Iranian of the Day

Rest in peace unforgettable Prince !

"..."Les douleurs qui ne cicatrisent pas sont sourdes,silencieuses et ne peuvent se partager" confiait-il parfois à ses intimes..."

from a beautiful article by C. Pigozzi Paris Match 13-01-2011

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Ya khoda

Okay, fine,

but I'm going to write one final post telling you what I think. You don't have to answer it. You're right, it's time to move on. The space between the posts was too long, anyway, so it's been quite some time now.  

It is the plastic screen which unites, it is the plastic screen which tears apart.

Rosie, People who were close to him are not willing to talk

about what really pushed him to commit suicide. What was that last blow that broke him? And it appears the rest of us don't know much about him either.

Monarchists are busy mournig for him who represents (along with the rest of Pahlavi family) a time long gone but nevertheless idealized and desired by them. As it looks at this moment we may end up settling down with rumors about his last days.

I'm going to move on for now.

To our beloved Iranians

We are also sad of the death of Alireza and I hope this missing can be bring us together and help each other in other countries, not to feel useless and alone.  Love for the whole Iranians

I have a general question.

For Mola, I am reading all of the submissions on him here to try to find out what might have been going on with him. People don't seem to know all that much, and it's not unlikely that the most revealing information is in Persian, which I can't read.

But I have a general question for everyone. According to his wiki article (which is very short btw, some people might like to add to it), he was still working oh his PhD. Although I recall seeing 'post-doctoral' elsewhere. So if either is true, why do people keep saying he didn't work?

Even if he had stopped his research, what he did was all still work. And he likely stopped because of his depression anyway. Philology may well be the hardest field of all the humanities, btw.

I can understand some people might resent that he didn't have to do 'grunt' work (although actually three quarters of dissertaton work is pure grunt work anyway...), but the fact is graduate students aren't supposed to do any other work if they can help it. I's a full-time job. What was he supposed to do, go work in a Kinko's while writing a PhD just to prove to the world that he 'works'?

Yolanda - ashes could be spread from Azerbaijan/Turkemenistan

at the Iranian border into the Caspian sea with the same effect.  No need to jeopordize anyone for spreading ashes.

.....

I have not heard anything about his funeral or memorial service? Is that over already? Did they scatter his ashes in Caspian Sea? They have to do it secretly, right? IRI is very intolerant!

They Could All be Alive!

I think Shah got sick and died way too fast, he died when Iran demanded for him to return for trial.

I think a simple acting and makeup could've made him look sick, then another simple makeup could've built the dead shah while he left to live in some secluded island or in America in peace under tight security. I think both Leila and Ali-Reza could've pretended to die so they could acquire new identity, new looks, return to Iran or live like a normal person without any fear of IRI.

I actually saw Reza smile while talking to CNN when he was supposed to be mourning in shock, or I saw Farah and Reza too calm after Leila's death.

I must be wrong. Maybe I'm just hoping they're alive!

in his memory

EMROOZ KE BA SHAKHEYE SABZI BE DIDANAM NAYAY CHE SOOD ?

FARDA BA DASTE GOLI BAR MAZARAM.  Mehdi Soheyli ?

Maziar

Funny you should bring up Lord Buddha just now,

as I am sitting here thinking about how to write about this subject and it just occurs to me that no discussion of it would be truly meaningful (enlightening??? lol) without mentioning the Buddhist take on things.

That was intense btw.

It is the plastic screen which unites, it is the plastic screen which tears apart.

Rosie,

While we are on the subject of 'life just being too painful' and its relationship to suicide.

One day a disciple of Lord Buddha asked him:

"Don't you think there is too much suffering in the world?"

Buddha answered: "No, there is just enough of it". 

Wow, Mola, you sure did your homework! lol

Sorry for the delay. You wrote: 

But all my questions about why he killed himself stil remains unanswered

1. Why was he left alone during the holidays if he had a history of depression.

2. Where were the rest of the family? Scattered all over the world?

3. Where is their compassion for each other? They could at least get together during the holidays or at least make sure the 'depressed ones' are not left alone by themselves.

You'e right. I didn't even address these three questions, which pretty much boil down to one question, or certainly one issue. That issue is what your first post was concerned with:

It is always a sad situation when someone as young as he commits suicide.

Were any family member or friend with him during the Christmas holidays? Did he spend Christmas and New year alone by himself? I know of other young Iranian man/woman who committed suicide during the Christmas/new year holidays. In both cases they were alone by themselves.

May his soul rest in peace.

We could say these are specific causal issues, immediate causal factors which bring into play the specific family psychodynamics over time.

But your second post asked a very different kind of question (or questions); touched a very different kind of 'issue':

His death is a human trajedy and that's how I look at it. Why someone kills himself/herself?

What was going through his mind before ending his life?

I remember a sentence by Allen Gingsberg who used to say: "If it's hopeless, then you have nothing to worry about!"

Allen Gingsberg's comment was a positive take on life. He meant one has to let go of all the worries and not be imprisoned by them, one needs to be able to deal with life's difficulties. 

But in Alireza's case he wasn't able to go on anymore.

I would call these existential questions (bearing in mind that both the first and second type of questions can be considered 'psychological', as indeed can anything...).

Although both types of questions overlap, it is important to draw some distinction between them for now. So far my responses to you (accompanied by the Manson and the MASH videos of 'Suicide Is Painless') have begun to address the existential type of question, And while it's true that I haven't even addressed the first type of question,  it's also true that you seem to have forgotten having even asked the second type!

Well, anyway you did, and I'll continue addressing it, and I'll also tackle the first. In a new post.

For now I wanted to tell you that I wasn't aware of the Suicide song at all until I 'youtubed' in 2009 for a video to post on a suicide-related blog here, and came up with the Marilyn Manson video. (Of course it particularly intrigued me with all the roses). I only found out about a year later that the song came from MASH. I did see the movie when I was a kid (11 in '70, mom big film buff, I saw everything...) but I barely remember it--most of what I remember of MASH is from the tv show. So I only remembered the instrumental version of the song, and didn't know it came from a 'song'. 

On top of that, I was completely unaware of (aka didn't remember) the existence of the character the Painless Pole or any suicide scene in the movie until googling about the song just before posting the link to you. So you're not the only one who had homework to do. lol 

I tell you all this not as an aside, a mere matter of interest, but to stress that when it comes to the existential 'why's' of suicide, they cannot be tackled so literally--analytically, linearly, or specifically causally. They do have their answers though. In other words, whether or not there exists a Painless Pole or suicide scene in MASH is not all that important.  Although of course the fact that there is is hysterically funny.

With or without a Painless Pole, the existential question, why suicide? is implicitly built into MASH. 

You wrote at the end of your last post:

So it means if one kill himself or herself then he wont suffer any pain any more forever.

Well, I said the existential question for me is answered in five words. Those words are: Life is just too painful. But that doesn't really answer anything, it's circular. It just brings us back to well, if life is so painfull, why wasn't it for Ginsberg? Or for you.

That's why Ginsberg is a better place to start than the Painless Pole. Or even (and especially) Alireza Pahlavi.

JD: re CM the question you

JD: re CM the question you have raised assumes the Royal Institution is ruled as opposed to governed. Big difference.

RI is a cultural institution and has nothing to do with politics. Politicians are not supposed to use their election mandate to interfere in cultural matters.

So if suddenly the politicians decided to fiddle with the democratic process (as it has happened) then change the flag of the country or the name, then RI would step in.

Of course if RI decided to decide what to do with the economy etc, then political institutions would step in.

In the case of Iran we have had Kings abusing RI and not governing it, and politicians abusing democracy and becoming fascists.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

Darius

You tried to ignore my questions asking whether Shah's action in banning all political parties and unleashing Savak on his opponents were democratic. But since you are so fond on "Constitutional Monarchy" , let me rephrase my question. Was his actions in line with principles of constitutional monarchy ala England and Spain?. Last year, the Queen's palace was so cash strapped that they applied for an energy rebate program to pay the electricity bill  , but they were met with the ridicule of government who denied their request. Do you see in your wildest dream that this scenario ever happens in Iran? Can the Queen ever appoint an MP , fire a Prime Minister , or throw some one in jail? There was no parallel  between Shah's rule and any European constitutional monarchy. And if a republic is destined to fail in Iran , by the same rationale , a true constitutional monarchy will fail too.

I have always been impressed by your library of videos about every single trip that Shahanshah Aryamehr and Shahbanoo Farah took , domestic or abroad. But brother, you are living in the past .  You wont be able to find a single example of regime that switched bak to monarchy from republic.

I also have serious issues with your assertion that Israel can establish a democracy because its people migrated from Europe. I believe than an average Iranian youth today is more aware and politically savvy than many of us  on this board , including yours truly. 

Had this revolution not been hijacked by Islamists, we had the opportunity to  become a shining example of democracy in the region. Khomeini betrayed our collective trust and I will never forgive him for it.

Delilah , thanks for the correction.  

Rosie, But all my questions about why he killed himself still re

mains unanswered.

1. Why was he left alone during the holidays if he had a history of depression.

2. Where were the rest of the family? Scattered all over the world?

3. Where is their compassion for each other? They could at least get together during the holidays or at least make sure the 'depressed ones' are not left alone by themselves.

-Rosie, about the song 'Suicide is Painless:

First I had to sit down and watch the suicide scene in MASH the movie. Then I had to do some more reading to see what the song is really meant. So it means if one kill himself or herself then he wont suffer any pain any more forever. Right? Well here is the lyrics:

From MASH sound track:

Through early morning fog I see
Visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...

That suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.

The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna to lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
So this is all I have to say

That suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please

The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger...watch it grin

And Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.

A brave man once requested me
To answer questions that are the key
Is it to be or not to be
and I replied 'oh why ask me?

And suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.

and you can do the same thing if you please."

Suicide is Painless is the sound track for the openning scene of the movie called MASH. The song is sang during the following scene again:

Dr Painless's character in the movie Mash is going to kill himself because he was not able to perform his manly tasks when he was with a woman and he's afraid that he has turned gay!

This is what is written about Dr Painless's suicide scene while the song is sang in Wikipedia:

'Dago Red the camp's chaplain, tells Hawkeye that "Painless Pole" Waldowski, the unit's dentist, has consulted him about a problem. Though Mulcahy feels unable to divulge any details (Waldowski had come to him in confession), he makes clear the severity of the problem. Waldowski, the "best equipped dentist in the army", tells Hawkeye that he has suffered a "lack of performance" with a visiting nurse and now believes that he has latent homosexual tendencies. Soon after, he reveals his desire to commit suicide and seeks advice on which method to use. Hawkeye, Trapper, and Duke suggest that he use the "black capsule" (a fictitious, fast-acting poison). At an impromptu Last Supper, Painless takes the capsule (actually a sleeping pill) and falls asleep in a coffin to the strains of "Suicide is Painless"". Hawkeye then persuades Lt. Maria "Dish Schneider, one of the nurses who is returning to the U.S. the following day, to spend the night with Painless, thus curing him of his problems."

Correction. The Way You Were (Shah Era, The Glory Days)

I wrote just below to Deerooz correcting him on when he wrote:

It reminds me of the song Memory by Barbara Streisand  where she says Time rewrites every line of memories. 

As I pointed out, the song is 'The Way We Were'. Totally understandable confusion, since it begins 'Memories light the corners of my mind.... ' I wrote that it asks whether we idealize the past. Actually, upon relistening, I realized that at first it asks, but it concludes with a firm 'yes."'

__________________

The fairest of the fair

DK ihas always been one of them. I do not take any position on what is better for Iran: constitutional monarchy (monarch presides, not rules) or republic. I only have some serious doubts about whether monarchy would be desired there now, and I certainly have not been able to draw any reliable conclusions here, since some people I respect say the overwhelming majority in Iran regret the ousting of the Shah, whereas pretty much an equal number of others insist that only three people who are cousins of the LA satellite broadcasters do.

I just want to point out that Darius's take has a lot of food for thought in it, as is often the case. And his post also would appear to idealize those 'Glory Days' far less than some.

It is the plastic screen which unites, it is the plastic screen which tears apart.

Darius

Thanks for the kind words! : )
I'll help achieve democracy for Iran wherever and whenever I can, and for the time being, I don't see it in your rap! That is even though I'm giving the chance for a democracy to be achieved under a monarchy.
And you're right, I give a republican system more chance to have democracy achieved under its umbrella in Iran than a monarchy.
Oh, and give it up! ; )

JavoonDeerooz Kheily Javooni Ya Koory ?

What do you mean by Going Back ? To begin with What makes you draw the Conclusion that the Republican Form is Moving Forward ? The Past 30 years have proved quite the contrary and I should add that is the case for nearly ALL the nations in the Middle East to date which have ousted their Old Monarchies to achieve their so called Democracy under a Republic ( secular or Not).

Israel Set aside being an exception it cannot even serve as a historical model of social evolution for their Democracy ( which is genuine under a Republican form) is the result of an Importation and massive settlement of European Jews for the most all of whom prior to establishing Israel lived in Democratic societies in the West.

Which People in the Middle East have achieved what you call a progressive political system ?

How Much Forward have countries like Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan gone ahead eversince they ousted their Monarchs ?

You fellows keep Pointing a Finger to Royal Institutions claiming they are Not Legitimate nor Democratic based on Historical and philisophical concepts you Copy and Paste from European or American History whuch you have barely Studied properly but close an eye on examples set forward by Monarchists who suggest a Parliamentary Democracy like in Spain, Great Britain or other Western and North European Countries which you dismiss because you are Filled with Intellectual arrogance and Prejudice.

ROYAL FORUM: Explaining the Concept of a Constitutional Monarchy to a Staunch Republican

The Real Fact is that Iranians at large are Immature both Politically and Philisophically.

We have not produced One single groundbreaking Political thinker in the past 30 years and even less in the Past Century eversince the Constitutional Revolution of 1906 which aimed not to overthrow the monarchy but Reform it be it by Forcing the King to accept a Constitution.

You fellows keep Brining Up Mossadegh as an Icon of Political Thinking and Democratic aspiration.

Baba Azazam Wake Up and Use Some Logic :

THE PAST IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY: How Would You Evaluate Iran's Democracy Index in 1953 ?

You fellows claim to understand Democracy and Politics but I bet you have never even bothered to read Machiavelli's Prince :

HISTORY FORUM: Machiavelli's "The Prince" and the "Art" of Governing 

Politics is Not about Good Vs Bad, Morality Vs Immorality ...

It is first and foremost about Governing Efficiently and running the country in order to have fruitful results whatever that goal maybe.

Democracy however essential is but just one ingredient that defines the political thought of those in charge of running a country including in a purely democratic society regardless of whether that country is run under a Republican Form of government or a Constitutional Monarchy.

The Trouble with You Iranian Jomhurykhah is your Weak VERY Weak understanding of history in general and Political philosophy at large.

Sure we have our flaws including narrow minded Monarchists who believe in Absolute Monarchy which constitute a minority.

But You fellows love to use them as counter examples in order to refuse and dismiss any mature debate with those Monarchists who contrary to you have at least given a thought to the political evolution, failures and success' of the Political Model they have in mind for Iran's future:

CONSTITUTIONALIST FORUM: Daryoush Homayoun Political and Journalistic life Honored in Germany 

To reduce them to Fanatic Monarchists or Bee Savad LA TV Presentators is Such a Convenient excuse to refuse debate.

That is what Frustrates me with You People.

You Wish to Come Across Clean, Pure, Morally Superior and Legitimate When all You have to offer as an Alternative to our Mediocre LA Monarchists equally mediocre and Intellectually Pompous ignorant Jomhurykhah's like this Fellow:

MOSHIRI's COLD HAND's: Bahram Moshiri Slams Pahlavi Era Gun Ban Policies

Who hardly know or understand what they are talking about:

HISTORY FORUM: Bahram Moshiri's Take on The French Revolution and Why He Misses The Point ;0)

The TRouble with You Jomhurykhah's is that you have turned "Republicanism" into a Narrow minded Dogma.

Even if I favor it for sentimental and historical reasons I don't claim the Monarchy including a Constitutional Monarchy is the Only Possible Solution to the Nation's ills.

You Fellows on the contrary including those "Intellectuals" who endorse a Republic in Iran ranging from the likes of Hamid Dabashi to Trita Parsi or the Non Iranian Stephan Kinzer ( author of All the Shah's Men) however believe that a Jomhury is the Only Possible Solution and refuse ANY compromise or dialogue with those who like monarchist don't share their views. In addition Poroo ham hasteed by often asking the Man we consider Our Legitimate Sovereign Crown Prince Reza to give up his Right to the Throne as the only condition to accept him as a partner.

Well Dream On !

You Fellows Stole our Country We Won't Let You Highjack Our King or Memory !

And Something tells me we are Not alone including back home:

Lady In IRan shouts Javid Shah and quotes from the Shahnameh

GIVE ME BACK MY COUNTRY: Bold Poem by a fellow compatriot denounces Ahmadinejad's Iran

Words For Eternity ...

You know What ? Go Ahead Go Have your Republic It will turn Iran into a Swiss Cheese and Parham Jaan and other Iranian Jomhurykhah Likeminds can even help you achieve it:

The Third Man - Cuckoo clock speech with subtitles

Noosheh Jaan ! 

Mola, 'Suicide Is Painless', (Deerooz, Norooz)

his point of view about suicide is probably close to why 'some' people commit suicide.

Did you put quotation marks around 'some' to stress that  not all people do it for this reason? And what do you think the reason he gives in the video is? I am also wondering why you found his make-up so distracting. It was only in the first frame.

As for whether or not Alireza was a fan, I have no idea, how would I? But I highly doubt it. Although I'm sure he would've been a fan of this particular song. Actually, the Manson song is a cover.

Here is the Marilylin Manson clip I posted for you.

Here is the original song in its original context

So what do you think the song really says about why people commit suicide? I think it can be summed up in five words.

_____________

Deerooz, the Streisand song you mean which asks whether we idealize the past is 'The Way We Were', from the movie of the same name. 'Memory' is her cover of the song from the musical, 'Cats'. 

Norooz, I am more like the second guy you mentioned. In fact I have raised it to the level of a fine science. I think the Delilah you are thinking of is my last boyfriend.

Well, we'll see what emrooz has to offer.

It is the plastic screen which unites, it is the plastic screen which tears apart.

JavoonDeerooz

Thank you!

alimostofi

You make good point however Iran is not powerless. Remember China was doing terrible. It was being exploited by the West and so on. Their leadership managed to bring them to top. So yes the companies are doing what you are saying. 

But we do not have to fall for it 100%.

India and China both have prospered despite Western attempts to keep them back. We should learn from them. USA will do what it does. It will try to sell its junk as China and others do. We should be smart enough to deal with them.

Thank you,

VPK

Veiled Prophet: Ceremonial

Veiled Prophet: Ceremonial is Cultural. Communism, or the fear of communists destroying Iranian culture is what made the Shah do what he did. Was it the arms companies? If so nothing has changed. Instead of US we have the Ayatollahs being the servants of India and China. At the end of the day money is going from sales of oil to useless projects. Finally the US was told to leave Iran to police the area against USSR. That meant less money for US arms industry. So this regime is the new threat US needs.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

JavoonDeerooz

Shah's excesses in establishing an authoritarian  regime paved the way for Khomeini Dayuss to seize power and set us back 200 years. Let's learn from history

I admire what Shah tried to do; I prefer him over IR any day; I support RP. But Shah was a dictator not question about it. Iran was no democracy at all. Shah removing civil institutions did pave the way for Khomeini. We should learn from the past. No more dictators. If we do get a King it will be ceremonial only.

That is why I rather see RP as a President or Prime Minister with power. However there are good reasons for a monarchy to keep the nation together.

alex jaan

i'm right there with you......

freedom is very near.....that is for sure 

Delavar, you really think Iran was a democracy under Shah?

And is that the type of democracy that you wish we go back to? I was 22 when Shah left and I cannot think of a single free election in the previous regime. Was it democracy when Shah closed down even the imaginary, government controlled opposition parties system and ordered everyone to join Rastakhiz party? Was it democracy where you could not criticize even the most minute aspect of Shah's actions and not be taken to Savak? As time passes we are all becoming more and more nostalgic about the good old times. It reminds me of the song Memory by Barbara Streisand  where she says Time rewrites every line of memories. I think Turkey had a much more vibrant political system than we ever did. 

Shah's excesses in establishing an authoritarian  regime paved the way for Khomeini Dayuss to seize power and set us back 200 years. Let's learn from history 

Lets hope the next Shah of

Lets hope the next Shah of Iran has humility to not hurt the feelings of those who spread lies about his father and just ignores their envy and ignorance.  Can you smell it?  It's the smell of freedom!

My Intuition talking to me Again!

I was just reading over these postings and have a funny feeling that there are going to be plenty of upset people when the Shah comes back to the peacock throne. 

After speaking with a few young Iranians that are renting a home from me, as they are studying and their wishes for their future something is very clear, based on their words.  I realize that both within Iran and outside Iran, the majority of people have a good image of the late shah and his family and wish Iran could go back before the mullahs, but based on postings I read there are a minority who hate the royals and are particularly passionate.

Did anyone watch the Disney movie the Lion king.  How he grew up and made a journey back to claim his rightful place, yet he had other dark/envious lions that challenged him and were busy getting fat off the land they stole in cold blood. 

It's a very similar story to Irans, the king was portrayed as the enemy of the lions and was betrayed, (y'know like despot/dictator/megalomaniac even after all the good he had done) even the hyenas that helped the bad lions come to power eventually sided with the rightful heir.  It's a cute story and has occured everywhere in the world you care to look... and as if by surprise we are supposed to be shocked by the out come when it happens for Iran.  Even the proud british were on ther knees begging for ther king to come back after his father was defeated in the civil war and beheaded. His son threw a big party I hear.

Lets hope the next Shah of Iran has humility to not hurt the feelings of those who spread lies about his father and just ignores their envy and ignorance.  Can you smell it?  It's the smell of freedom!

Azadi Nazdik Aste.  Lets Dance and Sing.  All together now.

Rosie,

Watched the suicide song by Manson.

His make up is very distracting.

Although his point of view about suicide is probably close to why 'some' people commit suicide.

Was Alireza a Marylin Manson fan?