The Lotus

Midwesty

Natural or not, we could not use that as a tool.

But those are two separate issues. Let us keep them that way. The Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories is not OUR problem.

only iran

Thanks for correcting. I revised it before you had a chance to air it. By the way sholeh ghalam kar is my favorite. May I ask how much grease you are intnending to load it with?

well Dr. X jan,

Influence can't be exerted. If it does it's called occupation. Iran's influence comes natural.

OnlyIran

Sorry. I meant to address you in my last post.

I agree. even though i still think that our fellow ICers here can control their feelings:))

FYI "Midwesty"

it's "analytical", not "analatical".  And for dinner tonight we have "sholleh ghalamkar".  It goes well with your arguments and debate style.

Midwesty and Onlyiran

Midwesty

I am not disputing those hardcore facts. Point i am making here, Iran can not exert any influence on any nation, based on these facts, if that is not welcomed, so therefore, we can not accuse other countries, regardless of their imminent record of various atrocities, as stepping on our toes in the region. That is so unreal and such a fantasy. The moment that the question becomes that of which Country has or should have more influence (based on any factor including its history) that country is asking for a confrontation.

Only Iran,

I thank you for your usual analytical contribution! So what's for dinner dear? ;o) baba shoma karet kheili bahaleh...tazeh ma kolli seriouse shodeh bodeem! Tnx!

X Jaan - Baba veleshoon kon

this is a gimmick that they have used for the past 31 years.  You can talk about a broken toilet in Rasht and they will connect it to Israel and call you a "Zionist" (as if they even understand the definition of the word and are not using it as a polite substitute to hide their New World Antisemitism). It's the gift that gives on giving for them.  It's the ultimate red herring for the IRI and its supporters.  Sometimes I don't know what describes it best: are these people actually living in their own bubble, doing battle with Israel in their heads day and night or is it just a red herring that they like to throw at others to divert attention and torpedo any discussion of IRI's atrocities, incompetence and dictatorship.

PS- Do you really think that the IRI and its supporters really want Israel "wiped off the map", or do they really want peace and statehood for Palestinians?  Think about it, what would they say and do if that happens?   

Dr. X

At least 5000 years of history and the ancient territorial boders from south of France to the East of India, shared language, culture, literature, arts, religion, and ethnicity are the hardcore facts. In addition, the gradual shrinkage of Iran unlike other regional powers which were removed abruptly and are non-existing today is another hard fact that Iran's influence has never been absent.

Midwesty

Iran is OVER-DEFINING matters to the point that we have created our own enemies/foes out of those who were once friends.

There would never have been any Stepping on iran's toes, had there not been Verbal invectives.  It is Israeil's citizens who are purchasing gas masks not the other way around.

Midwesty

WHAT???

Are you for real? You sound like an official in a government planning a strategic invasion against Israel!

IRI is not defining anything??? Every single country in that region has its own rights and it would totally absurd to even go where you have gone. This is like marking your territory (as a superpower would do, rightfully or not) and the stand watch making sure no one gets close. That is THE recepie for seeking first degree trouble.

Iran does not have the right to have a bigger proxy than any country in the region, neither does israel.

You are fanning the flames of confrontation and hostility.

LOL!

Is that a fact?

Accusing a country of Purposefully Hindering another country's development based on threats, in the absence of Absolute and irrefutable proof, is a very serious charge.

I wonder Most iranians are  aware of that also-basic reality as well.

NP, Amir and Dr. X

To second your comment NP, the threat of Israel for Iran is not by the definition. IRI is not defining anything. Iran's proxy in the region is so large that makes it impossible to walk in that region without stepping on Iran's toes. So the threat of Israel is imprative to Iran not by design but by nature.

israel is a threat

to iran. it has to be kept under control because it purposefully hinders iran's development. most iranians would understand this basic reality.

Midwesty

Who do you think is responsible for all the iranians being killed in such proxy wars? The iranians themselves? do they play a role in this? or are they being ideologically misguided and misled?

Why does the responsibility of "being in this mess" is place squarely on israel shoulders?

Midwesty

But I believe there are more Iranians killed by Israelis in a proxy war with Israel than Israelis killed by Iranians in the same proxy.   Thanks for your response. I understand what you are saying, but at the very least your statement above is debatable. Israel is accused of helping PEJAK, and IRI of helping Hamas and Hezbollah. The conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and the Palestinians has taken more lives (mostly Palestinians) than that between IRI and various Kurdish groups (Pejak, Komoleh, etc). I don't support any of these regimes or organizations: IRI, Israel, Pejak, Hezbollah or Hamas. But, there's no reason for Iran and Israel to be in conflict. Israel does not occupy one inch of Iranian land. The conflict between Israel and the Arabs is not Iran's fight. In fact, Iran is a major target of Arab nationalism (Jamal Abdul-Nasser claimed Khuzestan as Arab land and called it "Arabistan"; and of course, we know about Baathism) and Sunni Islamism--both have a strong tendency towards anti-Iranian and anti-Shia sentiment. In my opinion, let the Arabs and Israelis sort out their own mess; Iran should stay out of it rather than seeking conflict with Israel.

Amir

I agree with you on your take on human right violations in Iran. There are more Iranians killed by Iranians than killed by Israelis. I even go further and say, we should learn from the Israelis on how to treat our owns.
But I believe there are more Iranians killed by Israelis in a proxy war with Israel than Israelis killed by Iranians in the same proxy.

Midwesty: Okay, we can agree that Israel is bad

Agreed. I have no problem saying that Israel commits injustices against the Palestinians. But one question: how many Iranians has Israel killed, assaulted, whipped, humiliated or imprisoned since its birth and how many has the IRI killed since its birth? As far as I know Israel has not killed any Iranians (or perhaps a few, but I can't say for sure). Does that fact matter to you?

..

I'm not an English Teacher; But dble.standard by definition applies more RIGHTLY to all those supporters of an backward mentality talking loudly from a clear ,open and FREE  societies.

It almost looks like trying to do 70 MPH on a flat tires so to speak.

sorry for using an un educated example to send my message across BUT that is TRUE .

Maziar

There is no...

fundamentalist regime more fundamental than the Zionist regime pursuing a 3000-year old dream that makes a nightmare for rest of us in the present day!

Praising a fundamentalist ayatollah

Many of us left IRI because Islamists made such a nightmarish mess of our country. And here certain individuals are living in Sheytan-e Bozorg or Sheytan-e Koochik applauding someone who praised a dead fundamentalist ayatollah. Why?

I don't know, but maybe more people in Western media should just say: "Dorood bar Emam Khomeini" as a demonstration of their courage. I imagine there would be people on IC applauding folks for saying that too.

On the second thought...

It is highly possible that she committed career suicide in order to raise awareness and possibly took a personal fight against those double standards.

If that's the case I salute her!

Honestly...

I think what she has said from the CNN perspective was wrong, AIPAC-biased or not. Wolf Blitzer is smart enough not to fall into these pitfalls otherwise he has enough enemy that could rip him apart right on the spot.

The burden is always on one's action not the environment's reaction.

Rosie

I think I get it: "royalties" vs "royalty". That's pretty clever. Jews are usually pretty funny (I know it's a stereotype), so that might explain your wit  :-)

'Since I was the first person on IC ...

who used the term Groupie...I think you owe me some royalties for use of the term. 

You will have to get the royalties from Kadivar.

Of course you could always try Ben but I have a feeling Darius is an easier 'touch'.

Molla

Since I was the first person on IC who used the term "Groupie" to refer to the goons that support the IRI, I think you owe me some royalties for use of the term  :-)

Second of all, other than your fellow Islamist hoodlums, no one is fooled by your anti-American and Joo-hating politics  .-)

And the reactions from

two Zionists groupies on this site.

thanks mola

i see we have 'blind hate' in pursuit! :)

Molla

West-residing IRI Groupie applauds another West-residing Islamist:

Another example of the Zionist occupied US media

Molla, the Jooz control of America goes deeper. Much deeper:  :-) 

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Go...

Another example of the Zionist occupied US media

Good report, thanks Niloufar.