Ari Siletz

KS: So now all anyone has

KS:

So now all anyone has to do is threaten violence if they are satirized and before long no one will be able to be mocked. Funny that you blame the satirist and not the person threatening to hurt those that use satire.

I really don't wish to continue this conversation. I said my piece and you did as well. I hope freedom of  speech whether mockery or deemed "disrespectful" always wins over bullying and threats by those who try to silence others in the name of some kind of dogma and ideology.

Vildemose

So what? does the fact that No one is Barred from doing that makes it Okay?

There is no valid excuse TO YOU, of doing such a thing, But do you or can you put yourself in that position and declare that they don't know any better? Would You find it exteremely delighted if someone took that same approach towards something you would have deemed as precious, for reasons that others would have thought as darn straight Stupid? I was not even talking about Radical Islam's followers. If you don't care How many muslims out there or what they believe, I can assure you that they reciprocate the sentiment.

Taking a supportive stand for freedom of expression should not have to be accompanied with Disrespecting and mockery.

Anahid Jan

The drawing of Mumammd is not a big thing for Iranians; not the ones that I know. They neither get so mad about it nor participate in making the drawings. You are right: we have bigger problems to fix. Therefore I totally agree with you. Let Europeans go worry about cartoons. We got bigger problems to resolve.

do some of you people live here 24/7?

????

Dear SeanJ & KouroshS

I share your views and it makes me deep sense of comfort and joy to see there are still many Iranians out there with a deeper view and understanding of ethical responsibilities and the value and effect of compassion. tolerance and respect for the deferent beliefs and rights of the universal human body.

 “Bani adam azaye yek degarand” 

 I am personally learning to ignore and not waste my breath on trying to convince, spell out the value of ethics for people that take joy and our proud of acting like ignorant shallow bigots that suffer from ethical handicaps.  These idiots don’t have the capacity to understand that the fundamentalist fanatic terrorist mentality is and are a minority in the Muslim world!   

Like seanj mentions “With every right comes responsibility” and every action has a reaction! Whatever negative energy and bigotry that is thrown out there will eventually come back and haunt its originator tenfold.  

The cartoonist that the Mohammed cartoon just got his ass kicked the other day, Salmon Rushdy had live like a hermit and under police protection for many years in fear of his dear life, if you dress like Hitler on Halloween and walk the streets, chances are you will get your ass kicked!  

Is it so hard to follow a simple and golden ethical universal law?: wish and act upon others as you would like others to wish and act upon you!  

It is easy to hide behind a nick name, be brave and give yourself the right to insult and judge and disrespect other and talk all kinds of nonsense.  

The truth is that the great majority of Iranians are Muslims and will remain to be Muslims even after our soon to come revolution and birth of a new democratic Iran.

The irony is this same group of ignorant bigots that you are encountering on such blogs today will go back to Iran and mix in with the majority like the opportunistic two faced hypocrites that they are.

Even my dog has superior ethics and compassion for humans than these guys lol  Let them be, obviously they have nothing better to do than come and zer zer and start pointless, worthless blogs with no value on IC!  I will no longer respond to such shallow and useless blogs and comments, say want you want and draw what you want, at the end: harchi bekari, derow mikoni.  

JAVABE ABLAHAAN KHAMOSHIEST ;)  Have a great weekend my friends.

Bowing to religious crazies is not the answer

Nobody has to actually tell or dictate to muslim to get offended or not.

Nobody is.

The irony of this all is that Muhammad discouraged the use of his image so they would not idolize him and instead worship god. There is no history, until now, of non-muslims being barred from depicting him, which has been done many times in the past. here and here 

There is no valid excuse for anyone, let alone anyone who has had advantages and education, to embrace an authoritarian and violent ideology like radical Islam.There is no excusing an ideology that aims to impose a medieval theocracy or an ideology that get offended by simple drawings, and I don't care how many muslims are out there.

I also see your side of the argument.  The whole world is on edge right now. Fomenting further hatred in Islamic countries  because of a cartoon is just not worth it.

But I also think taking a stand for  democratic values like freedom of expression maybe just maybe might be "worth" it too. 

Silence is consent.  And when a group celebrates the murder of Van Gogh or advocates the murder of Stone and Parker and cites Islamic law as justification , we never hear any of so-called moderated muslims get "offended" or protest against what's done in their name.

Muslims need to understand that that behavioral restrictions imposed on Islam's followers are irrelevant to the behavioral choices of a diverse society and indeed the global village. They are no more special than other people or other religions. 

Possible motivations for blogging about the contest

2. Promoting intolerance is standard strategy for keeping out ideas that could threaten the status quo. Art is the second biggest threat to a religious status quo (a rival religion being the first) 

3. Mohammad played the intolerance game by ordering the assassination of poets who spoke against him--Khomeini was following tradition in ordering the assassination of the novelist Rushdie. Same with the assassination of the artist Theo Van Gogh.

4. Iranian journalists, writers and artists are jailed and/or tortured and/or harassed in this long tradition of silencing words and images. Maziar Bahari, Bahman Ghobadi, Simin Behbehani are some examples. Their works do not involve racist provocations such as the offensive Mohammad cartoons.

5. As a result, freedom of speech is the foremost issue for the devoted (or non-devoted) Muslims you mention as protesting in Iran against the IRI.

6. The irresponsible use of free speech by the orignal Mohammad cartoons was unfortunate, but the offense to the Muslim community can be well worth it if some of its consequences were used to further the cause of free speech among Muslims.

7. If you can draw, I look forward to seeing your Mohammad portrayal, next year--if this becomes an annual event. Whatever you produce, it will be your individual expression. Some of the sympathetic drawings in the contest were actually nice, but I didn't find any as sophisticated as the three winners above. Hopefully next year.

Seanj

Seanj

When a large part of the Mulsim community is letting you know that they are deeply hurt and offended by such cartoons, how responsible and mature is it for you to start "Mohammad drawing" campaigns on the net??  Sure, you are "free" to do it, but how ethical is it to do it? Iranians have a particular respect for Koroush-e Kabir, how would you feel if people started Koroush drawing contests and depicted him as anything from a terrorist to a pimp, just to hurt the community? how responsible and ethical would that be?

Excellent reasoning and logic and great analogy. I second that.

Vilemose jan

Where do you see the "victimhood" narrative in that statement??

Nobody has to actually tell or dictate to muslim to get offended or not. It is done via these cartoons and other actions taken by some people. Indeed with "mutual respect" of rights becoming the norm Life would get better, But don't you think This thing being done under the Guise or banner of freedom of expression Violates the first rule of the process of creating and forming of  This mutual respect?

I agree with seanj. Although i don't necessarily think this is being done to provoke or create a sense of outrage, it nevertheless is an insult. Like to those whom are deep believers. It really should not be up to us to sit down and analyze their beliefs and determine whether it is all a hoax or not or try to prove to them that based on such and such principles you are so way outta line Grandma or Grand auntie. No.

The same goes with Making fun of Chritians and Jews and other religions. I do appreciate and marvel at the coexistence that i see in this society between Mocking relgious beliefs and respecting serious aspects of it, Yet at the same time i wonder to myself, How could they do that? IS that morally a right thing to do?

Hamsarde ghadimi 1- No,

Hamsarde ghadimi

1- No, it is not "subjective" when the intention behind it is to provoke
people. When I was a child I would walk up to adults around me and call
them "khar", when they got offended, I'd inform them that "khar" also
means "bozorg" like "khar-goosh", "khar-magas" which is not at all an
insult. So, not only I had provoked and disrespected them by calling
them "khar", but had also insulted their intelligence by implying that
"khar" could be a subjective term! These cartoons do the exact same
thing that I did when I was 5. They have nothing to do with "freedom of
expression" or any other contructive contribution to the society. They
simply intentionally insult Muslims and then attempt to give them a
"lesson" about subjectivity in a condescending manner.

2- It doesn't have to be ALL muslims. ALL black people don't get
offended if you call them niggers, some of them even call each other
niggers. But there is a significant part of them who do get deeply
offended by that word. So again, how responsible and constuctive would
it be to keep calling them that? Do you sincerly believe that it will
serve the purpose of "freedom of speech? come on, who are we fooling
here?

3- Pictures of muslims mass protesting Islamic oppression? How about you
take a look at the pictures of mass protests in our own country Iran? A
significant part of the protesters are practicant Muslims. In the
rallies you would find tons of chadori women, families of martyrs and
even clerics among other people. The "leaders" of the green movement are
devoted muslims, some of the greatest names of the women's right
movement like Shirin Ebadi, Shahla Sherkat, Zahra Rahnavard..are devoted
muslims. But you people never recognize their efforts, do you?

to vildemose  With every

to vildemose 

With every right comes responsibility. You can start a radio program like Rush Limbaugh and spread all the hatred you want against any minority group and call it "freedom". But the truth is that you'd be acting like an ignorant biggot who is causing more damage to the foundation of a democratic society than promoting "freedom of speech" in any way. When a large part of the Mulsim community is letting you know that they are deeply hurt and offended by such cartoons, how responsible and mature is it for you to start "Mohammad drawing" campaigns on the net??  Sure, you are "free" to do it, but how ethical is it to do it? Iranians have a particular respect for Koroush-e Kabir, how would you feel if people started Koroush drawing contests and depicted him as anything from a terrorist to a pimp, just to hurt the community? how responsible and ethical would that be?

Rea, yes, certainly Europeans have been of no help

Yes, Rea,, we Iranians, inside and in Diaspora will take care of IRI. Certainly, Europeans have been no help. They have been happy with their telecomm deals in asbsence of US. If anything, many European governments prefer IRI be in power since if a government comes on power which is more friendly to US, guess what? that would mean less business deals  for European companies. So, you go ahead, draw your business contracts and draw some cartoons too. Meanwhile, there are great European citizens that will stand next to us. If you are one of them,more power to you.  However, as an Iranian, I have to tell you that if you want to help Iranians, cartoons will not do and only will inflame the situation.

Anahid H.

Having read "Little Tweet" comment, all I can say is you are absolutely right.

Let us, Europeans, deal with it.  In the meantime, you take care of IRI.

Problem that I have with Mohammad cartoons

I am for freedom of speech but my concern is that this issue of cartoons eats up more resources and does not do any thing for people of Iran. Please note Fooladi's comment. At this time that we have so many issues like political prisoners and next steps of movement, and many other issues, to me it is best to let Europeans worry about drawing Mohammad, Ali, etc. 

sean

i take it that you're not offended by three of the four pictures on this blog since they're not insulting and degrading.  or would that be subjective and some still would get angry at the drawing of a pipe attributed to being prophet mohammad?  where can we draw the line on what is offensive?  whose standard?

secondly, you keep repeating moslems are offended as if all who consider themselves moslems are offended by such depictions.  i think you should speak for those moslems who are offended and not all moslems. 

thirdly, many people who are considered moslems, by those who keep a tally, do not consider themselves moslems.  moslem can be someone who is practicing the faith of islam and can also be a label.  i have such label (when in iran) and certainly don't consider myself one.  if you have contact with people who keep such records, could you tell them they lost one moslem and subtract it from the total.  i know, i'm not giving you my real name; but with such admission, i would certainly risk my life when i go back to iran!

fourthly, since the u.s. media is so bent against the moslems, could you send me some pictures of mass demonstrations (by moslems) against stoning of women, child execution, honor killing, child brides?  i would appreciate it.

Darveesh

Capt, is that you ? :o)

Yes, it was about time they paid for what they've done. Personally, don't care if they call themselves priests, rabbis, mullahs, or whatever.  

Mind you, nothing to do with the blog.

SEANJ So, why is it that you get

seanj:  

So, why is it that you get to tell muslims what they should or should not get offended about?

More victimhood narrative. very typical.

No one is telling muslims not to get offended. Certainly, not me. Get offended as much as you can and as often as you can. But don't expect others to not stand up to your bullying and threats.

Freedom is not something granted to you by authority, but something you assert on a daily basis by your decisions.  You are not free because someone else says you may do this or that, and it does not require that other people refrain from trying to bully or terrorize you.  Life is certainly better, and the rewards of freedom more manifest, when mutual respect of rights is the norm, but how do you think this happens?  It doesn't fall out of the sky.  It results from people choosing not to be dictated to by barbarians.

Cowards are never free.

All due respect to believers

If this drawing in any way diminishes the man of divine essence you believe in, then you gotta problem.

@vildemose, intriguing link. As always. ;o)

@seanj, you seem to equate European racism to one drawing.  Well, you're badly mistaken. Europe got other things, more important, to worry about. Mohammad's (PBUH) drawing being the last of.

To Marjaneh: I am howling now:-)

I do however HOWL now and then. :-)
Sean-Smile-a-Lot

to vildemose

I did not call you names, I said that your arguments are stupid and arrogant. There true reason why you don`t want to reply to my comment is that you are simply incapabale of reasionably refuting my arguments. But that`s ok. I have simply stopped caring about the opinions of those who would go to any length to justify their hate propaganda. You want to insults my beliefs which are a very significant part of my identity and you expect me not to protest or even be offended. This is the most condescending and arrogant approach I have ever been.

to hamsade ghadimi

The problem with Danish cartoons was not just that the Prophet was depicted, but the fact that he was depicted in very insulting and degrading manners. The intention behind the cartoons was clearly to provoke and outrage European Muslims. Creating such controversies and then exploiting the outcome has always been a political strategy of the far-right groups in europe. It is a shame that the Iranian diaspora is always in line with them.

Secondly, a lot of Muslims do protest the crimes committed in the name of their religion. In the U.S there are hundreds of Islamic associations that have taken very clear stands against violent actions by other Muslims. In Iran itself some of the loudest voices against Islamic regime's oppression are Muslims clerics, thinkers, activists and martyr's families. But of course, these are never the things that the media nor the Iranian diaspora so-called "opposition" groups will recognize or even mention.

drawing can only be good

Drawing Moh'd

as a religious offence: non taken

as a political chip: totally for it

Heck, anything that makes the Arabs, larger Sunni populations go at it with the West is good for Iran and Persians.

Let them fight each other to pieces while we "mediate."

Why in my right mind would I want Americans to accept Arabs and Muslims? So Arabs and Muslims can get cozy with the West and the old enemy (Arabs) and new ones (in the West) can unite over Iran?

Anyone who can't understand this mentality is just not Persian.

Vast majority of Iranian people are devout muslims

I love my country Iran, and it's people. Therefore regardless of my own religious or political beliefs, I'd respect my country men/women's religious sensitivities. So, if they get upset about a cartoon about Mohamed, I'd certainly not go about and defend the publication of that Cartoon. As simple as that.

We need to get past these petty arguments, and instead focus on the real single issue affecting our country: This vile IRI of velayate vaghih regime, using people's religious sentiments in order to stay in power for a few more desparate years.

I wonder

I wonder how they would react to us if they knew most of us at one time or another wore a gold "shamayel"and some small businesses have drawings of Ali and Mohammad on their walls...

Red Wine

واویلا به شما خلق یاجوج و ماجوج

واویلا به شما خلق یاجوج و ماجوج !چه شد پس ؟ بالاخره بکشیم یا نکشیم ؟ اگر نکشیم..پس اینجا چکاره ایم ؟ اگر میکشیم، بگذاریم اینجا تا بقیه هم ببینند !

while you are at it clean up your own house first

//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36823196/ns/world_news...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=izBOnZzZe3g&feature...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=izBOnZzZe3g&feature...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pFOlJnqyUQ

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r6f0ZFa8SI&feature...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOyb-pV61zk&feature...

Raoul: thanks. Being

Raoul: thanks. Being attacked comes with the territory. I appreciate your advice and will take you up on it in the future.

To Raoul1955 WHOOOFFF

WHOOOFFF

GGRRRRRRAAAARRRRRRGH

WHOOOFFF WHOOOFFF!

Every fascism is an index of a failed revolution - Walter Benjamin

Atlas Shrug

join while white robes and hoods last