Observing Iran

Hurting the cause???

No fear

are you living in the la la land? What cause is there left ? There is a major take over, a land slide, a tsunami of those who belive and are satisfied with the system as it is set up. That To them is the cause and they are guarding it with their lives. So what is this Sham buisness you have got going here, trying to put the blame on others for not being True nationalists?

You Rigthists! are certainly living in dreamy world. Your support of Yaraneh system, Your defense of a solution out of a sense of compromise. The more BS you hear the more excited you get as if the outcome will finally be an independent of Ajnabees Iran,

Having read it for the second time

No point in blaming so and so. It's all past, finished.

The question is rather: where do you go from here ?

Hoshang Jan

Thanks for the link very interesting. I admit I was being facetious in my response to "No Fear". Yes I agree it is relevant today.  

A few things:

• I am one of those "radicals" who sneer at the Athenian democracy because of slavery!
• The Swiss system allows for direct vote. I find that somewhat similar to Athens.
• The writer is definitely "pro" Athenian :-)

Mullahs, anti-women

Full stop.

Ancient Greece was a bit more sophisticated than you might think

with different phases, belief systems,... Here's a very good, short introductory essay on their democracy and why it's still relevant today.

//www.marxists.org/archive/james-clr/works/1956/06/every-cook.htm

Fever is all yours. If you had the vaguest idea just how much of

your Islam is based on Judaism and their "holy" book. Your "islam" also  inherits that embedded, institutionalized violence ( as described below) in all those "holy" scriptures.

Not only your clownish, you're also lazy. The idea of mentioning those names is: for YOU to read about them and find out what they each did in their lives.

I'll just mention one dimension of one of these giants of Iran:

rafigh Hamid Ashraf, back in the late 60's and early 70's when your mullah buddies were looking for sorakh mosh to hide away from SAVAK, it was Hamid that maintained the presence of struggle for freedom and equality in Iran, ( at one point single handedly breaking through a circle of 30 to 40 armed security forces thugs).

Most importantly you keep avoiding my simple question: your picture sake, has stolen an election, defied Iranian popular will, and set up places like KAH'RIZAK to make sure his campaign is very smooth. Does that make him at least a common criminal, or worse?

Re: Ancient Athens

So they were primitie; what is your excuse?

I thought the Islamists wanted to take us back to the 6th century. Now I note they want to go back to the BC times!

PS:

Ancient Athens also had slavery. One more common thing with Islam huh? No thanks, I will settle for a modern secular system. We learned a few things in 3000 years.

Targol,

And all these people that you have named as leaders of the left movement, what have they accomplished?  How did they affect our history? Any results?

In regards to political Islam, you can draw lines all the way back to the Safavi era if you wish which in itself is testament to the deep roots of political islam in our history . But the fact remain that the winning formula for Political Islam to become a dominant force was when " Leftist " solutions were introduced and merged to creat a revolutionary brand of Islam.

Besides, stop being the real clown by posting passeges from the hebrew bible.  Whats the relevance?  Do you have a fever?

جوان پرادعای پراز ترس و واههه،مانند همیشه:دلقکی ناچیز، با دهانی

  نا پاک         

You still haven't answered the question of why your picture sake is at best a common criminal that has defied people's will, stole a national election and established matrial-law state in Iran?Somewhere you had  mentioned a smooth campagin, was Kahrizak also a part of that smoothness?

The Left in Iran or anywhere else for that fact is simply beyond your cognition, but if you're so curious you could start with Haidar Om"Oghloy, and work your way up to Taghi Arani, Khalil Maleki, Amir Parviz Poyan, Hamid Ashraf, Bijan Jazani, Ashraf Dehghan,..

Your total ignorance of 'political Islam' is another indication why you shall always remain a clueless clown. As a 'moslem' you must have heard of Sayed Jalaledin Asad Abady , and yes political islam in Iran does start with him. Shariati was a  psuedo-academician who hadn't even finished his studies in France  ( had not yet obtained  high degree) his confused writings are more influenced by Fardid ( now you and Fardid have at least one thing in commom: you're both clowns).

As far as non-tolerance and violence is concerned, just read these passages from the basis of your "holy" book:

کتاب اول سموئیل
باب پانزدهم

3 – پس الان برو و عمالیق را شکست داده جمیع مایملک ایشانرا بالکل نابود ساز و برایشان شفقت مفرما بلکه مرد و زن و طفل و شیرخواره و گاو و گوسفند و شتر و الاغ را بکش.

8 – و اجاج پادشاه عمالقه را  زنده گرفت و تمامی خلق را بدم شمشیر بالکل هلاک ساخت.

9 – و اما شاول و قوم، اجاج را و بهترین گوسفندان و گاوان پرواری و بره ها و هرچیز خوب را دریغ نموده نخواستند آنها را هلاک سازند لیکن هر چیز بی قیمت را بالکل نابود ساختند

19 – پس چرا قول خداوند را نشنیدی بلکه بر غنیمت هجوم آورده آنچه را که در نظر خداوند بد است عمل نمودی.
20 – شاول به سموئیل گفت قول خداوند را استماع نمودم و براهیکه خداوند مرا فرستاد رفتم و اجاج پادشاه عمالقه را آوردم و عمالقه رابالکل هلاک ساختم.
21 – اما قوم از غنیمت گوسفندان و گاوان بهترین آنچه که حرام شده بود گرفتند تا برای یهوه خدایت در جلجال قربانی بگذرانند.
22 – سموئیل گفت آیا خداوند بقربانیان سوختنی و ذبایح خشنود است یا باطاعت فرمان خداوند اینک اطاعت از قربانیها و گوش گرفتن از پیه قوچ ها نیکوتر است.
23 – زیرا که تمرد مثل گناه جادوگری است و گردن کشی مثل بت پرستی و ترافیم است چونکه کلام خداوند را ترک کردی او نیز ترا از سلطنت رد نمود

33 – و سموئیل گفت چنانکه شمشیر تو زنان را بی اولاد کرده است همچنین مادر تو از میان زنان بی اولاد خواهد شد و سموئیل اجاج را بحضور خداوند در جلجال پاره پاره کرد.

این باب در همین جا به پایان میرسد ولی باب های پیشین و پسین آن نیز درهمین حد از تشویق به  جنایت است. بنابراین میتوان تصور کرد آنانیکه چنین کتابی را مقدس میدانند و سرلوحه اعمال خود قرار میدهند چه رفتاری با مردم کرده و میکنند.

Ancient Athens was a religious democracy

Athens, the very cradle of democracy, was a religious state that observed religious laws and customs.

Those who opposed the religious and moral views of the state were put to death - like Socrates.

In the Islamic Republic, women can vote and hold public office unlike in ancient Athens.

Those who don't like the IRI, don't have to live there. Nobody is forcing you to live under God's government on earth. If you prefer to serve devils, so be it.

Targol,

I don't ignore the " Left" and its effect on Iranian politics.

I believe leftist ideology were instrumental in the formation of " political Islam " which was introduced by Dr. Shariati. It was Shariati who paved the way for the "rule of clergy" by subscribing  to non-tolerant revolutionary leftist solutions and merging them with shia martyrdom concept to leads us where we are today.

Maybe you can expand on the " left" movement positive effects on Iran's history so we can learn a thing or two. Please, enlighten us.

Hyper Nationalism?

What the hell is that?  Does it mean you are more nationalistic than a baseeji who wears a gernade belt and throws himself under the enemy tanks? Or does it mean you are more nationalistic since you fight at the comfort of your host country? Do you think your heart beats faster than others for Iran?

I consider myself a person with nationalistic feelings. Yet i highly doubt i be admitted in to your rank and file. Why not? Why not include as many Iranians as possible?

When people spew out garbage like changing religion, killing mullahs, shitting on muslim shrines, etc etc and calling themselves nationalist is a fucking disgrace to nationalism. Islam is part of Iranian heritage. Islam is our people's religion. Islam has shaped our literature and archtecture. Islam has shaped our history. If you ignore our religion, history, literature, culture and heritage, you can not call yourself a Nationalist. Period!

Some facts for Muslims

Only 40% of Iranians abroad are muslim and only on paper, cause in reality they're moderate musliman who don't pray, eat pork, and drink. Only 20% go to mosques anymore in Iran in most major cities. Now, I got no problem with people who wanna stay muslim on paper, the more moderate (Fake muslim) the better, hell, you can even be very conservative as long as you don't try to mix your child molesting ideology with politics and force it on the average person.

Of-cource, the more Iranians we have converting to zoroasterianism the better, but we don't really need most Iranians being Zoroasterian as long as the government is nationalistic. Plus, I suggest if islam stays the dominant religion, then we take out anything Arab and foriegn out of it, so no more Arab Quran, no more Allah O Akbar (Say khoda), no more Arabs rags on their heads and diaper wearing shameless mullahs etc...

It's time to make the mullahs and their kin go extinct from our Iranian society, no need for these leaches.

 --------------------------------------------------------------

"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

Gender, Social class, Religious & ethnic apartheid.....

 Form the foundations of this insult and shame on humanity, called Islamist Republic of Iran. This regime is nothing but a fascist dictatorship, hiding behind the facade of islam. Most devout muslim Iranains know this now!

Once we understand the implications and agree on this basic concept, then we can start seeing how weak and vulnerable the islamist regime is and how potentialy strong the opposition forces to it are. Attacking Islam and Arabs within this framework of thought is as futile (even counter productive) as attacking Jews and christianity for Spanish inquisition or the KKK.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Well said

ayatoilet1 you are very right. I am not a Muslim nor do I have any sympathy for it in any form. However Islamic Republic and Khamenei are frauds even to Islam.
You did well to point out they break their own rules. On the other hand I see no reason to protect Islam. It is no good even when done "right". Islamic Sharia is barbaric and should be rejected. Why should we protect it. Why should we try to fix the Arab forced cult on us? I say better to dump it and flush it. The Islamic Republic did us a favor by debasing Islam. Now may be more people will reject it out of hand.
Thank you Islamic Republic for s**ing on Islam. Without you I may still have been a Muslim. You opened my eyes and helped me kick the habit.
The ingrained culture of Iran is Zoroastrian. Not Muslim and we don't need Islam. No thanks.

Spirituality and Institutional Religion Are Different

Its important to realize that spirituality - as expressed by someone's personal relgious beliefs is very important and can (and often does) reflect someone's culture and identity. Iranians generally now have Islamic identity and that should and can never be discounted - and indeed should be supported. Spirituality has social value. It is important. Lets all recognize this - it is a simple fact.

But Spirituality and Institutional Religion are different. There is a fundamental issue though that must be recognized and that is that Relgion and State should be separate; and Institutional Religion should NOT be allowed to participate in the public political arena. As in the U.S. or in Turkey - these two elements must be kept separate. Institutional Religion and Relgious leaders should NOT be enabled as a political vehicles. There has to be a clear separation.

Finally, to make things even clearer, Iranians must understand that the regime in Power in Iran are traitors to every CRITICAL element of value to Iranian society - they have debased Iranian Culture, Religion, Democracy - everything.

They have debased Iranian Culture/Identity with essentially Aribization of Iran and elimination of a free Iranian cultural movement in poetry, music, arts, film, etc (imprisoning many cultural leaders); they have debased Shia Islam in Iran by not only imprisoning many prominent clerics but also by appointing Khamenei as an Ayatollah without having written a resalah or being elected as a marjah (he is a fraud); and finally by not protecting the consititution - Iran today is neither a Republic nor Islamic - there are no free elections (Candidates are disqualified, political parties are disallowed...) , no public free debate (newspapers are closed down), no open marches allowed, there is widescale torture etc. but also, the regime is directly involved in illicit drug trafficking, human organ sales, prostitution to name several significant illegal and anti-islamic activities supported by the regime directly and indirectly.

Iranians must simultaneously value their identity - while at the same time bring down the regime. Everything should not go out with the bath water! We must protect our culture and various relgious traditions (Islamic, zoroastrian etc.) while at the same time denounce this evil regime...they are NOT Islamic.

This is the balance we should seek as we move forward in our opposition to the Regime. Again, this regime is neither Islamic nor a Republic.

Being a

proud hyper nationalist I take exception to "No Fear". The past 1400 years are not "Islam". They are history and I do not oppose them. I just oppose the Islamic garbage. The past 1400 years preserved NoRuz and produced Ferdowsi and Kasravi. 

Islam is not the be all end all. It is just a stain on Iranian people. Should we forget  it: Of course not! Just like we don't forget Zahhak we don't forget Islam. Rather we must remember it and be prepared if it shows up again. The way body remembers a germ.

Nationalists tried "joining" with Islamists. So did the Marxists. The former got cheated the latter shot.

We know about Islam: no thanks. VPK

Respecting a set of personal belives does not equal accepting

them as rules of social life. If these hyper-nationalist are "irresponsible at best" how about the coup state and its theft of popular will. People voted you out, you killed everyone that opposed you, that would make you "criminal at best" at least? right?

Above and beyond alliance of nationalist and the clergy there's always been the left : keeping both their feet to fire, from Haydar Am'Oghlo's leading role in the constitutional revolution to Kurdestan and orgainzing the workers today. You ingnore all this at your own peril.

Your avatar & name remains as disgusting and revolting as ever.

Political immaturity at its best.

The overwhelming majority of Iranians are muslims. Even if they don't believe in the " politicalization " of their religion, they still respect Islam and name their children with islamic names.

Now , we have the " pure " persians coming over and saying don't believe in that shit, believe in our shit and they expect the muslim majority to flip sides in no time.

These idiots don't even start by saying, be muslim, but cherish your Iranian heritage. They are incapable of understanding the process of a successful campaign. To these morons, Its " Us "  or  " Them " and they advocate the exact same methods that put them out of commission in the first place. (Advocate a method that displays the superiority of your approach in comparison to the one you are opposing. Get it? ...  Don't you see the irony here? )

The 1400 years that you are opposing is an integral part of our identity and culture. Its the most recent of our 2500 years history. Deny that and you are denying your Iranian heritage.

If you look back in our history, great political developements which transformed the future of our country happened when both Nationalistic forces and Islamic forces joined hand. This is a very important history lesson which you never learned. But i am sure you can write a 2000 words essay of women apparels in pre islamic persia !

You are doing more harm to the nationalist cause than you might think. As a true nationalist, you have to include as many forces as you can, including the muslim majorities. Iranian muslims have fought for Iran for centuries at front lines. They have as much right to this land as any.

Like you didn't know before

Who was running Iran.It should have been obvious when every other word coming out of Iran is 'Isreal'.If you say something,you are a 'zionist'....It's nothing new,been going on for 30 years now.These Mullahs were 'straight outta' the 1970's PLO....yea boi.

Agha jan, when are we going to stop calling for" Death", and

just overthrow the phuking mullahs. Keep it political, not personal. For instance what's wrong with saying:

Down with Islamic Republic; motivation being, this approach might actually reduce the inevitable violence. What do you think?

Also you correctly keep mentioning Islam's domination in every sphere of life in Iran today, in every form, except you don't mention who's actually the social base of this theocracy. What I have specifically in mind in the religious cast, and related to it, how are they dealt with in a free, open, democratic country?

So there we go! Now we know

So there we go! Now we know exactly what is going on in Iran and who is ruling in Iran. Thank you Sheikh Nassrollah for stating the obvious. Our country is under occupation by foreign usurpers who are threatening our identity, heritage and culture. But don't be too happy Sheikh Nassrollah, Iran has dealt with worse usurpers than you and turned them into Iranians. You too will not be successful. Iran will never die.

//azarmehr.blogspot.com/2010/11/thank-you-sheikh-nassrollah.html

why would the "Islamic

why would the "Islamic world" want the most Un-Islamic, corrupt criminal mafias to "lead" them?

what "Islamic" world?

If the Iranian people want nothing to do with the Islamic world and Islam, then it's their own choice. Plus, what Islamic country isn't in reality a hypocrite that doesn't put their own country and people ahead of Islam. If Muslims in reality looking towards their own religion instead of their own benefit then the west/America and israel wouldn't be ruling all muslim countries except Iran.

So if you Muslims/Arabs look only after your own benefit, why do you expect us Iranians to not? The Muslim world consists of cowardly hypocrites who want things done for islam while they do nothing. No wonder most Iranians want nothing to do with Islam anynmore.

Further more, seeing how you have an accent when writing these holidays, you seem to be an afghan, and Persian isn't 50% Arabic, it's 25% at best and we have replacement words for them which Iranians are starting to use much more than the Arabic one's, get your facts straight.

 --------------------------------------------------------------

"They are not afraid of the ideology alone, but of the detemination and will of the men behind it"

You are one seriously ignorant man!

Iran is part of Islamic civilization and a leading contributor to it.

Iran does have its own language, heritage and culture, but for 1400 years it has been part of the wider Islamic world.

Half the words in the Persian language are derived from Arabic, as is the script. There is no pure "Aryan ethnicity". Do you plan to remove all the words you use when (if) you speak Farsi?

The mullahs are anti-royalist, not anti-Iranian. They have had a bad experience with the monachy, as have the Iranian people.

The fact is that the Persian solar calendar is used in Iran and traditions like Now Rooz, Sizdah Bedar, Mehregaan and Yalda are officially approved of and celebrated. Only chaharshabeh soori is disapproved of because if its association with paganism and fire-worship.

What you are proposing is that Iran become insular and separate itself from the Islamic world rather than try and lead it - as is happening today.