می بخور، منبر بسوزان - مردم آزاری نکن

Shazde I

I am sorry to say it; but you are right. We did hate the Shah for all the reasons you say. But we are not the people we were in 1979 anymore. We have learned at least I hope. 

Respect was the main thing. We thought by kicking the Americans we get that. Well we didn't . Instead we got to be known for being total shits. It took years of well behaving diaspora and the demonstrations last year to recover. Now at least people in the world know the difference or nornal Iranians and the idiots who still hold on to their failed revolution.

I hope to live to see a real free Iran. How do we get there: I don't know. I just hope we do.

Hey Free: you're a real Boomerang ... JJ can't throw you away!

Free, you are a good intelligent kid, and I don't mind a bit of healthy debate, even though your knowledge is mostly theoretical kosher from the other side of the seas ... but then again, I'm known to enjoy both sides of the buffet!

We can have this debate at many levels ... serious, scientific, fact-based ... i.e. boring! So loosen up if you plan to survive this site or generally, any prolonged encounters with the Iranian folks. Unlike your kind, we are not straight arrows, heck most of us aren't straight anything. So take it easy, try to dance with us, listen to the drum beat and enjoy the rocking and the rolling.

"Free" you say? Free was our everything, under the Shah, except our minds and our tongues. A university student would earn 3,000 rials as educational grant each month. His dorm was 500 rials and his meals were 5 rials each. Beer was 50 rials and hookers 200. It was really free all around!

We didn't hate Shah out of jealousy, we despised him for his rotten Savak, his stinking arrogance, his perceived servitude to foreign influence, his porn-filled tv and cinemas, his drug pushing gangs, his mandatory Rastakhiz, his ...

If you guys want to take a line from the British who ruled that region for many decades, learn this: "Keep Arabs full and Iranians hungry"! We are a country of poets, philosophers, ideologues ... basically theory-loving dilatants. Look how long it is taking those idiots to build a single bomb, which the Paki's with 1% of our technical brain power and the hungry N. Korens built in a jiffy!

Give us freebees and face your demise! Ask every one of the US negotiators who have met the Iranian chaps. Ask them what was the Iranian side really asking for? All of it comes down to one word RESPECT!

The real difficulty is understanding what that respect means for the pride Iranian. It is an array of intangibles which one can list for a long time, but it is sure as hell wasn't the free stuff that Shah was offering.

Boom & Shazde

You both make very good points. Yes, the "revolution" was popular. Yes people did participate from all walks of life. But those were not today's Iranians. They were Iranians of 1979. Most of us have learned our lessons. It is only Soroush and Kadivar types who are stuck in the past.

I remember this also: 

• People hated the Shah. Mostly due to his own arrogance and puffed up image. Arya Mehr my foot!
• There was much residual anger over the 1953 coup. People felt like we were a USA colony. Only saw the negative while minimizing the good.
• We felt our culture was under threat. Egged on by xenophobes like Al Ahmad and charlatans like Shariati we thought Islam would help restore us.
• Desipite prosperity Iranians of 1979 were not sophisticated. They did fall for nonsense babblings of Shariati and Al Ahmad.
• Khomeini did make a lot of false promisses. People wanted to beleive so they did. Signed their own death warrants.
• Foreigh forces specially British and Carter took advantage of the situation. Pushedour nation over the cliff. It cost Carter his presidency.

But what is the point? We know what happened. None of this is a secret. We must move on. Iranians today are not the naive idiots of 1979. That is why people like Kadivar and Soroush are getting responses like we see on IC. With millions in the West we have learned a lot. I don't know what will happen. But the generalizations are out of date.

Baba, not being part of your hamvatans,

I'm entitled to declare boycott on BoycottIraniandotcom.

My pleasure. ;o) 

I encourage hamvatans to boycott this AIPAC dominated website

As you can see from the articles, this purportedly Iranian site's content is
anti Iranian and comes largely from an Israeli/AIPAC perspective, which is
offensive to the vast majority of Iranians. Please do not engage with this site
except to warn other Iranians.

I encourage hamvatans to boycott this AIPAC dominated website

As you can see from the articles, this purportedly Iranian site's content is
anti Iranian and comes largely from an Israeli/AIPAC perspective, which is
offensive to the vast majority of Iranians. Please do not engage with this site
except to warn other Iranians.

Provocative as usual

Either way, it gives food for thought. 

PS. Glad to see Shakalaka and SamSam are back. ;o) 

God Bless Saddam

God Bless Saddam.

He knew how to rule Iraq.  Look at the gov in place now.

He killed 500,000 Iranian future nutcases who would have been Ahmadinejadi supporters

He Actually put some fear into the hearts of the Israelis.

He actually believed in Principles.  He could have easily done as King Abdulla of SA and Hosni Mubarak have done: bow down, continue to get rich and like a slave to America...but he refused. 

He refused to leave Iraq even when his life was at stake.

He killed the right people:

Shias who were too retarded- the same one who support Muqtada Al Sadr

Kurds who wanted to seperate- see how these Kurds have allowed Israelis to come in to their homeland and open up business

Iranians- who would have been Ahmadi-nejad supporters today.

 Go and see how Saddam raised his two daughters and you will see he raised them like any modern middle class family.  Yes his sons were wild, but sometimes dads can't control their sons.

He killled his own son in laws because they BETRAYED the country.  So if he killed any other groups, no one can blame him.  Afterall, loyalty to the country meant that even his own family was not immune. 

GOD Bless Your Soul Mr Saddam Hussein.

Lastly, SamSam's point

about ignorance and satire is a good one. It's like grammer, you have to know the rules before you can break them, otherwise it's just bad grammer. What's more, as SamSam writes, "Persians were but one ethnic migrant group among the one dozen indoeuropran tribes(medes,Saka,Parthian..etc) who settled in Iran." This is not a minor point and to simplify this rather complex subject to a case of "blond and blue-eyed" worship is just wrong on many levels.

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Again, you're generalizing...

When you say that the counter revolution of 1979 happend as a result of "the hatred of Shah and the US. It was a hot burning and blinding hatred towards what had actually given Iran the best decades of its history." 

The revolution was won, mostly, because of a populist message, which can be summed up this way: people didn't want to miss the boat on all the goodies that the Hendi Mullah was promising. This is not a guess, it's fact. It wasn't so much uber hatred of the Shah and America as it was the lure of free water, free gas, free electricity, free bus fare and a share of the oil profits. Greed. Our stomachs were full, but we wanted more. 

The revolution grew in popularity exponentially seemingly every week as the Hendi Mullahs empty promises (fool's gold) were being disseminated all across Iran. It was like a tidal wave, where as the current of chaos got stronger, the more people didn't want to remain on the sidelines, because they risked missing the boat on all the fabulous goodies that were promised by the coming Imam Zaman, whose face had even been illuminated on the effing moon! 

It wasn't so much "Islam" that the masses were clammoring for, but rather free this and free that. The 1979 "Islamic" revolution had as strong a populist message as any revolution in history -- the Islamic part was just a label that was added in victory. In fact, what fueled the victory was not so much democracy, but a "just" society that offered a lot of freebees (in part because people felt that Iran was a very rich country, why shouldn't we all enjoy its vast spoils, as opposed to just the royal family). 

Come to think of it, "oghdeh" had a lot to do with the cause of the revolution as well.

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

And no, I'm not "Farah"

You may remember me as Sassan, Nusha Arzu, Free, Spear or Boom Shakalaka, but no I'm not Farah.

If you recall, it was on one of your blogs, I believe, where I exposed that fraudulent Marge as a non-Iranian, Palestinian born ("Gazan") loser.

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Shazde, the kiss of death...

It's the kiss of death when an IRI supporting hezi like Q endorses your blog... He writes, "I really agree with much of it and very little I disagree..." 

That sadly says it all.

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Dear Divaneh: "generalization is always wrong", but no one can

think, judge and talk without generalization!

There are a couple of levels to that caricature, but the easiest one is my own experience with the 1979 collapse of the Iranian civilization. Some call it revolution, some have other less kind words for it, but for me it was a collapse, which created a nearly failed-state, and brought Iran to the verge of destruction.

Now, my little eyes saw what happened. You or VPK or X or Y can't tell me what I saw and what I know. I saw that famous 98%, who participated, energized and loved that collapse. If you have had the time, you may have read that it was the "most popular" revolution ever! That it had the highest popular level of the country folk's participation in it! Way way higher than the French, the American, the Russian or the Chinese revolutions!

So 31 years after that unmitigated disaster, what is the analysis? Should we cough a "temporary insanity plea"? Should we stick to the conspiracy theories: Iluminati, Freemasons, Jews, Bahai's? Sorry, but I can't digest that crap anymore. What happened was internal; it was wide spread; it was forceful. It was a pure and simple complete discontent and disgust over our state of affairs! The same hatred has ruled Iran for 31 years, and is planning to build itself into a larger regional fireball.

In 1978, we were so close to the Americans that back in the US of A, they used to call us "the 51st state". There were 100,000 Americans living happily in Iran! I don't know how old you are, so you may not have seen it to believe it. The Iranian government could buy ANY, I mean ANY conventional military hardware from the US of A, simply upon REQUEST! As god is my withness, it was easier to get a US visa in any of their 15 consulates in Iran, than to get a train ticket to Mashhad! Our status was "most favored", our money had been firmly pegged to US$ for 25 years, and our conventional military was the fourth in the world!

We threw all that away ... with joy and happiness. Oh god, you may not have seen the "happy" moment of 23 Bahman 1357, but I have. We were dancing and prancing, and it was 98% of us, and NO we were not a bunch of Dahati, Ozgal, Bisavad ... it was 98% of university students, 98% of doctors, engineers, clerks, tradesmen, workers, farmers. The very SAME people who had benefited the most from the 25 years of Shah's and America's governance over Iran!

No, it wasn't done for the love of god, islam or khomeini. It was done for the hatred of Shah and the US. It was a hot burning and blinding hatred towards what had actually given Iran the best decades of its history. Why Why Why?

Well, I have got my own "generalized" view on it. What's more, I firmly believe that until we can understand and go past our hateful demons and deep rooted biases, we will never go any further than following one collapse with another and another and another.

بیل عزیز

سرشون رو یکم گرم کن، تا من این بشکه رو سوراخ کنم و برسونم به خدمتشون!

Shazdeh, Baba Be Khiyal Araya o Chini o this o that!

We need to go after Q, Mola Nasreding, and Sargord Pirouz... We need your help on that front...When they hear your name their pants go brown! Help please help!

باجناق خوش سیما

ابلاغ رسمی‌: بدین وسیله، با توجه به چشمان آبی رنگ، قد و بالای رعنا، و موی بور جناب عالی‌ - با توکل به خدایان کهن سوئدی (تور و مول) - به توسل مدارج نژادی و عنایت الهی - از این تاریخ؛ شما را رسما آریایی اعلام مینمایم!

Shazde Asdola Mirza Jan

From what I have heard, we have all come from Africa, and as recently as 12000 years ago we were still all black, even those who lived in Europe. 

It seems to me unlikely that the Europeans who had acquired lighter color skin and eyes, then suddenly did a 180 degree turn and emigrated to Iran. It makes more sense that Iranians were there already, lighter than black Africans and darker than white Europeans. May be some whites did go to Iran, but It makes sense that most Iranians were locals. 

As for myself, I am brown and proud of it.  

shazde Asdola Mirza Jan

Are you saying my gorgeous Paul Newman aqua blue eyes are not Iranian? Do I now need to also attend DA (Darkies anonymous?) You cruel man!! :-)

One of the

worst blogs I have read in a while.

There are already some very good responses by SamSam; Boomerang; Divaneh and so on. I could not do a better job myself. But I will give it a try.

This:

• Generalizes Iranians and makes some major stereotyping.
• Misses the point on the meaning of Aryan.
• Puts down our heritage.
• Frankly stinks of arrogance of the writer.

Who the heck is the writer to tell us what "Iranian Males" are like and think. Sir: you speak for yourself. Not for me nor for other Iranians.

I know plenty of Iranian males. They are all different from each other. Anyone who makes such general statements about them shows their own ignorance. Not to mention their own arrogance of thinking this is even possible. 

One last thing. This is exactly what IRI wants to see. Anything to degrade Iranian pre Islamic culture. No wonder Q loves this blog. Lets just beat up our heritage and try hard to pretend to be Arabs just like the Egyptians do.

Are we generalizing Shazde?

Shazde jaan, most Iranians that I know do not match the caricature that you have sketched of the average Iranian male, but yes some of it is true. We think we are better than our neighbours? Yes, many of us do. Some of us think we are better than Europeans too. And the rest of the world is better to stay quite.

But which nation is not proud of itself? Don't Japanese, Germans, English, Americans and almost every other nation with some level of success think that they are the best? Don't other nations have right or wrong reasons for having national pride? I think that sense of national pride is now needed more than ever before as our national identity is threatened by religious zealots and our wholeness by separatist movements.

Like you, I have little time for those who live in 2000 years ago or assign different unwarranted qualities to themselves or certain historical figures. I however understand that this is a nation whose dreams have been shattered and some of its members wish to close their eyes to the realities and dream again.

Shazdeh, this is excellent!

I really agree with much of it and very little I disagree which is rather confusing to me right now!

I think you are absolutely right on. Yes, you did arrive at this conclusion likely by trying to explain why the hezbollahis are now "proponents of Persian nationalist glory", which is understandable given your political inclinations.

But the larger point is well made. There is a lot of Euro-envy driving Iranians on all sides. This is a post-colonial reality and exists in many countries of the developing world. Where we, Iranians, may have been more subject to it is perhaps the simple coincidence of physical appearance. You see a Chinese, Tai, Black African can easily see that they are not Anglo Saxon and will never be, and hence may come to this conclusion much faster than us who can continue to delude ourselves with this envy.

I think if you look at the colonial period you can see the roots of this phenomenon. This was nothing sinister, really, it's just a natural order of technological and military superiority, the way Persians themselves had in their own past.

The attitudes of the Western colonialist is simply that their own values and culture must be superior or else they would not have triumphed militarily. So therefore, this attitude becomes ripe for "monkey immitation" exactly as you called it, because it is seen as a pathway to success.

The French, I believe are actually even more responsible than the British in the case of Iran since much of Iran's modern educational foundations were set by the French advisors in the Qajar era.

The identity crisis in Pahlavi Iran led to much fantastic and idealistic rewriting of history by the immitators, where all of a sudden Ancient Persia looked just like Europe before there was Europe. Our entire identity became noble by virtue of being close to Europeans.

Today, people who grew up, or influence by parents who grew up under that kind of neo-fascist education firmly belong in your groups 1 and 2. Many of the ones who have moved to the West continue their darnest to immitate in all aspects of life, tacitly approving their kids immitating even the most destructive aspects of Western culture for the sake of this envy.

And the conservative hardliners like Ahmadinejad in Iran may have gone past group 1, but they are still in 2 and 3. The most telling notion is the new "competition" factor whereas they try to define themselves both "against" but also "as good as" the West. Therefore still obsessed and still immitating, at a meta-level.

ایشان که جدّ اندر جدّ ترک بود ناگهان پارسی‌ آریایی و پهلوی شد

افتخار همه آفاق و معبود ما - فرامرز جان، زیبا مینویسی

نکات شما همه بدیع است و معانی‌ استوار. از حسن نظرت سپاسگزارم.

جالب ترین داستانی که از غرور بیجا و توهمات نژادی خاندان جلیل سلطنت قابل ذکر است، شجره سازی برای رضا شاه بود. ایشان که جدّ اندر جدّ ترک بودند، با زحمات بی‌ شائبه یک مشت دستمال بدست حرفه ای، ناگهان پارسی‌ و آریایی و پهلوی شدند!

dear hamsade

thanks, but no thanks ... how could you bring the level of my esteemed article to "satire"? is this another english conspiracy to ruin the reseach of our scientists and professors? if you are an english agent, know that i will never surrender! if you are not one, do you at least know a good english agent who could spot me a desk job and a tiny pension?

death to america, death to israel, death to the anti-velayat-faghih!

خر شانس عزیز

حق با شماست - این انگلیسی‌ها با اون چشمهای چپشون حق ما رو خوردند و بردند و ما موندیم و کویر لوط و دریاچه نمک و یه مشت پشم سیاه و دماغ بادمجونی!

یادم میاد که تو جنگ کازرون، همین قاسم احمق هم با من بود، که همچین با شمشیر زدم به گردن ژنرال انگلیسی، که سر بریدش تا یک ساعت فحش بی‌ ناموسی میداد.  بالاخره صدا زدم: "قاسم، برو یه فیتیله کرباس بچپون تو حولقومش که نفس استعمار بند بیاد!"

Shazdeh Joon;

Roger Cohen seems far more composed in his writings and speech. You should emulate him as a role model. He most certainly doesn't suffer from superiority complex and he also is not "Kaseyeh daaghtar az aash"!

Here is a case...

Here is a case of Aryan envy:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cohen

There is so much latent animosity and venom in the above text.

Samsam Jaan we love you man

and if you leave our family wont be complete. When I hear the word Aryan, in my mind it resonate; tolerance, spiritual goodness & purity of thoughts, deeds and words not to mention ability to laugh together, I added the last one myself ;-). It should not have anything to do with one's race. In the eye of God, Mother nature or whatever you want to beleive in, We Are One! what seperate us is our perceptions of one another.

"The perceptions are meaningless in themselves; but the emotions are worse, for they delude their victim into supposing them significant and true." - Aleister Crowley

He is speaking for a small minority of Iranains

Just to make sure, I double checked by taking a look at myself in the mirror after reading the first couple of paragraphs.And nope, I am neither blonde nor blue eyed. I am hairy, dark haired (sadly going bald), dark skinned and brown eyes, like 99% of Iranian men I think.

But seriously, what makes some Iranians so sensitive about this idea of racial Identity? is it a side effect of living many years in sometimes hostile, racists western societies or something deeper in our psychees?

افتخار نژاد آریا

A Thoughtful Insight into our Culture and Psyche!

Over the years, I have had the pleasure of listening to the discussions and the arguments of people who have had prominent positions under the late Shah, and I have to say that your observations are quite accurate. First of all, many of them still believe that the source of all our problems is Jimmy Carter and the Democrats in general. And somehow there was a grand plan, designed in some room somewhere to deny us Iranians our proper place on the world stage. And we are just victims!

Secondly, there is a general hostility and arrogance towards other Middle Easterners and people of similar background. Not that they don’t deserve it! But that’s beside the point. As an example, right after 9/11 when all non-citizen Middle Easterners were told to show up at the Immigration Office, I remember that I spoke to one of my relatives who was at the Federal Building in LA. He mentioned that the Iranian crowd brought their flags and stood in one place by themselves and away from the others. Their rationale was that by doing so, the immigration guy would distinguish the noble Aryan Iranians from the rest of low-life Muslims! Never mind the fact that in the eyes of the immigration guy, every one from that part of the world is a freaking Arab, and every one from south of the Rio Grande is a freaking Mexican. So don’t waste your time telling him the difference between Brazil and Paraguay!

What has helped many of us to see the light, as you have correctly said, is being dropped in the middle of a fairly competitive environment at a younger age, like a university, sports or a profession. When the Jamaican guy (as an example) is bigger and faster than you on the field, you can do one of two things; either get mad and make racial comments or accept it, move on and deal with it. And learn to apply your own skills to compensate for that.

Thanks for writing this.

Hamsade ghadimi va khar

Gentlmen or ladies; 

there is a big difference between satire & ignorance. writing a blog minimizing & degrading a groups heritage is not a satire. If you have a problem with the term "Aryan" more power to you but remember the inhabitants of this land for the last 3 millenium have reffered to themselves exactly as such "Iran" ( land of Aryans). Hence if you have issue with that term then why dont you propose a new name for this country since the very same name is definitly offensive to some & i,m all for it. In fact i proposed it a while back in face of such huge anti Iranian propaganda on this ommatie site. As you know, dear folks like you, JJ & his deputies & moderators(who keep deleting my responces to sexual profanities against my family in my own blog) consider me a fascist & a racist but my question to you gentlemen is what is then diffrentiating you from a fascist like me when you condone putting down & degrading a huge group of people's ancient heritage via satire since those legacies for good or bad are part of Iranian heritage. This might be one of my last posts so feel free to indulge. 

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia