The Lotus

Kaveh, you are the kind of person who laughs

at a time like this?

At least niloufar is doing something about Israel's inhuman war on civilians.

BOYCOTT NOW
//www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html

i see that you've moved on

i see that you've moved on to another post. i wish you would conclude this one first. you didn't answer my questions at all. you cut and paste and ramble on. i asked very specific questions. i've gone to your NEW post and asked them there as well. please read carefully because i'm not asking about iraq or palestines. i'm asking you very specific questions and your avoiding them.

what did hemingway say? something about "does he really think big emotions come from big words?".

just keep it simple, ok...:-)

Niloufar

We're not discussing Chinese cookies. But apparently you've had deep philosophical epiphanies from the sayings found in them.

Either that, or too much MSG.

Poor girl. You can't tell the difference between when someone is laughing with you or when they're laughing at you.

By the way.....You said I was boring you. So why are you still responding?

laugh?

glad you enjoyed it. what happened? u didn't have ANY idea what to say anymore? we are discussing chinese cookies now?

Thanks for the laugh

"if enough people join in to take just one single cup of water each out of a lake, the lake will run dry."

I really had no idea that you write for a Chinese fortune cookie company.

Anonymous fishie: on sanctions against Iran

i didn't answer your last question (coz i has missed it): "what is your position on sanctions against iran? i'm very interested in hearing your take on that!"

I had addressed this earlier in response to Q's comment. It was there at the bottom of the same page you were writing on, but you obviously did not have the time to go through the various earlier arguments, and you chose to concentrate on Kaveh's games instead. Basically, may argument is that a global civil society boycott of a regime is a completely different category, and it achieves results without necessarily causing undue pain to civilians. and you have to ask: when it comes to 'civilians' in this case, are we talking about the majority who are palestinians and already suffering (like the blacks of south africa) or the israelis (like the whites of south africa) all of whom, btw, are at some level associated with the military? that's a side issue, however.

Here is the same text cut and pasted:

sanctions imposed by the military might of hegemonic powers through their hypocritical 'international' institutions are a million miles away from a globally popular civil society boycott of goods from a rouge apartheid state that has enraged the whole world. you would know that the world was against iran if ordinary people everywhere decided to shun all its products.

we have a historical parrallel in the case of south africa where 90% of the local population engaged in the resistance encouraged a globally popular boycott of south african goods knowing that it would hurt the victims of apartheid first. in fact, i am not aware of any real damage to the whites in south africa as a result of the sanctions. on the contrary, as soon as they realised that their game was up, they totally changed their tact, and even shared the nobel peace prize with nelson mandela.

i do not really think that palestinians would be against a global boycott of israeli products. quite the contrary, they would prefer the whole system to collapse, knowing the initial pain involved. the pain for israeli citizens would be far less per the south african case. all that would happen is that the conciliatory side of them would be a little encouraged, 'doves' would suddenly emerge from among them with some influence, and there would be a speedy end to the affair.

this is nothing like US imposed sanctions on iraq killing off half a million iraqi children over 13 years followed by a mass slaughter starting on new year's eve in 2003 and continuing until this very day.

and it also nothing like a corrupt security council imposing sanctions on iran over a nuclear issue that is trumpeted up in contravention of the NPT. the whole world can see its emptiness apart from a couple of rouge states engaged in regional mass slaughter.

it's very simple

it's very simple: if enough people join in to take just one sinlge cup of water each out of a lake, the lake will run dry.

If you apply a simple rule of economics, demand and supply, all you need to do in order to break the back of the israeli economy is to apply enough pressure by enough people to reduce demand critically. this way, we do not have to 'throw away' anything. we just have to create a critical mass in lowering demand.

the number of people in the world fully supportive of such an idea is SO large, that the minority of zionists have NO chance if an international boycott is applied. as it happens, the financial crisis is also on our side in this. ALL global companies are vulnerable. it would just take a little nudge to tip the israeli economy over.

Peace! 

the point that kaveh is trying to make

and one which niloufar either doesn't get or doesn't want to admit to is very simple. when you come in here and cry out for sympathy for the pals and ask the world for a boycott against isreal, your making a formal declaration of your stand against isreal. this "stand" for human rights is pointless if you selectively decide how far your going to go with it. if you simply "dont buy anything from israel", it's meaningless. if you are serious, then you go all the way. and it's obvious that niloufar isn't going to put her money where her mouth is. she just wants to make a "profound" statement against israel but isn't willing to admit how flimsy it is.

yes. if you want to walk the walk AND talk the talk, you DO get rid of anything that is so offensively jewish.

niloufar says "you are missing the point: boytcotting products is not the same as throwing out your possessions! it's about how we shop from now on".

your right. it isn't the same thing. YOUR idea of a boycott is simply hot air and MEANS NOTHING. having principles DOES mean you throw out those disgusting items of everyday use. those disgusting items of jewish engineering. DO quit using a bank and the internet. because if you don't, your protestations are useless.

these petitions that float around. worth less than nothing. makes YOU feel good but doesn't really mean jack shit to the powers that be. and before anyone gets all riled up, that is not necessarily inclusive of all petitions. some ARE worthy and DO actually make a difference.

but these calls for boycotting israel. it's a joke. it has nothing to do with human rights.

and anyone who only partially makes a stand is more a hypocrite then those who don't.

what is your position on sanctions against iran? i'm very interested in hearing your take on that!

a boycott israel petition site for americans

//www.thepetitionsite.com/1/boycott-israel 

Peace!

How many times

are you gonna call me out you boring man?

and i don't recall calling you in here to 'pay me attention'!

Niloufar

If that's what you want to believe, so be it.

Through your words, you have proven that you only believe in bits and pieces. And you know what? That's fine, too. There's nothing wrong with that, so long as you're at least honest about it. At least have the maturity and the guts to admit to it.

If I truly bore you, then you wouldn't keep this electronic volleying going. The truth is, you relish the attention, but lack the ability to differentiate between positive and negative attention.

Teaching you? That's not my job. You had the opportunity to learn while in school. What you did with that opportunity is hardly my problem. I'm just calling you out on your sincerity and commitment to what you are saying. What you take from it is what you take from it. Hateful? No. I'm not hateful. I just don't suffer fools, and when someone tries to bullshit me, I don't roll over. I'm not your friend, but at least I'm honest with you.

The only thing condescending is your incessant babble, indicative of someone who lacks even a rudimentary knowledge of economic functions, while attempting to come across as righteous, when in fact all you are is vaccuous.

Trust me when I tell you that I will not lose a moment's rest whether you take me seriously or not. You take yourself much too seriously. And whether anyone else takes me seriously is none of your business. No one elected you to be the gauge of who or what should be taken seriously. Speak for yourself, if you can.

kaveh

whether you like it or not, i believe in boycotting israel. i believe in it like it is the duty of all those who believe in human rights.

you don't? good for you. what are you doing here? don't you have something better to do with your time than insult my 'beliefs' as you erroneously describe it? what is this about exactly? your language betrays a hateful and condescending attitude toward me, and i don't know where it's coming from. either come clean and have a useful, friendly conversation or give up because you bore me and you show nothing impressive or positive in your 'contributions'. even if you honestly believe that there is something important you can teach me, then grow up a bit, change your style, and be respectful or else know that i will not take you seriously. no one would.

Niloufar

When are you going to face up to the fact that you are simply out of your league?

The only belief I'm talking about here is the belief in the boycott.

I never claimed that you said you don't believe in possessing material possessions. Learn to read.

I said you are unwilling to forgo the possessions that bear a link to Israel in order to prove the depth of your convictions in your argument.

What does Israel produce? Cut diamonds, textiles, apparel, farming and military equipment, computer software, and food items.

But your moronic boycott includes American and European companies that have Jews in management positions or who have donated to Jewish causes, or have done business in or with Israel.

So again, stop cherry-picking specific issues of a point in some vain attempt to bolster an already stillborn argument.

the Brits are petitioning their government to boycott israel

if you are british, can sign here:

Peace!

kaveh

so we are discussig beliefs? I did say that we should not buy israeli goods in order to achieve a political agenda. a process that starts with finding out what israel produces and then boycotting them.

however, tell me, when did i say that i do not Believe In possessing material possessions? 

and btw, you make it sound like israel produces everything on earth. medication is it?as it happens, israel is highly dependent on trade and is very easy to hurt economically if people took more notice of the issue.

Niloufar

Once again, you are wrong. At least you're consistent.

I'm not confusing anything, lady. What I am doing is seeing right through your bull and calling you on it. 

But your combined arrogance and ignorance prevents you from seeing it yourself.

I read crap like yours and I laugh. I wonder how on earth did you ever make it through school. I wonder how are you able to even hold a job with such a profound absence of common sense.

And to answer you, no I'm not on any drugs, but being properly medicated will do you a world of good.

Spiritual denounciation of material possessions? No, it's called having a belief, it's called taking a stand. That's how you make a difference.

You don't want to support companies that have ties to Israel? You already have. And every time you get up in the morning, every time you eat, drink, get dressed, put on your makeup, pump gas in your car, you are in one way shape or form continuing that support, whether it is of a person, group or company with ties to Israel, whether in the first degree or in the millionth degree.

You are so unbelievably full of yourself that you can't see straight.

What possible difference can you even hallucinate you will make if you already have an adequate supply of products from this list of boycotted companies?

By the time you begin to run low on anything from this list of companies, it will all be over.

And what will be the first thing you will do when that happens?

You're going to go shopping.

kaveh

once more: you are confusing an economic boycott of an apartheid state with a spiritual denounciation of material possessions. i am not a darvish and i was not askig anyone to become one. are you on drugs?

drink a cool glass of water, take a deep breath, and try to focus again. not living with material possessions and being 'successful' in getting rich are not the issues we are discussing here. they are a million miles away from fighting racism and apartheid through a peaceful boycott of products from that country. and history shows that it can work, but go ahead and pull your hair out if you want.

Niloufar

Not only have I answered your simple question, I have also exposed the fact that you are not willing to do what it takes to make a stand when pressed.

Your lust for attention has blinded you, lady. Intelligent campaign? Oh, puh-leeze. These companies, their CEOS and other execs didn't get to where they are by riding your coat-tails or looking to you for lessons in corporate morals or ethics.

The idea is not for you to be poorer? Why don't you grow up? Just admit that you cannot do without these items. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you don't want to admit that you are no better than anyone else. What are you afraid of? Being human?

You were involved in a real boycott against apartheid? Big Deal! You want a medal? How about we call make a three-way call to the Pope so he will come and declare you a saint?

You want to make a difference?

Give some of your money and possessions to a Palestinian family who needs it more than you do.

Give them some of your clothes that you don't wear anymore, and from family members, too.

Donate blood to the Red Cross to be used to transfused into Palestinian civilians who have been injured.

Adopt a Palestinian orphan.

You think Starbucks gives a damn if you stop buying Venti Macchiatos? You think Bill Gates is going to lose sleep because you refuse to buy the latest Microsoft software? You think Victoria's Secret is going to go out of business because you wont buy any more panties?

Get over yourself.

kaveh jan

thanks for the circular arguments.

You still have not answered my simple question. how on earth does it make any difference to thrown one's possessions away in a bid to boycott an apartheid state?

unlike you and your verbal self-obsession, i was in fact involved in a real boycott campaign against apartheid. i know how these things are organized first hand. nowhere was there any mention of losing one's existing possessions in any intelligent campaign that is meant to target an abusive regime. it is simple: the aim is to dislodge a racist regime, not to make oneself poorer. you are confusing mysticism with a political campaign.

for the last time, answer my simple question. why would i make myself weaker instead of focusing on weakening my target? what is the gain in it? explain the logic rather than talking about Gandhi's loincloth.

Peace!

Niloufar

You already answered your own question. But since you still can't see through your own exaggerated sense of self, here goes.

You are under the impression that you are actually affecting these entities that you call to boycotted. You're not affecting them at all, except for perhaps drawing more attention to the respective brands, which in turn, generates more revenue.

You are also under the impression that you are taking some kind of moral high road with this boycott, but again, you are mistaken.

Every keystroke on your computer, every page that turns or pops up, every time you use your cell phone, every time you turn on your car, you are using the products and services from these very companies that you want everyone to boycott because they are accessories to the Jews.

If you want to truly be on that moral high ground, don't cherry-pick the parts of this "war on immorality" you're declaring in order to prevent or minimize being inconvenienced.

It's time to put up or shut up.

If you really, truly, honestly believe in this, then set the example and stop using all of those products you already have. Give them away. Get rid of everything you have and or use that have even the slightest, weakest, most indirect ties to Israel. Then, and only then, can you be considered credible in your stated position.

Anything less, and you're nothing but talk.

Anonymous fish, kaveh

had your little trip? was it fun?

now pls answer my question. 

Peace!

Anon Fish

put your money where your mouth is ..... is 100% right.

They won't though. I call it the "Bucket Complex", after the British TV show "Keeping Up Appearances".

put your money where your mouth is

and believe me. no one is going to do it. niloufar will talk that big bad trash talk but is she or anyone else willing to DO anything?

hell no.

so what that's it already paid for. if you really REALLY are so concerned, get rid of "what is already paid for". you think that just FUTURE boycotting is effective. no. it isn't. and your just a hyprocrite to even suggest it.

making sacrifices? you must be kidding. it is so much easier AND fun to rile up hatred online!!! i can do it with NO responsibility!! how cool is that!

and then i end my blogs with the word "peace".

SHAME ON YOU.

No explanation necessary

You have just proven that you yourself don't even buy into the smoke your blowing.

kaveh jan

since my current possessions are already paid for, how does it possibly inflict an economic impact on the targeted country if i throw them out? pls explain.

Peace!

Au contraire

I'm not confused at all. I am very clear on this. If there is anybody who may be confused, it would be you. Because you are "talking the talk", but you aren't "walking the walk".

The point is that if you are going to make a point as you are so feebly looking to do, you have to be willing to make a sacrifice to ensure not only that your point is made, but that you do so credibly.

What difference can a boycott possibly make if you already have their products to begin with and continue to use what you have that happens to be on the boycott list?

When you do that, your words, and the call to boycott is empty, meaningless BS.

When Gandhi urged Indians to boycott British goods, he got rid of all of his British tailored clothes that he owned and wore only homespun cloth, for example. That's an example of credibility.

When that criminal Khomeini went back to Iran, cursing the U.S., the West and everything about them, he flew in on a Boeing 747 made in Seattle and was picked up and driven through Tehran in a Chevy Blazer.

That, like your boycott, is an example of Iranian bull.

Thanks, I will look at the

Thanks, I will look at the links. Boycott Israel NOW!!!
Best,
Mozhgan

kaveh jan, confused?

you are missing the point: boytcotting products is not the same as throwing out your possessions! it's about how we shop from now on. 

glad to see you laugh. please keep on listing the products for us.

great pic btw...

Peace!

This is bordering on the idiotic

Zionists are starting to panic.

Pardon me while I laugh. I honestly don't know what is funnier. The statement itself or the fact that someone actually believes that nonsense.

In reality, the majority of people here have no earthly idea what a Zionist is, and think by using the word in the derogatory manner with which it is used throughout this website, that you somehow are effecting a change.

Do you really want to "boycott Israel"?

Then boycott these companies:

Google, Yahoo, Dell Computers, Oracle Systems, Qualcomm, Real Networks, Seagate (disk drive manufacturers), Cisco Systems, Microsoft, NetZero, Nortel, Lotus Development, PayPal.....

These companies were founded by, are run and managed by, are majority-owned by Jewish people with ties to Israel.

Show your support for this boycott by shuttiing down your computers, your cell phones, and your PDAs.

I urge you to boycott these companies, so that the rest of the civilized world will no longer be subject to the incessant nonsense rantings coming from you bigoted anti-Semites.

Mozhgan jan

great to hear that. good for you guys. there is far too much pessimism in this place. people should realise how much power they possess on an individual level when they visit their malls... from what i can gather, zionists are starting to panic. see the link in ghalam-doon's comment just below. he sees that as zionists showing their power. i see it as them panicking, and btw, it is a great info source for exactly what types of products you guys in the US can boycott. 

Peace!