About myself:
I'm half Iranian and half American. I'm here to say what I think. If you came here to be pleased or flattered, you're in the wrong place. No one owns me. I'm a free individual. I don't bow to anyone's politics, here or in Iran. I'm my own person, and that's too bad if anyone doesn't like it. When people read my stuff, they'll get MY opinion. I alone am responsible for my opinion - no one else is. Likewise, I'm not responsible for your opinion, or your assumptions about me. You are.The only reason I'm still here and writing on Iranian.com is that I consistently refused to back down or be intimidated when people objected to what I was writing. Through sheer persistence, I got some people to reluctantly pay attention.
Its not because Iranians are so tolerant. Its that they can't shut me up, and eventually give up when they realize I'm not going away and am going to tell the truth as I see it, regardless of what they think.
The negative reactions I've encountered on Iranian.com are not the only occasions where Iranians have shown a dislike for an open discussion that they couldn't control.
My father - who is Iranian - urged me not to study history, because (according to his know-it-all Iranian self) there was no money in it.
In other words, according to him, historical research - the aim of which is to discover the truth - is only good if it makes money.
As I mentioned, my father is Iranian. Iranians don't tend to value the truth for its own sake, but see things like the study of history as subordinate to some goal; making money, or looking good in some other way (both of which are naturally interconnected in the reputation-obsessed Iranian mind).
Its very important to be goal-oriented among Iranians; to know what you want, and for that to dictate EVERYTHING you do.
Nothing is any use unless it helps you get to some conclusion or goal. If it doesn't serve the purpose of reaching your goal, it is useless and you shouldn't spend time on it.
For example, the truth.
Iranians appear to occasionally regard the truth as something of an obstacle, in their hurry to get somewhere in life - the destination usually being a stage somewhere where they can look good in front of others, or a money-making machine like a respectable profession.
A classic example of this attitude is found in the way they treat their own history.
Over two thousand years ago, Iran was conquered by the Greeks.
I am no expert on this, and am still full of questions. How did the Greeks manage to conquer such a relatively huge empire as the Persian Empire?
How did they manage to defeat an army that was probably much larger than their own?
The genius needed to do such a thing - i.e. Alexander the Great's - is probably widely comprehended and understood by anyone with a serious interest in historic knowledge for its own sake.
It is not apparently comprehended by Iranians, however. Persian pride - that same futile inspiration that keeps them from acknowledging their shortcomings as a nation and people - prevents such a thing from happening.
In general at least, Iranians don't openly admit that they got their asses kicked fair and square by a smaller state with a smaller army.
Iranians are still pissed about it, two thousand years later!
That of course is the whole reason why they can't admit it.
The issue for Iranians is that they got their asses kicked. That the Persians invaded Greek territory first, entered Athens and then burned the Acropolis isn't the issue.
The only problem is that it MAKES THEM LOOK BAD - and how they look is all they are concerned about. As usual, the truth gets swept under the two thousand year old Persian carpet.
And so it was that I never learned about the genius of Alexander the Great from any Iranian.
As English poet Robert Graves wryly noted,
Truth-loving Persians do not dwell upon
The trivial skirmish fought near Marathon
When I raised the subject of these battles with Iranians inside of Iran, they always came up with a way to spin these battles into some sort of irrelevancy where they could safely not reflect badly on Iranians.
"The Iranian king chained his soldiers together", was what one know-it-all Iranian medical student told me. He painted a vision for me of a battle in which hapless Persian soldiers were conveniently chained together just so that the Greeks could defeat them. No rational explanation was ever given for this supposed situation, and I couldn't come up with any either.
I neglected to ask him if the supposedly chained Persian soldiers even had weapons, while I pondered.
My Iranian literature teacher bristled when I pointed out Alexander the Great's genius, and sternly informed me that Alexander the Great was the first one to legalize and promote homosexuality in Iran, and to make it officially acceptable as a practice.
And that was that. End of discussion about his military career.
... an old, slightly different twist on the policy of "don't ask, don't tell".
A close friend of mine had an obvious rise in blood pressure when I spoke with appreciation about how remarkable it was that Alexander the Great and the Greeks defeated the huge Persian Empire.
His eyes shone with anger, as he protested!
He tried to shift focus away from this inconvenient defeat, towards one supposed battle where Alexander's forces took heavy casualties and were allegedly defeated (I never learned any details of that supposedly all-important but conveniently obscure battle from him, but my guess is that this might have been the Battle of the Persian Gate).
And my father? I never heard anything about the matter from him, except about the terrible destruction of Perspolis.
Yes, I know the Greeks ruined it. The ruins of Perspolis do eventually tend to give one the idea that Perspolis was ruined.
But how did they manage to capture it? Maps show that the Greeks must have kicked Persian asses across a great distance, to have reached it.
... we never quite got around to that uncomfortable subject.
I've waited in vain all my life to hear one Iranian explain it.
So at every opportunity, Iranians had some way of avoiding acknowledging that Alexander the Great was a military genius, or that the Persians sucked and that's why they were defeated.
I could not get them to talk about just how the Greeks managed to defeat their larger Persian enemy, or to even permit the focus of the topic to remain on Alexander's military prowess.
Not a single Iranian was willing to consider Alexander the Great's talents or capabilities vs. their own!
His conquest was simply an unfortunate event like a natural phenomenon - say, a hurricane - that struck Iran.
People who make up crap about Islam being the source of lying in the Middle East (the "Taghiyeh" myth) need to shut up and study this.
Islam does no such thing as promote lying, of course. But whatever tool is handy to help Iranians avoid criticism and deflect it onto something else, will do. The Iranians who cling most passionately to pre-Islamic Iran aren't the religious Muslims. The Iranians who bristle at the mention of Alexander the Great aren't doing it out of Islamic conviction. Islam might be their current favorite excuse for current Iranian failures, but they can't blame it for that one.
Long story short, I did not learn from Iranians anything about the history of their conflict with Greece, or about why they got their asses kicked by Alexander the Great.
I failed to learn from Iranians about an important conflict from one of the main chapters of their own history. They have trouble even talking about it, or acknowledging some key aspects about it, such as getting their asses kicked, and having started it.
Is this good?
Not if you are supposed to take the pronouncements of Iranian know-it-alls seriously.
... i.e. so seriously as to make life-changing decisions based on them.
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Baldrick
by amirkabear4u on Wed Nov 16, 2011 08:58 AM PSTFirst of all I am glade JK or Baldrick is learning so fast. He has learned to make civilised responses.
However I have made a second discovery about him.
He is also a TYPICAL Iranian, for the following reasons;
- He been in Iran for a short time but he THINKS he knows them all. In fact Iranians are generally less sure of themselves. It is possible his dad's family are the way he is generalising everyone.
- He THINKS he is the only one who knows all these cultural issues. For years different bloggers in different ways have expressed themselves.
- What he preaches he does not practice. i.e. he just talks.
- He contradicts himself and in my opinion this makes him more Iranian then he can imagine.
- He is complaining about everyone and everything Iranian.
Following my last point, I have a question to ask him. How perfect is his other self????????????????? Has anyone seen him mentioning it???
And one word of advice to Baldrick, fix you dad's family before they do more psychological damage to your feelings.
...
by amirkabear4u on Wed Nov 16, 2011 08:59 AM PST.....
Our identity and cultural impact....
by Mohammad Ala on Wed Nov 16, 2011 08:52 AM PSTby Iranian for Aryans on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:26 AM PST our language has been heavily bastardized …. And we have few leftover cultural celebrations such as Nowruz.
I find the above statement uninformative and insulting not just to Iranians but to other cultures in the region.As a person who has travelled to Pakistan, Tajikistan, and other countries near to Iran, I can say that 30% up to 90% of countries that border us have benefited and use Persian language. If people have NO respect for Persian culture, they should respect Afghan, Tajik and other cultures. Urdu language uses at least 30% Persian words and I can easily communicate with people from Afghanistan and Tajikistan.
I am a believer that a united element in Persian culture has been Nowruz and its impact on neighboring countries’ culture as well. You need to be in these countries to understand the impact.
I am not a history major, I learned my history by travelling and observing what is happening in the world. A year ago when I was in Toos, I met many admirers’ of Ferdowsi who had came there from as far as South Africa and Australia (NO they were not Iranians who lived in these countries)
Iranian for Aryans, although Iranian.com was created in the USA, expect comments to be posted from all over the world.... world is not where you live.
100 years, 200 years, are small numbers in comparison to 2000 or 4000 years. I admit that we have had down years in our history. Which countries have not made mistakes? I blame most of the problems which Iran has had on our internal enemies more than people who have attacked us. Iran has had its share of traitors.
I will end by a personal encounter with a British citizen in Tehran’s bazaar. Many years ago when I was in Tehran’s main Bazaar, I noticed a blond person. I said hi and greeted him. When I was at Mehrabad airport for luggage’s to be checked out, he was in front of me and I recognized him. I translated for him and he waited for me to talk (we were travelling to London.) He said…. Iranians do not realize or appreciate what they have… he had travelled to several cities including Toos and mentioned if one looks at the ground in Iran, he or she can pick up something valuable. Western museums are testimony for our stolen artifacts.
We cannot blame others for not preserving our treasures and protecting we have.... and we run away to other countries to blame all our problems on others. Many Iranians have taken refuge in other countries because of the wealth they have either legally or illegally taken out of Iran. Iran provided FREE education to many who are not willing to help it. Iranians have placed their personal interests ahead of their national interests where it lies our major downfall.
So
by BacheShirazi on Wed Nov 16, 2011 08:09 AM PSTThe Greeks conquered Iran, held Iran relativly briefly and then got defeated and pushed out by the Iranian Arsacid dynasty. Almost all countries have been conquered and have conquered other countries at some point.
It's nothing to be ashamed of. Alexander the great was an exceptional military strategist.
Mr. Ala, name one Iranian scientist who has made a difference
by Anonymous Observer on Wed Nov 16, 2011 08:19 AM PSTin people's lives in modern times. Poets, yes. We have plenty of useless poets. We are a dead poet society for sure. But name one Iran scientist--from inside Iran-- who has discovered anything of value in modern times. Those who may have done something outside of Iran don't count, as they were working under a different set of cultural values and their education, research and possible resulting discoveries were facilitated by their host countries. But please name one from inside Iran.
What identity?
by Iranian for Aryans on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:26 AM PSTMr. Ala,
The only things from the "glorious" past Iranians have are the language (heavily bastardized), sharing the same ancient geographic area, though drastically shrunk, and a few leftover cultural celebrations, such as Nowruz.
Contrary to what you wrote, Iranians have not kept their identity. I see Iranians - EVERY DAY - who resemble Indians, Mexicans, Arabs, and Mongols. How has Iran maintained its identity when it's racially different from its forbears?! The Arab conquerors called Iranians "red bearded" and "red moustached". How many Iranians nowadays have those NORTH EUROPEAN racial traits? Very few.
Iranians do NOT have the "best artists, poets, and scientists in the world." Whatever was done, was done over a millenium ago, and by Iranians who looked German, not like Rafsanjani or Ahmadinejad. The best of the best comes from NORTHERN EUROPE.
I find it funny, and oh so telling, that you did not quote an Iranian's work on the nature of civilizations, but north European's. This is yet another example of how Iranians "got their a$$es kicked" even in peaceful endeavors.
One last thing, you are oozing Iranian nationalism. Do it in Iran. This is America, land of Mr. Khalili's mother's people: White people. Why don't you show loyalty to them? Why don't you praise them? Why don't you advocate for them?
I do.
www.iranianforaryans.com
Mr. Khalili, besides being correct, you are hilarious!
by Iranian for Aryans on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:09 AM PSTI had to grab my belly as I guffawed uproariously over your analogy of crickets chirping and Iranians "zer-ing"! I swear to God, it was funny as all.
Anyway, I see that, finally, there are Iranians that are coming to the forefront and calling a spade a spade. However, and this should come as no surprise, the majority of commentators are know-it-all big-noses who keep on blabbering pretentious and defensive claptrap; e.g., Iranians have "tree-tousend years see-vee-lee-zay-sion" (and not much to show for it, really). Compare what your mother's people (north Europeans), Mr. Khalili, have done in a few hundred years of Western culture and civilization compared to Iran's 3,000, no, now it's 7,000, years of civilization! What ludicrousness.
I have still to see one Iranian here answer Mr. Khalili's statement concerning Alexander the Great's payback for Iran brazenly attacking Greece and burning the Acropolis. What's funny, given Iranians' obsession for blustering and keeping face ("aaberoo"), is that Alexander the Great, who kicked Iranian a$$, was a homosexual!
Iranians: admit that you lost horribly to the Greeks and get over your inferiority complexes. "Harchee maymoon bad gheeyaafetare, baazeesh beeshtare."
Stop blaming others!
www.iranianforaryans.com
J K
by maziar 58 on Tue Nov 15, 2011 08:02 PM PSTJk Jk J K
Babba you good
we bad o k?
bekesh biroon !
leave it to beavers man ..........
Maziar
Have's and have nots.... rich and poor...
by Mohammad Ala on Tue Nov 15, 2011 08:05 PM PSTKaveh jan.... there are different theories… in my view, the fight has been over have’s and have not’s. Iran has been attacked by both inside people and people from outside for its strategic and natural resources.... just an example, rich taking their wealth and leaving Iran.... Iran has been milked by many...
In all the problems that we have faced and you mentioned several of them, there have been people who have cared and placed Iran’s interest(s) ahead of their personal interest(s). We owe these individuals a great deal.
Mr. Ala
by Kaveh Nouraee on Tue Nov 15, 2011 07:38 PM PSTOur capabilities are of no value as long as we continue to get in our own way. And frankly, we are our own worst enemy.
I would venture to guess that history was not popular because nobody wants to learn the lesson that the past offers. This is why we continue to go around and around in circles.
Nobody has learned from 1953. Nobody has learned from 1979.
Nobody has learned from 2009. And on and on and on.
Iranians are capable people... we shall rise again.
by Mohammad Ala on Tue Nov 15, 2011 07:32 PM PSTWhen I was a student, I read a book, entitled “Rise and Fall of Civilization,” by Ernest Dale, this is an old book that libraries will have it. The trust of this book was/is that all civilizations have had rise and fall.
Almost a dozen of times you stated… “Iranians got their asses kicked …” Iranians have lived for thousands of years in Iran. We have faced many enemies and difficulties, yet we have kept our identity. Attacks from Greeks, Arabs, Mongols, among others, have hurt us, but we have always survived and have produced some of the best artists, poets, and scientists in the world. This is a proof that we are capable people and will rise again.
On the topic of history, this is not a popular major in universities so your father was correct. You can start by studying recent history and ask yourself whose asses are being kicked in our region now.
Herein Lies The Truth!
by Kaveh Nouraee on Tue Nov 15, 2011 07:29 PM PSTI have already said in another post that JK should tone down the rage. That being said, there is a ton of truth in what he is saying. Truth that we Iranians like to avoid as though it is an Olympic Sport, and we are the Gold Medal winners every time. A couple examples:
1. Andre Agassi: "Image is Everything". It's a reflection of his upbringing. Read his book.
2. The House of Sand & Fog: Col. Behrani drives a 20 year old Benz, and tells people he works for Boeing, when he is in fact working on a Caltrans road crew by day and a convenience store at night.
I've posted this in one of my very early posts, a few years ago. We are so caught up in our own self-created collective bullshit that at the end of the day the only people we are fooling is ourselves. There's a reason why we have 3,000 years worth of history and we have nothing to show for it. We have the distinction of being a nation that, in its history, has been conquered not just from outside our borders, but worse yet, from within them.
jirandoust
by JahanKhalili on Tue Nov 15, 2011 06:41 PM PSTYou don't know me.
But I can understand that you might be unable to criticize your own culture very effectively.
It might be the only thing you have, and unlike myself you may have nowhere else to turn to.
"The less justified a man is in claiming excellence for his own self, the more ready he is to claim all excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or his holy cause."
-Eric Hoffer
The Blame Game is an Iranian Game
by JahanKhalili on Tue Nov 15, 2011 06:29 PM PSTHere you are all blaming Islam, foreigners, dictatorship, Arabs and Akhunds for everything wrong with you, and I just showed you something you can't blame them for.
Now what do you have to say about it?
As usual, you can't bring yourselves to see what's in front of you, but have to pretend that I am making up things or hallucinating when I describe the stupefying effects of your own pride to you.
Professional Help
by JahanKhalili on Tue Nov 15, 2011 06:25 PM PSTIts Iranians who need professional help.
Look at you all.
Professional Help
by jirandoust on Tue Nov 15, 2011 06:23 PM PSTYour hatered of Iran and Iranians leads me to believe that the relationship between your Iranian father and American mother was a bitter one with you (and possibly your mother) blaming your father and his culture for all that gone wrong in your life. Get professional help, my young friend, get professional help!
ایرانی = همه چیز دان
JahanKhaliliTue Nov 15, 2011 06:11 PM PST
حالا خودت قرآن و احادیث را اصلا خواندی؟
JahanKhaliliTue Nov 15, 2011 06:06 PM PST
چرا در موردش حرف نداری؟
JahanKhaliliTue Nov 15, 2011 06:01 PM PST
.
by A as Abbas on Wed Nov 16, 2011 04:25 PM PST.
موضوع اصلی مقاله
JahanKhaliliTue Nov 15, 2011 04:49 PM PST
حالا بگذریم.
JahanKhaliliTue Nov 15, 2011 04:42 PM PST
شما دیگر چرا میاید بحث گمراه کننده شروع می کنید، اگر با دروغ بازی مخالفین؟
We usually strive to reveal in others the blemishes we hide in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer
تقیه
JahanKhaliliTue Nov 15, 2011 04:34 PM PST
.
by A as Abbas on Wed Nov 16, 2011 04:24 PM PST.