Current Events

Dear Siavash

There is a "wealth" of data on honor killing in the world including Pakistan. I am sorry to say it it true. This is just a single report. While Amnesty International is not my favorite organization this article is probably accurate:

//www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/ASA33/018/1...

This horrible practice also happens in Iran but to a less degree. I remember when I was a kid. A man was tried for murder of his sister by the Pahlavi courts. His infamous statement always rings in my mind. "I kiss these hands for restoring honor to my family". He was referring to hands that murdered his sister. Later he changed his mind and said: "I am not able to look at these hands for what they did". Translation by VPK. Nevertheless it proves the sickening practice happened in Iran.

Needless to mention many Iranians do not do this. Are in fact horrified by it. I was but some other people I know approved of it. 

Hope that helped.

Best, VPK

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VPK , please read this article.

Of course this article is not releavant to the topic, but one of my friends was critical about "honor killing" and your commnet of honor killing in Pakistan, so he sent me the following link. Do you have any sources for "honor killing in Pakistan"?

Nationalism

Yes dear Siavash we do need Nationalism. As you said many people don't know what it is. They get confused between that and racism. I have tried to make it clear but some people just do not get it.

For example I put up a blog about Iranians of Arab origin. When an Iranian fights for Iran; takes bullets for Iran they are Iranian. Races does not matter one bit. The problem is that Europeans gave Aryan a bad name.

Now people who hate Iran use "Aryan" in a way to divide us. Other PC types go for it and give it false validity. That is why we should not let them get away with it; we are Iranian; nationalistic and proud of it; no apologies given.

So VPK we have to promote Persian culture here, not arabs

Seems some people here have misunderstanding between Nationalism or love for mother land and racism or racial hatred. No nation can survive without sense of Nationalism.

Siavash Jan

Actually it turned out that Arabs got Persianized :-)

Unlike others, Persians resisted being Arabized

From the last Sassanid King Yazdgerd III to the heroes Babak and Maziyar and many other heroes, who got tortured and murdered by Islam in my country, Iran will never be Arabized!

Regarding cultures

I have the highest regards for Arab people. Like the brave Syrian people. But Iran 2050 says: there is no “better” culture

Are you kidding me man? There were cultures where cannibalism was practiced; not by Arabs but by some for example: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korowai#Cannibalism Other cultures practiced incest like the royal Ptolemy dynasty. Some cultures allow marriage to girls as young a 6! Do you really think these are all "equal"; I disagree. There is a right and wrong. A culture that respects people's rights and values education is superior to one that does not. 

When you spend your time bashing your head with an axe that is not equal. Not to people who spend their times in study and learning. When you practice honor killing you do have an inferior culture. Sorry no way around it and this is not Arabs or anyone elses fault. It is reality. I have no dislike for anyone but I do dislike some practices. I dare anyone to defend the so called cultural practices I stated above. No not all cultures are equal and we may as well accept it.

He Portrays what's wrong with people like Iran 2050

or better be called Iran 1400 yrs ago! The problem with the Non-intellectual like you is that you regret why Iranians don't speak Arabic like our other Arabic neighbors and why we call the Gulf, Persian Gulf when majority of people living there talk Arabic.

He portrays what’s wrong with Iran!

This so called “intellectual” who like many other Iranian so called “intellectual” belong to the Middle Ages, display what’s wrong with Iran. His shameful, disrespectful, racist and outrageous comments about Arabs shows how much some of these people lack the smallest sense of decency and lack the ability to perform critical thinking.

He who belittles others only, and only, shows sense of insecurity with himself. The idiots who brought about this “Persian supremacy” culture did it out of insecurity and lack of faith in Iran and Iranian culture and lack of decency.

I am not an Arab from Khuzestan like this idiot claims whoever disagrees with him is (And he follows with a stupid racist comment that those folks are not “Arab”!!! but only speak Arabic!), as matter of fact, I’m very “Fars”, however, I have absolutely no hate or disrespect towards the great Arab people or great Arabian culture or any other race or culture for that matter and I absolutely and strongly condemn his remarks.

All I can say is I’m glad that more and more Iranians are waking up to distance themselves and reject this unacceptable “Persian supremacy” crap. All humans are born equal, all cultures are respected, there is no “better” culture and in a future Iran, these ideas need to be isolated otherwise Iran will never get out of the hole we’re in now. Let’s not have IRIs anti Iranian policies drive us towards hate and intolerance for others, specially our Arabic neighbors.

Zamin

You say you are Iranian then claim Iranians are "nothing". Here is a list of "nothings":

• Shahriar Afshar, physicist, namesake of Afshar experiment
• Siavash Alamouti, CTO Broad Band and INTEL fellow, inventor of Alamouti Code, code-communication engineer
• Abass Alavi, Professor of Radiology, Nuclear Medicine and neurology; University of Pennsylvania.[1]
• Nima Arkani-Hamed, physicist from Harvard
• Mina Bissell, scientist and biologist, LBL.
• Hamid Dabashi, Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies, Columbia University in New York.
• Touraj Daryaee, Iranologist
• Richard Danielpour, Professor of Composition, Manhattan School of Music
• Nader Engheta, Professor of Electrical and Systems Engineering at the University of Pennsylvania.
• Haleh Esfandiari, Middle East Scholar
• Nariman Farvardin, Provost of University of Maryland
• Vartan Gregorian, President of the Carnegie Corporation of New York
• Ali Javan, physicist, inventor of gas laser, Professor Emeritus of Physics at MIT.
• Sepandar Kamvar, computer scientist, Stanford University.
• Mehran Kardar, physicist, MIT.[2]
• Ahmad Karimi-Hakkak, Founding Director of Center for Persian Studies, University of Maryland.[3]
• Bahram Mashhoon, General Relativity physicist
• Abbas Milani, Director of Iranian Studies Program, Stanford University.
• Maryam Mirzakhani, Stanford University Professor.
• Mohsen Mostafavi, Dean of the Harvard Graduate School of Design[4]
• Hamid Mowlana, Director of the Division of International Communication at American University[5]
• Firouz Naderi, NASA director of Mars project.[6]
• Majid M. Naini, computer scientist, former Professor at University of Pennsylvania, Rumi expert.[7]
• Kayvan Najarian, Associate Professor of Computer Science, Virginia Commonwealth University.
• Camran Nezhat, Director, Stanford Endoscopy Center for Training & Technology.
• Kaveh Pahlavan, Professor of Computer and Electrical Engineering, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
• Behzad Razavi, Professor of Electrical Engineering, University of California, Los Angeles
• Nouriel Roubini,
  one of the leading economists of our age, professor of economics at the
  Stern School of Business, New York University and chairman of RGE
  Monitor
• Homayoun Seraji, Senior Research Scientist, Jet Propulsion Laboratory[8]
• Ghavam Shahidi, IBM Fellow, Director of Silicon Technology
• Manuchehr Shahrokhi, Professor, California State University,[9] Founding Editor, Global Finance Journal and Executive Director, Global Finance Association, [10]
• Vahid Tarokh, leading communication theorist Harvard University.[10]
• Ray Takeyh, Middle East Scholar and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations
• Hamid Jafarkhani, leading communication theorist University of California, Irvine.[11]
• Cumrun Vafa, String theorist in Harvard.
• Ehsan Yarshater, Hagop Kevorkian Professor Emeritus of Iranian Studies, Director of Center for Iranian Studies, Columbia University,[12] Founder and Editor in Chief of Encyclopaedia Iranica.
• Lotfi A. Zadeh,
  Mathematician and computer scientist, and a professor of computer
  science at the University of California, Berkeley; father of Fuzzy Logic.
• Mark Zandi, Economist and co-founder of Economy.com, now part of Moody's Analytics.
• Omid Safi, Professor of Islamic studies at the University of North Carolina and advocate of reform within Islam.

Please don't say that.

Don't be so ridiculous. Just because I am critic of Iranian behavior, does not make me anti-iran, or an iranian "imposter".  I know what Arabs are thinking because I work with them DAILY. I know there mentality. Arabs are far more demonized in the West than Iranians are, but you never hear complaining, or crying from them. Arabs don't walk around chin up like Iranians do. The only difference between Arabs and Iranians are that Arabs know they are nothing, but Iranians think they are something, but really, are nothing. Truth hurts. Iran hasn't been anything for the past 500 years. The mullahs have only been in power for 31 years. What is your excuse for Iranians failures for the other 469 years? Please do not call me an Iranian imposter, that is probably one of the only things that truly makes me angry. Is Iranian black/white thinking. Just because I am critic, doesn't not make me an imposter. Iranians are far from perfect, and I help make it more public. Only way to strive for greatness is criticisism and finding ways to fix it.

I mean honestly, who does this guy think he is? Arabs apologize to Humanity? The whole world laughs at us, because of our delusions, arrogance. We don't need stupid poets like these. Better yet, we don't even need poets. They are useless. We need engineers & scientists. 

Zamin

I already said I do not support his position. But it is interesting how much you know of what Arabs think. I guess this is more proof you are not really Iranian are you.

He is a cry baby, and he

He is a cry baby, and he thinks hes special. No arabs gives a damn what he writes.. Better, yet no one gives a damn, besides a small niche of Iranian nazis in Los Angeles

In regards to Persian Gulf

//iranian.com/main/blog/dailypress/persian-gulf-intro-seo

Zamin

Stop being so superficial. With his peoms, he's trying to attack a group of Arabs who try to mess with Persian and Persian Gulf. What's the matter with you people? Did Khomeini also kill your sense of identity and Mihan doosti?

This clown looks more arab

This clown looks more arab than arabs themselves!

Statira

Yes one man did that. What is the Iraqi population of United States? I just check and according to Wiki it is 140,000 people. So you get one psyhcopath. There was an American woman who murdered her own kids.

There are nuts in all populations. And Islam brings the worst out of them. Plus yes a culture of sick misplaced "honor". However most people do not act this way. Again I was not there so I do not know for sure. 

Maybe some tribes did practice this horrible act. I think we are debating something that may never be resolved. Unless someone finds some indisputable evidence. I suggest we drop the argument because I just don't know.

VPK

Not everyone is as affectionate as you toward his kids. Have you heard of the Iraqi man who ran over his daughter and killed her to regain his family honor? In his view she was too Americanized and was a fire that could burn( disgrace) his family.

One more

thing about common sense. I am a father and do have kids including a daughter. I would never harm one hair on her. I am not able to imagine any father or mother putting their daughter to death. Specially at 6. Just imagine a 6 year old girl you have loved and raised. Putting her in the ground and burring her while she screams "father; mother help!". My "sense" tells me no sane human being will do this. I do not care what culture you got; it takes an insane mind. 

We humans are programmed to love our children. Because it is required for our race to survive. This is not a cultural or racial thing. All humans are naturally made to love their offspring.

Statira

I said I was not there to see it and all I have is history. You know that history is written by the victors. They often will make the previous system appear as barbaric. Sassanids for example destroyed much of Parthian history. In a deliberate attempt to wipe them off history. This is very common practice. I bet you if Germans had won Hitler would be hailed as a "humanitarian" now. Why: because he would have made sure of it.

Anyway there were many different Arab tribes. Did they all do this or was it just Ali's tribe? 

In fact some Arabs were allied to Sassanids for some time. These were the Lakhmid Arabs. Prior to Islam the Arabs were not a monolithic group. They were a rather diverse group including Jews the Bani Quraytha whom Muhammad put to death. How about that for bringing civilization? I bet they were not so happy about being brought out of Jahl! Before Islam Arabs had a code of honor. No raiding or fighting in the months of pilgrimage which Mohammad violated.

For a summary of pre Islamic Arabs please see:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Islamic_Arabia

There was a lot more to Arabs than Islam and they were not barbarians. 

VPK

Use your common sense. When early muslims call Iranians fire worshiper, it just reflects their own ignorance of the other religious beliefs. Being a Zartoshti and  believe in a symbol is not an inhuman practice but burying your kids are. If fire worshiping is the only problem ancient Iranians were criticized for, it just shows how cultured we were before Arabs attacked.
Ali was an arab and he knew the reality about his own people better than anyone else.

Statira

Arabe Jaheliat used to burry their first born if it turned out to be a girl 

I was not there to see it. But I put no value in words of Ali. Was it not the Muslims who say Persians had no culture before Islam. Did they not claim we worshiped fire? Muslims are known to dislike pre-Islam. So it is not surprising that he would say this. 

If Muslims lie about Persians why should I believe them about Arabs. Do you really think a family will just bury their 6 year old daughter. It is not in human nature to do so. Maybe some particularly cruel people would.

But I just find it hard to believe it was general practice. Ali was a mass murderer who killed thousands of Iranians. He is hardly my example of a good person. No thanks, I need better proof than repeated statements by a person like Ali.

Zendebeghoor

Arabe Jaheliat used to burry their first born if it turned out to be a girl and the sad thing was that they would wait until she turned 6 and understand everything. Hazrate Ali in his Nahjolbalaghe mentioned this thousands of times.

Arabs

Had different religions; poetry and a woman could actually own property. Why do you think Mohammad married an older rich woman! Now women are just man's property. Plus there were Arab Jews that Islam destroyed.

Sure they were not the same as Persians or Greeks. But they were much better off than they are with Islam. The business about burying babies is often mentioned. I honestly do not know how true it is. If it were then how did they survive? Men do not give birth and you need baby girls to have women. And you need women to have the next generation. I suspect much of it was hype by Muslims to make pre Islam Arabs look bad. Just as they did to pre Islam Iranians and other people. 

VPK

Are you smoking weeds? Arabe Jaheliat had flourishing culture? What type of a flourished culture does slavery and burrying little girls alive?

Islam and other religions are man-made and reflect the culture of the people who introduced it to the world.

thanks Dear VPK but now you bring up an interesting point

You noted:"They had a very flourishing culture that Islam squashed. "  Could you expand on this?

Dear Anahid

Thank you and point is taken. I would say the greatest victims of Islam are Arabs. They had a very flourishing culture that Islam squashed.

They are hurt, so don't feel apologizing to one who hurt

Dear VPK, sometimes people do not apologize to someone because they have been repeatedly hurt by that person. So even if they themselves did something wrong, in comparison, they feel justified, because the other side did more. For instace this poet seems to think arabs should apologize because they have hurt others. In truth, it is Islam which has hurt others not Arabs. But people sometimes don't see all of the truth but see parts of it and get hurt by what they see.

Humans should apologize!

This is indeed a racist thing to blame Arabs. There is nothing unique about Arabs. People have done horrible things to one another for as long as history goes. No group is innocent or different. It is in all of our nature to be savage.

Let us see how people treated one another. Just a few I do know of:

• Greeks kept other Greeks as slaves.
• Persians burned Athens
• Turks murdered Armenians.
• Mongols killed anyone they found.
• Africans sold other Africans into slavery; whites bought them.
• British mass exterminated native North Americans.
• Germans murdered Jews.
• Romans murdered Jesus.
• Pakistanis murder Hindus; Indians return favor.
• Taliban murder Tajik and Hazara.
• Stalin murdered his own people.
• Spanish mass murdered Native Americans anywhere south of Mexico.
• Native Americans in South America practiced human sacrifice.
• A number of human tribes practiced cannibalism.
• Safavids good old Persians murdered non Shia Muslim or not! Also had cannibals.
• All humans mass exterminated other non human species.
• It is very likely that humans exterminated the neanderthals but that is just a guess.

Before I forget "Savalan" hates all Iranians or should I say all non Turks.

The list never stops so as they say if you are in a glass house ...

Plenty of blame to go around!