Arts & Culture

SK jan

What you stated at the end of your last rely is not really the problem , it is rather one of the advantages of having been educated. 

what is so problematic about making an attempt to dispel myths and superstition as a result of being educated?!!

Still wrong Soosan

"...I am not sure that they have enough intelligence..."

I can introduce you to the most thoughtful, insightful, aware, intelligent person who I have ever met in my 57 years.  This person, as I've stated, is Canada's huge gain and Iran's huge loss. I'm sure that there are many more just like her in the Iranian Diaspora.

"...if we seek another Reza Shah or another Khomeni..."

Have I ever proposed an Iranian government led either by the likes of the Shahs or by the likes of the Mullahs?  Both are unsatisfactory, but of the two evils the Mullahs are infinitely worse.  When the time comes that the IRI dies a justified and overdue death, we should all hope that the new government is efficient and progressive regardless of which form it takes.

"...to prove that they have to bash religion and people's belief..."

Those of us who are non-religious do not need to "bash" religion, since the adherents of most or all religions already succeed in discrediting their own religions.  Religion is mostly based on superstition, fear and ignorance; there is not much that is rational or intelligent about any of them.

Education may or may not bring one the needed Intelligence

So although I agree that they are educated I am not sure that they have enough intelliance to precive the world that they are living in as anything other than just black and white.   Reza Shah started the hate campaign towards women with hejab and Khomeni did exactly the same but this time the target was women without Hejab. An intelligent Iranian woman should see no difference in the evil nature of both acts and should condemn both. That is what I call tolerance as opposite to hate  Otherwise, what is it that we are going to achieve after all these years if we seek another Reza Shah or another Khomeni to tell women what to wear or not to wear? If this simple concept is hard to comprehend then how can I even go further and discuss anything with you? The problem with our educated ones, both man and woman, is that they think they are intellectual and intelligent and to prove that they have to bash religion and people's belief, sadly,however, that makes them anything but intelligent. 

Soosan, you couldn't be more wrong

As long as you continue to write things such as "these non intelligent and hateful women", I will continue to correct your error.  In Canada, at least, immigration is based primarily on the applicant's education, age and qualifications.  Therefore the people that leave Iran, and other countries, for Canada are almost all young, educated, intelligent and skilled.  No country can afford to lose this type of person.  All of these women are assets to Canada and losses to Iran.  Not one of them has expressed any feelings of hatred in my presence, although you can be sure that they have many criticisms of the IRI regime and its leaders.

And since, in my opinion, the eventual overthrow and replacement of the current IRI regime will be primarily instigated by women, not by men, then the loss of thousands of brave, dynamic women can only serve to delay the departure of the IRI.

As for Reza Shah, whether you agree or disagree with his policies I'm sure that you would have to admit that he believed in advancing and improving Iran, unlike the current crop of bearded fools.

Oh yes Raoul, I am.

Be aware.  Be very aware. I bite too. 

LOL.   

Soosan:

I have been reading the exchanges and it crossed my mind to ask you a very simple question:

Is it possible [to be technically correct I should have asked for the probability, but..] that you, YOURSELF are a hateful person who is totally BLIND to the facts, hence totally incapable of changing your own mind?

John, if you truly believe in what you said about

Reza Shah then our further discussion is completely useless.  I exactly know what  type of people you are talking about. These non intelligent and hateful women you are so blindly defending are long way to go to become slightly aware pf the world we are living in. You have no clue.   

Sorry that I couldn't change your mind ..  Meanwhile you can apply for that VF position in Canada and have these women who are the product of Reza Shah vote for you.    

I really have to go now.  Nice talking to you.  

Response to your assumptions about me

Soosan, here are my responses to some of your statements:

1) I have been surrounded only by Iranians who have no knowledge about Islam and who are filled with hate.

• All of them are born-and-raised Muslims who are open-minded enough to see both the benefits and the drawbacks of Islam.  Not one of them is hateful; in fact they are more likely to feel pity than hate.

2) I do not blame them for their ignorance as much as I blame Reza shah and Ayatollah khomeni for creating such hateful and intolerant crowds.

• As previously stated, none of them are hateful or intolerant and they certainly aren't ignorant.  Au contraire, they are open, happy, aware, productive citizens with a lot to offer their new country.  Believe me, losing these intelligent, dynamic women to emigration is a huge loss for Iran.
• Reza Shah contributed largely to building them into intelligent, educated and enlightened women.
• Ayatollahs (Khomeini, Khamenei and others) and Mullahs created the conditions that made them decide to leave, but their persecution and discrimination did not make them hateful.

3) Being a Canadian and blending with Iranian just shows that you have the tendency to tolerant different race why not then different religions?

• Once male-centric governments and male-perpetrated discrimination against women is conquered, the next logical step would be to eradicate or minimize the effect of all religions on our lives, particularly in places where they influence governments (are you listening IRI?)  Also, I hope that you don't think that the imposition of hijab on women is related to religion, because it isn't.  It's intended to keep women under control even though it's disguised as a religious adjunct.

...........

A rational analysis of hijab can only conclude that it is a habit that is imposed by men on women, generally against their will. 

************

well-said!
Thank you, John!

Women are forced to wear hijab while playing soccer in Iran. Very inhumane!

Ahmedinejad should play 90 minutes of soccer wearing hijab and tell us how he feels!

John, unfortunately you have been surrounded by

those Iranians who have not only no knowledge about Islam but also are filled with hate. I do not blame them for their ignorance as much as I blame Reza shah and Ayatollah khomeni for creating such hateful and intolerant crowds.  I suggest you look outside of the circle of friends that you have chosen to be with. Being a Canadian and blending with Iranian just shows that you have the tendency to tolerant different race why not then different religions?  Think about it ....

Here one muslim woman whom I admire.

Interviews - Amina Wadud | Muslims | FRONTLINE | PBS

There are more !  These women are out there you just have to open your eyes as well as your heart and listen to what they have to say before accusing them of being an slave to the muslim men. 

And I am a lot calmer today! 

 : )

Elaboration of my position

Soosan, here's an elaboration of my position on this topic:

Which part of my comments do you dispute?  Is it the part that proposes that women shouldn't be dominated or oppressed by men?  A rational analysis of hijab can only conclude that it is a habit that is imposed by men on women, generally against their will.  The woman represented by this news item most likely continues to wear hijab when it isn't required only because she adapted to it when it was forced on her in Iran, and she doesn't feel at ease casting off her cultural shackles.

On the other end of the spectrum, of all the Iranian women who I have met in Canada, including my girlfriend, her friends, the students and staff at my Farsi school, people in shops, restaurants and elsewhere, only one wears hijab (a middle-aged woman who exercises at the gym wearing her long pants, manteau and headscarf).

Every Iranian-Canadian woman who I've spoken with has complete contempt and disdain for hijab, and when forced to wear it, for example when they visit Iran or go to the Iranian Embassy in Ottawa, they all remove it the second that the airplane leaves Iranian air space, or the second that they get out of sight of the security cameras and ten foot high locked iron gates at the Embassy (it sounds like a prison, doesn't it).

When we see stories on Iranian.com about hijab-wearing athletes, for example the Iranian Olympic sprinter, or swimmers, or soccer players, all, or almost all, of the comments mock the stupidity of the male-run governments that impose these absurdities on their female athletes.

Maybe it is defenders of hijab who are out of touch with the reality of what hijab actually is - it is an act of aggression by men against women, and women need to tell their male oppressors to eff off.

.......

Rea, you couldn't be more wrong. There are many educated Muslim women living in the west observing hejab with basically NONE of the scenarios you are predicting here. Polygamy is not being practice at all.  I am more worry about the Mormons than Muslims.  At least here in the U.S that has not been the case.  Muslims I know and interact with are from various places on this earth and they are as ordinary as ordinary can get when it comes to married life.   A small scarf wouldn't make that much difference on one's intellect and way of life.   And yes a woman should be free to choose and NO ONE has the right to say otherwise. Further more, some of these women are new converts and they know no other country     .. I am so disappointed at you for  being so intolerant.  

 John, VF is the highest rank of mulla. The major Ayatallah. 

Soosan K.

If you accept hijab as a sign of woman's choice, good for you. I don't. It starts with hijab, then goes on to niqab n burka. Then comes 4 wives, why not, he has the right to choose too.

Don't know about Canada but it doesn't fit into the streets of Europe. I'm glad France has forbidden it. In schools, at least.

Personally, will always fight against it.

She wants hijab? Fine with me. But then she should stay in her own country or should go where hijab is a norm. SA, for ex.

Moslems, Sharia and Canada. John is right, Soosan is not

John is right in general to point out the fact that many Moslems come to civilized world (Canada, US, etc..) and rather than changining themselves to be good citizens to the host country, they keep to themselves , wear these monkey suits (hejab) and impose it on other Muslims and soon declare it as norm. Few years ago the Moslem idiots wanted to impose their barbaris Sharia law in Canada !

//www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2008/feb/08/sh...

Thanks to efforts of Canadians and many Iranian-Canadian women groups who opposed and exposed this barbaric Isllamic tradition and it was defeated

This woman may not be one of the Sharia type women, but true moslems (the ones who follow quran) have NO loyalty to ANY country. Their only loyalty is to Arab Allah and spread of their cult (in Iran, US, Canada, UK,...). There is no love of country in Islam, there is only blind obedience to Quran and child-molesting Mohamad. That is why some moslems (US, UK,..)are born and live in the civilized world and then they pick up bombs and kill "their own countrymen" for Allah. They constantly complain about how bad their new adapted country (in West) is. Why don't these people go back to the miserable Moslem countries that they escaped from and live under Sharia and Ayatollahs?!

Soosan, Soosan

Calm down.  I'm not suggesting a dress code, just liberation for women.

And I notice that you didn't bother to inform us if you wear traditional Persian garb since you suggest that I should wear traditional Native Canadian garb.

People evolve, or at least some of us do, and I don't believe in either practicing or accepting the subjugation of women by men, which hijab is a prime example of.

What is VF?

Seriously John, Seriously?

So, are you suggesting Canada should have dress code just like IRI? And then, who are more fragile than women to beat the hell out for their dress choices, with or without scarf?

Men like you make me sick. You are as ignorant as Talibans .  You just follow different school of thought.  Same mentality !!!

Why don't you run for the VF position in Camada to run it like IRI?   

I support a woman's choice of observing hejab or not. I respect all of them. A concept that apparently is too hard for you to comprehend. Don't waste your time arguing with me save your energy for that VF position in Canada. 

You're uninformed Soosan

I was born in Canada and I assumed the clothing and culture of the land that I was born into.  When I visit Iran in the near future I will adopt the clothing and cultural standards of that country also.  In Iran I will be wearing long pants and not holding hands with my girlfriend when we walk through the streets, because that is what will be expected of me when I am a guest in that country.  I won't however, wear a turban and grow a beard, as was done by the original Persians.

You apparently would have me wear traditional Native Canadian dress, even though no Native Canadian himself/herself does so these days.  Do you wear traditional Persian garb when you visit Iran?  If not, then you are a flaming hypocrite, just like the Iranian immigrant to Canada who probably left Iran at least in part to escape the patriarchal society, yet who voluntarily perpetuates its abuses by wearing hijab in Canada.

Since 92 and she still has thick accent?

From her looks she is around 35, being in Canada since 92 means she was around 15, hasn't she learn Canadian dialect by now? It means she was kept outside by her parents and then married to someone like themselves.

I think it is positive that she is active and communicates with the rest of the world. Also think that by removing hijab she would alienate with the rest of her family.

This is not only in Muslim tradition, seeing ultra orthodox Jews and you see them also behaving the same. Their women cannot show hair so they put on a wig and if they give up the tradition they are thrown out of community.

Ohh and regarding hijab, if Canadians forced people how to dress, wouldn't it be yet another Iran. 

.

........Uh poor John is now gangbanged............I still remember the small talk that I had here with him about Sharia Law, a couple of years back.......One thing is for sure..........no matter how Canada was taken from its "first nation", it was "built" into whatever it is now, based on Western and Christian outlooks.....New immigrants go to Canada for its Western values, not for its Eskimo igloos......In my opinion, John, among many other Westerners, has legitimate concerns about the erosion of the social fabric within which he grew up............No doubt.............

John your country Canada was not your country to begin with.

You also came to it wearing British clothings..

So please before your brilliant brain comes up with yet another quotable words of wisdom, could  you please see if you still are wearing it or the native Canadians made you took it off? 

Would, or should CA or the US

Openly welcome new immigrants who proudly wear swastikas on their clothing?

John: So that I understand your point of view...

These people are welcomed in their new home, CA in this case, as long as they don’t live freely and their own choosing  based on what law of land afford them?

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

John

I salute you for standing for values. 

If she wants to wear a hijab then she should be living in an islamic country, and not Canada, or the US, or any non-muslim nation.

Another two cents from me

My belief is that people who choose to leave their country for whatever reason, and I'm in awe of the bravery of people who do that, should leave their political and cultural baggage in their country of origin.  That would avoid things that I've seen in Montreal such as Israelis holding demonstrations against Palestinians, and Palestinians demonstrating outside of the Israeli consulate.  Also burkha-wearing tent-women parading down the streets five paces behind their men.

And my 2 cents....

Not so "free country" if one can not dress as she chooses to, within the limits of law, is it?

As for the art/content of the video itself, I guess I don't get it, perhaps because I am not an artist.  Eitherway, not my cup of tea for an art.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

My 2 cents

No offense to anyone's beliefs, but in my opinion my country (Canada) should refuse immigration applicants who will come to this free country and continue to wear hijab.