Current Events

Islam is not a moral compass

Why is the basis of these people's morality always what is written in the Quran or what some mullah says? Not that we should care about what Islam prescribes but just so you know, Islam is very clear about stoning punishment and the prophet of Islam himself endorsed it. This lady is wrong. She doesn't even offer any references for her claims. It took me less than 5 minutes to find authentic Islamic sources on stoning (Rajm). Speak with evidence. Not vague statements that you cannot back up. Islam is very clear. I will give you the first tafsir I found from Tafsir Ibn Kathir book below from Islamic website. I will copy this for you but you can click on the link below and go to the homepage and search for any topic you want. 

 //www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=24&tid=35488 

The Explanation of the Prescribed Punishment for Zina (Illicit Sex)

Then Allah says:

[الزَّانِيَةُ وَالزَّانِى فَاجْلِدُواْ كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا مِاْئَةَ جَلْدَةٍ]

(The Zaniyah and the Zani, flog each of them with a hundred stripes.) This honorable Ayah contains the ruling on the law of retaliation for the person who commits illegal sex, and details of the punishment. Such a person will either be unmarried, meaning that he has never been married, or he will be married, meaning that he has had intercourse within the bounds of a lawful marriage, and he is free, adult and of sound mind. As for the virgin who is unwedded, the prescribed punishment is one hundred stripes, as stated in this Ayah. In addition to this he is to be banished from his homeland for one year, as was recorded in the Two Sahihs from Abu Hurayrah and Zayd bin Khalid Al-Juhani in the Hadith about the two bedouins who came to the Messenger of Allah . One of them said, "O Messenger of Allah, this son of mine was employed by this man, and committed Zina with his wife. I paid a ransom with him on behalf of my son one hundred sheep and a slave-girl, but when I asked the people of knowledge, they said that my son should be given one hundred stripes and banished for a year, and that this man's wife should be stoned to death.'' The Messenger of Allah said:

«وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَأَقْضِيَنَّ بَيْنَكُمَا بِكِتَابِ اللهِ تَعَالى، الْوَلِيدَةُ وَالْغَنَمُ رَدٌّ عَلَيْكَ، وَعَلى ابْنِكَ جَلْدُ مِائَةٍ وَتَغْرِيبُ عَامٍ، وَاغْدُ يَا أُنَيْسُ لِرَجُلٍ مِنْ أَسْلَمَ إِلَى امْرَأَةِ هذَا،فَإِنِ اعْتَرَفَتْ فَارْجُمْهَا»

(By the One in Whose Hand is my soul, I will judge between you both according to the Book of Allah. Take back the slave-girl and sheep, and your son is to be given one hundred stripes and banished for one year. O Unays -- he said to a man from the tribe of Aslam -- go to this man's wife, and if she confesses, then stone her to death.) Unays went to her and she confessed, so he stoned her to death. This indicates that if the person who is guilty of illegal sex is a virgin and unmarried, he should be banished in addition to being given one hundred stripes. But if married, meaning he has had intercourse within the bounds of lawful marriage, and he is free, adult and of sound mind, then he should be stoned to death. Imam Malik recorded that `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, stood up and praised and glorified Allah, then he said; "O people! Allah sent Muhammad with the truth, and revealed to him the Book. One of the things that was revealed to him was the Ayah of stoning to death, which we have recited and understood. The Messenger of Allah carried out the punishment of stoning and after him we did so, but I am afraid that as time goes by, some will say that they did not find the Ayah of stoning in the Book of Allah, and they will go astray because they abandoned one of the obligations revealed by Allah. Stoning is something that is prescribed in the Book of Allah for the person -- man or woman -- who commits illegal sex, if he or she is married, if decisive evidence is produced, or if pregnancy results from that, or if they confess to it.'' It was also recorded in the Two Sahihs in the lengthy Hadith of Malik, from which we have quoted briefly only the portion that is relevant to the current discussion.

From this hadith, we learn several things: (1) prophet of Islam endorsed stoning of married female adulterers and lashing of unmarried ones. (2) the stoning verse used to be in the Quran but somehow it was removed at the time of Omar and he worried that people would not carry out stoning anymore. 

Even if we ignore the hadiths and go only by what is written in the Quran, another problem comes up. What are we going to do about the punishments that are explicitly written about in the quran? Such as amputating the hand of thieves (Quran 5:38) or beating disobedient wives (4:34) or slaying unbelievers (Quran 2:191)? What is the justification then? Do you want to abandon the Quran or you want to amputate hands and maim people? Burying your head in the sand and making excuses doesn't work anymore. People are smarter than that to be fooled by these antics. It's the 21 Century. We shouldn't care about what Islam prescribes for us. This is backward religion and backward way of thinking. This was not made by God but by devil. Islam has no place to determine our lives and our destiny. We are better than this. 

horriblle.

poor woman

Stoning

Do we ever stop, & think how barbaric this law is? Three
decades ago, we all made a mistake, just as our previous generation did, as the generation before them.  Let all be honest
for a split second, “Religion as any form of frame of thought is wrong; why
even bother to find any reason to justify it, there is none. People, mankind,
is a very self-centered creature, we still think that wwe are the center of universe; even though we still have the very primitive knowledge
of our own planet, solar system, our galaxies. Yet, some ignorant idiots think
some books, which was the collections of some ill-minded, blood thirstily uncivilized
individual has all the answer for every issue. Well, Mr. Hubbell, Mr. Einstein,
you were wrong; some Shepard in the middle of nowhere had the answers about all
the mysterious of universe, & perhaps the multi-verse!

Funny thing

These so called Roshanfekr (open minded) people are deathly afraid of calling it like it is to avoid the wrath of the Islamic thugs. The lady's logic is laughable with double or half stoning nonsense being rejected by Islam. Quit sugar coating this poison, lady.  Kind of like fitting a thief in a police uniform and using him to combat crime.

Responses

Benross: Obviously my experiences make up the base of my judgment. I dare say that is so for all people. The people who voted for IRI did so 31 years ago. That is not the same as now. The people are different and so is their experience. Don't blame them for the actions of their parents.

Mostafaneja:You are 100% right about the religion. It was taught to us as God's own truth. I remember well how I was being brainwashed. It *was* hard to think of anything other than Islam. Thankfully after 31 years of exile I see if differently. IRI has shown real face of Islam to all specially those inside Iran. 

But there are still those stuck in the 70s like the MKO. They have learned nothing.

VPK

Left to themselves:

Good people will try and do good.

Wicked people will probably do harmful things

 BUT, If you want a good person to do a wicked thing ... well that takes religion.

I agree with VPK and this

I agree with VPK and this mindset runs deep. This "religion" was taught as the truth and even the most secular could not think otherwise. I remember listening to Mujaheddin reps on a San Francisco radio interview at that time. A question was asked as to whether in a Mujaheddin based government religious minorities, athiests, etc., would have full rights as the Moslem majority. The answer was evasive and was based on the vote of the majority. Well, we had the vote of the majority and look where it has taken us.

vpk

I guess your personal experience affects your judgment in a big way. The society as a whole was implicated in a revolution and 98% of them voted FOR IRI in a referendum. You don't seem to be able to talk to them.

I agree

with Elham at least for most.

1) Not all of us participated in that horrible mistake ~30 years ago. I was around and I did not support the revolution.

2) The "society" is not guilt ridden. It is the old jerks who participated in the revolution. They are and should be guilt ridden. Their children reject their stupidity and don't want it. Those who did know their names will be remembered in shame for 1000s of years to come. They were the idiot followers of Shariati the charlatan. Kicked their luck in the face and sold their own children to Zahhak aka Khomeini aka Islamist bastards. Now we get to watch this spectacle of poor woman getting stoned. At least we all see the real face of Islam. 

May AN and Khamenei and all the Islamists meet the same fate.

Their children are admitting

Their children are admitting it, by waving that green banner.

And holding Moosavi's picture? I'm not so sure. Waving Iranian flag means admitting it... and it's coming! 

"Goh khordim"

"Only because of a historic mistake a whole society has committed thirty
years ago and guilt ridden, is not prepared to admit it."

Dear Benross:

Their children are admitting it, by waving that green banner.

A no brainer

Some things are a no brainer, that is you can see it for what it is, barbarity is barbarity. You don't need to consult "scholars" to tell you what your common sense has already told you.

Look what has happened to

Look what has happened to our social discourse

Only because of a historic mistake a whole society has committed thirty years ago and guilt ridden, is not prepared to admit it.

And what if Qur'an was not leaving any tiny tiny bit room for maneuvering over the pertinence of stoning? Then what?