jimzbund

Anonymousian

I agree with you that rules are not clarified. The moderators play full power their games of deletion, on a personal interest base. True, none of my comment has never been deleted or censured (thanks God) but I saw these things happening  in front of my eyes. I, personally tried to put JJ in guard against someone who tried a scum on the site, but it seems that this didn't bother him at all ! I asked myself if JJ knows that doing scum trough a website is illegal? People could go to jail for that........anyway.

 I think the best thing is to leave the lines of communication always open. One thing I'm sure about : JJ is not an  insensitive person. I would rather to trust him and talk to him even if sometimes we have the rise to tone, but I am observing his actions on the site and believe it or not, I see a lot of positive reaction from JJ.

Kaveh, yes but this is a SERIOUS see-saw in a SERIOUS

playground.  The playground is the world.  As I stated below, due to its extraordinary prominence on Google and VAST readership WORLD-WIDE ("kharejis" are often timid about commenting but they are reading, they are here), because of this THIS WEBSITE BELONGS TO THE WORLD.

 It is NOT a limited demographic.  Silently but attentively this website is being read by British, Chinese, Kenyan, Chilean people and yes, EVEN stupid Americans like me.

(the last one wasn't for you Kaveh.  It was for my....uh....most ardent admirers here).

See Saws Are For Children, Aren't They?

I'm not saying that to mean that only kids like them, but rather that they, along with other playground equipment, are primarily designed for use and enjoyment by children.

In other words, the see-saw analogy that Rosie has referred to is very appropriate because this whole issue of what's considered to be offensive, inappropriate, or whatever other miserable excuse that's used as grounds for deletion of a post is childish.

I congratulated Jahanshah for putting this website together. He did something no one else in the Iranian community has done. Sure, there are other Iranian-themed sites out there, but they pale in comparison. I believe it when I hear about the number hits per day. It makes perfect sense.

But if this climate of deletion continues, the only thing people will be hitting is that big red button on the top right hand corner of their monitors, closing the page.

In the long run and in the big picture it's immaterial who owns the site. It's how it's readers, contributors and supporters are treated that matters, and it's the ONLY thing that matters. Ultimately the public makes or breaks a website.

Agree with an opinion? Great. Disagree? That's fine, too. Prevent people from engaging each other in dialogue?  Continue alienating your (EXTREMELY LIMITED) demographic? You'll end up on Page 10 of Google, IF you're lucky.

Real 007, no one is being blamed, Anonymousian

at least not from my standpoint.  The see-saw is just tipping in the opposite directions of the principles on which it was founded.  And everyone in the playground has the responsibilty, if they so choose, to get off the swings and monkey bars and tip it a little in the other direction.  It's a very serious playground.  Not just for the contributors.  400,000 hits a month from individual computers from all over the world.  Very high placement in google for almost every conceivable topic concerning Iran.  Sometimes as high as second.This website has a regular blogging community, and it has an owner, but ultimately this wesite belongs to the world.  And the world will help decide the future of Iran.  And the future of the world.

Anon:  This website is a for-profit venture with non-profit goals, most of whose earnings are reinvested in the website.  Jahanshaah has exclusive final say in every single deletion on this website.  As for articles published, I don't know how much he consults with his partners, but I know the vast majority of the choices are his. As for the blogs, everything is published (unless, I would assume, the content is so offensive as to defy everything that could be possibly be considered human  At least, I hope so.

A few points....

JJ is the owner of the web page. He defines the rules. If he doesn't like something, we have no options other than accepting it or move on.

JJ should clarify this, but a while back he posted pictures of a fund-raising that he had for this web-site, and a while before that Professor Ala made a comment that he had his hand in supporting and promoting this web site. Those makes me wonder if this is really a private site, a non-profit organization, or a for-profit endeavor. In the latter two cases, JJ may not have as much leverage as you assume him to have.

Having said that, we have suffered a great deal by what IRI considered inappropriate (politically incorrect) and therefore censored. It is quite bitter to face the same attitude here in the west. For example, if one comments that the author is wrong on his opinion or is not qualified to make that judgement, then censoring it is nothing but censorship. One thing that is easy to implement is to disallow use of vulgar and semi-vulgar words to begin with (easy to publish and key on) and go from there so the personal views of the moderator would not impact the decision to publish or not; although I personally would like to be at least somewhat insulting or definitely not so polite towards IRI leaders and their supporters to infer the depth of my dissatisfaction with the harm that they have brought upon iran and iranians for the past 30 years.

RealJamesBond

If you looked like Daniel Craig I might not even let you in the door!!

However, if you look like Caterina Murino (the Italian brunette who played Solange in Casino Royale), then by all means, feel free to walk naked around my house for as long as you like. I'll leave the door unlocked.

There is no real freedom

JB,

There is no such thing as real freedom. Real Freedom is only good for books. I want to know, if you allow me to come to your house and walk around totally naked? I think, that will be freedom of expression. You will not allow me to do so.
It is the same in this web page. JJ is the owner of the web page. He defines the rules. If he doesn't like something, we have no options other than accepting it or move on.

Liberty and democracy is evolution of mind. I believe, we as Iranian have a long way to go to reach such state of mind.

We still have hard time accepting someone whom not agreeing with us. It might be part of our culture to justify our actions.
I was listening to a speech on NPR with this guy ( I don't recall his name). He said, the first rule of building a productive and good society will be stop blaming others for our failures in life. He brought an example of the handicap people reach ultimate goal with keep pointing at thier abilities rather than their weeknesses.
We as Iranian are master of blaming others. We start with Arabs, British, American, Russian and now JJ is to blame for lack of freedom of speech.
Is it time for us to look at ourselves and say, I need to start the change within.
Stop Blaming, it is not productive.
Keep posting until your posting starts appearing on the web even when you can post one out of 1000. You will be contributing to change.

Sincerely

I think JJ has monopolized

I think JJ has monopolized the blog revolution in the abscence of competition. People need to open their own blogs and gradually generate traffic. It might take time, but it's worth it in the long run.

Excuse the length, Confused NM, but I have a lot to say to you

If this topic  is so boring why did you take the time to respond so meticulously?  And why are you calling me the Oracle?  I keep telling people DON'T go and GIVE YOUR INPUT to the publisher and that this site ISN"T worse than other sites but should be BETTER, because I BELIEVE in it so why are you singling me out as the oracle?  And what are you talking about, one person here wrote fifteen comments, there are only eighteen comments on this thread.  Is something wrong with your eyesight?  Have you been drinking? Yeah,  some people here CARE deeply about language and how the moderation process protects or harms communication. We even care about the fate of ONE post. You don't care about language.  Or do you not understand "fifteen"?

Change Jahanshah?  Yes, he gradually progressed from being TOTALLY against ANY moderation at a time when the posts on this site were OFTEN absolutely VICIOUS, to instituting moderation step by step more and more until the point of even CLOSING DOWN an entire thread that was the MOST discussed because in his words people shouldn't call each other IRI stooges or neo-cons.   That article had MANY MANY well-thought out lengthy posts from all sides of the political spectrum. This was a 180 degree change from his original position.  So he CHANGED, largely because of input from contributors, and he can CHANGE again because of such input to what I and many people would consider a happy medium. Change is GOOD.  Change through collective dialog is GREAT.

Now,I do MANY things that MANY people here don't like. but one thing I NEVER do and NEVER have and NEVER will on this website is WHINE.   I think carefully before I write on such topics and I ANALYZE and I WEIGH and CONSIDER.  I DON"T WHINE. 

Finally, I am NOT a goldfish.  I am a GOLDMITH.  That is my name and you can find out ALL about me if you click on the blue name Rosie T. here. You can find my full name and the city where I live, and you can even look me up at information, I am listed, and you can phone me and TALK to me and you can even get my ADDRESS from information and you can come to my door and throw a pie in face if you like. 

So that is who I am but something about who YOU are is fishy.  Are you 6really a goldfish?  Do you live in a tank?  "Cyber" or "real", WHO ARE YOU?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

O.K. I have been following the discussion and most unfortunately it looks like a lot of whining by grown men and women!

One guy writes a blog post telling everyone how JJ deleted his comment. JJ, who according to another person's implication has "changed" and transformed into a fascist and a dictator overnight, and can (and apparently does) delete ANYTHING he wantonly wishes to delete, not only doesn't delete this guy's blog post, he promotes it to the front page of the site.

People come and complain about JJ and his tyranny. Everything gets published.

One guy writes 15 new comments on this post and elsewhere, complaining about the one that was supposedly deleted, and ALL of his 15 new comments are published and none are deleted!

No conclusions are reached except by the Oracle, who after getting over her "shock" about the deletions, says: "The best way is to get together and pressure Jahanshah to change." Is that the best you can do? How about if you tell your cohorts to stop defaming people with real names when they themselves are using fictitious names? "Change Jahanshah" as a solution? That has got to be the most childish and lame thing I have ever heard! How about "change yourself" first Oracle?

I can say now that I've got it. It isn't confusing to me anymore. But it is so damn boooorrrriiingggg!

Rosie/Robin

Yes, I said she was. If you remember, I expressed it as an OPINION, based upon several factors. That also means that there is the possibility of my opinion being proven to the contrary, as well as the possibility that she holds her readers in contempt. That hopefully clarifies why I described it the way I did in this thread.

But, no, there was nothing wrong with my post. Based upon whatever the rationale of that moment was, the original blog posting should be deleted, as the data contained therein is being sold as cold, hard facts. To a presidential nominee, no less.

Perhaps a reader controlled rating system similar to what you find on YouTube would be in order. There can be icons that a reader may click to indicate whether or not they think it's a good or bad comment. (Something other than the "thumbs up" sign of course). I doubt that YouTube's system is proprietary, so it can be phased in here. Even if it is, something similar can easily be set up.

But it doesn't make a difference if this site is becoming the cyberspace outpost for only one side of any given issue.

Iva, NO.....just GET ON THE SEE-SAW AND TIP IT BACK

The best way is to get together and pressure Jahanshah to change.  He has shown himself to be VERY capable of changing.  If people leave for other websites they will find more extreme moderation, and singleness of focus (especially politically) and in most cases a smaller readership (this site has 400,000 hits from INDIVIDUAL computers each month).  That is the best way to proceed.  Stop just moaning and groaning and get together to persuade the owner to change things.  He IS the owner, it IS his, and whether you like it or not he has the RIGHT to do WHATEVER he wants here.  And he DOESN'T realize how far he's gone, he's swimming like a goldfish between his previous idieology of absolute freedom of speech and the need for moderation and standards, and has tipped the see-saw over to the otherr side.  So get on the see-saw and tip it back.  I mean, come on, people, JUST WHO FEATURED THIS BLOG ANYWAY? 

JJ's way or highway

Many of my comments are not posted and on occassions parts of it are deleted (censored) before it is posted.

So, JJ has said it many times, "it's my web site ... so, it's my way or highway".

I guess if we don't like to be censored then there two options: Say praises to IRI/khomeini OR don't post anything.

Deletions /Sarzamine

I am shocked about the deletion yesterday of Kaveh's reply to me on Soraya's blog with my reply to him.  As I said on that thread when I discovered the deletion, I found NOTHING inappropriate aboujt it and if I had, I would've deleted it myself (because I still have moderator's privileges).  I really think the situation is getting way out of hand.  But Kaveh you said here you'd said Soraya is POSSIBLY contemptuous of her readership.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you said she WAS.  There's nothing WRONG with that, though, it's FINE.  And Sarzamine says 7 out of 10 posts are being deleted.  Of COURSE that's not true.

I suggest people stick to this website and get togehter to get Jahanshah to change the "policiy".  (Or non-policy).  HE has CERTAINLY shown himself capable of changing in the last couple of months.  And exaggerating things WON'T help.  It always undermines your position with the person you're approaching, if they know what you say is not completely true.

QUICK!! BEFORE THIS WHOLE BLOG GETS DELETED!!

It has become very obvious that posts are being deleted as a matter of personal spite.

For example, the person who posts under the name "John Carpenter", who also posts under several other aliases, may spread lies and misinformation, but I get deleted when I expose the lies. Or, Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich may post whaever she wishes with complete impunity as well as immunity. She can never be criticized, because critical responses are deleted. She never answers to anyone's responses here, anyway, but when I mentioned that she doesn't and that I see it as a possible sign of contempt or disrespect by her,..........POOF!

It bears noting that NONE of my posts that were deleted in recent weeks contained the use of any "adult" language, nor did they contain either threats or abuse.

In one post, I even declared that Barack Obama is indeed a very likable candidate, but I also said I won't vote for him in November.

Guess where that post went? Same place the Michigan and Florida votes went..............in the trash.

I'm talking with a business colleague to explore possible solutions to this childish nonsense on the part of a small number of people who are obviously afraid of truly free expression, not to mention, the real and honest truth.

Boring

7 out of my 10 comments are getting deleted in this website, I never use profanity in my comments, I am 100% sure that it is my opinion that gets deleted. Unfortunately it is this kind of action and behavior that separate us from the first world countries. The solution is that we must not rely only on this website, we should make new websites everyday and have all Iranians come and express their opinion, this is very important as Iranian inside of Iran do not have better sources, newspapers, TV, radio, school and everywhere else is just propaganda for the rejim and Islam and our people will never know the truth, so our responsibility out side of Iran is to use our freedom to its fullest and do ROSHANGARY everyday so people of Iran can know the truth.

Advice on Getting a life

And this from a Goldfish???

"Hey Jimzbund poorow, get a life.

Be a person enough to use your real name and show us your face..."

That aint right.

Get a life . . .

Hey Jimzbund poorow, get a life. You bacheh poorow, keep posting as if this is your personal site. You have had more than anybody to express your view(s).

Be a person enough to use your real name and show us your face; then write your own articles.

Stop complaining like a bacheh naneh. I am getting tired of you and likes of you on this site.

Not new...

JJ has been self-recruited by Vezarate-Ershad, doing Amre-be-marouf va Nahy-az-monkar. LOL!

Rosie...

Welcome back lady! I am sorry if guys offended you and pushed you away. You should develop a thick skin around here. I've read your articles before "quietly".

I just wanted to say hello to you in this last comment of mine, as the hypocrites deleted 3 of my messages today, so I will not post any more.

Others: does anyone know any other site, mainly showing iran-related news so I can boycott this site altogether?

Jimz

Remember JJ started as an IRI supporter in the 70s and now he is going back to his roots, taking a lesson from IRI book: the hypocrisy, claiming non-sacredness and censoring at the same time. Some of us never learn from results of past experiences! I only hope that these islamists-when-it-suits never get a chance to run iran when the regime falls.

to jimz

I understood what you were trying to say.

Arbitrary deletions...

Dear Jimz, you must remember that every human decision is in some sense arbitrary.  It cannot be otherwise.

Having said that I do think the site is tilting a bit toward the opposite side of the see-saw of what is legitimate discourse in free speech and what is not.  And I find the choice of moderators to be at times questionable.  I would choose very differently but that is....arbitrary...to some extent.  I have voiced these concerns to the publisher.

And yes it's true, you could be a bit clearer in your blog, but I understood you fine.

The rant

Sorry guys,

 it was about my reply to apost by Sorayya Sephpour-Ulrich which was deleted for being a personal attack which I don't believe it was. It seems that it is upto some individuals who do decide what is personal attack and whst is not arbitrarily. There were some rants from some other posters too and I thought I write my rants in my blog. I didn't want to make a big issue of it so wrote it for the people who do the deletions.  

Bund, Jimz Bund

Keep your fingers & toes crossed

Apparently you have not lived under the blessed Islamist Republic rule or you would have been inoculated and immuned to this sort of double standards. Although in the Islamist Republic it is the rule to have their hired hands spewing all kinds of lies and loutish insults against their Islamist opponents with impunity, it is still not that bad here in this forum. Keep your fingers & toes crossed that it gets better soon for it is a shame to use Islamist Republic as a role model and ruin such a lively Iranian.com of not that recent past.

What? What?

What's going on? What's this all about? Please elaborate so we know what you're talking about,

OR

If this is a "post of protest" for JJ only because he did something to you (delete? delete what?), why don't you just write him a letter?

It is sooooo boring to be reading people's bickerings here. Why would this post be featured? (by whom? by JJ? Why? "Featured" must mean something special, no?) I can't make sense of any of it.