Misc

Lol...isn't that my hubby?

Wow...he had told me that he had played in one of the Kiarostami's movies (a family friend)...but I didn't know that Khalkhali, Yazdi and Ghotbzadeh were his fellow colleagues..:-)

Wow, great piece!

Even butcher Khalkhali makes his appearences. Having in mind what currently goes on in Iran ( forced confession shows), his point of view is the most shocking to me.

One more thought

If it was the US, the kids would demand the "guilty" to stand up and take responsibility for his own action.

Leadership creates environment

Most people become pawns in the situation. Giving up and naming the "guilty" or keeping quiet are both punishment. The teacher should have not created such situation.

The systems that don't allow communication among its population makes such cases that no one ever wins. If communication channels were established, then this would have been a positive lesson for both leadership and the general public (in this case students and teacher).

Let's assume that the concept of doing right was understood and accepted among the students. Most students would have forced the kid to stop before the teachers' intervention or would come with a plan once they were kicked out of the class. If the kid had support, then an spoke person would have let the teacher know why the class is not beneficial, boring, or what not. However in this film only fear becomes the lesson:

Teacher fears respect and students fear punishment. This is no win situation. Our society was no different, and arguably still the same.

Wow,

This is a brillant piece of history.

  The Times has a story

The Times has a story about new research which reveals:

huge variations in ordinary people’s ideas of what is dishonest behaviour, which may affect a defendant’s chances of being convicted or acquitted by a jury.

""Apparently a study by researchers at Brunel University questions whether the current legal definition of ‘dishonesty’ is appropriate. There has been an assumption that a “universal standard for honesty” can be relied upon when jurors are asked to evaluate whether a defendant’s actions were “honest according to the standards of reasonable and honest people”. The outcome of this new research casts a doubt that such consensus exists any longer.""

But What IS truth?

The fact that these students did not reveal the identity of their "guilty" comrade does not mean that they were lying in any way. Sure one could define truth by basing it at the level of the individual, which would conveniently result in pointing fingers at a specific person who engaged in disturbance. But if one regards all of the students as part of a group which has taken responsibility for this act and they all decide to take the punishment as a group in solidarity, then truth has already been revealed (they have admitted that THEY are responsible). Therefore the only issue remaining is whether or not this solidarity will be shattered for the individual benefit of each/any member, at the expense of the "guilty" member. 

I also agree that truth is important, but it varies among different groups, individuals and ideologies. The Jewish community leader might consider the truth as the students being guilty of disturbing the educational process and the "freedom", as he put it, of other students. But someone else's take on truth could be that there was no educational process or "freedom" since the teacher was wasting the time of the students and was imposing his authority on students by expecting them to be passive and obedient. And also, what the students engaged in was in itself more educational than what the teacher was doing or perhaps could ever do. So this abstract idea of truth could in reality lead to more lies.

The film is amazing. Brilliant.  

Payam 

Awesome Film

Awesome Film

Excellent film, excellent question!

To my surprise, I found myself agreeing with the tudeh-ee guy. :)

Although at first the right answer might seem obvious, upon closer examination, one quickly realises that there are no clear right or wrongs in this situation. It is even dangerous to try to simplify this complex issue and paint a black and white picture, which most of the people in the film try to do.

For me this film poses a number of further intriguing questions. Is it fair to assume and expect that all students think the same way and are on the same side simply because they are all students? There seems to be an assumption or even expectation that one has to operate as part of a group. 

I love Kiarostami. Another great find, Ghormeh Sabzi. Thank you for sharing. 

Amazing!

This is a historical film. Another proof that Kiarostami is an amazing filmmaker. Just seeing all those Iranian intellectuals after 30 years and knowing what happened to some of them few years later is enlightening. 

Teacher, leave them kids alone

Fascinating film. A wonderful insight into the minds of our intellectuals and personalities.

I agreed with the point of view that essentially the teacher holds ultimate responsibility and that collective punishment is wrong. The students should not have been thrown out of class.

I also believe that the student who outed his guilty classmate should not be seen as a traitor but a victim of the teacher's punishment.

I agree with the Jewish community leader's point of view that telling the truth is an important virtue, more valuable than solidarity at any cost.