teachers movement, etc. Yes, every movement, especially at the level of the entire society, requires leadership. But that leadership must emerge within Iran. It takes time for sure, but it will emerge.

Those who do not learn from past mistakes and history are bound to repeat them.

What happened to the hundreds of billions of dollars ...

How sad that these so-called western educated people lie khomeini style and still think that they are contributing anything to future of iran as if we have been starving for lies in the past 30 years and that that has been our only source of problem.

The total Oil revenue, by far the largest source of iranian revenue, from 1905 to 1979 has been around $110 billion. So where did pahlavis get those "hundreds of billions of dollars" that you claim they stole. They must have stolen that from some outside source as iran never had anything near "hundreds of billions of dollars" for them to steal.

UNITY...

Dariush: I am surprised about your questions at the beginning. Of course I do not want any bloodshed for anyone; I simply do not have the right to ask someone else to be harmed, let alone citizens of the country that I have known to care about.

If reform was possible, I would have preferred it. But look at the regime of khatami, it was just another way of prolonging the regime by a stupid smiling insider criminal. He archived nothing, except for possibly a temporary relief.

I want a peaceful transition under a massive popular pressure, along the lines of Gandhi. That is my preference.

As for RP, I don't mind you criticizing him, but objectively. You said:

they see him as an accomplish to billions of dollars his parents stole that belonged to people and are sitting in his accounts, businesses and investments. I suppose you want proof?

Yes I want proof, or else I can accuse anyone of the same misdeeds. You see, anything close to one billion dollars is just far too much, even in the west, to be able to hide, and there is simply no trace of anything like that. Even the islamic republic who tried so hard to produce proof, having had access to all iranian bank and oil industry documents, failed to come up even with an estimate of what shah stole, beyond what Ghotbzadeh claim of $6B in the early days of the revolution. I have heard that RP is very stingy with his money, another indication that we may be talking about something far less than billions that is claimed. I also want you, the accuser, tell me how much the shah of iran deserves (irrespective of his performance, just like any other ruler or even a CEO) for 38 years of ruling a difficult country like iran. I simply have not seen any even half-reliable proof of what shah took and therefore am very reluctant to accuse his son of participating in stealing from the country beyond any reasonable expectations.

Mammad...

Interestingly Jamshid said a lot of what I could say on your specific points; so I won't repeat his rebuttals.

However, you are too sensitive when someone does not agree with you or criticizes your approach. You assume that you are the only scientist and expect that people should accept your argument simply because your peers cheer you. Both your approach and the issues that you raise are self-serving to prove that you have been right from 70's to this point. That simply cannot be. As we discussed elsewhere, there are a number of issues that you totally ignore to prove your points.

(1) You ignore the status of iran pre-pahlavi, and how difficult it would be to rule iran within the blindly religious nature of iranian people. You totally ignore the contributions of pahlavis, including the educational system which you benefited from and educated you only to oppose its architect.

(2) You have not learned much about flaws of ANY system of government, including democracies. Don't you see what nasty characters we have in this world compared to whom shah was a saint, and a barrier to their rise to power, as we have witnessed in the past 30 years. Nice people never win in this game of power and politics.

(3) You have not learned from the devastating experiences of the people of iran and the multi-faceted harm that this regime has brought upon iranians from day 1. You simply lack empathy with people iran, instead you sympathize with your ideology.

(4) You loosely use labels like "dictator" and "corruption" without ever defining them, quantifying them, or comparing them with other systems of government, democratic or not. That is quite convenient for you since you may otherwise be led to an unpleasant conclusions. Those are loaded words, but the question that you should pose to yourself as a scientist is what is exactly this, e.g., "corruption" that I am accusing shah of, what was the extent of it, how did it impact the daily lives of commoners, and how does it compare against corruptions in countries from egypt to saudi, and from britain to america. Otherwise, one can claim that in an ideal world, every single human being is corrupt one way or the other.

(5) You ignore that the well-intentioned opposition in 1979 were such a tiny tiny minority and were dominated by islamists and leftists. They simply vanished right after revolution in a matter of a few days. In the larger scheme of things, those who run into problem with the shah's regime were such a tiny minority that you cannot generalize and assume that people felt like living in a "brutal dictatorship" in shah's regime.

(6) You do not address why islamists and leftists resorted to major major exaggerations and lies to stage their coup. Do you really believe that people would have participated in the revolution if they knew:

(a) the "real" extent of shah's corruption,

(b) the "real" nature of the system that khomeini intended to install, and

(c) the "flawed" nature of any realistic system of government.

(7) Instead you raise issues which are totally irrelevant like the level of education of RP, or that he (like most of us) has been living outside iran, and like. These only muddy the waters and dilute your logic if any.

In other words, you do not evaluate pahlavis based on any realistic assumption. Let's look at one sentence from your last comment that

"...his father - a brutal dictator who is directly responsible for Iran's present state of affairs."

It is not only wrong but simply irresponsible to use blanket labeling for shah who contributed so much to progress of iran despite his short-comings.

In a strict sense, shah was a dictator and did not allow open opposition to his rule. But in the overall scheme of things he was not brutal. Why? Because everything is relative in this world. Yes he killed some 300+ people during his reign (far too many in my book I should add). But let's just see who they were:

(i) One group were executed or died in prison because they opposed him (only). We need to assume them innocent and therefore shah needs to be kept responsible for their deaths.

(ii) Those who were shot in streets, like in siahkal. Well no system, democratic or otherwise, tolerates armed opposition. Remember Waco? So we need to separate this group from those in part (a) above.

You shift blame from IRI to shah to prove that he was worse than what he was. You probably would have blamed reza shah for misdeeds of Ghajar as well if you could somehow shift the blame. You ignore that likes of khamenei and rafsanjani were prisoners of the shah and in opposition to him. Once they came to power, they showed to be far more brutal than shah ever was. Imagine what would have happened if shah had eliminated khomeini in 1963. He (khomeini) would have been viewed as a saint now, we never knew how brutal he (khomeini) was, BUT some half-a-million iranian lives would have been saved and a much larger number of families had not been harmed in so many ways. That is what makes an objective analysis so difficult and your approach so simplistic and flawed.

You also ignore than ANY system of government is flawed. In fact, shah was more of an authoritarian system resembling democracies in the extent of his crimes than a dictatorship, like that of saddam.

You ignore all of these only to satisfy your hatred. A hatred that does not help us at this point in time since you also fail to provide a workable alternative for those whom you condemn, likes of RP. You call him unqualified. Fine, propose someone instead that can save us in a reasonable time frame, or should we just keep waiting and pray for a blessing from heavens since likes of you do not like an innocent iranian citizen because of his association to the target of your hatred; and please do not mention opportunists like ganji and baghi who have past blood on their hands, or someone who has no recognition amongst people of iran and thus no chance of success. If such a person emerges, I will assure you that likes of me would certainly prefer him to the controversial RP.

UNITY

SETIZ, If you do not want reform, other solutions are revolution or war. Do you have any other solusion? Have you really, really thought this through? Do you know how destructive this will be for Iran and people? Are you willing to live in Iran during these times and share the suffering and pain of this decisions with people? I was in revolution. It is not very pretty! I was in war for 2 1/2 years from Khoramshahr up to kordestan. It is very very ugly!!! It is easy as one calls it to sit on your couch In Europe or else where and order that. Do we really want freedom and democracy for Iran or want revenge?
In regard to Reza palavi. Iranians may not blame him for what his father has done, but they see him as an accomplish to billions of dollars his parents stole that belonged to people and are sitting in his accounts, businesses and investments. I suppose you want proof? As I said before, as per his situation he can not even have a say as an Iranian citizen until he returns the money back to the poor people in Iran!!!

Re: Mammad

When you refered to "some" people resorting to number games, obviously you were refering to me. You do not have the courage to engage me directly probably since I exposed your lies in the past. I am fine with that.

The numbers I provided was not to justify RP, it was to expose the lies that were made during the revolution by people like you. The same lies that are used today to destroy any opposition to the IRI, be it RP, or jebheye Melli, or any others.

I agree with most of your facts (elimination of opposition, rastaakhiz, running away from Iran, etc) until the one in which you ask what difference does it make to kill 5000 or 300,000. This argument is usually used by leftists. I will tell you what the difference is. The difference is 255,000 people who could be alive are are not. That is the difference.

Even if YOU were in power in those days, you would wind up killing some people in order to protect Iran. Today the IRI kills not to protect Iran, but to protect a backwarded version of Islam.

Now on to some more of your "scientific" facts: 

The fact that RP lived his life outside of Iran is irrelevant. Khomeini, your "great" leader, also lived many of his adult years in exile. And those that were spent in Iran were confined to another domestic foreign and alien realm called "ghom".

The fact that RP has not worked as an employee is irrelevant as well. Khomeini your "grand" leader, never worked in his life either, NEVER! Yet he succeeded in changing Iran's regime.

The fact that RP does not hold a doctorate degree is irrelevant too. Holding an advanced degree is not a pre-requisite for leadership. Khomeini, your "ozmaa" leader, did not have any education either. At least RP was exposed to modern education.

You claim that he is surounded by corrupt people. But you did not name any, and the reasons for their corruption. You are just accusing. I can accuse that YOU are also surounded by corrupt people.

Accusation without documentation serves only to degrade the accuser. Of course, this is not so when dealing with the unknowledgable masses. False accusation DOES work on their psyche and that is why it is so much used. But in here you are dealing with a knowledgable audience. I do understand though, that we are all creatures of habit, aren't we Mammad?

Then you say that he has never condemned shaholahis. You are false. He has not only condemned but has even cut ties with many shaholahis. One of them was Fooladvand. Do you remember Fooladvand? Do you even folllow the news? Or do you just follow your hatred?

You also accuse him of having "close" relationship with pro-war individuals. Why, Mammad, the IRI itself has close relationship with the pro-war neocons all the time, does it not? They call it "negociations", you can call it "arrangements", I could call it "dealings and wheelings", others can call it other things.

RP is entitled to voice the Iranians' plights to ALL organziations of ALL countries of the world, be it right wing, leftist, centrist, socialist, captialist, or whatever else. You and other IRI supporters cannot take 70 million people hostage by creating a tense political environement in which war is a possiblity, and then accuse all those who oppose the IRI of being pro-war, thereby silencing the masses.

Setiz

Whatever label you give to me or what I say is correct. I grant you that simply because I do not lower myself to such impolite manners. With all due respect, I also do not care whether you accept that I am a scientist or not. That is up to my scientist peers not you. I had asked for polite discussions, but it seems that you have a hard time doing that.

BUT, you still have not said which of the facts you disagree with, or take issue with.

If Reza Pahlavi is the only "hope," we are doomed. The only reason he is "somebody" is because he a son of his father - a brutal dictator who is directly responsible for Iran's present state of affairs, due to the facts that I listed. Otherwise, he, aside being a simple citizen of Iran entitled to his opinion, is the most disqualified person for leading Iran out of its present mess, again for the reasons and facts I listed.

Well..

Dariush: I am in total agreement with the first part of your comment about how iran should look like. However, I disagree with you on means of achieving it.

You prefer reform. Fine, but how much more should we wait for the reform, another 30 years? These people in iran are there because of iranian wealth and power and will not relinquish it unless they really have to.

We all know that the chance of monarchy returning to iran is pretty much zero, so that is not an issue for an objective debate about the future.

My point is that RP is the only known figure that people can "conditionally" rally around him, since he is best known to people and some in iran are so dissatisfied with the iRI that long for the good old days of the late shah.

If you reject RP, then you need to offer an alternative that can bear fruit in a reasonable period of time. Reform is not the answer, as it will not happen in our life time. There is simply nobody else except for a few disgruntled ex-islamists with shady or dark pasts.

As for RP, you accuse him of what he has rejected in the past. I, same as you, strongly believe that the destiny of iran should be decided by iranians only, iranians of all colors and shades. I admit that he is controversial mainly due to grudges that some people still hold towards pahlavis. But he has said that he has no intention of returning to power in contradiction of people's vote. Well, you say when the time comes he may grab power and go back to misdeeds that his father was accused of. Well, that can be said about anyone, just like khomeini did. The only protection against that is massive participation of people with good intentions with the upfront understanding that those who are to contribute to the establishment of the new system accept that none will participate in the new government. That is the only way to remove the conflict of interest and to control anyone's hunger for power and therefore twisting of the new circumstances and new constitution in his own favor.

How childish... at least say something new...

Mammad: Your arguments and reasonings are still so childish. Do you really want someone to believe that you are a scientist? You are just ranting, don't you see?

Your problem is psychological. You lined up behind a psychopath, the 13th emam, and show no courage to say that you were wrong. That is why you shift blame to relieve yourself of responsibility and to come out victorious and relieved. You don't even show any respect for a concerned citizen, like RP, with no past significant negative record, unlike most of your heroes in the islamic republic, and accuse him with "Fact" after "Fact" in place of a single reason for someone who maybe the only hope that iranians have to lead them out of the abyss that the revolutionaries of the 70's led them into. You want the current disaster to continue to satisfy your emotions, without offering any alternative. You are a prisoner of your emotions and your prejudices as well as your ideology and blanket hatred for the pahlavi regime and are incapable of overcoming them. You try hard to cover up for the islamic republic disaster that you contributed to by insisting on your science to prove your weak logic as if all the rest of iranians are a bunch of illiterates and as gullible as they were in 1979 when they trusted the master lier and deceiver.

We discussed these issues somewhere else and you keep repeating them hoping that they will stick. They still don't, especially after the experiences of the past 30 years that most of us have had.

You still live in 1979, as your arguments and emotions belong to those days and ages. But you are not alone as you see. Lots and lots of people living in the comfort of their western lives, still live with a 1979 mentality.

UNITY

Mr. setiz, Perhaps the reason Reza has not been very motivated is because he is negotiating with West to destroy Iran then chew her up and put her to reza and he just swallow it. As I mentioned before, since this not really about freedom for Iranians from reza's point of view, If he get the power, he will make sure to secure the position for his children for many many years by hanging any opposition. I am guessing about 69,990,000 of population. Ofcource he will say what makes scense otherwise no one will buy it. That is politic. what counts is what you get not what you hear. It is up to people to keep their eyes open this time.
We want an Iran that is INDEPENDENT!
We want an Iran that doesn't have any political prisoners!
we want an Iran that gives all types of freedom including hejab with laws to protect the public from the abuse of some of our freedoms.
We have experienced all type of goverments and influences in Iran, Monarchy,communist, Imperialism, natinalism, Islamic. Among them natinalisim seems to be the preference of majority of Iranians, whether they are moslem,christian, jew, zarosterian and etc.
Goverment must be separated from goverment and the laws must be a common law with respect to every ethnicity. We don't need to look at west for these! we had Koorosh and dariush and mirza hoochak khan and amir kabir and mossadegh and we have many more that are alive today. Let me admit in spite of how Islam came to Iran and all bad our goverment had done it has been for the most part the true faith and belive in Islam and the true nationalists that has motivated Iranians to fight invaters in the British/Russia invasion and since then to Iran/Iraq war. On the other hand, others who promise freedom and happy living if couldn't stay by killing Iranians they runaway not just with their life also with Iranians money and If we see today that rafsanjani and his children and others like him are robbing the country is because they think if situation got bad they also runaway and live somewhere else and enjoy life. Some are selling their soul to devil for their self interest, some want power, some are willing to serve west and east and be slave for the rest of their life and their childeren's life for some peace. Some want to be independent and their own boss. Should we change the goverment and risk a better or worse goverment? Should we push for reform and more freedom since at least we know we are becoming independent and are not slave to the west? Do you think we will be left alone if we change the goverment? Reform seems a more logical approach to me, but we can not get there if we critisize goverment for their negetive points and don't give them credit for the positive points. You can not take side with the long time enemies of Iran and expect the goverment and people (conservetive and liberal) to listen to you. Reform must be requested from Iran and reformists must in their action show that all they want is freedom and ... and that reformists are just as pro Iran and pro independence and anti west/east as the conservatives.

No one is advocating for

No one is advocating for monarchy to return.

But facts are facts. The mullahs have done more killing and raping and plundering than the shah ever did. That doesn't mean that the Shah's regime should not be ciriticized or held accountable.

Citing facts about the Shah's government does not mean you're a supporter and condone what he did as a leader.

> To Mammad, please elaborate

''Fact: He is surrounded by some of the worst, most corrupt people, the relics of the past, who are thirsty for power.''

I don't wanna start a never ending argument here, not at all. I'm just curious. Please provide names and dates. Damet garm

good point. if it wasn't

good point. if it wasn't because of Reza shah and his son, muhammad reza shah's ill will and hatred toward islam, we won't be in this situation in the first place. they openly oppose islam and let's face it, like or not, majority of iranians are devout muslims, me being one of them. if you don't respect your own people, and worship the west, instead of Allah, then your destiny wouldn't be different than it is today, Mr. Pahlavi. As for the Islamic Republic, I think evey one is sick of them also, but not to the point that we want the Islamic Government toppled. we just have to unite and make our voices and demands be heard by the stupid mullahs' in their funny dresses. but i will take any of those stinky mullahs to any foreigner that wants to rule iran, example being "shahzadeh".

Reza Pahlavi, the "catalyst"

Some of the people writing in this column are so desperate to justify and support Reza Pahlavi that they resort to a number games, or compare the Shah to other dictators in other countries. Aside from the illegitimacy of his reign due to the CIA-MI6 coup,

Fact: The Shah eliminated brutally all the opposition: the National Front, leftists, intellectuals, and even moderate religious nationalists such as the Freedom Movement of Mehdi Bazargan which did not want to overthrow him, but only carry out the Constitution by just being a figurehead.

Fact: The Shah established the fascist Rastakhiz Party, almost exactly 33 years ago (Esfand 13, 1353) at a time when Iran was making a great deal of money from the higher price of oil. If he had any brain, he should have known that economic improvement entails also social/political improvement. But, he made them worse.

Fact: The Shah declared that anybody who does not like Rastakhiz, can get his passport and leave. Compare that with what Mesbah Yazdi, the fascist of the IRI said recently: Anybody who does not like Velaayat-e Faghih, can get his passport and go. What is the difference?

Fact: Due to all the above, when people felt that deep changes - which eventually became a full-blown revolution - were necessary, they had nowhere to turn to but the mullahs who were the best organized entity with a charismatic leader like Ayatollah Khomeini, who had lived in exile for 15 years.

Fact: Even the Shah himself acknowleged, "I heard your revolutionary voice." No matter how hard the Shahollahis try, this was recorded in history. Even he recognized the depth of people's anger. But, his supporters in this column are more Catholic than the Pope!

Fact: When the Shah was desperate to find a popular and credible Prime Minister in 1357, nobody was willing to serve. Even his own cronies had abandoned him. When Shapour Bakhtiar accepted the position, he was quickly rejected even by his own friends. He had difficulty to put a cabinet together.

Fact: The Shah - Shah-e Shahan, Aryamehr, Bozog Arteshtaaraan, the modernizers, etc. - left the country in a hurry and left his generals and servants to get killed.

Fact: The Shah did not have 100,000 political prisoners. He had about 3000 AT ANY GIVEN TIME, but the total number of people who had been imprisoned for political reasons during his reign were in tens of thousands.

Fact: The Shah did not kill tens of thousands of people. But, why do the numbers matter here? Why is it good if he had killed 4000, but bad if the mullahs kill tens of thousands? Killing EVEN ONE for political reason is as bad as any other number. Any, by the way, we now know this, because an honest man - Emad Baghi - who was against the Shah and supported the Revolution did extensive research.

As for Reza Pahlavi, the "catalyst" for change, to use a phrase used by one of his most ardent advocates, Dariush Kadivar:

Fact: Reza has lived his entire adult life outside Iran. He has no idea about the present Iranian society, or even the society during his father's reign for that matter.

Fact: He has worked not even a single day his entire life, so he has no idea what working people of Iran go through every day to make ends meet.

Fact: He has no education. His only "college degree" is the BA that University of Southern California gave him in 1985, because his father gave $7 million to USC in the early 1970s. USC has no program for getting a degree by correspondence, and Reza never put his feet in the USC Campus.

Fact: He is surrounded by some of the worst, most corrupt people, the relics of the past, who are thirsty for power.

Fact: Although he professes to believing in democracy, he has never ever condemned the Shahollahis of Iranian satellite TVs who, in his name, attack viciously anybody who criticizes him. I know this, because I am a victim of such attacks.

Fact: He has close relation with some of most most pro-war organizations in the US: The American Enterprise Institute, Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, and the necons.

I'll be happy to debate such documented facts with anyone, provided that the response is about these facts, not slogans, baseless accusations, profanities, insults, etc. Tell me which of these facts you dispute, and we will have a good debate.

boring....

Stop pointing fingers! This is about the future. What happend in the past belongs to the History Channel & Discovery.

Its time to look ahead. Shah khoob bood ya na is not on the agenda today. Grow up and don't get bugged down, use your efforts against the regime.

Make you voices heard tell the world that we Iranians do not want to be ruled by the clergy anymore.

visit //www.islamicrepublicofiranyesorno.com

>listen to what he's go to say

He is not his dad. He's giving his opinion. Why him ? 'cause he's not another DC airport iranian cab driver or some LA shopowners, he happens to be the son of the last ruler. Like it or not.

I'm ain't no saltanati, but who else says the things he says ? M. Rajavi ? Those retarded/retired L.A tv anchormen ? Shahkar am nabood harfash I agree, just comon sense.

Anyway, we iranians don't deserve anything else but dictatorship. Just look at the comments on this site.

Age adam bodim ke kheili vaght bood yek regime dorost hesabi dashtim. Ama motasefaneh adam nistim

anonymousX

are you OK? you mean like Hitler killed less people than Stalin, therefore Hitler wasn't that bad?

What kind of twisted logic is that?

The people of Iran deserve a government that protects them, represents them, improves their lives, not kills them by percentages.

Atom War ????

Hi Mr. Waiting for God,
I guess you are a bit off.
Nobody want a war with US, Israel or the west.
For what????????
in fact Iran is very happy to have even a good relationship with the US and the west. Yes it is true. Iran is trying for the last 20 years to improve his relationship with the west and the US. If you remember, Iran did not break the relationship with US but US with Iran.
Iran offered help to US many times in Irak in Afghanistan and after the catastrophy of katerina. It is the US and Israel who want the war. Why for god sake you american and Israeli dont try to solve a problem in a civilized manner and not just bombing what you dont understand. The fact is, Iranian would rather put up with Fu..Mullahs than accepting some guy who needs a permit from US to wipe his Ass. We are a rich culture and do not need your worthless, meaningless, spiritless materialistic and superficial culture nor need to import democracy from you the way your are exporting it to Irak. Just live us alone sooner or later we find a way out of this misery.
War is not the answer nor the Monarchy as you see how iranian are responding to this interview.
If war and militery force could solve a problem, we would have peace in israel by now.

Thanks

feel bad for Iran that this loser tells USA he wants to save'em

Benazir Bhtutto was more intelligent and courageous than this moftkhor. He is pretending to represent Iran and it's embarassing. Someone send him back to college to learn how to read and write. Or He needs to stick to shopping, lunching and attending benefit galas where his mom auctions jewelry that "wasn't stolen". Please leave Iranians alone Reza. You're not a help AT ALL and you're exaggerations about elections are unhelpful. GET A JOB. GO WORK. TRy it. You might like it.

ONCE AGAIN

Get a proper job mate.

Instead of talking big, without knowing what you are talking about, maybe you should go back to the drawing board and start from the beginning. When your family had such a great opportunity to run a wonderful country with all its' wealth why from the beginning, starting from your dictator loony SS lover grandfather, they hated muslims. Were they racist or what?

AND now we have to put up with mullahs and their families!! Who's fault is it?

Pahlavi against Islamic regim 1:5

Dear Jamshid
Yes there were lots of lies, I agree
Shah didnt kill so many students and oppositions and leftist, but they killed (remember Gholesorkhi???)
They were not soooooo corrupt like the Mullahs, but they were very corrupt.
and they did not killed 10.000 people at Jaleh street but they killed to many.
So Pahlavis are much better Dictator than Mullahs??? OK but I say F both of them.
Iranian deseve something better than these two choices.
I am talking about real leaders with balls to stand against the regim, not a King, who rans away and let his generals be exacuted like stray dogs, a king stays and fight and die for his land and his people. He betrayed Iran and Iranian, I have more respect for the 13 years old beseejies (yes may be misguided), who fought irakis and got killed in southern Iran than for whole fu. monarchs.

The regime is not capable of reform?

Wink, wink, the "international community" should forcefully remove the regime and bring someone into power who will create a democratic government - wink, wink (me, me, me) ...

I think the worse thing about his interview is that he is legitimizing a potential war on Iran by publicly saying that the IRI is not capable of reform - which is falsehood, by the way. A quick honest look at the past 28 years shows that the current system is far better than what was in power within the first few years.

He is simply repeating what the neocons are saying. I'd expect a bit more intelligence from him. Obviously he is another naive mind who has no idea that the US will never allow this regime to be removed! This regime is the best regime that the western imperialist could ask for. Why would they remove it? Why would they want higher gas prices (that is what will happen if a democratic regime could come to power). Reza has not figured that out yet.

Mockery?!

Here is a question for Reza Pahlavi and the royalist chums: What happened to the hundreds of billions of dollars that the Pahlavi clan stole from the Iranian nation and ran away with? Isn't it true that you were subpoenaed by the IRS in the District of Columbia on charges of tax evasion back in the early 90s? Somehow, your lawyers got to drop all the charges in a similar way OJ got away with murder.

From where most of us "very smart" Iranians stand, you already top the list of making a mockery of the system.

shah doost not

This MFer doesn't need to come back to Iran. He is a traitor, a liar, desperate for power. Just because there is alcohol in the streets and no hijab doesn't mean we are modern like the West.

I'm not saying forced hijab is a good thing...it is not but come on people there is clearly NO democracy in a MONARCHY. His father never forced hijab or anything else, but he was a DICTATOR.

I saw comment like "don't worry about what his father did..." To whoever that said that I'm sure the "Apple does not fall far from the tree."

The Mullahs are bad, but this guy is no better. What Iran needs is someone like Mossadegh. This Pahlavi loser is nothing but a CIA agent who wants nothing more to sell out Iran to the West just as his Bastard father did.

Iranians lost their identity because of this family. No one in Iran likes him...they hate him as much as the Mullahs. I heard him say the mullahs put iranians back to the middle ages but the monarchy is in the past....we need to look to the future and Reza Pahlavi is not future.