Quintessential Questions

Hypocrisy at its best!

Example 1:

IR asking to be be part of G20 is like if Soviet Union or China would have complained why was not part of western economic summits during cold war era!

Another example :

Just imagine if US president or his cabinet members or congressmen every Sunday would have held a rally and shouted death to Iran and would have had US army or Americans walk over and burn the flag of Iran!

IR and Iranians would have been been on fire or would have asked the Muslims to start a Jihad but somehow they see no problem with IR doing this every week for the past 30 years !!!! Not to mention supporting suicide bombings of Hamas and Hezbollah, holding US diplomats hostage ...etc

and with that lovely record Q wants IR to attend the G20 too and falsely claims that Iran has done nothing to US, "absolutely nothing"!!!

Why does this always happen to me?

I put up a solid argument based on facts and figures agreed to by world's experts and I get half-assed ideological arguments, reflecting emotional desires far removed from reality.

Read the criteria my friends, and the published numbers of IMF and CIA. Iran should be in the G20.

I still have not heard one reason why Iran should not be in the G20, other than it is political and Iran is being artificially kept out. The few objective economic arguments I heard about Iran's economy, applies equally to one or more members of the G20. PPP-versus nominal calculation? Unemployment? Government sector? Even the non-standard "ease of doing business" ratings that Anonymous7 pointed to (where India is #120 and Brazil is #125 in the world, yet both are G20 members)?

Anyone reading this in the future will conclude what I have already concluded in the blog. It's political and therefore hypocritical counter to free-market aspirations. Many of the commentators don't have a valid reason for saying Iran should not be a part of G20, they simply don't want Iran to be a part of G20 are making up irrelevant excuses for it. As if the world economic system is a moral entity that should care about your opinions of the Iranian government.

All the same, I thank all of you for participating, especially to people who were genuinely interested in a frank exchange of ideas on the topic. To others who are here only to label and attack me regardless of the topic, well, you can continue to make yourself even more irrelevant to this community. I welcome it!

I hope at the very least many readers learned something new about Iran and GDP. Thanks.

Dear Zion: Don't be so

Dear Zion: Don't be so surprised. Given the state of recession/depression of global economy, the "Islamists economists" have finally realized that the world's economy is globalized and interdependent. In sum, Islamic/ummah economy is worthless; hence, the new desire to join the G20; frantically looking to reap the benefits of being part of the solution without really having contributed anything, except hubris and narcissitic rhetorics and behavior.

Zion, should I laugh at you or cry for you?

once again, you think you understand Iran and Iranians but in reality you end up putting your foot in you big mouth. Most Iranians (even here), agree with me on the REVOLUTION. Many think it was hijacked and went astray, but no one denies it was bound to happen. You're just out of your league on this one.

It's so cute how you try to use fascist Gestapo techniques, "highlighting" my words, and "keeping it as evidence" as if this is your fantasy world where you actually have power. So pathetic and amusing.

As a non-American, I'm baffled of how close an affinity you feel toward the Bush Administration. It really sounds like you miss them already.

“I PRAY to God that I will

“I PRAY to God that I will never know about economics,”~ President Ahmadinejad

Islamic of Republic of Iran is, purely and simply, the theft of billions and billions of oil revenues, aided and abetted by the criminal IRGC/basij forces of the velayate-faghih government at nearly every level of the state-dominated economy.

The redirection of a huge portion of Iranian treasury to the pockets of fat, smelly mullahs, conservatives, reformers, and their corporate army (IRGC, basiji) is conducted with the active support and full power of the supreme leader and almost completely unfettered by supervision, accountability or direction of any kind whatsoever.

The corporate/religious IRGC (IR's Halliburton), the basiji and the clergies have merged into a fascistic religious military industrial complex.

The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.

Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin. It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state.

The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state. Fascism promotes legal segregation in housing, national resource, education, health care, other resource allocation and employment. It provides legal justification for persecuting a specific segment of the population and operates behind a two tiered legal system.

These two tiers can be overt as it was within Nazi Germany where Jews, Homosexuals, Catholics, Communists, Clergy and the handicap were held to one set of rules and courts, while the rest of Germany enjoyed different laws.

In Fascism, one segment of society is always considered less desirable, sub-human (women, homosexuals, Bahai, sunnis, kurds, baluchis) or second class.

The IRI is also Reactionary wherein it makes policy based upon current circumstances rather than creating policies to prevent problems; piles lies and misnomers on top of more lies until the truth becomes indistinguishable, revised or forgotten.

In short, Iran is a huge profit center for Khamanei et al and his corporate Army, IRGC. Inc.

The Economist has a special report on the state of economy in Iran. (note, this article was published before the global recession)

“I PRAY to God that I will never know about economics,” President Ahmadinejad once said when questioned about apparent contradictions in his economic policy. The Lord appears to have answered his prayer. On his watch, the world oil price has soared from $62 a barrel when he was elected in June 2005 to $72 a barrel in recent weeks. Iran, which has a young, well-educated workforce, along with the world's second-largest reserves of both oil and gas, should be on a roll. Instead the economy is struggling. Is this a weakness the world can use to dissuade Iran from its nuclear ambitions?""

//www.economist.com/surveys/displaystory.cfm?...

Economic model of criminal

Economic model of criminal Khomeini,"Economics is for Donkeys". The estimates are much higher because the regime often reports false statistics to cover up for the regime's miserable failure in managing the economy.

//www.roozonline.com/english/archives/2007/09...

The mullahs are worse at running a modern economy than even the old command economies of the defunct Soviet bloc were.petro-Euro junkies creating a nation of welfare junkies)

//en.baztab.com/content/?cid=4588

World's Third Largest

World's Third Largest Economy in Recession

China infuses billions into its economy.

The world's third largest economy is now officially in recession.

Germany, which is also Europe's largest economy, contracted by half a point in the 3rd quarter, following a point-four percent dip in the 2nd quarter.

The consensus view of economists is that the world's leading industrialized economies are all in recession, or will be soon.

Jorgen Elmeskov, who directs policy studies at the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which groups 30 nations that embrace the free market under a democratic system of governance, told a reporter: "We are basically saying that the OECD [nations] are in recession and that the OECD is going to stay in recession for some time to come, and that the subsequent recovery is going to be a relatively slow one."

"The basic message is that we are in for a very troubled period," he said.
....
Sixty economists in Iran recently signed an open letter to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad critical of his economic policies. The letter said that Mr. Ahmadinejad's "tension-making interaction with the outside world" was causing the country to pay "heavy economic, political and social prices."

The economists complained of the loss of investment and trade opportunities, and blamed the government's policies for Iran's skyrocketing inflation.

The letter was published just days after the United States Department of Treasury announced a new measure designed to block Iran from accessing the U.S. financial system. The U.S. will now no longer permit so-called "U-turn" trade transactions that permitted U.S. banks to process payments involving Iran, as long as the transactions began and ended up with a non-Iranian, non-U.S. bank.

Tehran's Oil Dysfunction
//www.cfr.org/publication/12625/tehrans_oil_d...

Having alluded to all the above, oh how I wish Ahamdinejad was invited to particpate in the G20 Economic Summit to make a complete fool out of himself.

Gross mismangement of economy

Iran's economy is marked by an inefficient state sector, reliance on the oil sector (which provides 85% of government revenues), and statist policies that create major distortions throughout. Most economic activity is controlled by the state. Private sector activity is typically small-scale workshops, farming, and services. President Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD failed to make any notable progress in fulfilling the goals of the nation's latest five-year plan. A combination of price controls and subsidies, particularly on food and energy, continue to weigh down the economy, and administrative controls, widespread corruption, and other rigidities undermine the potential for private-sector-led growth. As a result of these inefficiencies, significant informal market activity flourishes and shortages are common. High oil prices in recent years have enabled Iran to amass nearly $70 billion in foreign exchange reserves. Yet this increased revenue has not eased economic hardships, which include double-digit unemployment and inflation - inflation climbed to 26% as of June 2008. The economy has seen only moderate growth. Iran's educated population, economic inefficiency and insufficient investment - both foreign and domestic - have prompted an increasing number of Iranians to seek employment overseas, resulting in significant "brain drain."

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world...

Iran ranks 89 in income per capita in 2007.

This figure will be much lower in 2008 given the decline of oil prices and rising inflation and unemployment.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world...

Q, Darie Zoor Migee

First, you fail to address IRI's dismal economic conditions of 15% unemployment and 25% inflation.

Second, you fail to address IRI's dismal stock market. Again, the IRI stock market is a joke. Foreign investment is limited to 10% in any given company? Why Q? I am no economist but do you know why? Because the stock market is worthless and has no great financial value as compared to other markets in the world. If it was open to foreign investment, the Americans could buy every industry in Iran for a few billion dollars. What kind of economic contribution can the IRI government provide to the financial markets? Zero contribution!

Third, the IRI is better at holding holocaust denial conferences, bashing America and the West (declaring that the West deserved the financial crisis), burning American flags on a weekly basis in Friday prayers and holding "The World without Zionism" conferences. This is the image of the IRI Q. Why would any country or countries serious in solving financial issues sit with the IRI government when the IRI has created this huge image problem for itself?

You also have left out the UN sanctions against the IRI and its financial systems which does not help the situation either.

Here are some more stats to help you realize why the IRI is not considered a candidate:

Iran ranks 142 (out of 172) in ease of doing business in the world.

See reports:

//www.doingbusiness.org/ExploreEconomies/?eco...

//www.doingbusiness.org/Documents/CountryProf...

See: //www.doingbusiness.org/economyrankings/

Why should the IRI be in the G20 if it is so hard to do business in in the IRI?

We should all be hasood of countries like South Korea, Turkey & Indonesia. No oil and a lot of progress in their economies.

All I could say to you Q is keep on dreaming. The Akhoonds will never gain anyone's respect in the world. Never!

I agree

Iran should be in the G20, the problem is, that the G20 is handpicked by the US.

Out of pure logic, if you want to solve the crisis, you should have the worlds 3 largest oil exporter into it, politics aside.

The G20 meeting was a joke anyways, and is being used to grant the IMF more power.

Q, why do you feel so

Q, why do you feel so insecure? Is blowing oneself up and funding every violent Islamic thug, the only way "Not to bow to the demands of the Great Satan"?

Is that how you communicate with those who are pushier and stronger than you?

Iraq ,even under occupation, did not bow to the demands of the "Great Satan".

The Islamists need to learn other ways of communicating with those whom they disagree with or those whom they perceive as unfair Temper tantrums, blowing yourself up, and death chants are immature, cowardly, and in the long run creates more violence.

It seems to me the only way the IR is able to communicate with the world is through violence and bellicose rhetorics. how pathetic but how very Islamists.

Indeed Fred

Our resident Islamist activist is getting surprisingly frank these days. Here is another one:
'I am proud of our revolution which could at best have been postponed by a foreign intervention but nothing could have stopped it.'

I am specially amused by all the allusions to "free market" here. Yep, Q's mullahs are meant to be a vital part of a "free market"! What he does not realize is that in the real world free market is based on legitimate business. It rests more than anything else on accountability and trust, the very thing that is irreconcilable with his regime.
This circus is getting more bizarre as times goes by. Now the outcome of the proud Islamic revolution wants to be part of G20. Amazing.

No way!

As long as the IR is sponsoring terrorism around the globe and its leaders are a bunch of hard-core outlaws, it won't make it to the list of G-20.

Futhermore, while most member countries of G-20 have, in one way or another, imposed economic sanctions against Iran, it would be idiotic to expect those countries to allow Iran to join the organization.

The Islamist reveals

“How else can we interpret the now widely-acknowledge gesture of peace and negotiations putting everything on the table that Khatami faxed over and Bush rejected???”

The origin/author of the unsigned so called “grand bargain” letter claimed by the head of NIAC lobby has never been revealed. Now this statement by an avowed Islamist republic lobbyist/apologist makes the revelation that the author was non-other than the “reformist” Islamist Khatami.

 If so, why did the Islamist republic choose the NIAC lobby head and not have the Swiss pass it along directly? Could it be that by definition Lobbyists are a dime a dozen hired hands, do as told no questions asked and should it become necessary are expendable like a used tissue paper while sovereign governments are not?  

Q

The problem with many like you is that you see the world in black and white!
To you if one does not approve of "death to America" Slogans then s/he wants to
"bow to the Master" and there is nothing between !!

There are hundreds of shades of colors between black and white that you , IR
and the extremists are denying.

But on the other hand you cry why Iran is not in G20. You just can't have the
cake and eat it too.

There is no more room for extremism in this world. It was proven to
comminists as Soviet Union collapsed and also China realized that it is in its
interest to join the world community. It will also be learned by the Muslim
extremists, the history has its way of teaching lessons.

A wise and caring Iranian government with the interest of Iranians in mind
would have gained a respectable standing in the world , economoically,
politically and socially without shouting death to America or Bowing to
them.

There are many independent countries in the world who have exchanged their
old dogmatic ideologically driven extremisms to smart secular diplomatic
practices without bowing to anyone or antagonizing.

You just have to take off those shades that you are seeing the world through
to see all the colors that exists between the two extremes.

David ET

Sorry. These are not direct quotes. These are summaries of what you mean. I'm simply trying to show you the implications of what you're saying and I find it disingenuous for you to run away from them. I will justify it right now.

Here's what you did say:

"Iran being at a very important strategically location in Middle East, with so
many resources from oil to human brains could have been among G8 but Mullahs
chose the path of antagonism and Death to everyone ... and now Iranians are
paying the price."

What is "choose the path of antagonism"? Isn't it not giving into the US demands?

What does the US want? Free access to Oil, preferred access to Iranian market, control of Iran's foreign policy and a friendly government that it can control. Am I lying? That's what they want. That's what they have in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries. That's what they LOST in Saddam and that's why he's dead.

IRI can give them this. Just like Saudi royal family and Pakistan's Musharref did. If they do this (and someone like Rafsanjani wants to), then all is forgiven and they can enter any club they want. Short of this US has not been interested so far, and it will continue to create excuses to hurt Iran. How else can we interpret the now widely-acknowledge gesture of peace and negotiations putting everything on the table that Khatami faxed over and Bush rejected???

When you say "choose the path of antagonism" that's what you're really saying. The logical counter part is that you have to "bow to the master" so that you can stay in power.

I consider it a POSITIVE POINT that IRI has not done this. YOU consider it "choosing the path of antagonism." You seem to think it is Iran that has invaded America's neighbors, sent over five aircraft carriers and is actively antagonizing America.

Iran has done nothing to the US, absolutely nothing.

We differ on that view. I've got no problem criticizing the Mullahs as I have done in the past. Not doing so in EVERY possible venue does not mean anything other than I'm not interested in proving my decency to people who don't want to see it.

Q

" if you bow to the Master, he would treat you well"

I asked you twice already not to put words in my mouth. You first make up a sentence and mischaracterize what I say then write a whole page about it !, You did it three time in this chain already which shows either your lack of logic to address what I really say or your biased way of reading someones points!

Khamenei decides US-Iran relationships not Khatami or Ahmadinejad. US and its presidents apologized for 1953 and IR still continued its nonsense. What is funny is that IR does not even like Mossadegh and when it comes to 53 they are Kaseh Daaghtar az Aash !! Give me a break !

I haven't seen one sentence that you put a small blame on IR even a small %. You have blamed everyone from US to Saddam to DavidET but them. 

Apparently the whole world is wrong and IR and Q are right!

But the results of the past 30 years already has proven who is wrong from isloation to economy to society to even people fleeing from Islam.

Majid Jaan...

You Know it!

و چنین گفت جرج اورول.........

همه موجودات (حیوانات، انسانها، ملل) با هم برابرند، ولی‌ بعضی‌ها یک خورده بیشتر از بقیه برابرند.

از قدیم گفتن....."احترام امامزاده به متولیشه"   

aaj sr that's not the problem at all

the same mechanism that is used to count production in rural China, Indonesian islands and Saudi Arabian desert can easily be used in Iran. Don't make up non-existent fantasy problems to treat Iran any differently.

Yes, natural resources are part of the picture in GDP and rightly so.

Perhaps you want to use a different model where natural resources don't count, but good luck making it relevant in the world economy. Turkey, for example, has no oil, correct. But it does sit in a strategic location and part of it's GDP has benefited greatly from Oil pipeline transit fees, and ground transportation of goods and humans through its territory to/from Europe, including Black Sea maritime routes. So, perhaps all those should also be discounted because of "resource" of Georgraphy that Turkey has been blessed with? The only reason Turkey is in NATO and has received a lot of economic development aid from the US over the past 60 years is its strategic location bordering the former USSR. What about tourism that you mentioned, you think every country has the ancient sites and attractions like Turkey does? Some countries do, some don't. Isn't that a natural resource?

So please, let's not waste time with this "Iran has oil" debate.

Iran is not silent. The leadership has been demanding to be let into WTO and other organizations but knowing that these groups are controlled by the G8 countries and they can't do anything about it, they don't want to appear desperate. But this question is in every potential "bargain" that is being discussed so far. Besides, who cares what IRI considers injustice, or if doesn't say so outloud? We can see that it is.

As far as your "PS" at the end, see the discussion above about natural resources. Also, you seem to be discounting Iran's domestic food production, automobile and industrial equipment that it has been exporting for quite a few years now.

The bottom line is the numbers. You can't make a rational decision simply saying the figures are wrong. Either prove it or provide better figures, but don't just make up reasons why IMF, World Bank and CIA numbers are not accurate and expect to be taken seriously.

Faramarz: All that sounds right, I agree. But G20 is not based on per-capita. If it was Iran would beat India, Indonesia and China, and the US wouldn't even be in the top 10. Also, per-capita is not necessarily the best way to measure it. Many Persian Gulf countries import millions of laborers who work in their territory and live in much lower standards, but are not counted for GDP-per capita purposes. So, it's not a good measure or reflective of anything realistic. Europe has also millions of non-citizen laborers.

Countries can play games with who is a citizen, resident, etc. to affect per-capita GDP number. It has historically been one indicator among many but I think it has outlived its usefulness as a solid economic measure.

Antagonism with the US?

David ET, you actually completely agree with my main point which is that G20 is not based on capitalist or free market principles but rather political/strategic which makes them hypocrites for excluding Iran.

But you're saying "well, if you bow to the Master, he would treat you well." Do you really think that is a viable role for ANY self-respecting Iranian leader? Just because other countries may be comfortable with that, doesn't mean it is right for Iran to lose its pride.

So the US can overthrow Iranian governments (Mossadegh), install others by force (Shah) and then support blood thirsty dictators (Saddam) to kill Iranians by weapons of mass destruction, and it's IRAN who is being antagonistic? Let's count the Iranian lives lost as a result of US involvement in Iranian and Middle Eastern affairs and vice versa. Are you ready to do a real scientific analysis?

It is now well publicized that the Khatami government gave SERIOUS and REPEATED gestures for peace and negotiations with America but Bush refused to respond which practically created the Ahmadinejad faction.

This is what I mean, when I say "morality". It's just that some people have so deeply internalized the western rhetoric, they don't even realize the big picture. So-called "grievances" only matter if they are against the people who matter (Westerners) and not Iranians. How else can you explain that SAYING "death to America" is the problem rather than DOING serious harm to Iran like America has through it's policies.

Forget hypocrisy at the International level. You are right that it exists. But our own labeling betrays prejudices.

Just go ahead and re-read what I said about the young Iranians and how they will judge all of us. Have a good night.

Dear Q your stats are wrong

Dear Q,

Saudi Arabia has a population of 15 million people at best, whereas Iran's population is 72 million.  GDP of Saudi Arabia is 55% of that of Iran, making gross national product of S/A (ie per capita) more than 2.5x that of Iran.

Unemployment in S/A is under 2% whereas its 17% in Iran for men and over 25% for women, eventhough women between ages of 18-34 are now more/better educated than men.

With the price of oil below $65/bbl, Iran's GDP for 2009 will be 10% less than that of 2007 and 16% below 2008.

Q:Problem is compilation of the figures.......

Reading the quoted sentences below, coming from the same source you are basing your argument from, one would argue where to find out these figures coming from?. Knowing what we know about the economy of Iran, knowledge through government controlled data and other reliable sources, there are major deficiencies with the definition of "....takes into account the relative cost of living and the inflation rates of the countries..."

"Using a PPP basis is arguably more useful when comparing generalized differences in living standards on the whole between nations because PPP takes into account the relative cost of living and the inflation rates of the countries, rather than using just exchange rates which may distort the real differences in income."

Again,knowing what we know, the figures quoted do not match the reality. It is very amusing and interesting to find out what type of data it has been used and how these information obtained from, knowing answers to these few simple questions we shall find out if the ranking is legitimate.

How come Iran is silent about this so called "injustice" knowing rhetoric is name of the game in the scene of international arena??.

p.s. however you define GDP or PPP I am not sure where the Growth Demotic Products (excluding oil revenue, and compare it with Turkey where there is not a single drop of oil or gas, while they have zillions of exportr and millons of tourists every year, and contrary to that, Saudi Arabia , the biggest producer by far compare to Iran and any other high oil producer in the wolrd, still is not ranked) come from nor Purchase Power Parity, where most people sold their jewels, carpets, and personal belonging last 30 yeas and thanks to Real Estate boom used as cash machine.
pps:Carpets export declined about 15% year over year since last 20 years (once number in the world, now ranking about number 4, behind India Turkey, China ) pistachio and caviar is almost dried up. Cotton, once exporting, now we are net importer; rice, tea, citrus fruits, vegies and minerals are almost dead now too.

DAVID: You think Saudis haven't earned a cozy spot there too?

Let's just say Iran had perpetrated 9-11. You and your pals here would probably be saying the same boloney about how a war was ok and Iran should have been attacked, because I'm SURE that would have happened. But saudis do it and I'll be damned. They are still sitting on gold toilets and eating caviar.

Saudi Arabia should be shut out of EVERY meeting in the world if you're going to use some wacky scale to exclude Iran. You are prejudiced and you won't admit it, but you are. Unless Iran and its leaders expose themselves, the world can't do a damn thing.

Of course, when it comes to using Iranian oil and other things, it's going to be ok. But right now, "human rights" keeps America from being involved. What a joke. I can't believe there are Iranians who support that talking point! It's 2008! not 2003! 

Q

Nowhere I said Iran is excluded because of its Human
Rights record! Islamic Republic is excluded for being irresponsible and a non player .
It is a political and economic decision.

and yes hypocrisy does exist! so what's new?

Now should we come to street and shout "death to America"  or create
Hezbollah and support Hamas etc?!

You can not stand on the side line of a football game, throw rocks at the players
and then complain why they don't let you play!!  If you don't like the game, if you shout death to America, do NOT expect
America and the west to send you flowers in return!

Yes hypocrisy exists, Bush exists, Guantanamo Bay exists, Saudi Arabia exist,
Iraq war exists BUT so does flaws of Islamic Republic.

How we deal with the world around us determines our place in it.

Mullahs thought by shouting Death to America and Allah  Akbar the rest of
Muslims will follow them and they become the next power. Well they were proven
wrong and that was only a prescription for the isolation of Iranian people which
in essence helped keep the Mullahs in power longer. Today their friends are
limited to some poor isolated counties such as Syria, Sudan and alike...

There are so many countries in the world. Why aren't they targeted? Why isn't
India? etc etc.

Mullahs do NOT have the interest of IRAN and Iranians in mind and never had.
Ideologically they believe in the World Government of Islam, economically they
are rooted and defended by Bazaar and academically they have no qualification to
run a country.

Yes governments of US , EU , Russia, China , etc etc are after their own
national interest at all costs and there exists hypocrisy...OK now what?  Iran being at a very important strategically location in Middle East, with so
many resources from oil to human brains could have been among G8 but Mullahs
chose the path of antagonism and Death to everyone ... and now Iranians are
paying the price.

Economy is for donkeys said Khomeini and his pictures are above the head of
all the leaders of Islamic Republic.

Yes" Ke az maast keh bar maast!" 

IR has now created Imam zadeh Sayar (Saint Mobile ) and you want Iran to be a player in the G20. Get real Q:

//www.goftaniha.org/2008/11/blog-post_503.html

Q are you having laugh??? Iran in G20???

With Shia mullah in charge, we don't want any more embarresment in the world...Remember Ahmadinejad in the UN with his paranoia about his Imam???
Iran's economy is not exactly booming...Inflation and corruption is increasing more each year and you want these idiots to represent us at G20...Aziz, When will some of you guys understand that with this regime in place, there won't be any changes in their policies and the outcome; more isolation...

Yes, you did ET

When you say the only one's "responsible" for the isolation of Iran, you infer Morality. That's like saying Cuba is responsible for cuban embargo... Please... these are instances of economic warfare sold to the general public as "they deserve it" it has nothing to do with what IRI wants. As a matter of fact IRI does want more trade, WTO and other economic activity.

You are trying to say that Iran's behavior in non-economic areas (like Human Rights, I'm guessing), is the reason they are not "allowed" into the club. This is a statement of morality, a few countries have "judged" that Iran is not "responsible" enough (code language) to be in G20. And people like yourself are spreading this justification as if it was divine law.

There's nothing applicable to Iran in any area, including Democracy that could not be applies MORE to Saudi Arabia, China and a few other nations, even by Western standards.

However, NONE OF THIS is supposed to matter in free market economics which all the powerful countries PRETEND they are following. The point of my blog was to point out this fundamental hypocrisy.

The point of your comment was -- lets be honest with ourselves for just a second -- simply to show YET ANOTHER reason why Mullahs are bad. But the published numbers speak for themselves. EVEN with all this criticism and sanctios that CIA is saying they are in the top 20. That's undisputable.

Your reasons about "baazaari" mentality, etc, is really irrelevant to G20. What kind of mentality do the Saudi's and the Indonesian businesses have? What about Chinese and Japanese? The reason for the existence of corruption is money and greed and it permeates in ALL societies, including all the G20, not just Iran.

I'm not the one asleep for 30 years. I don't want to get into a lengthy existential argument with you David ET. But I'll just leave it at this: Iran belongs to Iranians and all legitimate change must be from inside the country. This is the 21st century now. Young Iranians are increasingly online and web savvy. At a time when their country is surrounded and under siege but US forces on all sides, with nearly weekly threats for 6-7 past years, they read these discussions we are having here and elsewhere.

They see the Iranians outside are so single-mindedly against the government that they are siding with Iran's enemies in all the arguments. Bush would show up and make some bullshit disingenuous statement about Iran's democracy in order to justify denying it's right to energy (Be in nuclear, or be in conventional exports, like the pipeline to India). They see this injustice prepetuated by LAME excuses of democracy, antisemetism, etc. while it's all about money and markets in reality (See Saudi Arabia). And they see their own countrymen parrot it blindly and blame Iran just like those enemies do.

What do you think they take away from your message in areas like human rights? Do you think they will follow you in the streets to overthrow this system?

It's been 30 years. Do you want to wake up one day when it has been 50 and THEN realize what you're doing?

Q

I did not say other countries are acting on moral grounds, nor did I say they are punishing Iran. Please read too and do not put words in my mouth.

Iran's regime will not bring anything of value to the table at G20 and alike and it will only disturb the process as it has shown in its other international involvements.

What you want is a wishful reformist expectation and since that is not being met , you are blaming the messenger and not the ones responsible for it!

Islamic Republic BY CHOICE and by POLICY has been out of the world market economy nor has shown any interest in being a player . At least in rhetoric they have always questioned the world financial markets.

Now you individually can not hope to change the game unless THEY show a different RESPONSIBLE attitude towards the world which they are incapable of anyway.

Islamic republic is the child and product of Iran's Bazaar and soon the modern market needs will force Iran's Bazaari powers to catch up with the rest of the world or face extinctions. That is when all these Islamic extremism will go out the door and give way to modernism and secularism.

The same ones who were not happy with Shah's rapid shift of financial powers in Iran , are the ones who will do away with their own creation (Islamic Republic) when their financial interests are no longer sufficiently met by the Mullahs.  There is already much unhappiness in the "bazaar" if you read IR's own new agencies!

Until then there is no room for Bazaar mentality in the current financial markets and its summits.

I respect your wishful hopes but its time that you wake up from the 30 year old dream and see the regime for what it is and what it never can become under present system.

Who....

Controls the resources controls the world! any questions? 

You have been reading the chart upside down mr/mis Q!

According to realities of daily life i just want to urge Mr IQ to refresh his mind/memories or at least get more real information.
In Iran, according to central Bank's latest estimation, we have a rate of inflation around 24%. According to free and independent estimations, the real number is 34%
In Iran , according to reports from government we have a rate of joblessness about 15%, according to more reliable sources, the rate of joblessness is about 24%
In Iran, according to Government estimations there is rate of 15% living under the line of poverty, according to independent sources, the real rate is about 22%
In Iran we have an economy which is up to 90% based on oil export.

In Iran we have the worlds 3rd corrupted economic system.
In Iran we have about 8 million of Drug addicts.
In Iran we have about 3 million of prostitutes (excluding the much larger number of Islamic / sighe ones).

None of these merits exist in for example the 3 countries you have mentioned in your distorted claims, namely Argentine, Saudi Arabia or Australia.

In Addition to that there are at least 50 more countries which are more healthy, more developed and prosperous than Iran, and they are not in G20, and neither of them complains, can your complaining be a reflection of your complex of Inferiority or perhaps blind Nationalism , or still worse, your hidden affinity for a corrupt, subversive, criminal system which is leading our beloved country into total disaster??