The John & would be harlot

by Fred

The sanitized version of an old joke goes like this:

A man approaches a woman in a bar and asks her "If I give you a million dollars will you sleep with me?"  The woman pauses and after some thought says "Yes, I will." The man responds "How about for five dollars?" indignantly she says "Of course not. What kind of a woman do you think I am?" The man replies "I thought we just settled that. I was just haggling over the price."

For the longest time, IRR, the Islamist Rapist Republic, its lobbies and some others were insisting U.S. should meet face to face with the Islamist Rapists and work things out.  Finally U.S. did it in the form of three days of talks between the five plus one and the representatives of the IRR which included a forty five minutes of one on one official meeting between U.S. and IRR emissaries.

Out of these talks came the mutually agreed to understanding that the IRR will deliver eighty percent of its known stockpile of illegally enriched uranium to the West and after further enrichment gets back the resulting fuels rods.

The hitch now is after a de facto acknowledgement of its nuke enrichment program which according to the United Nation Security Council resolutions is illegal, having settled that the IRR is haggling over the amount of the enriched uranium it is willing to part with.

Meanwhile back in Iran, men, women and children are being raped, tortured and murdered by the state and them spinning centrifuges producing more and more stockpiles of dual use materials.  

Before it is too late the sane world has to impose airtight sanctions and at the same time help the enslaved Iranians with material and moral support to overthrow the Islamist menace.


Recently by FredCommentsDate
ادا اطوار اسلامی
Dec 05, 2012
مسجد همجنسگرایان
Dec 05, 2012
Iranians are legitimate target
Dec 04, 2012
more from Fred


by Fred on

The premise of your argument that the previous regime fell without the use of sanctions so shall this one rests solely on the comparability of two regimes. But not believing in your premise, I logically cannot agree with your conclusion.

 As for helping the civil society in Iran under the watchful eyes of the Islamist Rapists, experience has shown the Islamist Rapist are good at shutting them down, creating multiple mirror societies for every legitimate ones that have survived and rendered ineffective.

Lastly I do not agree with your “first do no harm” principle since any proposal at this stage will have some harm attached to it. I see Iran and Iranians under the rule of Islamist Rapists as a relative who is suffering from cancerous cells being injected into their veins and in order to put a stop to it unwanted and yet necessary decisive measures with harmful side effects must be taken and taken right away. Take care.


Sanctions of any kind only harm the Iranian people, while...

by Ostaad on

leaving all levers of economic power in the hands of the regime. The smart solution for the "West" is to EXPAND diplomatci, economic and political with Iran. Econimic expansion is the key to providing the Iranina middle/working class with the economic horizon they need to be able maintain a reasonable standard of living. Once the Iranian middle/working class, the very people who are risking EVERYTHING by standing up to the regime pressing the regime to restore their human/civil rights, find a degree of economic footing and socio-economic horizon that ensure their livelihood, THEY will go all the way.

For example, I believe the US opposition to Iran joining the WTO is a grave mistake. The WTO was created with the specific goal of facilitating trade among its member nations. In Iran's case, that means the regime and the Sepaah will not be able to do business as usual. Instead they must adhere to international laws and regulations about free and open trade. In short, nor more hanky panky.

Fred, has consistently shown he does not have the intellectual integrity, to spell out what he means by "airtight, or targeted, or surgical" sanctions, which Iran's more honest enemies call "debilitating sanctions". I don't think he will ever find that kind of intellectual honesty and dignity. Fred can only give vague "fatwas" in the old tradition of the the same mollaas that he purports to despise.

Comparing Iran with the SA situation is a canard. The Apartheid regime in SA, like it bastard offshoot in Israel, was based on clear-cut racial  discriminatory principles. On the contrary, the Iranian regime is an equal opportunity oppressor. Shieh, Sunni, gabr, yahoodi, Kor, Lor, etc. are all equal in the regime's eyes. There are only the "khodis" and the "naakhodi".  There is nothing racial nor religious about the current regime, so comparing it to SA is as asinine as Fred has always been.

In short, sanction-be-sanction. 



by AMIR1973 on

There is no "silver bullet". However, I think the principle to observe should be: "First do no harm". Airtight sanctions would augment the misery that the IRI has brought upon the Iranian people, as they have done elsewhere. I support moral support and material support from individuals and civil society of whatever nationality (and most of all, from fellow Iranians abroad) to the people of Iran to aid their struggle against the IRI. It didn't take sanctions to bring down the Shah's regime. In fact, the Shah's regime had diplomatic and commercial relations with the U.S., Europe, the Arab monarchies, Egypt, Israel, and even the USSR. But none of that could save the regime. It didn't take sanctions then, and it won't require sanctions now.  





by Fred on

You might care to rephrase your original argument, as you did here, as many times as you wish, unfortunately I neither find it compelling as in all the other times such comparison has been put forward in many other venues nor find them applicable for the cited reasons.

It might very well be that you are absolutely right and I am wrong, would not be the first time that I've been wrong, but till I come across a compelling argument which also has a solution attached to it, I will be sticking with my current belief as explained in the previous response.

I am of the conviction that the Islamist Rapists are accelerating the tempo of the thirty year journey of doom with nightmarish destination that they’ve imposed on Iran and Iranians which no one of conscious would wish on their worst enemy -- therefore it has to be headed off before it is too late.  Should you agree, then by all means let me hear your solution.


Response to Fred

by AMIR1973 on

Fred says: "The answer is provided the sanction regime is of the same ratcheting up over many years kind which was used in Iraq..."

This is not what made the sanctions in Iraq miserable for the population; it is the fact that they were intended to be airtight. Moreover, sanctions against S. Africa were NOT airtight. S. Africa had diplomatic and trade relations with a number of countries, including the U.S., U.K., Japan, Taiwan, Israel (to name a few).

Fred says: "If for some unfathomable reason there are those who imagine life under the Islamist Rapists is ok and heading in the right direction and not a colossal disaster after thirty years of the same, they need to snap out of it. Or those who know of a silver bullet which without any further hardship can alleviate the coming disaster, they should speak up."

No, life under the IRI is NOT okay and NOT heading in the right direction. And yes, Islamism has been a disaster for Iran. However, if you add airtight sanctions to the mix it could potentially make an awful situation even worse (which is what happened in Iraq). In searching for a "silver bullet" to bring down the IRI, one could end up harming a lot of innocent Iranian people AND still not bring down the IRI--which is what happened to Iran's neighbor after that most recent attempt at airtight sanctions for a dictatorial regime accused of having an active WMD program (which approximates the current situation with Iran).  


Clueless Fred


Citing a single example to refute the argument is a massive fail on your part.


Now you can spin it all you want but the fact of the matter is, IRGC thrives with sanctions.



The Iraq analogy

by Fred on

Amir poses a legitimate question:

“Could sanctions do to Iran what did they do Iraq?”

The answer is provided the sanction regime is of the same ratcheting up over many years kind which was used in Iraq, provided all the many dissimilarities of the two situations are disregarded, it might.

But on the other hand, Iran having more similarities with S. Africa than with Iraq, airtight sanctions might help in emancipation of Iran and Iranians from the yoke of the Islamist Rapists as it did the South Africans from the racist Afrikaners whose apartheid tactics and demeanor can be found in abundance in the IRR.

If for some unfathomable reason there are those who imagine life under the Islamist Rapists is ok and heading in the right direction and not a colossal disaster after thirty years of the same, they need to snap out of it. Or those who know of a silver bullet which without any further hardship can alleviate the coming disaster, they should speak up.



"Sanctions of mass destruction"

by AMIR1973 on

  What effect did "airtight sanctions" have on Iraq? Could sanctions do to Iran what did they do Iraq? Here's an excerpt from the article. I've put the link below:    

 "The destructive potential of economic sanctions can be seen most clearly, albeit in an extreme form, in Iraq. That country seems to have been peculiarly vulnerable because so much of its economy was dependent on the export of oil, because the effects of sanctions have been enhanced by the destruction of much Iraqi infrastructure during the Gulf War, and because the country's political leadership sometimes seems more interested in maximizing the nation's suffering for propaganda purposes than in relieving it.
    "No one knows with any precision how many Iraqi civilians have died as a result, but various agencies of the United Nations, which oversees the sanctions, have estimated that they have contributed to hundreds of thousands of deaths. By 1998 Iraqi infant mortality had reportedly risen from the pre-Gulf War rate of 3.7 percent to 12 percent. Inadequate food and medical supplies, as well as breakdowns in sewage and sanitation systems and in the electrical power systems needed to run them, reportedly cause an increase of 40,000 deaths annually of children under the age of 5 and of 50,000 deaths annually of older Iraqis.      //


The clueless "analysts"

by Fred on

A poster who when it comes to IRR has a Laissez-faire point of view in part says:

“Some analysts have argued that the IRGC actually benefits from a more economically isolated Iran because it no longer has to compete with foreign companies for government contracts.”


The poster might want to inform those cited “analysts” that they know zilch about how the Islamist Rapists run Iran and what an alien concept competition has been to them for the past three decades of ruling over enslaved Iran and Iranians.

As an example of how clueless they are, the poster might want to cite the case of the Turkish company and Tehran’s new International airport and how the Guards dealt with that competition.


Is Congress Trying To


Is Congress Trying To Torpedo US-Iran Engagement?


Today the House Committee on Foreign Affairs is marking up H.R. 2194, the Iran Refined Petroleum Sanctions Act of 2009. Rep. Steny Hoyer has “committed to moving the bill quickly to a vote once it is passed out of the committee.”


The American Enterprise Institute’s Iran Tracker website looked at the potential impact of the gas sanctions, and concluded that “the imposition of sanctions
might generate no significant change in Iranian policy in the short
term.” It also notes that “the group that should be the target of
strengthened sanctions, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC),
is least likely to be affected”:


Some analysts have argued that the IRGC actually
benefits from a more economically isolated Iran because it no longer
has to compete with foreign companies for government contracts
For example, one of the main engineering companies under IRGC control,
Khatam al-Anbiya, has secured at least $7 billion in government oil,
gas, and transportation contracts. Although IRGC companies do not
always have the necessary technical expertise for some projects, they
still generate revenue by acting as an intermediary between the
government and international companies. IRGC members may continue to
receive government contracts and subsidy money even if the government
adjusted domestic economic policies.


So even the high church of U.S. aggression recognizes that not only
would gas sanctions likely not have any effect on Iran’s nuclear
policy, they could also end up empowering the very faction whose
increased control over Iranian policy has resulted in Iran more
aggressively pursuing its nuclear program. And that’s the upside. The
downside is that the U.S. Congress moving forward with unilateral
sanctions — with all the inevitable hawkish posturing that that entails
— at an especially sensitive juncture in negotiations will provide
opponents of a deal within the Iranian regime with precisely the
demonstration of American bad faith — and thus a convenient excuse to
walk away — that they’re looking for