Persian-American Rational Society (PARS)

یه نفر به من گفت: ما مسلمان هستیم، ولی اسلامی نیستیم

Without going into details again, the difference here is in the political Islam vs. private Muslims, as it was eluted to by Mash Ghasem and Roozbeh Gilani.  As an example in other religions, there are 18 offences punishable by stoning in the bible, but you do not see Christians and Jews stoning anyone!  So, if Iran is to prosper as a civil society, the religion needs to be separated from the government and placed back in private homes, i.e., all religions need to be respected and recognized.

PS, A change of venue: Another person jokingly told me that before 1979, we prayed at home and drank alcohol outside, but now we pray outside and drink inside our homes

DR jan, we should oppose Islam or anyother ideology imposed

by the State in the Public Sphere. What people do and believe in their homes is nobody's business. Iranian people are now calling for a seperation of State and Religion, not necessarily an end to religion. As long as we have human alienation, we're all stuck with religions, of one type or another.

At the same time we shall oppose any "ideological" states be it left, right, religious,...

Somehow you folks need to discuss with and convince your new member, that opposing Islamic Repulic is not the same as offending personal beliefes of all moslems in Iran. There are many practicing moslems who oppose IR, are working for overthrowing it, hoping for a day in which an individual's thoughts and ideas are treated as such , a matter of personal choice, and not regulated by the State.

So, to the extent that Islam is a problem within the Public Sphere ( and god know in IR tis a big problem), it should be discussed and get rid of. Other than that, it would be most  counter productive to focus on an individual's beliefs.

Hope that clarified this very complex issue a bit, cheers

........

It is very hard not to discuss Islam.......when IRI put "Allah" on the national flag......implementing Sharia law.....calling people "Mohareb"......calling Khamenei "God's representative" on the Earth.

Better example: Spain's general Franco's Fascism.

Which relied heavily and had support of Catholic church. The same catholic church which positioned ditself with the people and against the fascist dictatorships in south America. So attacking Catholism would not have been the right strategy.

 Soviet Union was quite different to todays Islamic regime. I argue the "soviet Union" which collapesed and disintegrated largely under it's own weight had very little to do with the soviet system which was put in place after the 1917 revolution. You could agree or disagree with me on that, but the fact is that the  Soviet Union leadership, the realistics they were,  more or less gave up on their own system. there were not mass demo's against the soviet system in soviet union, let alone shootings, rape and torture of demonstrators.

Here, today in Iran we have a regime fighting tooth and nail to maintain power, and using islam to justify it's mere existance. big, big difference... 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Hmm

One should always be sceptical of people who can't stand critism...

Hmm

One should always be sceptical of people who can't stand critism...

Can you fight Soviet Regime without discussing Communism?

Thank you both Mash Ghasem and Roozbeh_Gilani for your valuable responses! I will give you an example. Lt’s say we live in former Soviet Union and we are trying to fight the Soviet Regime. Is it possible to fight this system without discussing Communist ideology? The Communist ideology is the main fabric of the former Soviet system. How can you fight Soviet Regime without discussing Communism? I feel like this is the same with Islamic Republic.
David Ramezani

To remove cancer "requires" fighting the cells that cause it?

Cancer = Islamic Republic!

Cancerous cells = Islam!

quod erat demonstrandum = Q.E.D.

if you want to "fight the islamic republic"

And most importantly, win the fight, do not attack Islam! This is due to the social and cultural fabric of our society, per Mash Ghasem's.

 By all means, debate islam within the context of it's misuse by the so called Islamic republic. Remember, in a revolutionary situation which I believe we are heading towards in Iran very fast, you need to use any weapon available to you against your enemy, and hit your enemy so hard that it would never rise again.

 The battle against all forms of religious superstition is of course an ideological battle which should and must be fought in a democratic and open society.

The current battle however is against islamist fascism. All forms of fascism could only be defeated by a united front comprising diverse, even opposing ideologies, all united in their desire in forming a democratic society.

And Happy norooz to you too!

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Stop discussing Islam...

Thank you SOS-FREE-IRAN for your response and Happy NowRooz! We are a small group of people trying to work and cooperate with everyone. Recently a nice and a respected individual joined us. We were delighted that a member of our community joined us. However, we are faced with an issue. We are asked to state in our bylaw to stop discussing Islam or any other religion in this group.

We would like to know what other people think about this. I like to know how to handle this issue.

Sepass,
David Ramezani

DR, we need to distinguish between public and private spheres

meaning that, the problem with IR is that it has forced Islam into the public shpere, whereas it belongs to the private sphere.

Many Iranians are moslem but increasingly majority of them would like to treat Islam and religion as a private concern,and affair, as it ought to be.

On a personal level I'm a non-beliver myself, and don't have much sympathy for Islam or any other religion, but we shouldn't reduce our problems in Iran today to Islam.

Our society and culture as a whole has a " religious thinking" mentality, Deen Khoyie, as Prof. Aramesh Dostar has coined it. Also check out some of his works, you might like his critique of Islam, and our way of religious thinking. Good luck with your community organizing, cheers

P.S. Are you still in ATL?

Iran belongs to native Iranians - the Zoroasterians and Pagans

Iran belongs to Native Iranians who were secular, Zoroasterian and/or Pagan. Our native iranians have been forced to convert, to hide, to go into exile. We need to restore Iran's native government and religion in Iran. The Muslims can go to Saudi Arabia where Mohammad was born and raised - the origin of Islam. There are many Islamic countries around the world to which these muslims can find their compatriots. However, there is no place in the world for followers of Zoroaster and mithraism. Iran is their rightful home, just as the jews have dedicated Israel for only the jews. Iran is for native Iranians only. There is no place in Iran for these Muslims who came in by force. They need to be forced into exile to other muslim countries. They have overstayed their welcome in Iran and enough genocide. Iranians have suffered more than the jews under the bloody sword of islam, particularly in the past 32 years. Let the bells of freedom toll for native iranians. pull the chadors, let the year sweep out all these mullahs, mullazadehs, arab-practicing and speaking barbarians from our beautiful country.