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Nonsense Assadabadi

You fail to provide a single scholarly source for all your baseless and outrageous, not to say preposterous, claims about the Shiite faith and its principles (like Shura in Shiism is kofr!! who says so? source?) Instead you keep regurgitating, in the middle of your nonesensical claims, some obvious facts that every kid on the steets of Qum or Najaf knows like "Velayti Faqih is not mainstream shiism"! Wow, how did you come up with such mind boggling revelation?!! Besides who said VF is mainstream in the first place that you try to derail the debate by making such a most obvious but totally unrelated and out of place comment. Hey, by the way did you know that Ali was not a Shiite (LOL)?

You see I am so tired of teaching you "internet-educated" kids whose little knowledge comes from "websites!!!!". Brother Assad, my knowledge comes from the sources on which your internet websites are allegedly based. Chances are that you haven't even read a page of Kafi because you csn't read or write a word in Arabic.

Incidentally Ali was not appoined by Allah. He was appointed by the prophet himself according to the Shiite narrative. But all these have no relation with the shiite practices post the 12th Imam. After the 12th Imam, we have no longer a god appointed Imam as there is Imam MUST be Ma'soom (look it up if you don't know the meaning) and the same Shiite belief maintains that there are no m'asoom's left on earth after the 12th Imam, kapish? So the next leader (nayeb Imam ghaayeb) is elected by the majority following.

Oh, by the way, I am not resorting to personal insults as you allege. I simply state the facts. Your comments are so immature and emotive that you must have in in our diapers when I was studying al-Kafi in howzeh!

 For an Islamic democracy

Nonsense Assadabadi

You fail to provide a single scholarly source for all your baseless and outrageous, not to say preposterous, claims about the Shiite faith and its principles (like Shura in Shiism is kofr!! who says so? source?) Instead you keep regurgitating, in the middle of your nonesensical claims, some obvious facts that every kid on the steets of Qum or Najaf knows like "Velayti Faqih is not mainstream shiism"! Wow, how did you come up with such mind boggling revelation?!! Besides who said VF is mainstream in the first place that you try to derail the debate by making such a most obvious but totally unrelated and out of place comment. Hey, by the way did you know that Ali was not a Shiite (LOL)?

You see I am so tired of teaching you "internet-educated" kids whose little knowledge comes from "websites!!!!". Brother Assad, my knowledge comes from the sources on which your internet websites are allegedly based. Chances are that you haven't even read a page of Kafi because you csn't read or write a word in Arabic.

Incidentally Ali was not appoined by Allah. He was appointed by the prophet himself according to the Shiite narrative. But all these have no relation with the shiite practices post the 12th Imam. After the 12th Imam, we have no longer a god appointed Imam as there is Imam MUST be Ma'soom (look it up if you don't know the meaning) and the same Shiite belief maintains that there are no m'asoom's left on earth after the 12th Imam, kapish? So the next leader (nayeb Imam ghaayeb) is elected by the majority following.

Oh, by the way, I am not resorting to personal insults as you allege. I simply state the facts. Your comments are so immature and emotive that you must have been in your diapers when I was studying al-Kafi in howzeh!

 For an Islamic democracy

Deleted

Deleted posted to the wrong thread.

On Velayat e Faqih

First of all, I'm not even shia but that's beside the point.  Don't you realize that VF is not part of mainstream shia beliefs?  Khomeini was a renegade.  In other words, shiism as practiced/espoused in Iran is not the best representation of Shia beliefs.  Shiism, as espoused by most shias, supports political quietism.  The website www.al-islam.org is one of the most authoritative 12er sites.  I'm surpised you don't even know about this.  Yes, nahjul balagha is not considered reliable by shias--meaning it is not a source for their laws.  Shia laws come from the Quran and their hadith books (al Kafi).

I'm glad that you mentioned ghadir khum.  According to shias, Ali became the leader of the Muslims at ghadir khum.  Was he elected by the Muslims (shura) or was he chosen by God?  They say it was divine appointment.

You are wrong about Ali and his relatinoship with the first 3 caliphs.  Shias say that Ali did not respect/recognize the first 3 caliphs.  They say that he was practicing taqiyyah and that's why he accepted their rule (outwardly only).  Please don't be an idiot and start resorting to personal insults just because you don't have anything intelligent to say.

So we have a new sub-sect in Shiite Asadabadi!! :))

Listen brother you are either completely confused and mixed up or are trying to push in a newly made up version of Shiite that can only exist in your own mind.  The site that you are quoting from, as dubuious as it is, talks about Imamate as it was limited to the 12 Imams of the Shi'a sect. You obviously have never heard of the first and formeost qualifying requirement for being an Alh al beyt Imam otherwsie you wouldn't have said what you said:  Imam must be ma'soom.  And there is NO ONE in the world Ma'soom except for the 14 ma'sooms as believed in the Shi'a ethna ashari. You also seem to have never heard of ghadir khom which is the basis if Shiite belief in the succession of Ali. Nevertheless, Ali did not rebel against the other three khalifs and this shows that he had respected the election of the three other Imams to replace the prophet (pbuh)/ Equally you are manifestly unfamiliar with the Shi'a's process of electing a leading Grand Aytollah which is based on the number of his constituents - a sign of Shura.

I don't know how you have come up with such outlandish ideas that the Shiite think nahjoal belaagih may not be reliable!! or that Shiite think Shura is kofr!! Obviously you never looked at the slogan inside the Shiite ruled Majless Shura in Tehran. Next time take a look and then I may see this debate worthy of attention. Until hen I suggest to change your diapers because I was reading Al-Kafi when you were still in your diapers.  was reading al-Kafi when you were in your diapers

 For an Islamic democracy

@salman farsi

Instead of quoting a few obscure statements from nahjul balagha, please read this instead:

//www.al-islam.org/shiism/5.htm

By the way, Shias don't even consider nahjul balagha reliable.  That's why their hadith come from a different source.  You should check al-Kafi instead.

Again, you quote 2 verses from the Quran that refer to consultation, but instead of mentioning the shia view you keep quoting the sunni view and you label it "shia".

Rea

I was not referring to Zoroastrianism because in fact it is monotheistic. However it changed a lot in time. During the initial days of Achaemenids they were very tolerant.

Sassanids made it the religion of the state and were less tolerant. It was really not so much the religion. But the Mobed aka clerics and the King who set policy. If the King was nice you got tolerance if not you did not. Zoroastrianism itself does not demand conversion. These days it is hard to even convert. In the old days conversion was common. But to do so you needed to accept it "with an open heart and mind". Not by force.

We cross posted ;o)

Until next time.

One more thing VPK

You're probably refering to Zoroastrians.

Firstly, I don't know enough about them to be able to discuss.  Secondly, even with my lack of knowledge ref. Zoroastrians, I know it is not a prevalent religion in Iran.

One has to do with what one has. There is no point in going centuries back saying: "if only...." ! 

Rea

I don't know much about Aztecs but Romans were more tolerant. They did allow different religions. They did not like political opposition in name of religion. But they allowed Mithraism. Greeks under Potalemy accepted the Egyptian religion. They did not force theirs on them. So maybe I just don't know enough but from what I see monotheism is much less tolerant of different religions. By nature if there is just one God there is no room for other ones is there.

VPK

Aztecs, ancient Egyptians, Romans, etc. were all polytheists. However, no more tolerant or kinder to people subdued than those who followed in their steps under the banner of monotheism.

Personally, I find religion to be fine, mono- or polytheist, kinda history and culture générale.  But only on condition that faith, product of religion, stays within the private sphere. 

This regime

is not coming back onec it is gone. The real question is what replaces it. If NeoCons get their way they want to put MKO in charge. Then divide up the nation and wreck it. Believe me the NeoCon plan for Iran is 10 times worse than IRI. 

As much as I am unsure Ebadi is probably the best chance for an interim leader. I hoped against reality that RP would be the one. But you got to face reality. RP is just not up to it. He is perfectly happy with the 60 million his father left him. Not a billionaire but gives you a very nice life. Specially if you are not willing to take a chance. 

Shushtari Jan

the shah should have exterminated this cockroach in iraq- sadam hussein asked him several times" let me take care of this pos...." but this monster was spared....

You are right. It pains me to agree with Saddam but he was right. I would have let him do it. Then sendt Saddam a real gift as thanks. It may have even let our nations smooth out some of the difference.

But Shah was soft and that cost us so much. Without Khomeini the revolution may have taken a very different course. The other Mollahs were not as radical as him. Maybe Bakhtiyar would have survived. If not at least Bazargan or Bani Sadr both of whom were at least half decent may have taken power. The only danger was that MEK would take over. That part Khomeini dealt with brutal force. I do not approve of the executions of innocent people. But he did keep Rajavi out of power.

مبانی شورایی مذهب شیعه اثنی عشری

برادرانم اسد اباد و قاسم
یا ماخذ اراجیف خود را نشان دهید و یا خاموش.

 استخراج شده از نهج البلاغه

آنکه به آراء دیگران می پردازد ،از خطا ها در امان است.

                                                                    حضرت علی (ع)

بلند پایه ترین مردم در خرد و اندیشه کسی ا ست که خود را از مشو رت بی نیاز نداند .

                                                                                                                                                                 حضرت علی (ع)

پیش از رفتن از رفیق بپرس .

                                    حضرت علی (ع)

هر که در مهمات با خرد مندان مشورت کند شریک عقل آنها می شود .

                                                   حضرت علی (ع)

پيامبر و ائمه معصومين نيز بر انجام امور با مشورت و شورا تأكيدداشته اند . از جمله حضرت علي (ع) كه در باب شورا فرامين خارج از شما داشته و چنين فرموده اند .“ من شاور الرجال شاركها في عقولها.” ( كسيكه با انسانهاي ديگر مشورت مي كند در عقلهاي آنان شريك است )درجايي ديگر مشورت كردن را موجب دوري از استبداد دانسته و چنين بيان داشته اند : “انسان همينكه خود را در سطح مشورت قرار داد از استبداد دور شده است .”  طبق دستور قرآن كريم :“وامرهم شوري بينهم ”و “شاورهم في الامر ”

 For an Islamic democracy

i agree with amir....

the shah should have exterminated this cockroach in iraq- sadam hussein asked him several times" let me take care of this pos...." but this monster was spared....

even as late as 1978, he could have been sent to hell 10 years early.....before he could destroy iran and kill millions of innocent iranians

when there is a grave threat to your nation, you take it out...pure and simple.... 

No to IRI - نــه به رژیـم اسلامی

پاســخ نــه به رفراندم اسلامـیـسـت ها در ســراســر ایران جاری است

امیر نورمندی

khomeini

I wish he was sent to "heaven" early on in the revolution by the MKO or the forghan.  The good news is that this man is becoming more and  more hated in Iran as the years pass.  He single handedly turned Iran into the Medieval Theocratic state that it is today.  Among his crimes:  killing thousands of our best youth because they opposed his dictatorial valayete faghih principle.  Gouging of eyes, cutting of limbs, hideous tortures.  Violating virgins before execution to make sure that they don't automatically go to heaven.  Charging the parents of the executed youth the bullet money that was spent on them.  Instigating the Iran-Iraq war and prolonging it for 8 years to fortify his power.  The hostage crisis and the other terror activities that have made being Iranian synonymous with being terrorists.  Taking adavantage of the ignorant people's religious beliefs to send them to their deaths and buttressing his regime.  This man was a monster the like of which Iran has not seen in any era (normalized to the period in history) since the Mongols.  I really hope that there is a heaven and hell because he would be burning in hell forever.   

iranians

Iranians deserve nothing better than him!!! 80%+ of Iranians are nothing but a whole bunch of wild animals stuck in the barberic  middle ages!!!

Rea

I am not so sure about all religions. The polytheistic religions were more tolerant. They would simply say you have your god and we have ours. It was the advent of Christianity and Islam that really messed things up. 

On Khomeini

Khomeini was the biggest liar, murderer, and hypocrite.  Iranians were stupid to welcome him and the Shah was even more stupid for not killing him.  Hopefully the Iranians have learned their lesson.  Never show mercy to this regime or they will come back to murder you and your whole family without blinking an eye.

In another religion

...... people like him had accused women of witchcraft and had them burn at the stake. He would've done the same thing had he lived long enough.

PS. mind you, the only word I understood from his speech is "dushman", comes from Turkish. ;o) 

Shia 'Islam' is the most BS version of Islam ever produced

Shia is all a bunch of non sense fiction created by Iraninas to revenge the Arab/Muslim domination of Iran. IT HAS ZERO, REPEAT ZERO, THEOLOGICAL BASE AND VALUE.

So here we have Islam, it self a hudge pudge of Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism, like all other religions a man made product. On top of this BS fiction we have " Shia" Islam a distortion on top of a distortion, and to top it off, we have Islamic Republic of Hell as the embidiment of BS on top of BS. Isn't this a wonderfull world? cheers

Mehraban

I have said it before and I say it again here anyone and I mean anyone with the control of the oil revenues in Iran can hire unlimited number of thugs and become a despot in no time flat. 

A few things:

1) I have always said oil is a curse on Iran. We are better off it we never had it.

2) That is why there needs to be checks and balances. No single person should have total power. No king; VF or Chair of the Politburo.

3) But you are right there may still be despots. That is why measure of the leader matters. If we had Gandhi or Mandella instead of Khomeini we would not be here. Not all people are so easily corrupted. We need to be very careful who we pick.

I hope this makes my postion more clear to people.

VPK

@salman farsi

The word shia itself comes from the phrase shi'at Ali which means followers of Ali.  Shias believe that Ali was chosen by God himself.  If shias were ok with shura then there never would have been shiism in the first place!  Shias would have recognized Abubakr--because he was chosen by the people--and that's it. 

@salman farsi

Shiism promotes shura?  Are you kidding me?  Shiism considers Shura to be blasphemy.  Shura is a concept promoted within Sunni Islam.  You really need to study the basics of Shiism because you are extremely misinformed.  Do you even know what the concept of Imamah is?  Do you know what Khalifah means?  Anyway,  Shias believe that God chooses the leaders of the Muslim community.  Shias say that anyone who uses shura to choose the leadership is practicing kufr (disbelief).

Taking people's word at face value

I take no one's word at face value when it comes to Iran's future, not Rajavi, not Reformists and not RP and at the present they are all saying the same thing, "Secular Democracy".  In the future of Iran (like any other democracy) there needs to be a system of checks and balances that prevents anyone from gaining absolute power.  

I have said it before and I say it again here anyone and I mean anyone with the control of the oil revenues in Iran can hire unlimited number of thugs and become a despot in no time flat.  

Mis-characterization of other bloggers comments is most despicable. 

Dear Roozbeh,

Thank you for your insights. I think you make many valid observations. The CIA officer responsible for the Mideast during much of the Cold War, Miles Copeland Jr (father to Stewart Copeland, the drummer for the rock band The Police), has mentioned some of the contacts between the CIA and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. The full story is rather complex, though, because the CIA also had contacts with Jamal Abdul-Nasser, who was the Brotherhood's nemesis. Regards.

Re: Ayat Shaytan Khomeini's statements in Frnace were all lies,

You are absolutely right of course. That should be a lesson to those like "Mehraban" who take Rajavi at her word. Let us not fall agiain to another lie just as we did before with Khomeini.

Ayat Shaytan Khomeini's statements in Frnace were all lies,

He promised everything to everybody (many people remember those lies, and some have actually posted them here on IC a while ago) and the majority  were hopelss enough, naive enough, desperate enough, to buy it.

Islamic Republic was built and is based on lies from day one

Golden Age

Was when Bakhtyar was in charge. There was freedom of speech and no censorship. No forced hijab; and a real hope for democracy. I agree Khomeini in France was a Golden Age. He should have stayed there for good!