Misc

The Green and green

//iranian.com/main/blog/oktaby/how-you-can-tell-green-green

Oktaby 

Meanwhile, defending the other Mohsen...

//mowjcamp.com/article/id/62675

Not Only he knows IRI

He is also one of the few Iranians who looks ahead and knows about this kind strategical plannings - and he is doing fine.   He will never be a leader in the future Iran until he is prosecuted in a fair court - as he said on TV that he would be willing to do.  

I just wished we had many more like him - people who look forward.    Just look at our own forum here - how many posts do you see about what to do next?   

 One more note - don't get frustrated when he appears as just wanting AN out and not openly asking for a regime change.   If Green takes a full regime change posture it would jeoperdize many lives, those who are in jail now and those who may be jailed in the future. 

Oktaby

Although I understand your comments about Sazegara, I don't agree with you about the "green".

There is only one green. What the opposition in diaspora is trying to do is ride on the green wave, not a different version of green.

My problem with Sazegara is his overexposure despite his not-so-critical role which comes across as an opportunistic move trying to change his image before he goes down with the sinking ship. but as far as the green is concerned, the leaders of the greens are still the reformist part of IRI. The Iranians in Iran are a lot smarter and more politically savvy than all of us (including the opposition leaders outside the country). Their strength is in their unity and they have not split the green.

IRANdokht

"...without having to call them names and judging.."

"Stupid...feeble....hatred...paranoia...","No one can prove..", "dark emotions and thougths",...

I know enemies of Iran, their friends and their MO.

This is no longer about sazegara & co. is it?

 Oktaby

Xerxes: there is The Green and then there is green of IRR

He knows how to beat them.

I think Sazegara is the right man for this job. He knows these people and so he knows how to deal with them. I think without his daily talks the green movement would have not been where they are today.

Oktaby

You say""Former" islamic agents supporting green"?
The "former islamic agents CREATED the green. Where have you been?

It's funny how the stupid

It's funny how the stupid current leaders of IRI share the Manichean mentality with some of their arch-enemies, such as the famous G W Bush, who once said (and I paraphrase): You are either with us, or with our enemies. These feeble minds cannot allow for a grey area. They just don't fathom the possibility of being critical of someone without having to call them names and judging them based on little save their hatred and paranoia. And exactly because they don't see this possibility, they think of anyone who criticizes them as their enemy.

I am not completely uncritical of Sazegara's and Ganji's past (and even their present) and I believe in my right to be critical of them in future as well, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to surrender to the flawed logic that "since these folks were part of the IRI at some point, their cries for change is a sign of their opportunism." No one can prove the opportunism of them, or of their good intentions for that matter. We can only speculate, and being led to dark emotions and thoughts and deeds based on mere speculations is far from a wise course of action, in this reader's humble opinion.

M&P, Know thyne enemy

you are right about making use of former regimes repentants. They can stand in the front line taking a bullet for the students and mothers. Until then the only open spot is in the back of the line. My forgiveness or former regim's crooks are not at issue. Nor is the freedom of expression sazegara has, which he contributed to suffocating. I commented to jj simply about frequency of prominence given to sazegara videos (i.e. top of home page) and with hindsight I am glad he did because now we engage a bit deeper. I further commented that his type (A. Ganji, Mahajerani...) is irrelevant, as are most of the former regime 'guides' and 'saviors'.  See my articles and blogs including today's blog on Khyaboon. The totality of the leadership and hope is in streets of Iran and inside universities and on shoulders of people who are feeling the pain in their daily lives, and the only place salvation will come from. In our collective supporting roles from our laptops and armchairs outside the Iranian war zone we can be alert to demogoguery and opportunism to the extent we can. the fake green had the upper hand on Green until recently. The unholy alliances of 79 have cost our country 2 generations and possibly our heritage unless this war with erteja' is won, once and for all. I am all ok with joining forces, but sleeping with the enemy with the idea that we need every person sounds good but is does not follow; tactically or strategically. 

OKtaby

oktaby

there are former or current monarchists who sided with Pahlavi's brutal oppression of dissent who act as the "guide" or "saviour" of this movement as well.

Why cant we learn to foregive? If this guy or anyone else who once sided with the oppressors has not comitted crimes against humanity and have appologised for their past mistakes then I dont see how we should sideline them. 

As for Sazegara himself, he gets many things wrong but he can be useful to the movement. 

"Former" islamic agents supporting green

now is ok at end of line. True to character his type's loyalty is to the highest bidder. Green needing his cheering is in sad shape; And danger. VOA is not an important source of info nor in the business of caring for Iran. Don't like the brown nosing

Oktaby

I actually enjoy watching

I actually enjoy watching Sazegara doing his animated "carried-away" routine (I rarely miss his daily 10-minute motivationals on his website). I find him quite amusing, to say the least. He's a good speaker. On whether he's an "opportunist" as many claim to know he is, I cannot say anything. I personally give him the benfit of the doubt and would like to optimistically (perhaps even naively) think that he's doing a service to the Green Movement so far and is causing no one any harm. It should be noted that a lot of people in Iran watch VOA TV, so what he "regurgitates" on VoA may not be accessible otherwise to a large number of Iranians inside Iran who may not use internet. Besides, what he's doing on VoA is not simply reporting what had happened and "everyone knows about it already" (I'm paraphrasing some of the previous comments), but keeping the morale of the Greens inside Iran. Again, his rhetoric has motivational value.

...

Finally, I don't see any reason why JJ should explain himself about his choice of the material for the front page. He's never explained his choices to other Iranian.com readers.

jj, your point is fair. Mine was a bit more subtle

We want all opposition voices but on that front we have many with much deeper and wider insight than him. I am questioning the excess visibility on multiple occassions. There is nothing he says on this or other occasions that is beyond generic info available from dozens of sources, IC included. And once a traitor, always a traitor. This movement does not need these type of questionable at best characters. It is strong and dynamic enough. IF he is 'reformed'  then he is welcome in the back row. But he is an opportunist not reformed.

OKtaby

True JJ

His input can be very valuable and it's good to hear everyone out and show unity etc...  But I also understand oktaby's point because the people who are now suddenly anti-government and try this hard to be in the sopt light come across as opportunists who want to secure themselves a place in the future. 

Does everyone believe that these guys (there are a few of them) who are now speaking against the IRI just woke up one very recent day and found out that the regime and its constitution are anti-democratic?

IRANdokht

I like him and I think he

I like him and I think he has a lot to offer although sometimes gets carried away with emotions.

Note to JJ and everyone else

we need all voices that criticize this government.  At this point in our history, we should ignore the backgrounds of people like Sazegara, and not shun them because of what they have done in the past.  This is something that has benefited democracy movements in previous dictatorships (for many reasons that I do not have the time to discuss now) and it can benefit Iran as well.

So, JJ, please post all voices of opposition to the IRI, regardless of their background. 

Because

I don't agree with everything he says but he knows a lot about the inside workings of the Islamic Republic and now that he has defected, I like to know what he thinks about what's going on over there.

jj, what is the insistence on posting Sazegara

as feature, every time he opens his mouth regurgitating yesterday's news on VoA or elsewhere. The movement of Iran (inside or out) does not give him or other irrelevant opportunists like him the time of the day. What gives?