Iranian Protestors Clash at Pershing Square
laist.com / Zach Behrens
23-Aug-2008 (20 comments)

Not a lot of people showed up to "No War on Iran" protest earlier this month on Saturday, August 3rd. Apparently, word didn't get around activist groups e-mail lists and only a small gathering of people showed up to Pershing Square that afternoon. One LAist commenter, jrb, was there and helps put a story to LAist Photographer Tom Andrews' photos. "There was the usual speeches and such. Then about 20-30 pro war on Iran people showed up.

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Darius Kadivar

FYI/Khamenei Endorses Ahmadinejad for Second Term

by Darius Kadivar on


Darius Kadivar

Anonymous8 I believe in Solidarnosc Iranian Style

by Darius Kadivar on

First of all I prefer to be able to choose my friends and not have an anonymous Fish Eye like you do that for me or tell me who my friends should be in the name of some kind of political correctness and moral superiority which he or she and definitively not you could claim to have especially under anonimity as is your case and of other critics here. Nor do I have to communicate to you who they are or who they aren't.

  Second: No I do not believe that All Anti War Protestors are necessarily Pro IRI or IRI Agents. But what stops Pro-IRI's to mingle with them under anonymity like so many unregistered writers and bloggers on this site who want to make us think that Ahamadinejad is the New Mossadegh. They are Not Only Wrong BUT Naive.

  Third I have NEVER been Supporting an Attack on my homeland be it even in a Surgical Attack. Do you think that those who oppose the IRI don't have family members in Iran, cousins, aunts or friends who may also live close to the nucleare sites in question and are indifferent to their predicament ? If you do your an idiot at best.  As if you anonymous Fish Eyes ( who don't even have the guts to sign with your real names and take responsability for your opinions but feel free to indulge in personal attacks when it suits you and in perfect anonimity) turned into Staunch Last Minute Patriots were in a position to give moral lessons to me or anyone who critisizes the IRI on accounts that they are nothing more than a bunch of crooks ( And I maintain this assessment that ALL the IRI in its entirety is composed of Crooks and Thugs as much as anyone who directly or indirectly supports their political and historical record which needs no exageration: A DISASTER).

Why should we be a hostage to the Political Agenda of a Regime that has not had the single interest of its people on its mind in the Past 30 years of existance and suddenly is seen as having all the virtues of a patriotic regime.
  Fourth I have denounced violence whenever it has been applied by whatever group, and for whatever reason.
  Fifth:  I believe in Dialogue with any person or organization that holds the IRI accountable for its DISASTROUS Human Rights Record. This seems to be recently the case for NIAC ( I mention NIAC Only because YOU refered to them and not me, my critics were directed to AIC and Not to NIAC ) and Trita Parsi and I welcome their stance on this and wish them success in their endeavors ( I believe that I have expressed this before if you cared to read my posts regularly) even if I do not share all their views from a strategic and political point of view. I do not think that it is however the case for AIC and its Clownesque Founder Dr. Amir Ahmadi who goes as far as to shake hands with a man that asks for the destruction of another country and denies one of the greatest tragedies in the history of mankind: The Holocaust and with the benediction of all the most extremist supporters of a long buried ideology: Nazism. Look at the Blond Blue Eyed Neo Nazi Lady Michele Renouf with a known and controversial record denying calmly and cynically the reality of Holocaust :"What is the Reality of this gas Chamber ?"

 

  And you guys want to calmly also give the current regime the right to speak in the name of our Rights and Economic interests ? What Credibility does the IRI and its Henchmen have to use their regular tactics of manipulation and hostage taking to now even take OUR PATRIOTISM Hostage in the name of our so called nucleare and economic Rights ?
 
  I personally Refuse to be a hostage of the Islamic Republic on EVERY ACCOUNT I can think of.

  I don't trust this regime nor think that its henchmen and Leader Khamenei should be given the moral and military authority to press on the Red Button. They are jeapordizing on a daily basis the safety of our people and their long term political and economic interests and I will never consider giving them that pleasure. Which does not mean that I will ever support a military strike on my country by any foreign power what so ever. But I definitvely and unambiguously DO SUPPORT Regime Change as I have for the past 30 years.
  The True question which you have ALL FAILED to ASK is How ? And my answer is: I do not know How, I just Know Why I support Regime Change in Iran ?

  I'm not God, a Saint and never claimed to be a soothsayer, all I can say without the slightest hesitation and with strong conviction as a Free Thinking Citizen is that this cannot be achieved if we do not give a chance to the Iranian Civil Society in the making.

  If we refuse to listen to the words of wisdom and tolerance from people like Abbas Milani, Mrs Azar Nafisi, Iranian Human Rights Activists, artists, intellectuals, Filmmakers, actors or anyone who is contributing in a constructive way in bridging Iranians with one another beyond political, social, religious and ideological backgrounds then we are certainly heading towards an unpredictable and sad conclusion for all concerned.
  On a daily basis journalists, bloggers, human rights activists are being arrested, threatened and intimidated without the slightest vigourous reaction and support by the Iranian Diaspora community at large more concerned by the next Mehregan Celebration or the Results of the next Soccer Championship than to demonstrate for a common cause and that is the Respect of Human Rights in our country to begin with, and secondly a united front similar to what the Polish did with Solidarnosc.
The Iranian Diaspora is one of the richest and most successful community of immigrants in the world and not just in America and we behave like a bunch of Bazari Minded and unimaginative immigrant communities in the world by refusing to take responsabilities for our opinions or actions in the name of nationalism AND NOT Democracy.
  By doing so we are simply contributing to internal division and suspicion between ourselves as a political community in the making. Let me add that I do not believe in the efficiency of ANY of the current political opposition groups outside Iran but I do respect those who have been struggling against the IRI for decades however clumsily and inefficiently including the mediocre LA TV Stations except that I do not share their strategy nor their radical positions and often simplistic solutions because it has not only proved inefficient but also morally condemnable when it comes to asking Iranians inside Iran to take useless risks and endanger their lives and that of their family members in openly fighting the IRI. On the other hand since one of you posted the riot at the NIAC meeting in LA ( a city where all these opposition channels have been booming their propaganda programs against the IRI into Iran) that NIAC was looking for trouble and one triggered by their own provocation: Asking the US government in the name of all Iranian Americans to stop financing Opposition TV's ). That was very clumsy and unfair of them to start with given that they claimed to be politically neutral and yet were taking a political stance by their contradictory request.  Personally I support NIAC's efforts but as I said previously I do not share their strategy one of which was also to clamp down on the monarchists on grounds of the events 1953 and the scars of the Mossadegh-Shah rivalry. Something of general knowledge that I believe is more of concern to historians than to the Iranian American community. It also contributed  (maybe unwillingly and unintentionally by Triita Parsi and NIAC founders) to wrongly in my opinion of identifying Ahmadinejad's nuclear claims ( but also military ambitions) with that of Dr. Mossadegh's struggle for Iran's economic and political independance ( including the respect of Human Rights) . Something that the IRI fails on both accounts. Oil independance did not give Iran a military capacity of destruction where as nuclear technological know how in the hands of a government that has a history of sponsoring Terrorism does. Regarding the unfortunate incidents in LA I insist that ANY FORM OF VIOLENCE SHOULD BE CONDEMNED. But wanting to use the current nucleare crisis as an argument to overlook the Human Rights Record of the Islamic Republic and to encourage all Iranians in the Diaspora to feel guilty when they critisize the Iranian regime, seems to me a hypocritical stance. I am Happy that from this point of view NIAC has distinguished itself from an organization like AIC.
  But I would also like to say to those who criticized my comments on this blog that I won't accept to be accused of being a radical monarchist or radicla secularist or radical anything simply because I support the idea of a truly democratic Iran be it as a Constitutional and Secular Monarchy or a Secular Democratic Republic for my country depending on our compatriots final choice if free elections were possible in my country. If people who share the same idea behave violently that's their problem not mine even if I will openly critisize them but I won't accept the distortion which consists of reducing constitutional monarchists, secular republicans, mossadeghi's or any other political group which respects human rights and the ideals of democracy  and democratic rule to a bunch of unimaginative bazaris running TV's in LA or elsewhere and some of who may are radical minded intolerant activists who resort to violence or foul language to express their views. That is not my case and I very much doubt is the case for most Iranians living outside regardless of their opinions or political preferences. As far as I am concerned I am not a member of any political party and have the right to have an opinion or political preference as long as I respect your opinion. What makes your newly found Patriotism ( expressed so boldy under anonimity) superior or more noble to mine ?
  Everyone Deserves Respect for their opinions (including you who express it so boldy in total anonimity) even if they differ from mine. I expect the same when it comes to my opinion as a free citizen who equally loves my country and is concerned by its future. That is why I have always believed that we as a community and particularly in the Diapora should support and maybe instigate a movuement like Solidarnosc in Poland for our country. A Mouvement like Solidarnosc did not make a distinction between people of different political and social backgrounds. They even accepted former communists, left wing and right wing intellectuals, even monarchists. It was FIRST AND FOREMOST a Social and Intellectual Mouvement and NOT a Political party. It is because of this that the Western Democracies realized that the Polish People were struggling not only for their freedom but also for an ideal of social justice and evergrowing civil rights demands that ultimately brought down the military regime of Jaruzelski but also the Iron Curtain.
  We need such a movement in a near future that would unite Iranians across the political spectrum From Secular Republicans to Constitutional Secular Monarchists to Mossadeghis, left and right wing parties or any other progressive party that unlike the MKO ( But their members would be welcome if they give up on violence and terrorism and if they do not have a criminal record) for instance refuse violence and terrorist actions by principle.
  Through such a movement one can not only propagate and accelerate solidarity between Iranians outside Iran but also channel the voices of Iranians Inside who do not have this freedom of expression and who would feel that element of moral support and security that is being denied to them on a daily basis by the current regime in Iran.
  In my humble opinion to achieve such results we should seek unity on a series of universal principles:  like Human Rights and individual rights to start with but also encourage dialogue and tolerance between Iranians of different backgrounds and opinions so as to avoid the unfortunate typcasting and conspiracy theories for which we all tend to be accused of at some point.
  That is why I claim that I support Regime Change from a Solidarnosc point of view which cannot be accused either supporting War on Iran nor be accused of Supporting the Islamic Republic of Iran and its current Fascist oriented ideology in search of international respectability.

  On a  final note May I quote  Shapour Bakhtiar who refused ALL Dictatorships including Fascism and Nazism during WWII and Fought them with Courage and determination while resisting the tides of intolerance that mounted with the Islamic Revolution of 79 and to the ultimate Sacrifice :
 
  "IRAN HARGEZ NAKHAHAD MORD"
  My humble opinion too. 

Dariush KADIVAR

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Darius: excellent so you are in agreement

by Anonymous8 (not verified) on

that antiwar activists couldn't possibly be pro IRI.

Now tell that to your trigger happy friends with their endless accusations. (Remember what this news item is all about).


Darius Kadivar

Shirazi 1964 : IRI welcome an Attack ...

by Darius Kadivar on

Yes I believe the IRI would welcome an Attack and I am not the only one to claim this. Professor Abbas Milani who is anything but a fanatic monarchist or stubborn headed Mossadeghi claims the same. Does that make him a Pro War On Iran activist too or a Traitor ? I entirley Share Mr. Milani's assessment:


Darius Kadivar

Yawn ...

by Darius Kadivar on

You suffer from the Dr. StrangeLove Syndrom. Stop watching too many movies ...


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Who is using whom?

by Shirazi 1964 (not verified) on

Some people on this website (including Mr. Kadivar, unless I'm mistaken) have previously asserted that the IRI would welcome an attack by the U.S. (presumably because it would allow the regime to gain support from the Iranian populace and thereby consolidate its power). If the IRI would indeed welcome an American attack, wouldn't it make more sense for Iran's current government to manipulate and promote the pro-war movement? I'm not saying that I necessarily buy the argument that the IRI wants the U.S. to attack, but the issue of whether the pro-war movement is actually serving the regime's interests is at least worth considering.


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this is typical EYEranian double standard

by Anonymous8 (not verified) on

You are 100% biased. you call people who CALL FOR PEACE, "iri supporters" but people who CLAIM TO SUPPORT WAR should not be called "pro war"???

You excuse people who ENGAGE IN VIOLENCE but still attack those who stand for peace?

Why are you making excuses for the people who themselves say they want war? But you are quick to jump on peace protesters like a rabid attack dog?

I don't care if anybody meets Ahmadinejad, it does not take away from any peace message. Making peace means speaking to your enemy. Understand?

These people are violent agitators who do not understand freedom of speech. They live their own pro war message. But they are your heros?

I have another video for you Daryush Khadivar.


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Anonypishi

by Fishmonger (not verified) on

She's rooting for pro-paece group!

BTW, what an unpleasant sight!


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There is this picture of a lady

by Anonypishi (not verified) on

wearing short brown dress; I am just wondering, which side she is on?!!! (the 11th photo)


Farhad Kashani

The IRI regime uses the so

by Farhad Kashani on

The IRI regime uses the so called “pro peace” (!!) movement to further their Islamic fundamentalist agenda, beat more and more on the war drum and continue to oppress the Iranian people more savagely.

 

There is only one way to avoid , or significantly minimize the chances, a war on Iran, now and in the future, and that is the removal of the Islamic regime. Any  so called “pro peace” movement that is not asking for the removal of the regime and is blaming the U.S Iran feud on anyone else, let it be “Zionists”, Israel”, :America”, “Aliens”…is acting as the biggest pro war movement.

 


Anonymous4now

Thank you Darius for the

by Anonymous4now on

Thank you Darius for the post.  I learnt a lot from it.

It is interesting to note how elitist this self proclaimed lobbyist is and how he considers Iranians incapable of making a suitable choice for themselves in a referendum.  By definition a referendum would give them what they want, and if they are as ignorant and as uninformed as he claims they are, then they will hold another referendum and another until they get it right.  He thinks he is the one who should be dictating the conditions on the ground for their salvation.  That’s what the Shah believed which caused his demise in the end.  He proclaims to be looking toward a future for Iran with his backward looking mentality.  It is also very interesting to me that this self proclaimed leader on behalf of Iranians has a following amongst the so called education in exile.  How feeble and weak minded of us Iranians.   

  


Darius Kadivar

FYI/Amir Ahmadi of AIC (American Iranian Council) (youtube)

by Darius Kadivar on

Again I do not share or support any violent behavior whatsoever regardless of which camp is doing it. Violence should be condemned and discouraged whenever it takes place and all should be done to avoid it but the Anti War Mouvement is also being manipulated by Pro IRI lobbies in the US like AIC whose founder has regularly been traveling to Iran to meet its leaders like Ahmadinejad. The first photo is not a photocomposition however the other photos are silly compositions to illustrate the interview. I have no particular resentment for Amir Ahmadi but I have listened to his interviews on VOA and other occasions and he appears to be at best very naive but he has never been very clear in his positions regarding the leaders of the IRI and their responsabilities in regard to Human Rights Violations.


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If Regime Change = Pro-War, then Anti-War = Regime Support

by observer2 (not verified) on

This is according to the crooked logic of Mr/Ms Q :))


Farhad Kashani

Q, even that guy didn’t

by Farhad Kashani on

Q, even that guy didn’t say (And I’m sure didn’t mean) a full scale war on Iran. He is clearly distinguishing between a “surgical attack” and a “full scale war”. Yes, there are many who support that, unfortunately, and most of them are due to the frustration this regime has caused the Iranians, and let me tell you, that population is growing, specially inside Iran who support that “surgical attack”, unfortunately also. Of course, they don’t know that any surgical attack, will definitely lead to a full scale war. This regime has oppressed our people in a way that people are looking for any way to get rid of them, even if they don’t know the full consequences. That’s why I mean the best way to stop a war against Iran, is not to bash “AIPAC”, or “U.S”, or “Arabs”, or “Israel”, or “Zionsit Conspiracy”, or any of that baseless attacks, but, rather to remove the regime. The Iranian people have been taking hostage between a regime that is beating on the war drum for the last 30 years and between a world that is running out of patience with the war mongering regime


Anonymous4now

IRI in turmoil

by Anonymous4now on

روز شنبه (پانزدهم دی) سایت های خبری متعلق به گروه‌های اصلاح طلب ایران از قول آقای طاهری نقل کردند که "ادامه نظارت استصوابی یعنی مرگ انقلاب و مرگ قانون اساسی."

سایت های فوق همچنین به نقل از این روحانی نوشته اند که وی از "امید بستن مردم به بیگانگان برای نجات خود" ابراز نگرانی کرده و نتیجه "عمل چند نفر به خلاف رضایت مردم" را "شکست انقلاب" دانسته است.

 

//www.bbc.co.uk/persian/iran/story/2008/01/080106_mv-az-taheri-elections.shtml

 


mash mandali

Q

by mash mandali on

I'm talking about the comment you copy and pasted here.

You've got to be kidding me if you take this guy serious!

Just click on his name and track his comments! he (M. Ghaffari) is the biggest sell out that there is out there.

I think EVEN pro MEK people would spit on his face!

What a disgrace.

 


Q

Kashani, you doubt wrong, here's proof

by Q on

but I doubt any Iranian, inside or outside LA, is “pro war”.

This is what I found after a short search on Iranian.com. I did not count Zio-fascists whom I don't consider Iranian and anonymous bomb-throwers who would also prove my point, but who are not credible. But here's one LA Iranian who proves you wrong:

---------------------------
I support it
by mahmoudg on Tue Jul 22, 2008 05:27 PM CDT

I and many thousands if not millions support a surgical attack. The US does not have to send the troops in, but pounding of the regimes assets with do the job. Just talk to the Iranians in Iran who are wishing for Iran to become the 51st State of the Union!! This type of thiking shows that the pysche is ready for military removal of the regime.
---------------------------

Your baseless attacks on me aside, we have nothing to gain by pretending these people do not exist. Pro-war fascists are real. MEK is real. Iranians have never had a shortage of "Ahmad Chalabi" type traitors throughout history.


Farhad Kashani

Darius , don’t listen to

by Farhad Kashani on

Darius , don’t listen to this nonsense. Just like when they are pro IRI but they don’t come out and say it, they think others are just like them. Their biggest trick, which is long has lost any effectiveness, is that they hide under the cover of “pro peace” to 1- bash the U.S, and Bush particularly 2- Apologize and legitimize the fascist regime in Iran. If anyone causes war on Iran, it’s them.

 

I understand that some people might get really frustrated to the point that they can’t think clearly, but I doubt any Iranian, inside or outside LA, is “pro war”.

 

I think Jahanshah aziz is a true pro peace Iranian. He has good intentions.


Q

Kadivar, they are ABSOLUTELY pro war

by Q on

Darius, what do you think pro-war people look like, do you think they advertise "please bomb and kill Iranians now!" ?

No, Darius, even Bush and Cheney doesn't SAY he wants war, all they do is make sure there is no other options.

When we are talking about serious NUCLEAR crisis and someone says "No dialogue", what do you think that means? That's exactly what Bush said before the Iraq invasion: "the time for talk is over." Orders, ultimatums, sanctions and offensive provocation is how you get into wars in the 21st century.

These people are absolutely pro war. They are not just Shahollahis many of them are MEK members. They have decided that changing the regime is a higher priority than peace. You can tell by the fake photographs (of the woman being stoned) that they are nothing but stooges of the neocons and the violent, former stalinist, wing of the republican party.

I have talked to and dealt with these people for a long time. The only reason they no longer carry outright pro-war signs is because they realize it's a big turnoff with their own supporters. But in 2003 and 2004, they didn't even hide those signs.

The reporter was spot on.


Darius Kadivar

I don't See Pro War Iranians ?

by Darius Kadivar on

Sorry JJ, but the photos don't indicate that the protestors were supporting WAR with Iran but Regime Change WITHOUT War:

See Photo  :

//laist.com/2008/08/22/iranian_protestors_clash_at_pershin_1.php?gallery10263Pic=8#gallery

That there were clashes is unfortunate and most probably triggered by the regular Crowd of Shahollahis ( I.e: L.A. TV stations) against Anti War Demonstrations. I don't share their behaviour BUT there is no evidence in the slogans that were carried or printed here that they were calling for WAR. The Reporter doesn't seem to have made the distinction either.