Siavash300

VPK

I'm never surprised by this stuff. What you're saying is that associations with Hitler makes Iranians look bad.

Iranians are consumed with putting on an act and making themselves look good. Everything is done for the sake of making a statement.

They'll hide their own family member, to achieve it. 

All this stuff has nothing to do with a search for the truth, and that's the primary concern of any serious study of history. 

Here's something interesting for you, Siavash

//listverse.com/2011/01/31/top-10-things-the-nazis-got-right/

Siavash

I don't want do get in a big argument about Hitler. I know as a fact Germans during WWII; pretty much always are Iran's best EU friends.  But it is stupid of us with AN denying the holocaust to bring Hitler up now. Get it dude?

We don't need to prove to the world we at Nazi wannabees. Man pull your head out of the *** and see it for what it is. We need association with Nazi like a hole in the head!

JahanKhalili question

"some of the engineers died in accidents during the construction, and that their graves can be seen at some point along one of the routes from Tehran to north." Jahankhalili

yes, one of them did really loved Iran. His name was Versak (If I am not misspelling his name in English). He was an engineer who built the famous bridge of Versak on the way of going to north of Iran. It is close to  SAVAD koh,  where Reza Shah was born. The bridge is still there and his grave is next to that bridge. Iranians call that bridge after his name.

Unlike Americans in Vietname who made a prostitutes out of that nation, Germans were respectful in Iran and they were living in Iran with their families while they were building bridges and roads. One of their buildings in Tehran is Vezarat Daraie, the other one is Kahk Dadgostari (ministry of Justice) and many other roads and buildings. Still exist in Tehran.  

The 2500 year thing was real history that we were not connected

to before him.  It was intentional to move us away from religion towards history and philosophy and science. Did it work?  Not at the time, but today Iranians go to celebrate nowrooz in pasagard in their thousands of their own free will with no one forcing them.  They are now realizing just how important paying respect to Irans traditions are compared with the other crap we had that was not working and is not working for us.  Stupid people all thought if we bring islam , everything will be perfect, yet that was the source of our corruption, duplicity, lack of integrty etc etc, mullahs are the biggest bribing con artists ever as a group. 

People now see what Shah-han-shahi could do for them and how it could improve their lives and bring greater equality and development, how discovering the great values of the past we could use that, not islam as the basis for a great future.  Shah was restoring health and co-operation in iran during his time, our preislamic history is the part we should be proud of because it is the only one that gave, and really gave so much to humanity and iranians.  Those of us that knew his reasons were happy with the results.  He was trying to free Iran from the clutches of corrupt islamic authorities, gradually by liberalizing the people and their views and setting a wedge between them and mullahs.  What is good in iran today is a result of his work, no doubt.  

I don't know where you were living Amirparviz

But I lived in a Monarchist household and "king of kings did not fly". My own parents were laughing their heads off at his arrogance. The only "one" inspired was himself. And his immense ego which overshadowed his wisdom.

I have had it with this BS and am going to call it what it was. A waste of money and a farce. You go dig a really deep hole in the sand an stick your head there. Because in the real world no one took the 2500 year thing serious.

Iranians I knew without exception thought of it as a waste. And foreign leaders went as an obligation. Don't fool yourself Hoveyda was nothing but a puppet of Shah. He did as he was told. If you think there was democracy in Iran you are dreaming.

My view

Most of the criticism he received was disingenuous.  Especially regarding 2500 celebration.  King of Kings is our culture, He used it to inspire pride in people.  It certainly worked for those who Identified him as a patriotic person. 

On, He should have rewarded criticism and listened to them. I didn't know that he didn't, that is correct for any leadership, no discussion=no truth I highly doubt his team were not debating issues.  Most of the stuff done in his name were by people doing what they thought was right, lawful and shah not interferring in their work.  Like Hoveyda shutting down Tofigh due to charicatures making fun of him, in retrospect if I were him I would never have a single paper or expression banned. 

That was the only outlet people had, while the truth is that it was the society that was over confident of itself and thought that they were great big #$$%# and had delusions that they could do a better job than his team, that was totally false pride, when really they couldn't even create institutions yet.  Things were progressing fast and their were serious lacks.

Now decline with no end in sight.

Re: I'm copying a comment from facebook. not mine

What is that going to mean? Facebook like anywhere is filled with opinion. All I said is facts which may be very easily verified. 

If you want to he in a fantasy land it is your right. My ideas are not from new I was there in Iran. Watched as Shah dug his own grave step by step. WIth Jashne Honar to Rastakhiz. Oh and don't forget the change in calendar. As if that was our biggest problem. All pomp; ego and not much substance. Really going around proclaiming himself "Shahnshah" aks 'Shah-e Shahan". Who did he think was being fooled? This was not Cyrus the Great. Shahanshah means king of kings. Who were the other kings? The man was delusional. In reality a satrap of America and Britain. I was in Iran; people laughed at him. Just as they laugh at Khamenei. Another delusional idiot who thinks is the representative of Allah. Power goes to the head and weaker people get more arrogant.

To make it worse people around him were a bunch of "chaploos". He loved it and rewarded them. He should have rewarded criticism and listened to them.

I'm copying a comment from facebook. not mine

Shah was a picture of devotion, and dedication, a wonderful human being. He accomplished A huge job, a great struggle to bring up the standard of life of a poor nation, from education and literacy, to building ALTERNATIVE SOURCE OF INCOME BESIDES OIL ( One of CAUSES OF USING Masses for Irans DESTRUCTION). A major job by a few dedicated PATRIOTS made a real difference.   This was by Ali  "Really VPK, this comment looks like it could have come from you, arj, or parham"  : )  Isn't it funny how the people who's views are part of the problem are the ones who then blame others for praising the shah inappropriately. 

Personally I think you've been listening to the mainstream media far too long, its really not healthy for you if you stopped thinking for yourself, its easy to see victims of the MSM when people start to resort to using unsubstantiated lies, like dictator, megalomaniac, democracy suppressed, human rights abuses to describe the Shahs time.   

Amirparviz

I was holding back but your highly biased portrayal of Shah requires a response. It is just your kind of praises that got to Shahs head and make him a megalomaniac. You may disagree with me but many others will agree.

Shah was the primary reason for his downfall. In other words he generated the environment that led to the IRI. Let us face it IRI would have not been possible without Shah. Here are some of the reasons:

• Repression of all opposition except for that of Mollahs.
• Turning the elective process and parliament into a farce.
• Turning the constitutional system into a dictatorship.
• Banning all political parties except for his hand picked Rastakhiz.
• Requiring all Iranians to join his Rastakhiz party or pack up and go.
• Banned books; publications; anything remotely critical even Tofigh.
• Generated fear in the hearts of all including his supporters thanks to SAVAK
• Implemented arbitrary rules where anyone may be picked up by his whim.
• Promoted Islamism by funding various Islamist institutions.

One may write many books on his mistakes but for now I will stop here. I am sure Arj; Parham or others would be able to add to this if they chose.. Maybe they should; you need to open your eyes but I am not sure you would.

VPK try another way to look at your comments

MRP accomplished A major job for iran with the help of just a few dedicated PATRIOTS.  Those Iranians who said and continue to say to the Shah and his loyal team, "May GOD bless you all", Are they Mistaken?  Are they the ones at fault here?  The older & wiser generation were not surprised to see IRANIAN STUDENT CONFEDERATION, COMMUNIST PARTY (FUNDED BY OIL COMPANIES), all being dissolved once they completed their task in 1975-1979 The person who said "SHAH MUST GO" wasn't he involved in MASS MADNESS  and weren't their teams purged once had no use for them.  Just saying.

VPK You should have stopped at, "Yes USA "betrayed" the Shah"

If you wanted to add anything you might have said, "even many Iranians also betrayed the Shah."  That Carter had come and the USA's goal was to get rid of the shah and support hand picked fundamentalists not representative of the clergy for their own agenda regarding Iran is as clear as the light of day. 

The rest wass wa wa wa wa wa, made up of blames and angers directed against the shah.  I am impressed if this was the early 1980's all I could hear were statements regarding peoples jealousys against the shah and his family, so in a sense your views show iranian progress, if the views are representive of Iranians, maybe if we wait another 30 years you'll be able to see the truth, that betrayal is never acceptable or the fault of the person being betrayed, his personaity or weaknesses, the fault for betrayal lies with the morons that think it is an appropriate way to advance their own selfish inconsiderate goals, not the stories they use to justify it.  Maybe you still have room to grow philosophically. 

I don't buy your interpretation of his character, knowing that his thoughts were to do everything possible to reduce harm and take the most peaceful principalled path.  My recollection is the entire senior command of the military betrayed him and his orders on pressure from huyser, by signing a letter saying the military has no duty to defend the constitution.

More response

Yes USA "betrayed" the Shah. But if Shah wasn't such an egotistical ***hole Iranians would not have hated the guy so much. Then no amount of USA betrayal would have mattered. I held back about the Shah but I will respond.

Shah was a weak minded man; got installed by the Allies. Then lost to Mossadegh and got reinstalled by CIA. Instead of knowing his place he got out of hand. He  alienated Iranians and Americans. Destroyed all civil institutions and kept Mollahs.

Why: because he was superstitious and not willing to take the Mollahs. Result was that when time came they were the only power left. He betrayed his own generals; packed up and ran. That is what he did and RP is following in his foot steps right on!

Rea on fault. Yes complete fault lies with USA.

Do you know the 2 instances fault is all on one side?

Like when one country attacks another with no lawful basis, how all the crimes and deaths that are committed are the fault of the agressor side, even if they win, by definition they are responsible for all deaths/crimes that ensue as a result of the conflict because they are the cause of it, example tony blair/g.w.bush though winners are war criminals.

The other instance is when you are stabbed in the back and betrayed.  The fault is with the aggressor.  So when the USA betrayed the late shah and the curret shah, all the responsibility lies with them.  Is the faux part to do with your own misunderstanding regarding morality and law or is there something else you really wanted me to help you with.

Don't look for answers from vpk, beyond help, reasoning is on off mode completely.

Hitler-phobia

Problems with Hitler-phobia are the same as those with Jew-phobia.

Didn't the Third Reich's engineers play an important role in building the railroad and the tunnels - and the Veresk bridge - that link Iran's Caspian Sea coast to the rest of the country?

Just as Iran benefitted at some point from some Jews, so did it apparently benefit from the Third Reich. 

As far as condemning Hitler for "racism", that's historic revisionism. Hitler was no less racist than any other politician at the time. 

Incidentally, I heard a rumor that some of the engineers died in accidents during the construction, and that their graves can be seen at some point along one of the routes from Tehran to north.

Does anyone know if this is true? 

Rea be specific

some of the Musicians are good, okay well keep them thankyou, the piece being played sounds faux?????  please be specific, regarding it not all being America's fault.  Are you joking or are you just happy to see me.  Do you know what betrayal means????? It put all the blame on one side, not my judgement that's the nature of betrayal.  The one thing that is not discussed today in any book or mentoned anywhere is the Murder of the late Shah, his personal doctor and prme minister, no one discusses this inconvenient truth, do you know why Rea????? Or is it that the song is a sick song, not that my orchestra doesn't play well, they are playing "the big fart of the dumb swan". Its not a happy song Rea, have you ever tried playing a piece like that?

When there is murder and betrayal of a country we don't want to put the fault anywhere other than where it belongs.  Entirley with America.  Do you know that these 3 people all died of the same exact cancer, do you know how they got it or where?  Who would you have all the blame saved for in that instances Rea, You wanna blame the fart, or the dumb swan.  I'd like to see you play "the fart of the dumb swan" any better, it's supposed to sound weird.  Its about a swan that farted its own existence away, hoping for money and ending up worse off for it in every way.  It was not the farts fault, it was the dumb swans, and thats the paradox, because since most people don't have the information they can not clearly see where the fault lies exactly, as in with the USA in this case.

amirparvizfsm & VPK

@amir: you remind me of a conductor whose orchestra doesn't play well. That is, some musicians are good (like some of your arguments) but, overall, the piece being played sounds faux. And it's not all American fault. ;o)

Besides, why should Bachushka be spared criticism? His international politics is not exactly humanitarian work and Sunday's elections were flawed to say the least. As for unchained capitalism, that is precisely what Russia is today. It's just more brutal.

@VPK: Hitler also sent good wishes cables to A.Pavelić, head of Croatian nazi state, yet he despised Slavs. Just as he despised Gypsies, Jews, women, homosexuals, physically & mentally handicapped, and the list is long. Must admit, don't quite understand the reasoning behind this blog.

True who knows what will happen, not me.

As for Russians they gave Iran iranian steel while USA opposed any industry in Iran, they agreed with Shah to 50% of all caspian sea and a return of Irans territories. They realized the mistake of going against Iran.  These are the obvious reasons why they are more of a friend to Iran, than USA is or ever was. 

For now there is no doubt your mindless never ending rant regarding RP is out of Ignorance, the kind of support you have been to RP is welcome with Americans, just keep it there.  I'm sure that you feel the USA betraying the late Shah and RP II is both their fault.

Amirparviz

With all due respect you don't speak for Iranians. Plus you don't know what is going to happen in future. I am going to wrap this up for now because it is getting repetitive. The decision will be in hands of the youth.

Regarding the so called prince "RP" I used to be supportive of him. You managed to get me to wonder about him. Russia is not our friend and much worse than America. None of them bear the fault of total incompetence of RP.

Anyway I had enough of this blame all but RP is golden and never does wrong. Dude RP is history no matter what happens,. If he were a real man he would abdicate now. Then work with others as normal person to help or give it up and retire.

Power/support/people

If RP was working with Russia/China he might be able to remove the regime in 2 years most likely less, but he's not, he's trying for a break through with the USA and its not going to happen, they'll continue to muzzle him and regime will stay. Russia and China have no use for an insecure/unstable regime that is deeply unpopular with its own people and causing them so many problems.  Since RP has all the support he needs within Iran he should use Russia/china by giving them the guarantees they need for the long term.  Maybe he's being cautious waiting for US to be in a different situation/weaker before he moves towards others, so he deals with less risk regarding Irans future.  The more time goes by the less capable the USA/UK are in keeping this regime in power

We are living in a world that is dominated by the USA

My view is that America lost Iran and friendship with Iran for Good, especially based on its manipulative actions today I can't see how anyone can mend the alliance, no amount of Iranians in the USA eating from the &&& of the USA will mend the alliance, just because mullahs are Irans enemy (I agree with you on this) at this point in time looking for help from the USA is a mistake.  Reality check, USA is a declining/plummeting power, financially in 5 years time EU 27 which used have only 55% of US GDP will have 145% US GDP. They are at 115% today, next year is bad but then due to russian energy and deals with russia they'll change the game.

USA is in a catch 22.  It has military commitments that means it has to spend there while depriving the rest of its economy and if it gives up on its military too significantly it loses its positions geopolitically.  Meanwhile EU loves IRI too. Getting rid of IRI we can't go against the deep seated hatred for USA starting to develop with new found consciousness among Iranians, especially once or if the USA starts killing millions of Iranians instead of helping them free themselves.  Getting Rid of IRI needs a change in world order that is happening and divisions between EU/Russia/China.  IRI will screw one of them over and its likely to be EU so there will be the basis for support, that means in the end we'll have to play for Irans interests not USA/EU/Russia/China, USA/UK is not on Irans Freedom side at all, they're on a different mission and in bed with each other too deeply to break it off or serve IRANS interests.  I agree hitler blog is terrible for Iran/shah, it just gave me the opportunity to get some juice and passion back regarding Irans human rights abuses at the hands of the USA, which is not our future ally based on her interests and the game. 

For now RPII 's mistake is not his own, he is surrounded by people who are likely jasoos for UK/USA and they are not there to help him or Iran.

He needs to spend his efforts working with others who have a different agenda or else he can work for 10 more years and get the same results.

this is embarrassing

 Hitler's "deep respect" for Iranian culture is something to ignore, NOT FLAUNT !!!

Amirparviz

I am not here to be the judge of America or anyone. I want to see action to rescue Iran. What I see is people hiding behind "America is big" to do nothing. Once again I will summarize my position:

• I think this blog is bad for our image. The thing Iran does not need is to be associated with Hitler. The IRI has done a fine job of painting Iran as antisemitic. Do we need to add Hitler to it.
• I want Iran to be rid of Islamic Republic as soon as possible. Would you please tell me how beating up on America helps this? Whether America has race problems or not makes little difference to my goal. Getting rid of the damn Islamic ***.

VPK some Iranians have become so American its a shame

With a record like America's to find offense in relating Americans to Hitler goes to show how far down the road some Iranians have gone to selling out Iran for America, that is dispicable, why I say this is because any other person on this site can tell you for a fact that no matter how disgusting hitler was as a human being he didn't do 1/1000 the harm to Iranians as Americans have done.  If Objectivity is a hard thing to grasp today hopefully some part of the truth of this message will sink in over time.  Hiroshima alone would give an unbiased person reason to compare Americans less favourably than hitler, during the same era, forget the native Americans and Slavery. Sell outs are a dime a dozen among iranians I have found.

I would add that the USA did not have any more nuclear bombs to kill any more people, if they had they would have killed as many people as they possibly could, I find it simply shocking that some people can not see the comparisons between Hitler and the USA. From an inhumanty standpoint.

Responses

• Rea: I agree 100% a man who does not respect humans is not worth it. Maybe he did "admire" some Iranians but what about the rest. What did he plan to do with the darker Iranians: I bet Gas Chambers were on top of his plan.
• AO: You are right. Iranians were pissed off a British and Russians for good reason. Hitler wanted to use it as you said. He may have sympathized with Iranians plight over Islam. I have not read Main Kampf so I don't know.
• Amirparviz: I find your relating Americans to Hitler offensive. Yes America has its problems but not as you say. You blame all our problems on America including RP's incompetence. How about a bit of personal responsibility.

rea well said on Hitler not respecting culture or people

I mean the guy despised humanity like you said, almost as much as Americans as I've said, in both cases their actions speak so loudly who cares what manipulations they put out.  Its for love, for human rights, for democracy, for goodness, somehow Hitler wasn't quite as harmful, after the Native American, The Africans even today and recently the middle easterners the USA really needs to be encouraged to find respect for humanity, this whole murder, exploit, torture, humiliate, steal, poison, pollute policy is not earning any sense of admiration from any intelligent person I know of.  It is hilarious to see the USA Criticizing Putin and Russians, considering how disgusting the USA is today with its unchained capitalism for humanity as a whole.  As Iranians we shouldn't be soft on the USA, it is a big mistake and we will regret it if ignore their actions towards humanity and Iranians.

Hitler tried to capitalize on Middle East's frustration with

British and French colonialism as a tool to forge alliances with them for obvious reasons: disruptning British military plans, reduce British influence, have a foothold next to Russia, etc.  That's why he also met with the grand mofti of Egypt.

That being said, I think he does have a quote in the Mein Kampf about Iran.  I read the book several years ago in college, but I think that the quote is from the Mein Kampf if I'm not mistaken. Something to the effect of Arabs laying waste to an Aryan land...something to that effect if I remember correctly. 

Regarding Token Negros like Obama fixing America's Image

I don't think the electing Obama Ploy did the Job.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJtZZ1QHOp4

Human Rights abuses are no less rampant today under Obama than they were under Bush or the last 300 years in general.  Torture is still done, actually its now worse moving to all Americans, I guess Obama's slogan, "Yes we can", meant something entirely different that what most were thinking.  //rt.com/usa/news/detention-legislation-tortu...

Some people feel Racial profiling as it occurs everyday in America in all kinds of organizations is not Racism, I disagree, for me it is Racism.  For me looking to America seriously in Terms of Human Rights, in comparison to the Late Shah is the height of stupidy and disgrace, the reason we have mullahs in power today, instead of the Freedom we had with a Decent Honest King.

VPK Regarding moi, I don't look at all Iranian, whiter than Masser, however I did experience Racism later when people learned I was not vite engelish.

It's somewhat naive to assume

..... that the mentally deranged & sexually frustrated Austrian respected any particular people or their culture, given he had no respect for humanity as a whole.

Re: AnyOne here think we should start a Blog on Americans???????

It was done a long time ago by Niloufar Parsi :-) My advise is don't bother. This is IC not Americans.com. I am not here to beat up on Americans and see no point in it. How will it help us address our problems: it won't.

Regarding Amirparviz's experience with Americans:

• He did get bid into a Fraternity so I guess Americans are not THAT racist.
• Racism is complex and depends on many factors. I have felt it for sure but really depending on where I lived. I found the two coasts to be much better places.

No society particularly America is frozen and static. They change; things once unthinkable are normal. Imagine gay marriage or a black president 20 years ago.