Arts & Culture

Cyrous-which Azeri do you want to learn in?

I think it is you who needs a reality check. 

First of all what part of the word "dialect" do you not understand? Dialect is not the same as language.

When you say,"  the issue is Azeris and other minorities not being able to have the right to be educated in their mother tongue"  which Azeri dialect are you referring to? Are you referring to Afshari Azeri?, Khorasani Azeri?, Aynulla Azeri? Qasgai Azeri or Turkeman Azeri? Which variation of Azeri should be used to deliver education or do you propose that each region deliver education in the Azeri of their choice, printing different textbooks and materials to teach maths and physics? How would an Armenian or  Kurd in Tabriz also be allowed to exercise his right to speak his own language? Would exclusive  educational provisons be made for him? How would an Azeri child who has been schooled in their own "mother tongue" be able to relate or communicate between other Iranians of different cities if they had to migrate or seek employment elsewhere in the country? They will be fluent in their own dialect first and speak Persian as if it were an afterthought. The same applies to other Iranians such as Lors and Baluchs. 

According to the late Great Ahmad Kasravi the original language of Azarbaijan (or Azarpadegan as it should be properly called) was similar to Middle Persian. It was not until the invasion of Chengiz Khan Iran that Turkish dialect gradually corrrupted the Persian language. There is ample evidence that Turkish words were not even in existence in Azarbaijan up to the 8th century AD. 

The Republic of Azarbaijan consists of Russianns, Iranians, Assyrians, Tartars, Turkish, Uzbeks  and Kyrgyzstanis? Guess how many official languages it has? One. Azarbaijani. Every single state surrounding Iran from Uzbekistan to Turmanistan have one official state language but only Iran is censured for not being pluralistic enough. 

You are not telling the truth about the association of Azeri separatists and Turkey. They are not completely different entities and some groups have called for the unification of all Turkish peoples. Although Azarbaijan is a seprate sovereign state within its own right its flag is identical to that of Turkey.

Formal education will be delivered in Persian (not ugly Farsi) and Azeri, if you wish to speak and write in it, will be part of afterschool activities and be done so in your own home.

This is Iran. Persian culture came first in Azarbaijan before it was invaded by a crypto-Chinese race. Do not forget that please.  

There is a two word solution to this issue:

Federal System.

Divide and Rule!!

I wonder why British resists against even vote for future indipendency of Scotland but show themselves so kin on other countries`s affairs. We have seen too much of BBC crocodile tears!!

If you travel to Alsace in France, you can see that the children have been baned to talk in their local language which is mixture of German and French. This is now the language of old generation in Alsace. Because they belive that there must be one language in France!! So why they are now so interested in Iranian businesses? It is our business and we know what to do! 

I am Azari and have no problem. I know myself first Iranian and second Azari. We always were/will be united.

Long Live IRAN for EVER.

@ Simorgh5555

You go on and on fantasizing about how a new linguistic reformation and a pure Persian language revival could and should come into fruition (which belongs on a seperate thread) and less emphasis into the main point.

"if you keep on about Azari Turks being given a raw deal then
comparisons between them and the way in which minorities in Turkey are
being treated is inevitable"

I haven't kept going on about anything on this thread (yet), firstly its not some vague generic going on about Azeri Turks getting a 'raw deal' the issue is Azeris and other minorities not being able to have the right to be educated in their mother tongue. Now jumping to Turkey rather than staying within the context of Iran is maybe an inevitability for yourself but otherwise ludicrious. The Armenian Genocide took place outside of Iran and happened before Turkey as we know it today even existed, it was the Ottoman empire. Regardless of what Turkey is or was again that has nothing to do with the Iranian Azeri peoples from Astara to Khoy ot Mianeh. What cultural identity rights the Kurds of Turkey have been denied again has nothing to do with Iran and its certainly not the fault of the masses of the Azerbaijani region in Iran.

To further amplify the point (no matter how tedious and unnecessary for many) Iran under the Safavi dynasty from Azerbaijan was at war with the Ottoman empire. Iranian Azeris speak Azerbaijani Turkic, Turks of Turkey speak Turkish or the Turkic language of Turkey if you will. Iranian Azeris are Shia Muslims (in name if nothing else) Turks of Turkey are largely Sunni Muslims (in name if nothing else). Its two different identities hence these are different peoples historically and in contemporary times. Please don't eqaute the Azeri people with the Turkish people's previous regime's sins (or their current regime's sins for that matter). 

European (Ashkenazi) Jews spoke Yiddish a germanic language due to geography. Those who chose to move to the 20th century created state of Israel were moving to a country founded on ethno-religious nationalism where a revivial of the Hebrew language was being practised to help cultivate and solidify Zionism. Comparing Yiddish speakers adopting Hebrew to Iranians hyperthetically going from speaking contemporary Persian (ugly Farsi) to Middle Persian is another mismatched comparison.  

@Simorgh you are not right

first of all Hebrew had been a dead language for many hundred maybe thousand years, that has now been artificially made alive, because of that it lacks many modern words, so they borrow words from Arabic. Since it has been dead people are not sure about melody and pronounciations either so if unsure they mimic Arabic.

A language that is alive and used changes every day. It absorbs words from its surroundings and Persian is like english a mix of languages really than a single language. It could be cleaned up a little by removing unnecessary words like, baad , ghabl, but for many words there are no equivalent.

Also you thinking Persian is an ugky language is not important at all, it is what Persian speaking people think in general that is important. If we are going to change language because of someones liking then we have to have 70 million languages in iran. 

Cyrous

Precisely, 'Mersi' should be removed and replaced with Sepasgozar.
All Arabic, Turkish idioms must be removed from Persian in an endeavour to replace it with a linguisitc middle similar to that of Middle Persian as possible. It can be done and there are Peesian equivalents for almost every single Arabic words.
Paradoxically, I am not opposed to Azari, Lor, Kurdish or even Arabic being spoken to by minorities provided Persians exercise the same right of speaking a pure language of our own. You can speak Azari at home but should your formal education be delivered in an Azari language drawing a wedge between you and other Iranians and creating a sub-identity among Iranians. Acknowledging our regional differences is acceptable to a point. I am an ethnic minority living in Britain but my formal education is in English and my environment, culture and customs are anglo-saxon. I have no right to demand special privileges, schools or signposts to br written in Farsi.
I observe my heritage and culture in private.
And yes, if you keep on about Azari Turks being given a raw deal then comparisons between them and the way in which minorities in Turkey are being treated is inevitable.
Why Persian and not ugly Farsi? Because one day I was casually listening to a conversation in Arabic and was surprised about how much of the language I had inadvertently understood. The Islamic Republic has introduced so many new Arabic words into Persian that we take it for granted that they are Iranian. Our own ignorance blinds us to the fact that Persian and not ugly Farsi (written with an 'F' because Arabs can't pronounce the letter 'p') is so rich and capable of being used as a modern language. I am still learning it and by no means am I an expert.
Iranians who speak Farsi are like Jews who speak Yiddish or Ladino- a corruption of Hebrew and other Germanic and European languages. Hopefully, like the State of Israel the new generation of Iranians will speak Persian like Israeli children today who speak Hebrew better than than ther parents. This can happen when the IR is overthrown and replaced with an Iranian national government reepecting the diversity of its people but its territorial sovereignty unquestioned.
Farsi should be confined to lovers of literature and books of Hafiz and Saadi will be translated into Persian. Hopefully, this ugly language called Farsi will be dumped into the dustbin of history and renewed with a pure Persian language. I rather speak Azari Turkish than ugly Farsi.

@ Simorgh5555

First of all Azerbaijani is a recognized language hence its the official language of the Republic of Azerbaijan, second of all when you say "you Turks" then go on to mention "the evil genocide your kins and clans did to Armeneians" are you genuinly serious? You want the people of Tabriz, Maraghe, Urūmiyeh, Ardabil etc to bear the guilt and respnosibilty of acts committed by the Ottoman administration more or less a hundred years ago. This is some of the most preposterous stuff I've heard in a long time.

You want to make light of what happened to Armenians in the Ottoman teritories (which is not even part of Iranian history) in an absurd attempt to discredit Azeris desires to be educated in Azeri, yet why is it I rarely see Iranian bloggers of your nature even acknoledge how Azerbaijanis were murdered and made refugees by the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh. Isn't this closer to Iranian matters as Azerbaijanis from the Republic of Azerbaijan are Shia Muslims in name due to the same history as Iranians and celebrate Norouz due to the same history as Iranians.

For Azeris living in the Azerbaijan region of Iran (citizens of Iran), their mother tongue is Azeri Turkic not Persian (I don't think you understand the definition of mother tongue) whilst holding allegience to Iran not Turkey or Turkmenistan or anywhere else.

P.s corrupt language called Farsi? Is saying merci for thank you a form of linguistic corruption or does it get a pass becuase it comes from a European language? Is it only the words that come from Arabic? 

Simorgh what time period do you live in?

You think we are living in preislamic time now? Even at those times there were much more languages than Pahlavi which is actually a Parthian language and not from the Persian tribe.

People in Iran have different mother tounges and have to be respected, Azari is one of them, it is our obligation as human beings to respect our countrymen and treat people equal. Azari is a Turkic language just like uzbeki or turkish in turkey.

Do you know also that English that we use here is the most "corrupted" language as you have put it? It has the highest number of loanwords. 

How about speaking your daddy tongue?

a basic right too : )   Nations need one national language, a primary language taught at school for comprehension, communication, connectivity and the freedom to learn and use any other language anywhere they wish outside school. The model works in many places.

Savalan

By your own admission Azari Turks are a minority and since when were minorities able to enforce their own cultures on the majority population. Furthermore, you even admit that Turks speak a dialect similar to that of Turks of Azarbaijan but a dialect is not a language and therefore how can it be granted official status alongside Farsi?
Once you Turks start behaving like a paragon of virtue and respect other minorities such as Kurds and acknowledging the evil genocide your kins and clans did to Armneians then other people may take a lead from your example.
No one is stopping you from speaking Azari but you must accept that you are an Iranian citizen and that your mother tongue is Persian and not Turkish. Your allegience must be to Iran and not to Turkey. By Persian, I mean Pahlavi and Middle Persian not the corrupt language called Farsi.

Savalan, are only "fars" to blame?

Many people in many areas in Iran speak their own language, it seems obvious that when you talk here you just bring up the plight of the Azari minority and is not interested in about any other minority, although Kurds or Baluchis plight is much much more. Have you ever marched together with Kurds or Baluchis for their right? How do the  Azaris think about Kurds in the Urmia or other part of what they call greater Azerbaijan?

Talking about Persian chauvinism and blaming and pointing to others for problem that we all share is something that is not going to solve anything. "Az mast ke bar mast", if you want to change something you need to unite people and not divide. We need to be educated in school of democracy. You know it better than me Turk or Fars both need that.

A very good example Kurds in Iraq have now power within their border, but has it fixed their problems? Many times news from there is about repression of
women and minorities and people dead when holding protests. Some Kurds from Europe take their females to forcefully marry a cousinor killing them in honor killing. I acknowledge though that it is their right to rule over themselves,but doing that does not automatically solve main problem.

Another observation I have had of many of the tough "Persian chauvinism" fans is that many have not been so much around in Iran or have connections there and when thinking about "fars" they think about Tehran funny enough. Tehran that is a mixture of all Iran and has a very big Azari population.

They might have gone to Isfahan or Shiraz or Mashad but never thought about them as fars as say "Tehranis", although they hold more Fars.

I have the flu and home today nothing to do that is why I am writing so much forgive me for that.

Farsification

Persian is a colonial language.

The measures taken with respect to the Turks in Iran aimed for nothing less than the death of the Turkish language, the erasing of Turkish culture, and the eradication of all traces of Turkish difference. After recasting Turks as lapsed Persians, policies of Farsification (re-farsification?) could then be seen as returning subjects to their pure, unalientated essence. While the assimilation policies in North America at least permitted the nostalgic image of the “vanishing Indian,” the discourses of Pan Iranist suggested that Turks had never really existed at all.

for FARSI

Press 1

jj

Basic rights are personal.

promoting is one thing

shoving it is another.

Iran is for all Iranian with multiple Idioms

And FARSI for all to communicate with one another .

Maziar

Persian language is a uniting factor.

I know more local Iranian languages in comparison to many other Iranians.  Before going to elementary school at the age of 6, I knew nothing but Azeri, Luri, and Gilaki.  Persian was important to learn to be able to communicate with other Iranians who were not Azeri, Lur or Gilak.  One family member who lived in Tabriz did not bother to learn Persian and until she died at the age of 91, she only communicated in Azeri.

There are minorities in other countries who in some states for example, California and New Mexico are majority but they learn English instead of their mother tongue. 

Persian language similar to Nowruz is a uniting factor among Iranians.  

BBC uses "The Gulf" instead of Persian Gulf or when they report in Arab countries, BBC calls it Arabian Gulf. 

BBC has NO business to report on this subject.

International Mother Language Day

On the eve of the International Mother Language Day, Iranian Azerbaijani civil rights activists, as well as students and journalists, face increasing intimidation and harassment by Iranian authorities. The advocates for human rights of the Azerbaijani population in Iran are under growing pressure as the Iranian regime initiates a new wave of arrests against Azerbaijani activists.

Ibrahim Rashidi, Ruzbeh Saatati, Afshin Shahbazi, Mehrdad Karami, Muhammad Ahmadi, are among those arrested recently.

International Mother Language Day is an observance held annually on the 21st of February worldwide to promote awareness of linguistic and cultural diversity and multilingualism. It was first announced by UNESCO on the 17th of November 1999. Azerbaijanis and other ethnic minorities, Arabs, Kurds, Baluchis, Turkmen and others, have been celebrating this day to bring light to the multicultural and multilingual nature of Iranian society and protest the monolingual education system of Iran. The only language of instruction in the education system is Persian / Farsi so far as non-Persian languages are prohibited in national institutions including schools.

Non-Persian Iranians are forbidden to assemble during International Mother Language Day. During the Mother Language Day in February 2007, hundreds of protesters were arrested during peaceful rallies aimed at promoting Azerbaijani-Turkish language in struction in grade schools.

The Azerbaijani population of Iran is the largest linguistic minority group in Iran, comprisingan estimated 25-35% of the total population of the country. They resideprimarily in the North and Northwest of Iran, although a significant number of communities are scattered through out the country. Azerbaijanis speak a dialect of Turkish, closely related to the Azerbaijani-Turkish spoken in the Republic of Azerbaijan. Along with other minorities in Iran, Azerbaijanis are subjected to racism and cultural, linguistic and economic discrimination.

The Association for Defence of Azerbaijani Political Prisoners in Iran, ADAPP, calls on the Iranian government to allow education in Azerbaijani-Turkish, as well as other non-Persian languages, in Iranian schools, to release all prisoners of conscience who have been unlawfully arrested for advocating for Azerbaijani linguistic and cultural rights, and to allow uninterrupted peaceful assembly of Azerbaijanis, demonstrating in favour of linguistic and cultural rights as guaranteed by Article 27 of the Iranian Constitution.

ADAPP believes that a practical recognition of non-Persian cultures and languages in Iran and a respect for the multicultural nature of Iranian society is an essential development, not only for non-Persian communities, but also for the Persian people and the entire country.

Association for Defence of Azerbaijani Political Prisoners in Iran (ADAPP)

Fakhteh Luna Zamani

Executive Director

Vancouver, Canada

For furtherinformation, please contact:

E: info.adapp@gmail.com

Website://www.adapp.info

BBC=Hypoccracy!!!

India is a nation that was known to Iranians as "haftado do melat=seventy two nations" The english invaders took over and created a situation obviously on purpose to devide Indians and emphisise in their differences more than what is common between them! the most clear example is Pakistan and India that are effectively in a war state with each other.

The result of this policy of devide and rule is 1.3 billion people that speak in many different languages but they all agreed to borrow a language and make that their own nationa language. this naguage was not in use by any other nation and it is by no means what we call "mother tongue" pretty much no one speak english to their kids in India unless they go to school!

This is a report to feed the seperatists and agind to emphisise on differences and not what keep close!

BBC is a propaganda machine!

We Iranians in general have

We Iranians in general have hard time to become recieptive of democracy and human rights, unlike the Westerners.  Western actors actresses, writers, poets, sportmen, clergy, and intelectuals are active on so many causes that involve the manority rights and other cuases.  I rarely have seen a Persian actor or actress, or sportman, writer , poet or thinker to express a humane opinion about Iranian manority rights.  Why are we like this?  It seems to me that the fascisim is in our blood. In few minutes, I know that every Iranian will become a specialist in languistics and a judge and an excutioner.  Jahanshah Javid's humane and logical opinion has alot to do with fact that he is half Iranian, otherwise rarely  Iranian parents teach their kids this kind of decency.

I fully support JJ's view on this

As someone who is 50% Fars, 25% Kurd, 25% Azari, but most importantly 100% Iranian, I want Iran to say united as a country, which it has done for nearly 3000 years.

I'm totally and vehemently against any separatism of even an inch of Iran's soil. Of course Iran, like all other countries needs a single national language.

But all that said, I also fully support the teaching and learning of Iran's various ethnic languages. Iran's ethnic languages should be part of schools' curriculum so students should at the very least have the option of studying and learning different langauges, if they wish to.

Furthermore, I fully support the celebration and promotion of all of our diverse ethnic culctures. They add richness, vitality and strength to Iran as country. People who are free to practice their cultures in a country are more likely to love that country. The worst thing we can do is suppress people and prevent them from being in touch with their ethnic identities. This can only result in them becoming alienated from Iran.

I've said this before, Turkish/Azari, Kurdish, Gilaki, Ghashghaai, Lori, Balouchi, Fars, Turkoman, Arab, Armenian, Ashuri, Ilami, Kalimi, Bandari hamvatans etc are all parts of our heritage. It is part of the mix that makes Iran unique, makes us who we are and gives us our national identity and I'm proud of them.  They all belong to Iran and Iran belongs to them.

The issue is one thing

And BBC reporting on it is another.

.

I found my answer.

Democracy

To those who say if we give the minorities this right they would split, then why do you are against the regime, since their theori is the same, if we give the people their rights then we lose power they say. If you do accept democracy it is not always your rights, it is many times others rights.

I do not fully agree with the arab countryman in beginning, we in diaspora know very well that children learn new language very quick. They just need to be in both evironments. Children can pick up 2-3 languages simultanously.

The problem is that in Iran nothing is well planned or thought. They put all the burden on the parents and the kids. 

basic rights

speaking your mother tongue, learning your language of birth, promoting your native culture... are basic rights. demanding them is a natural, legitimate desire, not a sign of separatism -- DENYING them will breed separatism.