dariushabadi

Racists are either shameless liars or totally delusional

I always get a chuckle from the forceful denials of "I'm not racist" out of these people. They frequently denigrade Arabs. Islam is bad because it's from "Arabs", they use the most exclusionary, eliminationsitst language, ethnic slurs like tazi, and use accusations of being Arab/Arab-love/Arabzadeh as curse words. And then they have the delusional audacity to claim they are not racist. Here are just a few examples:

The Tazi banned all Persian writing. They did not stop at burning one library. They demanded books as jazieh they tried cultural genocide just like the Mullahs and Mr Soroush.

who cares id there are more Suni or Shia. Both sides of the same worthless coin.Folks wake up Islam is the problem not the sect. Don't waste your time on the Tazi desert pretend "religion".

Now my friends you just look at the people on this site. There are a bunch with "Tazi" stamped on every post they make.

AN may live in Iran but he is a dyed in the wool Arab. Maybe we need to talk about Tazi-Zadegi? Or Islam-Zadegi.

Please tell me why should we give this Tazi garbage another chance. It is rotten to the core and hopeless.

I love how you talk like you know every single iranian out there in the diaspora... What a clown. A typical Afkooni/Tazi whore barking out of jealousy.

This despicable set of barbaric laws is evil. It must be eradicated. I will bet you that the Islamic Republic will be gone. With it the Mullahs and their imposed Tazi religion.

There is nothing legitimate about IRR which is an Tazi occupation "government".

Of course Arabs and Arab lovers like you do not get it. To you and the rest of leftover Tazi gene pool Islam is the way. You will find it an increasingly isolated path. As one by one people leave it.

Now you are showing your true Iran hating / Islamist worshiping colors. The Ali stuff must have hit home. Go worsihip your Tazi masters. The Ali stuff must have hit home. Go worsihip your Tazi masters.

Know racism and religious bigotry when you see it. If you replace this racist garbage about Arabs and Islam with any ohter religion, you will be rightly denounced as a racist bigot. But too many delusional Iranians are full of hypocrisy and exceptionalism. Those crying the loudest about not being racists and bigots are usually the most deluded racists and bigots.

Islam is not fit for modern civilization

It truly is not. You cannot bring the laws of 6th century nomadic Arabs who went to war over the pride of their camels for 40 years constantly to be taken seriously now a days. Yes, islam helped the Arabs, but not the Iranians, if anything, it kept our nation back.

Now, I don't mind any Iranian who wishes to stay as a muslim, christian etc... but, the second they try to bring religion into politics that's when I'll punch them directly in the face. This is why I prefer a nationalistic government, cause they put nation before any religion or foreign ideology, and that's how it should be.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

zemnan...

"Jealousy"???

Jealous of what?

Of this?

Islam is supremacist at heart

There are many examples to show this. Take the verse 33 of Sura Aal-i-Imran:

"Truly Allah chose Adam and Noah and the descendants of Abraham and of 'Imran above all mankind."

More info? See here.

Mr Dariush Abadani

Lets agree on terms we both agree;

1- Islam as a spritual source of millions over millions of Iranians is a reality regardless of its prior record & should be acknowledged, respected in principle(not on minor details) if not followed. Any effort to villify or delegitimize it at this juncture is futile and unproductive . Islam for good or bad is the only channel with God & sprituality open to the masses and this approach shall fail as the people's choice has been made abundently clear.

2-What swords of Omar & Safavid could not convert was converted by ommatie kharabati beauticians such as shaikh Hafiz , Saadi or mollana who converted brand new millions into their sharia utopia. So if one loves Hafiz & Saadi then one should shut the hell up about  bashing Islam or Muslims in general.

3-Modern Iran is a nation of multi identities in contrast & not a one dimensional entity that  ommaties or nationalists or pan-arabs or pan-turks wish it to be. Why do you think shah failed & was hated by Arabs and Turks? yes, his cultural policies indirectly alienated them. One can not expect the 23 million Turks, 5 milion Arabs, 2 million seyeds(some of em) and few million ommaties  to have the same perception of Iranian identity & heritage as that of the Medio-Persian  minorities such as Kurds, the so called Persians or lurs. A turk or an Arab seeks her/his lineage from the post-Sassanid Iran and has little or absolute zero  interest in pre-qadessi heritage or kiaani Iran and we should all respect that as reality and stop alienating them as outsiders.  they should also friikin respect medeo-persian perception of their identity and stop jerking around & insulting or degrading their kiaani heritage. So its a 2 way street pal.

4- Lets give respect to earn respect. For nationalists to put your AraboIslamic heritage down is wrong & for you to keep yapping & degrading their pre-Arab medeo-persian heritage is also dumb ignorant and divisive.

& btw, I dont know what are you bickering about.. look around you pal, we are a nation of Arabs in denial in every field be it language, script, spirituality, customs, laws, names and icons . So why are you so intolerant complaining of even these last dying whispers of the patient who has all but lost her identity and merely begging for acknowledgment.. So are you an Arab or Turk brother?

Cheers!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Dariushabadi Aziz

Regarding your taxation reason statement, I should like to mention that this factor was not a great contributing factor to conversion.  Taxation in Islam is not confined to Zakaat.  There is also Khoms (one fifth of certain products and spoils ...) that they had pay to the government's terssury which was regarded Beit'Ol'Mal Moslemeen and was supposed to be spent for the well-being of the public including non-Moslems.  Other governmental taxes had been imposed upon Moslems as necessity had arisen. 

There were other obligations including fighting in defenssive wars that Moslem subjects were obliged to participate while none Molem subjects were not.  In general, if you look at matters through a worldly eye (let's say welfare) non Moslem subjects were a bit better off than Moslems in paying tributes and shouldering social obligations. 

Both words and concepts of Jezyeh (Persian Gazeet personal tax) and Kharaj (Persian Kharag provincial or territorial tax) were two taxes in existence in Iran long time before Arabs.  Even the words are Persian in origine.  There are plenty of evidence in Shahname about (Baaj and Kharaj that local: let's say provincial) governors used to pay to the Royal Courts in Iran before Islam.  Did Arabs increase the amount?  I am not fully aware as my information of first hand sources are somhow rusty.  It is more likely that either Moslems kept them used to be or slightly decreased the amount to gain more loyality of the subjects: local rulers, (who were mostly unruly and disloyal to their previous rulers: kings, or changed sides as certain tide arose) who surrendered their provinces according to contracts to Moslems and so remained internally autonomous.  One of such ruler, according to Shahnameh, was Mahooy'e Sooree the ruler of Mav who shifted side against YazdGerd III and helped Beezhan from Tasoxiana against Yazgerd and eventually ordered Yazdgerd death.  One of those such places that opened its door to Moslems according to contract was Esfahan and another was Khorassan; and if I am not mistaken, the other one was Rey.

Do you pay less tributes once you are converted to Islam?  I have serious doubts.

Thanks 

Easy on DK Abarmard jaan!

Abarmard, I have always known you as one of the most tolerant people on this site. Did you have a bad coffee this morning? This la'nati delusional DK once sent me to Marhoumiyat (account blockage in IC), ..., but he is an interesting person nevertheless, I hardly read his comments these days but I still like his link (Ma liberté de penser)

//iranian.com/main/blog/darius-kadivar/vous-n...

BTW, related to topic my main issue with Islam is the debate over conversion.

VPK Jaan Lotf Dareed

Appreciate your kind support.

Amen ! 

Oh ... Mon Pauvre Ami ...

I would have liked to Think that Your Friends and Likemind's Were Merely Rude 

HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: Man Chased by Anti Shah Protestors During Shah's US Visit (1977)

And Not as Deadly !

HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: Prince Shahryar Shafiq (1945-1979)

HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: Hadi Ghaffari executioner of Amir Abbas Hoveyda (1979)

HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: Pulitzer Prize Photo of Rebels Executed by Iran's Revolutionaries (1979)

And I will limit myself to the above links so as not to "hurt" your

Chaste Eyes and Ears  ...

DK Jaan

I find your humor quite funny and well placed. I have detected no anger issues. And I am a prophet I ought to know :-)

Abarmard

Here are the points Abadi is making. Please tell me if you agree. I have added my brief responses and included some of other people.

• Islam is not Arabic.
  • * Islam has Arabic roots and is based on Arabic nationalism as Parthianshot91 explained. Payers in Arabic;  strongly pushes people to use Arabic names; is based on Arabic culture.
  • * Islam is barbaric. This is point I made. It does not matter whether Islam is Arabic or not. It is barbaric and that is the problem with it..
• Was Islam forced on Iranian people.
  • * Abadi says no because the Ummyats preferred Iranians non Muslim.  My response is that there was another 1200 years after them. In that period specially during Safavids Islam *was* forced at sword point.
  • * Abadi says no Arabs attacked China, Indonesia or India. I say: how does that prove Islam was not forced on Iran? What do China; India or Indonesia have to do with Iran?
• Shah paid his respects to Islam.
  • * Shah had to deal with political realities. Plus he may well have been a Muslim. So what? Why do people who up to now opposed the Shah use him as an example.
  • * Monarchy is based on God's will. That is DK's point. In Iran the majority religion is Islam. Therefore Shah paid respects to it. So what?
• Religions is used to keep people backwards. This is Behrooz's point. I agree with him and the proof is there for all to see.

Can handle humor

Your tone is very rude. I will ignore it as I believe you have anger issues at this time. I do not believe that you are unreasonable to understand my point.

I enjoy humor very much, but there is a time and place for everything. 

Monsieur Abarmard VOUS n'aurez Pas Ma Liberté de Penser !

On the Contary I am Sticking entirely to the Subject at hand Even if It Shakes YOUR Personal Convictions !

That YOU and YOUR Pro IRI Likeminds cannot handle Humour as has been proved time and again Is One thing   :

//iranian.com/main/2010/oct/shirin-ebadi-...

But to Wish to Shut Someone for expressing them is another.

Your Friends have Already Shut Our Views To Deadly Proportions:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1bx3JHPZX0&feature...

Be it In THEIR NAME I shall Not Relinquish "Ma Liberté de Penser":

VOUS N'AUREZ PAS MA LIBERTE DE PENSER !

Respectfully,

DK 

Stay with the points of the author

First to Mr. Kadivar,

When it comes to issues that you feel comfortable to debate, you write long comments explaining your points of view, and many respectfully read them. It's impolite to fill a page with your jokes when someone cares about a topic and have respectfully asked for a healthy debate. Please take note of this.

Second, I believe those who want to disagree but do not have the knowledge or the facts, me included, write a thankful comment to the author for bringing strong points with logic, and wait for someone with more historical knowledge to answer. If no answer comes, then accept that the points mentioned here are true and correct your behavior. This means we learned something here.

The debate should revolving around the points mentioned in this blog, so the scope is clear. You may want to only dispute one of the points above, and that is fine since it is within the scope.

Hope a knowledgeable individual would respond here. I am very interested to hear the opposite point of view.

This Photo's Absolutely Coherent Which only proves your ...

Ignorance about the entire concept of the monarchy:

In Response to the blog Jealousy over "Arab" Islam 

Roozbeh Jan

I like your analysis. I would say that Islam has been used to guarantee the rule of "ignorance" in the region.They want to keep people superstitious and backwards. Makes them simple pickings for exploitation.

Now American heavy hitters are using Christianity to guarantee ignorance in the USA!

The real issue is neither islam, muslims nor "anti_arab" folks

Not even the Shah and his grand kids' names.

If you want to seriously understand why Iran is in the mess it is today, start reading about and understand  the way this religious of Islam has been used as far back as the foundation of the Kingdom of the saudi Arabia. Since precisely 1917, Islam has been used - very successfully- by the western Imperialists as a tool primarily to block the spread of socialism, secularism and modernism into middle east in order to safeguard the flow of cheap oil into western industrial complexes. In practice, the west has created and actively supported the most repressive, criminal fascistic dictatorships the humanity has known of under the banner of "Islamist regimes" in the middle east. To name a few:

1) the House of the Saud in Saudi Arabia

2) Taliban in Afghanistan.

3) Last, not least, our very own criminal, anti Iran, anti humanity Islamist Regime.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Islam Barbaric

is the point. Islam Arabic is not the issue.Now iit happens that despite Abadi's attempts at obfuscation Parthianshot91 did a fine job proving Islam is Arabic. However I point out that even if Islam was not Arabic it would still be barbaric.

I never read

as much nonsense as in this article. The problem is Islam not Arabs. The writer confuses Islam and Arabs. Then makes a confused attempt to prove that because Arabs were not involved in something then it makes it right somehow?

1) Who cares? The % of Arab vs non Arab makes no difference in what Islam is.

2) Islam was spread by force of sword in many countries. Not Arab sword by force nevertheless. Once a nation is "Islamized" it makes its way into its politics. It works like a virus. Taking over the forces of that nation to attack others and spread itself. 

3) This is the most obnoxious of Abadi's claims. 

A common myth is that Iranians were forced to convert to Islam by the sword. History testifies otherwise. The Ummayads who ruled over Iran preferred that the indigenous populations remain non-Muslim for
two reasons:

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of dead non Muslims. Islam was forced by the sword over 1400 years . Not over 200 years and not always Arab sword. For example the Safavids forced millions of Zoroastrians to become Muslim or die. You just happen to not mention that. 

4) Here is another one:

So if Islam is so foreign and so Arab, then why has the Pahlavi dynasty that these anti-Muslims here so admire not abandoned it. Especially Reza Pahlavi that lives in the West and named his daughters
"NOOR" and "IMAAN" (both Arab names, Muslim names).

Why are Islamists now using Pahlavis as proof? I thought you people hated the Pahalavi? The truth is that Pahlavi had no choice at the time but to deal with political reality. At that time Islam was a powerful force in Iran. The had to pay lib service. In addition the name Reza was used in honor of Reza khan not some "Imam" as you like us to think. Regarding Noor and Imaan so what? Maybe RP likes the way the names sound.

The problem with Islam is not being Arabic. It is being barbaric. No matter how you try Mr. Abadi: Islam is barbaric. Go watch a woman be stoned as proof. Then deny it.

Like all Islamists Abadi is a a shameless apologist for murder and genocide.

I disagree Comrade

Only those of us who show tolerance toward Islam, and understand the importance of Iran's geographical and historical facts will be able to be part of the solution for solving the problem of IRI.   

Comrade: you may or may not be right. However this statement is arrogant. Why should I show tolerance towards: child molestation; having women be second class citizens; cutting people's hands off; whipping people? This is Islam do you get it or not? See I did not turn into a "soosk" and climb the wall. What are Iranians required to defend Islam that was forced on them? We are under no obligation to tolerate this evil. God some people go through extremes to come up with excuses for this sorry cult of Islam. No I will not tolerate this barbaric junk from the 6th century. Yes I am anti Islam and proud of it. Now you take it however you like. I will not be intimidated.

Arabs on the other hand are  a different story. They are people some are good and some are bad. I do not want being anti-Islam to turn into anti-Arab racism. Just as I don't want Islam to turn into total support for Arabs. They should be dealt with like anyone else: on an individual basis. In addition I consider Iranians of Arab origin no different than any other Iranian. Specially when they know Persian and consider themselves an Iranian.

الحمد الله

I have never taken the anti-Arab, anti-Islam sentiment which is being expressed by a few in this site seriously, dismissing it as vengeful propaganda, only.

Shah's misleading resort to either religious or national symbolism was purely for self-serving and image-molding purposes. He was not either a religious or a nationalist being. Same goes with the names of his third generation.

Only those of us who show tolerance toward Islam, and understand the importance of Iran's geographical and historical facts will be able to be part of the solution for solving the problem of IRI.   

Never increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.

Here is Why ...

"You've Got Have Faith ... You've Got Have Faith ... Da ... Da ...Da" -George Michael

ROYALTY AND FAITH:Ayatollah Jannati Kisses Shahbanou Farah's Hand (1970's)

"But I've got to think twice
Before I give my heart away
And I know all the games you play

Because I play them too "

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqepCssCPT0&ob=av2n

Yes, Dariush jan,

You are absolutely correct. Many Iranians, particularly some of the Monarchists are seriously suffering from delusion, racism and ethnocentricism. They've taken a few historical events so far out of context to justify their hatred toward anything Arab and Muslim. But they have no problem adopting western culture and customs, have nothing to say about Iranian occupations by the West or the most devestating genocides of Iranians at the hands of the Mongols.

The reasons are simple. This was a classic British/American colonial strategy which the puppet Pahlavi's advisors forcefed the Iranian educated class (they had no means of influencing the rest of Iranians). It was simply to "divide and conquor" the region which required fanning the flames of racial and ethnic prejudices to keep people divided, specially against nations under the communist sphere of influence (most Arab countries). These elitist and racist attitudes were necessary if you wanted to climb the social latter under the 50 year Pahlavi system. So, naturally, it comes together with the shallow status-seeking ultrawesternized class that the Shah rewarded with money and power.

I tackled this issue a while back. Take alook here. The Bazargan video debunks some of the foundational mythology of these racists.

The other major issue often ignored is the appalling corrupt dictatorship of the Sassanids which is the single biggest cause of the implosion of the Persian empire. For example, almost everyone living under the Sassanids was forced to pay much higher taxes, even compared to the Jizya for non-Muslims that came later.

Thanks, I'm glad most people don't get fooled by these.

Here is Why ...

SATIRE: I voted ;0)

you are blind by racism

You all always recite Saadi's poem "Bani Adam azayeh yek digarand" (The children of Adam are from one body), but you never practice it.

Which by the way, Saadi's poem was just a poetic version of a Hadith from the Prophet Muhammad saying the exact same thing. The Prophet is quoted as saying the children of adam are of one body/soul. If one part gets hurt, the whole body feels it.

Zoroastrianism spread east to west as well in foreign lands. I think its an inferiority complex that the religion brought by the Arabs is the one that dominated our culture.

If the Shah had to pay "lip service" it was only because the majority of his country was practicing muslims and not by force but by choice. And what about his son in exile????

If he believes Islam is a spent force why does he still speak of Islam positively and named his children from words in the Qur'an?

incorrect conclusions

just because the shah and his son had/have muslim names doesn't mean that they were/are dedicated to islam.  the shah only paid lip service to islam because  of political necessity.  if he had his way there would have been complete secularism in iran, period. 

as most of you know, there was only one thing standing in his way, the mullahs.  the shah was a secular politician who realized that a lot of his subjects were religious muslims so he had to sometimes "show off" his piety in order to burnish his credentials in their eyes.  thats really the only reason he did ziarat, kept muslim names, and swore on the quran etc...

Islam = Arabism

Islam equals the arab mentality and identity, this is why.

1. You can only pray in Arabic.

2. The racist quran can only be written in Arabic

3. Muslims are expected to wear the arab clothing, put rags and towels on their heads, and wear manly Arab skirts.

Not to mention that only 2 countries were Arab before the Islamic invasion of the mid-east and Northe africa, and those two countries were saudia Arabia and yemen, the rest, like the Phenocians/Lebanese, Iraqis/Babyloanians, Syrians, Egyptians, Northern African Berber/Amazigh states were never Arab. If Islam wasn't an Arab religion from the beginning, then arabs have corrupted it to the level that it can never be saved. Modern islam is only used to spread the filth of Arabism, it's a political tool that is used by the Arabs nowadays. 

I don't care much for religion, cause it's bewteen only me and god and none else, but if I had to suggest a religion for my fellow Iranians/Persians, then it would be Zoroasterianism followed by bahaism, but especially zoroasterianism since that is mainly a Persian religion while Bahaism, it might have some Persian elements in it, it's a worldly religion, and sadly we Iranians have not put the interests of Iran and Iranians ahead for a long time, so I would go with Zoroasterianism.

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"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

 "I'd rather be hated for w