IRAN

Re: Anonymous8

What he gave to and did for Iran, more than make up for your requirement that he should have driven a taxi.

Or as they say in Iran, "nooshe joonesh".

Jamshid, LOL, shah had "personal" assets?

I was unaware of the fact that Reza Pahlavi was driving taxis in Tehran "earning" his "personal assets" while he was the emperor! Exactly WHAT assets did rightfully belong to the Pahlavis ?

His entire fortune belongs to Iran.

Re: KouroshS

"your loyalty to the pahlavi regime..."

I ciriticize the old regime when it's due, and I also credit it when it's due. Does that make me loyal to a Pahlavi regime that doesn't even exists today? Perhaps in your closed-minded views, yes, it does.

"You do not have the right to Literally and intetionally use name-calling tactics, just because other people don't support your views..."

I expressed my opinion. Do you believe in supressing people's opinion? It seems that you yourself are the one that cannot handle people who don't support your views. In some places, they call this hypocrisy.

"... Pahlavis were well within their right to take away as they pleased?"

No, I believe that not them nor anyone else is entitled to take away as pleased. However, the Pahlavis did not take away as they pleased. 30 years has passed, and the IRI despite having access to all records, still can't produce a shred of evidence that the Pahlavis stole the "billions" of dollars you and others falsely claim.

By the way, they could have taken the crown jewels, but they didn't. Ask yourself why? Of course we know all well how those jewels were later looted by the mollahs. Is that the Pahlavis' fault too?

Where is your evidence for the words "as they pleased"? Your only evidence is the false rumors they fed you and me and everyone else. You have nothing beyond those fabricated rumors.

"So now WE are the stupid ones who destroyed iran while it was the Big daddy himself who got the hell out, and ALLOWED the country to get ruined"

Yes, those intellecutals did contribute to the destruction of Iran. However, I couldn't agree with you more on the fact that the incompetent shah just left and allowed the country to get ruined.

"NOt to mention transferring his entire assets and possessions waaaaaaaaay before all of this had taken place"

Isn't it anyone's right to transfer their assets to wherever it pleases them? You are saying they should have lived in proverty while in exile, only so that a few people's oghdeh is satisfied. Sorry pal, but it doesn't work that way.

"Using terms such as "valinemat" and "namak nashnas" and "stupid" that you use in a very very demeaning and condescending manner, diminishesyour credibility and validity of your support to an unimagineable extent."

But aren't those words stating the truth? Why do you find them so offensive? By the way, I have used those words to describe my own "stupidity" 30 years ago as well.

Jamsheed. You are welcome to

Jamsheed.

You are welcome to have your loyalty to the pahlavi regime and Live with it for the rest of your life. But You do not have the right to Literally and intetionally use name-calling tactics, just because other people don't support your views. You sound more like a blind follower of a master , a dedicated servant who would do anything to defend his master..

Why are you Justifying the fact that, because
thievery and plundering of a nations wealth is so customery around the world and all those in the position of power would do that, Pahlavis were well within their right to take away as they pleased? does that make it any less of a crime?

Have you forgotten already that a great percentage of those same intellectuals were tied directly to none other thanthe pahlavi organization and , who WERE THE FIRST GROUP to run for the safety of the west? So now WE are the stupid ones who destroyed iran while it was the Big daddy himself who got the hell out, and ALLOWED the country to get ruined
and left us behind when he saw that hava was so pas?
NOt to mention transferring his entire assets and possessions waaaaaaaaay before all of this had taken place.
Using terms such as "valinemat" and "namak nashnas" and "stupid" that you use in a very very demeaning and condescending manner, diminishesyour credibility and validity of your support to an unimagineable extent.
AS i said, Just like a loyal butler (sorry but i could not find a better word. actually, there are none)
bahas bebakshid.

Ispahan

Ispahan is one of beautiful cities of Iran Nat Islamic cities. [milanis vidio]

Jamshid...

the resident shark lawyer for a backward Monarchist regime... here to viciously defend that which has been rejected by the Iranian people. You're arguing with pictures?

Why can't you just let go? It's over dude!

Think- nat the poss of tinkin

Payandeh Iran Javid Shahanshahi Iran root of Civilisation that we no today-Ab dar koozeh ma gardeh jahan Sargardan!!

Irandokht

"Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards".

You can always look back on things in your life and say, "I could've done this better, and I could've done that better".  Thats just how it is.  The only thing you can do is look back at the circumstances of the situation and the time, and try not to repeat the same mistakes you made before.  

If you ever read the Shah's book "An Answer to History", he explains and truthfully acknowledges many of the mistakes he made as king.  He esplains that he should not have surrounded himself with people that were unconditionally loyal to him and wouldn't tell him if he was doing something wrong, in the end, he realized he alienated many of his countrymen. 

He also explains that he shouldn't have tried to modernize so fast, because many people ended up being left behind, and suffered poverty.  

With all of his flaws, I still think that him and his father were the two best Kings to ever set foot on Iranian soil.  They did the most for Iran, they brought it into its golden age.  

The problem is most Iranians still believe all of that stupid baseless, factless propaganda that the west spread about him because he raised oil prices.  Take a look at our neighboring countries and their regimes, and appreciate what we had.

Jamshid jan

I never said they didn't do any good, I was only saying that Shah could have done better, he could have heard the people a little sooner before all hell broke loose, he could have made it, if his reign was not one totalitarian dictatorship the last 2 decades...

Would you also accept that there were a lot of flaws that did not need to exist? Would you not agree that there was poverty that was not addressed? would you agree that there were politcal prisoners who did not need to be persecuted? 

Granted the conditions after 1980 were a lot worse and they still continue to be, would you at least accept that the Shah could have prevented this chaos by having paid more attention to the realities of the times?

My take on the "free snacks" for the children is not all negative, I am just saying it was not enough and it should not be weighing more than the negative aspects of the society at the time. It just doesn't make up for it.  

IRANdokht

Re: Irandokht

Dear Irandokht, your views are impossible. You are now complaining that taghzieh raayegaan was given to those who didn't need it! So do you mean that it was a bad thing? And also, wasn't it given to those that needed is as well? Or are you saying that all of the 10 millions of so school students were rich?

And if it wasn't given to the rich, then how would it feel to give it to some and not to the others in the same classroom? Would that be workable?

You want to take something like taghzieh raayegan and make even that look like it was wrong or was done wrong, and so on.

Be fair Irandokth. Admit that the Pahlavis, including the second one, did a lot of good for our country and give them credit when it is due.

Re: Azam Nemati

"Thank you for the collection of pictures, which reminds the world of the surreal paradox of Iran during the Crown Cannibal’s regime."

I couldn't agree with you more Azam. It really does reminds the world of the crown Cannibal regime of Ghajars. It also shows the world how much the Pahlavi changed that.

"You do not have to be Einstein to see the poor living in such dire situations..."

I bet you are one of those who had nothing to do with the poor. As you admitted, you were a member of the middle class that the Pahlavi, your valinemat, created in the first place.

It reminds me of those intellecutals who tear their shirt for the poor, but when the moment of truth and testing comes, they don't give a damn about the poor, instead they run for the safety of the West, of course after the poor is screwed thanks to those same intellectuals' lack of judgement.

As we say in Farsi, baraashoon sineh chaak mikonan, vali hamchin ke baadi biaad, felengo mibandano mizanan be chaak jadeh. Azam, I hope you are not one of them.

"happened to be travel and see for ourselves the disparity of wealth"

It seems that you only traveled in Iran, otherwise, you would have seen the same "disparity of wealth" everywhere else too. Only in Iran, it was to a much lesser degree than in any other third world country.

"for the record, ... I will sign an authorization for Ministry of education to release the information showing that in August 1978 I paid forty-seven thousand Touman (at that time a Touman was equal to $1) to buy back my Hazine Tahsili (education scholarship)... "

It is good to see that you are an honest individual. At least you are admitting that the Pahlavis were helping a namak nashnaas like yourself and many others with scholarships at the tune of $7000. (one toman was not one dollar, 7 toman was.)

Adjusted for inflation, it would be $24,000 in today's dollars, and that's per year.

You Azam and I and many others, destroyed a good country with our stupidity. At least, I admit to it, but it seems that you are still the same ignorant than 30 years ago. The only solution for you is to rid yourself of your deep and ingrained "oghdeh" against the pahlavis and instead look at things from a realistic angle.

Re: Majid

Majid, theiving is not specific to Iran. In all countries, there are those in positions of influence who steal. This includes both Iran and the USA and any other country you name.

Do you have a formula that would stop theft from the people? If so more than 200 countries in the world would like to hear your solution.

Until you come up with that magical solution that no country has been abled to implement in history, then we have no choice but to think about this issue relatively.

So then the question becomes who steals relative to what? Name me one country in which those who are in positions of power don't steal at all.

For example, do you agree that there is more stealing in Mexico than in the US? More in the US than in France?

Do you also agree that there was more stealing during the Ghajars, Safavids and is during the IRI, than during the Pahlavis?

Do you know of anyone else in those days who could create a government that would steal less from the people in Iran? Perhaps land owner Mosadegh? Who else? I'd like to know.

Considering how corrupt the people of Iran themselve were in those days, the Pahlavis were more than we could have bargained for.

javid shah

javid shah

KouroshS While you worry about the War ...

Take the time to ponder on the fellow Iranians being executed and accused of "terrorist activities" or "spying" for Israel in Iran :

Iran Hangs Iranian Convicted Of Spying For Israel

And You can Thank the Iran "Expert" and former CIA Agent Robert Baer for spreading his lies on the Kurdish Rebels calling them Terrorists when they are at worst Freedom Fighters:

//iranian.com/main/singlepage/2008/secret-war-iran

I denounced this Report a few weeks ago for its fallacious distortions that no one seemed to even notice this media manipulation and fall for the crocodile tears of Mr. Baer.

Well Mr. Baer Should Now be VERY SATISFIED by the following arrests too:

See latest report by IRNA Using the Word "Terrorist" to justify their arrest

Terrorist group arrested in border areas

Tehran, Nov 22, IRNA - Iran's intelligence forces have arrested a four-member terrorist group at borders with the Iraqi Kurdistan province, in western Iran, an official at the Information Ministry said on Saturday.

The counter-espionage director of the ministry told reporters that the group was arrested with Israeli made weapons and was to assassinate a number of Iranians.

They were arrested at border before finding a chance to make any action, the official added.

THIS HAS BEEN A RECURRENT TACTIC OF THE IRI TO USE FOREIGN THREAT AS AN EXCUSE TO BASH OPPOSITION INSIDE AND OUTSIDE IRAN

That is how they  justified the massacres of 1988 and the killings of key figures of the Iranian Opposition from Bakhtiar to the Forouhars and Farrokhzad to the arrest of Amir Entezam.

Now the Risk of WAR has become their pretext and they are VERY GOOD AT DISTRACTING IRANIANS WITH THEIR LIES AND MANIPULATIONS

I have said before and say today, that I share Abbas Milani's stance on Iran. This Murderous Regime is Good in Surviving at the expense of Iranians at large who are suffering and dieing in its hands.  

BEING SIMPLY NEUTRAL ABOUT THE IRI AND ITS METHODS AND MANIPULATIONS IS NO SOLUTION !

IRAN HARGUEZ NAKHAHAD MORD ! -Shahpour Bakhtiar

LONG LIVE IRAN

My Humble Opinion too as well as my final say on this issue with YOU.

Best,

DK

LOng Live Jesus:)

Dear princess

Contrary to what you may think, i am not new to the IC. I have been reading their materials, Just as long as you have :) I am also familiar with these types of arguments. You see them on all threads and all over the internet. I don't

Really care whoes side Mr. Kadivar is or Ms. nemati is on. I am not here to enjoy seeing people's mud-slinging and dragging each other through dirt.
I don't see anything wrong with Ms. nematii said. She stated what she thinks to be true, just as you or anyone else for that matter do.
She calls shah "crown cannibal", as she has for as long as i can recall. That is Her choice. DK does not like it? That is just too bad. You know? Of course there is history behind this and There always be discussions like this on this thread.

It does not matter how tired and sad you are, princess jan. YOu just don't come out and say, You know what people? You deserve having your country bombarded, You are not smart and intelligent, why? because you are dumb enough to not fully appreciate what shah did for you and base his assertion on that.

I don't know Dk and the "other" lady, but if i may say this, what you are doing is so wrong in comparing their level of progress on such matters. I am sure that each one of them has grown in their own ways. Support or lack there of, of Pahlavis doesn't necessarily mean that one person is forward-minded and the other is not:)

Thank You News Goffer and Princess

Thank you and truly appreciate your support and understanding.

Have a nice weekend, and Bonne Nuit From Paris

D

Kourosh jan,

I am on the other side of the Atlantic, so it was actually early morning here when I wrote my previous comment.

OK, I think I understand your  comment a little better now that I realise you are relatively new to IC. Please let me to explain something.

You see, although I have only recently begun to leave comments on this site, I have been an IC reader for the better part of ten years now. I and probably most of the long-time readers are rather familiar with most of these "arguments" and the people who voice them. That is where our frustration comes in. That is also why Ali P. wrote what he wrote in his first comment, and the reason why Mr Kadivar reacted to Nemati’s comment the way he did. There is a long history behind these. And knowing that history, I did not take Mr Kadivar’s comment the way you did. To me he just sounded tired and sad – and frankly, rightly so.

I have to say that throughout the years, despite often disagreeing with his point of view on the Pahlavis, I have witnessed Mr Kadivar grow and evolve in a very tangible way, unlike the "lady" he was addressing in his post, who seems to be going backwards.

I don't always disagree with Mr. Kadivar, but by know he has gained my respect. I believe he is a good and couragous man and I am convinced that he has the best interest of Iran and the Iranians at heart, just as I think you and I as well as many other people on this site do.

Anyway, that was my “two cents” and my last comment on this thread.

Cheers!

PS. and if you want to learn the facts about the '53 coup, read Kinzer's All The Shah's Men.

Dear Darius

You are one of my most favorite debaters on Iranian.com. Your style, your consistency, and your passion make your writings interesting and worth reading, even if I may disagree with your point. I have learned much from you on how to stay with the subject and how to give one's best to the argument. I know you get beaten up a lot, but I appreciate your stamina for staying in the discussion. You are a pro and a pure pleasure to read. I just had to say this--thank you.

KouroshS

You are free to hate my articles its your choice.

As for what I wrote I would write it again exactly the way I wrote it. You simply did not get my point.

I was not angry at comments made against the Pahlavi's but comments such as "Crowned Cannible" and the lack of genuine and sustainable critics regarding nearly 50 years of our national and collective history. It is this type of mentality that has prevailed in our country for more than 30 years due to Islamic Fundamentalist Propaganda. That does not mean an endorsement of the monarchy although I have absolutely no problem defending it in its constitutional form nor its historical importance that has spanned for 25 centuries and greatly defined our culture and identity regardless of the different dynasties that have ruled us.

My concern is with the way such irresponsible comments repeated for more than 3 decades without the slightest objection seems to leave people immune to critical thinking. Today the Islamic Republic has continued this revisionistic work based not on fact but prejudice to another major historical era which does not just concern our country but the World and what shaped it in the 20th century and that is : WWII casualties and the banalization of history by denying the Holocaust and inviting people to Iran who are anything but an authority to speak about this well known and undeniable fact that 6 million jews were gased in the chambers of Aushwits, Dachau and many other concentration camps.

Do you need more proof: Mrs. Michelle Renouf is a well known neo nazi Holocaust denier who is presented as an expert and human Rights activist for GOD's SAKE on OUR NATIONAL IRANIAN TV !

Why doesn't that provoke ANY REACTION amongst You people ?

THIS LACK OF REACTIVITY TOWARDS MANIPULATION is What shocks me today amongst my compatriots more than their legitimate concerns for disposing nuclear technology for peaceful and economic means.

By systematically lying to people and spreading unverified rumours about the past we give up responsability towards the future generations and NO Nation Building is Possible if we do not try and learn about the TRUTH and Least the Historically Verified TRUTH.

Also I have not waited for Obama's election to try and inform or express myself on what I feel is the duty of the Iranian community in supporting the Iranian civil society and democracy and human rights. Just a few examples of the issues where actors or celebrities have tried to act in this constructive way and which I tried to highlight without contrary to what you think take credit for it. They are to be thanked not me !

Banned Hollywood Dream: Iranian actress Golshifteh Farahani troubled over a Body of Lies By Darius KADIVAR

A DIRECTOR'S CUT: Hollywood Director Cyrus Nowrasteh Brings Fereidoune Sahabjam's Best Selling Novel To The Screen by Darius KADIVAR

By George! by Darius KADIVAR

Sean Penn's Last Frontier by Darius KADIVAR

Prisoners Of Conscience Akbar Ganji A Hero Similar To Yves Montand Portrayal In Costa Gavras' Film « The Confession » by Darius KADIVAR

Iranian Diaspora Intelligentsia Unite Against Islamic Republic's Holocaust Revisionism by Darius

BINOCHE FEMME DANGEREUSE! By Darius KADIVAR

The Struggle Continues!: Nazanin Afshin Jam's  Stop Child Executions Campaign in Iran and Beyond By Darius KADIVAR

Stoning Bush: Oliver Stone's Bio Epic on US President by Darius KADIVAR

Now if you still think I deserve being called a warmongerer or you think this kind of effort is useless Roozeh Khonee well so be it.

More like Rozeh khooni.

You call them "articles", i call them rozeh khooni.
Yeah, Ok. I let you dream all you want. whatever rocks your boat you big, strong fella.

I did not say that you endorsed it, But you certainly were so rediculously offended by some anti-pahlavi remark, and you chalked that up as unintellectual and so on that basis it is OK , as far as you are concerned, if such a thing were to take place.
You basically said that you guys who come here and make comments against shah, follow such irrational and archaic thought patterns, that makes you look stupid and That iran is an idea! so therefore you couldn't care less if the country's facilities get bombed!!!

What Irony are we talking about here? It is as articulate an statement as you can make.

Merci Ali P. ;0)

Thank You my friend. I know we see EYE TO EYE on many issues.

Have a Wonderful Weekend !

Damn It ;0)

To: GOD DAMN DK !

Faaaaaaaaaantassssssssssssssssssssssssstic clip!!

:-)

Ali P.

KouroshS

Oh I'm flattered that you think I got a fellow compatriot actor out of Iran to work in Hollywood thanks to my articles. I did Not know I was THAT EFFICIENT ! But yes Golshifteh can be grateful to me ;0)

As for your wrong assessment of me endorsing a bombing of Iran, I suppose you have never came across the literary subterfuge called "AN IRONY" ? ...

Learn From my Good Ol' Pal Bill Maher ( who I was said also admires my articles): GOD DAMN AMERICA !

Extremely elegant

... and i really suggest that you keep your suggestion, where no one can reach them.
for your information, i have been looking at the chronology of comments and I KNOW what i read. It is all in Your head. Get over your anger and bias and Just read the comments and take them for what they are. An adult should be able to do that easily. Even if comments were a little out of whack, nobody went so far as to suggest that they would not care if iran's nuclear facilities were to be bombed.

I will learn to read, Just as soon as you started to make some sense.
I don't have the money to get a new pair. why don't you give me half of the royalty you received from getting Golshifteh and others to hollywood?

KouroshS

Spare Me Your Sermons Kid.

Before Jumping to conclusions about me or my thoughts I suggest YOU :

1) to look at the chronology of the posts on this thread and the remarkeable level of courtesy displayed between writers of very different opinions up to Ali P. much welcomed post ONLY to see it demolished by Mrs. Namati's rhetoric which most senior writers on this website are well familiar with her venom. 

2) Learn to Read ...

Otherwise I suggest  YOU  to order a new pair of eye glasses.

Best,

DK

Mammad Reza bayad BARAH

Just to make it clear: ON january 15th 1979 the media reprted: President carter has said it is better when shah goes. the interbnational imperialism wanted toi shou its might over the world. Wanted to emphasize that shah goes on its order. Not because 30 Million Iranians wanted that he goes. His imperial majesty had no other chance. Many many years ago Ayatollah Rohollah Khomaini had allready advised him: You do so much for them - the strangers - but on the day as you would need them they will not help you. The day came his majesty the king needed Help but nobody wanted even to talk to him. If the honorable Iranian masses who poured into the streets demanding the death of american imperialism were hysterical, brainless and gullible or they were reasonable, brave, courageous gutsy bold and daring is a matter of choice. It depends for example on: how deep one loves the Iranian Nation. Anyhow: It is clear that the Islamic republic of Iran was founded by Iranian Nation. Those who left the country in that hard time are only but deserters. On the other hand: They have made use of their free will and of their right to plan and live their lives just as they want. Greeting

It is 3 in the morning...

... and we are still exchanging comments on IC! Princess.
That may very well be the case and it could also be that i am so out of the loop and don't know much about iran's history and all i know is all the stuff i read in my HS books after the revolution.
I give you an example: it happened on a different threat, I think it was the "marg bar shah" thread. I read some amazing details of how the 1953 coup took place, right or wrong, i don't know, but that to me is interesting. Some other guy came along and countered the comment maker on certain points... and i kinda like the dynamics invoved in such exchanges and I feel like i learn from it.

The same thing is happening here as well. Those who are die-hard fans of the pahlavis have some interesting materials to share with the rest of us, and i enjoy reading their debates with those who don't find much to like about them.

I better hit the hay:)

Nighty night everyone.

Kourosh jan,

I know you that’s not what you said. I was being facetious. It’s just that honestly what have you heard here that you haven’t heard nany times before? My point is, most of our friends don't seem to realise that they have been sounding like “broken records” for a while now. That’s just my opinion, but I would love to be proven wrong. 

OH come on Princess

Princess.

I did not say that you had not applied your brain the first time. It is just that i think this is a great source of learning the real truth and so many interesting facts about our history, if we take the time to cut through the tension and score-settling portions of the comments. Filter that out and get a load of the real deal.

And... we certainly CAN DO WITHOUT, Those who don't respect other people's opinion and think what they read is just a heap of Junk. Very Interesting Mr. Khdivar.
It is a SHAME, for you to even think of those words, let alone dare writing them and making sure everyone sees it.

So, You would not give a damn if they decide to bomb our facilities in iran, and destroy the lives of so many innocent people as a consequence, because of what you think our level of intellect has been reduced to, because not all of us worship the shah and his dynasty and dare to find faults with them and critcize them. Wow. what an adequate and credible standard to measure intellect by.

Yet YOU DO one full round of baba karam dance, every time some Jujeh fokoli actor or an actress, with the least amount of talent, find their way to hollywood?

People learn history in so many different ways, including by reading and hearing stories form those who experienced it. We will shape the future of our country precisely by having such productive and informative discussions, by hearing everyone's side, and yes, taking a few swings at each other along the way, but we will get over it and that is how it should be done.

I am sorry that the conversation here is not being conducted according to your Holy book of instructions rules and i think that you will be doing us all a big favor by being a participant, rather than reminding us how shallow and uninformed you think we are.

The second (after Khomeini)

The second (after Khomeini) biggest loser that Iranian history has offered. A string puppet.

Best Regards

B