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American wife

There is a decent book called:

Another general historical reading by a great american historian and philosopher: History of Civilization by William and Ariel Durant.

There are other books that can be of help but the first one on the subject of Iran is a decent one as the author was a former state department Iran desk officer and if I recall corectly taught in Iran and speaks Farsi.

The Durants dont need any introduction by me. Just a must read.

smhb

Well, yes, you did use the word resentment.  In a comment specifically and then inferred in the long list of "dislikes" regarding foreign involvement.  It's a logical step to take...:-)   Like I said, I have no problem with that.  Hate was of course in the title as you indicated.  But I did not imply that you hated Americans.  I asking a specific question looking for a clarification OF your opinion.

I point I want to strongly make.  Uninformed most certainly does NOT mean ignorant.

I'd like to rephrase your comment with regard to my desire to learn more.  It won't be a singular effort to learn more about IRAN and how she feels based on HER propoganda machine.  Nor will it be exclusively a US based history lesson.  I'm in the minority here of believing there are two sides of every story and I don't necessarily think that information coming from individuals who usually post on IC are objective.  Subjective opinions are formed right and left here, thus creating the chaos and confusion and hate and discontent.  My determination is to form an opinion based on facts, not simply rhethoric. 

I'm assuming that my conclusion will include alot of what you say.  But not necessarily all.

American wife

Hate or resent? I am confused. Did I use any of these two verbs anywhere in my responses? Or perhaps you are refering to the healine selected for the original article that has become the subject of this discussion. Or........

Either way a bit of clarification is in order.

On a personal level I dont hate Americans at all. Why would I? I do disagree very strongly with American foreign policy and hence I formulate my thoughts and express my opinions as it should be.

I can also say with a high degree of certainty that most Iranians dont hate the American people in any shape or form. If there is any typa hatred I have not expereinced it as of this date.

I do beleive that one has to understand that the discourse is about the elite and those who formulate policies and implement it and its impact on other peoples lives and not the average citizen.

I also do beleive that simply saying I am uninformed and therefore ignorant is no remedy for any such serious issues as the US governement uses our ignorance to pursure policies in our name that at the end tarnishes the good name and image of the American people.

I commend you for first asking the question and second making a commitment to yourself and everyone else to pursue this important subject as it affects all of us.

Please be advised that once you learn about Iran and the sad and tragic course of events that shaped US-Iranian relationships you can pretty much apply that with some modifications to other colonized societies and get a decent understanding of whats going on.

When it comes to current events if you are interested in analysis on various issues please check: www.antiwar.com and www.globalresearch.ca 

There are other sources but this will be a good start. The first one is run by libertarians and there are contributors from the left and the right.

Enjoy.

smhb

Hate or resent?  Two different emotions.  DO you hate Americans?  Do YOU think most Iranians do?  I hope not... I most sincerely hope not.  Resent?  Well, hell yeah.  I have no problem with that.  I resent that the Brits have held Ireland hostage for hundreds of years.  I resent even more that the Irish have put up with it.  I resent the same SOB Brits of keeping early colonies under their thumb.  We DID do something about THAT.  I resent my mom for making me clean up my room before going out Saturday morning.  But I don't hate her.  (notice I didn't say I didn't hate Brits....:-)

Resentment is a reaction against what we perceive as an unfair (or fair, I guess) action against us. 

So.  If you WANT peace between Iran and America... and I would assume you would, try to use a word that makes it a little more tolerable.  If you say you hate me, I'm not sure I'm going to make an effort to be friends with you.  I don't know my history regarding Iran well at all.  I'll be the first to admit that.  I get my information 99% here and from my husband.  Surely you'd admit that there is bias.  I'll consider it my duty to learn more. 

What kind of misleading

What kind of misleading title is this? Of course Iranians DO NOT hate the U.S. We are famous for that. A few leftist and Islamists, like the ones on this website, hate the U.S, true, and thats out of jealousy and enviousness, but the vast majority of Iranians are friends of the U.S and admire its greatness and values. Don't you remember the time when Abdi and Ghazian conducted a poll in Iran showing most Iranians are friends with the U.S and that landed them in jail!!?? What a ridicules title. We, as Iranians, love the U.S.

Simple arithmatics

Mr. Porroo,

Again you are missing the point. You state an obvious. In a negotiation there is give and take. Now if the negotiation is between equals it takes one format and if it is between unequals it takes a different route.

First of all I am not so sure that there will be a grand bargain where the US will provide Iran with security guarantees and etc...

Remember the Algiers accord? Explain to me what part of that accord has been honored by Washington? Perhaps the non-interference aspect of the accord? Or maybe ......

Lets deal with reality and facts, Iran is in a much stronger position today than 10 or 20 years ago. Whereas the empire is facing financial implosion and bankruptcy, defeat in Iraq, certain defeat in Afghanistan, massive debts and an incoming economic crisis that can reck havoc on the social fabric of this country, and etc......

To be honest with you I dont see any reason why Iran would negotiate with Washington when the empire is still under the illusion that its weilding as much power and influence as 10 years ago. The facts and realities dont match empires behavior, arrogance and ignorance.

Therefore, another year or two when things sink in with the elite here and the geo-political map of the world shifts a lot more under their feet then there may not be a need to negotiate as the empire will face collapse as we see it and know it. As we speak all major players on world scene are preparing for that eventuality and new alliances are being formed and shaped to take advantage of that scenario.

The US and Iran will meet and address some immediate critical issues which wont even be tactical let alone discuss major strategic issues.

The ME is on the verge of a massive upheavel so it can finally free itself from neo-colonial and imperial domination for the first time since the break up of the Ottoman empire. This change is a combination of resistance to empire and the over extension of imperial ambitions and subsequent demise.

We are witness to a monumental event that is slowly unfolding in front of our very eyes. 

Iran is well positioned to take full advantage of this scenario, thats all.

Time will tell. In the meantime fasten your seat belts as its gonna be a very bumpy ride my friend.

Simple arithmatics

Abarmard joon;

Haj agha, mullahs cannot both have the cake and eat it too.

Grievances aside, mullahs will not be able to ask America to lift the sanctions, return all of Iran's frozen assets, guarantee security, etc. etc. if they want to go on throwing parties in Tehran, inviting Esmaeel Hanieh, Hassan Nasrollah, Muqtada Sadr and other losers showering them with petrodollars, arms and ammunitions.

Mu'ammar Qaddafi gave in before the sanctions against Libya were lifted and relations were normalized.

Obama or whoever will not be that dumb to give something without taking something back. Even if Obama is ignorant enough to do so, pro-Israeli Biden will not go for it. The Jewish Lobby will not go for it. You know that!

To smhb

Dear friend, you and I plus this fellow TAKMEZRABI "Abarmard" know very well that there is give and take in any kind of bargain and negotiation to put it in layman's terms.

Regardless of what America (or the Empire as you call it) has or has not done or what crimes she has committed, the bottomline is that If mullahs want to establish ties with the U.S., they should be willing to give something to take something back in return and I bet a complete halt to any sort of financial and logistical support by mullahs to those groups you call "the resistance groups" are the number one or two priority on America's list of demands from Iran and I don't believe there is any room for compromise here PERIOD

American wife, Ita not a

American wife,

Ita not a matter of blame my lady. But like any conflict there is an
origination point. Someone provokes a fight. The deliberate short term
memory of US media and elite and their constant reinforcement of
distorted facts and disemination of lies requires an honest and clear
response. Specially when a lot of people just manage to repeat the same
lines. Over time they become the TRUTH!!!!

When you go in front of a judge and there is an investigation into acrime or an incident there is
always the rule to reconstruct the events from the begining so a clear
picture can be constructed and a verdict rendered.

The conflicted and sad US-Iranian relationship has a begining and a
historical context that should be understood in order to move forward.

In the selective and 30 second sound bite version of history the corporate media
and the corporate sponsored pundits like us all to beleive that US is the aggrieved party
and everything wrong started with the take over of the US embassy in
Iran. Not to mention other percieved acts of aggression by Iran in
places like Lebanon, Palestine and now Iraq.

Mr. Saeed Tabrizi,

I beg to differ Sir. There is no instant of a large and significant
muslim country that the communists ever had or will have a chance to
take over and rule. Iran is one of them. If you understand the culture
and the religious zeal of the Iranians then the matter will become
clear.

However I do agree with the implication of your comment in so far as
that the Tudeh party was very well organized and influential amongst the
workers specially the oil industry workers in the south and the
intellectuals. The also had officers in influential positions within the military and police.

owever the massess of the people were always listening very closely to the religious leaders and that has not changed to date.
The influence of the Shitte ulema is obvious for all to see,just look
at places like Lebanon and Iraq and the role they play in opposing
colonial, neo-colonial and imperial advances and how the massess
respond to their calls at the right moment.

I do agree with you that the threat of an American nuclear strike
against the Soviet Union (first threat of its kind) was instrumental in
getting the Soviets out of Iranian territory.

But then again I dont look very favorably to an allied invasion of Iran either.

I dont look very favorably to an american and british operation that overthrew Mossadegh.

I dont look very favorably to a CIA, MI6 and Mossad creation of SAVAK,
its training in the art of torture and interrogation and helping SAVAK
track dissidents all over the country and the planet.

I dont look very favorably to Iran being turned into a known torture
academy for secretservices of despotic regimes like Chile, South
Africa, South Korea, Argentina, Philipines and ...........

I also dont look very favorably in turning Iran into a military base to
support imperialist - zionist control of the ME and beyond and turning
the Iranian military into an extension of empire to crush the locals.

I dont look very kindly on the fact that the US supported his majesty
the little shah and his brutal efforts to quel the massive uprisings
during the 1978 revolution which resulted in approximately 50,000 deads
and over 130,000 injuries.

The
case of the Jaleh square where over 4000
unarmed demonstrators were gunned down in bright day light and then the
US president and his national security advisors expression of their
solid
support for his majesty and firm handling of the crisis should be
illuminating.

I dont look very kindly at the US interference in the domestic affairs
of Iran after the revolution to creat instability, uprisings, civil
strife and .....

I dont like the fact that the US instigated Saddam into attacking Iran
and then gave him chemical and biological markers where he managed to
weaponize the chemical markers and use them against Iranian troops and
Kurdish civilians. I dont forget what Ronald Reagan said after the
gassing of the Kurds in Halabche. You should go and check it out for
yourself.

Unfortunately the list is too long but this should suffice.

smhb

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll follow up on that book.  I'd like to think that most people will recognize that there's plenty of blame to go around.  I think it's time to move forward, not continue going backward.   

Dear smhb

good points. Thanks

To: smhb

I disagree.
I think Iranians were very concerned about a communist takeover of Iran in 1953, and actually were relieved that monarchy was secured.
I, for one, am glad that I grew up in the Western capitalistic camp, and not under the communism.
Also, we owe the rescue of Azerbaijan, partially to the Americans.
So in my book, I don't have anything against the US.

God bless.

What a nerve!

My dear friend Porroo,

Nice name!!! Very funny :))). I think you miss the point, slightly. But then again I could be wrong. One never knows.

The US is an imperial power and has bases all over the planet. It has a massive presence in the ME completely surrounding Iran not because they love Iran and Iranian peopel but for the very fact of plundering Iran's natural and human resources to maintain and expand the empire.

Also do remember that Iran was dominated by the US for a long period of time and not the other way around.

Iran does not have nuclear armed aircraft carriers and warships off the coast of NY and CA. Iran does not have military bases and ground troops in Canada and over 300,000 military personnel and mercenaries in Mexico. 

Iran does not have dozens of secret military bases all over Central America training Americans in the art of assassination, bombings, sabotage, and etc.. to be used on the mainland to destabilize and overthrow the US governement.

Iran did not instigate the Canadian government to launch a war of aggression against the US and supply them with chemical weapons to be used against American civilian and military targets.  

Should I go on is that sufficient?

Now if you listen to the corporate owned media who are the mouth pieces of the empire, no one on this planet has the right to resist and defend themselves against blanket acts of aggression by the empire. How dare they resist? Those who do resist must be a bunch of lunatics and terrorists and backward morons who dont uderstand democracy and modernity. 

Remember what they used to call Premier Mossadegh? Go look it up?

Remember what they used to call Nelson Mandela? Go look that up too.

Remeber what they use to call Salvador Allende? Go look it up?

Refresh your selective memory my friend.

So, when you are talking about Iran negotiating the fate of resistance groups in the ME with the US you are missing another important fact.

The fate of these forces is not in Iran's hands. These are not the Tudeh party, answerable to the Soviet Politbioro or the MEK who have been fully absorbed into the Mossad and the CIA whose life will expire upon the termination of their usefulness to their masters.

These are independent forces that have a large popular base amongst the Lebanese and the Palestinian people and have demonstrated their resilience and massive popular base under the most horrific conditions that you and I can barely imagine and with or without Iran will continue to flourish and resist.

What a nerve!

Funny that in the article they have analyzed what the Khalifah-e-Moslemin Khameneii has said as an implication that he is demanding fundamental changes in US policies towards Iran yet his officials do not even want to show the least bit of flexibility on their part towards the U.S. when their some high ranking revolutionary guard person "Hamedani" declares that Iran will openly support all "Liberation Armies" (read Hamas, Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad, insrugents and jihadists in Iraq and elsewhere, etc.) in the region!

Stopping financial and logistical support for all those groups which the US categorizes as terrorist groups is going to be the United States' first demand from Iran on the negotiating table.

Mullahs and their lackeys think Americans and the rest of the world are like Iranian people over whom they rule and from whom they just take and take but do not give anything in return.

To SMHB

The book you mentioned is very good. I have read it and recommend it to anyone who wants to know what is behind all the dirty work done by the so called Super Powers.

To News Goffer

I have not seen the article you have posted anywhere!

Please provide a link.

divorcee

You are right. I would be very uncomfortable if my American friends visit this site with all the goodies Party Girl puts on.

Who does he speak for????

Is there any doubt about the criminality of the Ajax operation in 1953 that overthrew Dr. Mossadegh? Is there any doubt about what followed and about SAVAK's methods and the brutality of his majesty the little shah, the highest paid CIA agent in Iran?

Ofcourse if one was and continues to be a royalist the answer is a resounding NO. Everything was great and only, if only the shah had a few more years..........

But its obvious the great majority of Iranians do feel that way about US intervention in their internal affair. I as most people that I know do resent the historical fact that the US interfered in the internal domestic affairs of Iran to the detriment of Iran and Iranians, not to mention the rest of SW Asia as Iran was turned into a huge military and intelligence base of operation.

Does the SOF agreement with Iraq sound familiar? Thats what we had under his majesties wise rule. Ofcourse the original version the neo-crazies had tried to push on Iraq.

This resentment is very deep rooted in most developing nations who have suffered from colonial, neo-colonia and imperial domination and whose people value their independence and dignity.

Those who oppose american imperialism do make a distinction between imperial policies adopted and implemented by the elite and the american people and their absolute ignorance of what the empire does in their name. 

The unintended consequence of king georges escapades during the last 8 years has been the awakening of a large portion of the american public to the true nature of their foreign policy and the demise and collapse of the financial system has also demonstrated the utter corruption of the financial and banking elite and how they operate and how they plunder everyone, its an EEO plundering system.

American wife,

I do suggest a good read: The confessions of an economic hitman by John Perkins. Its a very easy read and yet very useful and imformative. He also has a sequel to his first book and you can look that up to. 

divorcee

LOL.... good idea.  My older sister is pretty opinionated.  I wouldn't let her in here for anything.  I don't even get along with her easily.  But I would love my twin to visit.  He's the intellectual one in the family.  But... also, my nephews are extremely interested in world events.  I'd like to introduce them as well.  They could take it all in stride.

Thanks for the suggestion!

A state of war only serves

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny. .... True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else. ~Clarence Darrow ...

Khameni will not end the animosity because he will have noone else to blame for his utter incompetence.

American Wife

Why don't you email them the blogs/news/articles that you find interesting and spare them from actually searching through the site!
I am afraid if they find out Iranians are constantly fighting each other, they would have even lower regards for us.

it's just unfortunate that the majority of Americans

don't see this site.  I'm not sure I'm going to suggest that everyone I know comes here... my interests are purely personal.  But the truth is that people believe what they hear in the media.  Whether it's here or in Iran.  The neocons are gonna read it and say "see, I told you so". 

I did suggest that my brother visit IC.  He's far more worldly than I am and might even have a different opinion on things.  I'd like to see him visit.... I think you'd like him!

they're panicking

Obama's election is going to put an end to their US hating slogans. 

See the article Sleepless in Tehran by Friedman

IRANdokht

Whom does he represent?

This head of the Mullahs only speaks for himslef and the rest of the Mullahs not for the people of Iran, who got tricked into this mess that these criminal Mullahs have created.