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  Nice Response

Nice Response Ostaad,you are making sense,thank you.Normal relations between Isreal and Palestine would be a dream.These are good ideas,I don't know if Isreal would go along like they showed on the fence.

Shah I don't speak for Isreal or the United States and I know you don't speak for Iran or the Palestinean's.Everyone knows the Palestinean's were massacured by built up tension's of ongoing suicide bombing's.Since you ask and put me on the wall to defend this massacre,go ahead and defend these suicide bombing's.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hamas_suicide_attacks

Passover suicide Bombing 30 killed 140 injured
//www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/3/Passover%20suicide%20bombing%20at%20Park%20Hotel%20in%20Netanya

Suicide Bombing Kills 3
//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-87057/Israel-suicide-bombing-kills-three.html

In 2 years- 70 Suicide bombing attacks
//www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/06/19/bombings-glance.htm

3 dead from Suicide Bombing
//www.voanews.com/english/archive/2002-05/a-2002-05-19-2-Israel.cfm?moddate=2002-05-19

1 killed 38 wounded
//www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1202064575658

Suicide Bombig 15 dead
//www.unwire.org/unwire/20020508/26239_story.asp

21 injured from suicide bombing
//www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/28/mideast.blast/index.html

15 killed at Pizzeria
//www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/10/Suicide%20bombing%20at%20the%20Sbarro%20pizzeria%20in%20Jerusale

First Suicide Bombing from reclaimed Gaza
//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/04/AR2008020400648.html

Bus Bomb kill 15
//www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/mar/06/israel

A History
//www.sott.net/signs/signs_suicide_bomb_supplement.htm

Another History

//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1197051.stm

5 Isreali's dead in Suicide Bombing
//www.vnis.com/story.cfm?textnewsid=1774

9 Dead in Tel Aviv from Suicide Bombing
//edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/18/israel.bombing/index.html

5 dead 55 injured
//www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1117

Suicide Bombing Honeymoon
//www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=74030

Suicide Bombing outside Mall kills 5
//www.jihadwatch.org/2005/12/israel-suicide-bombing-outside-mall-kills-5.html

Apr 6, 1994 - Eight people were killed in a car-bomb attack on a bus in the center of Afula. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Apr 13, 1994 - Five people were killed in a suicide bombing attack on a bus in the central bus station of Hadera. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 19, 1994 - In a suicide bombing attack on the No. 5 bus on Dizengoff Street in Tel-Aviv, 21 Israelis and one Dutch national were killed.

Nov 11, 1994 - Three soldiers were killed at the Netzarim junction in the Gaza Strip when a Palestinian riding a bicycle detonated explosives strapped to his body. Islamic Jihad said it carried out the attack to avenge the car bomb killing of Islamic Jihad leader Hani Abed on Nov 2.

Jan 22, 1995 - Two consecutive bombs exploded at the Beit Lid junction near Netanya, killing 18 soldiers and one civilian. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Apr 9, 1995 - Seven Israelis and one American were killed when a bus was hit by an explosives-laden van near Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Jul 24, 1995 - Six civilians were killed in a suicide bomb attack on a busin Ramat Gan.

Aug 21, 1995 - Three Israelis and one American were killed in a suicide bombing of a Jerusalem bus.

Feb 25, 1996 - In a suicide bombing of bus No. 18 near the Central Bus Station in Jerusalem, 26 were killed (17 civilians and 9 soldiers). HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 25, 1996 - One Israeli was killed in an explosion set off by a suicide bomber at a hitchhiking post oustide Ashkelon. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Mar 3, 1996 - In a suicide bombing of bus No. 18 on Jaffa Road in Jerusalem, 19 were killed (16 civilians and 3 soldiers).

Mar 4, 1996 - Outside Dizengoff Center in Tel-Aviv, a suicide bomber detonated a 20-kilogram nail bomb, killing 13 (12 civilians and one soldier).

Mar 21, 1997 - Three people were killed when a suicide bomber detonated a bomb on the terrace of a Tel Aviv cafe. 48 people were wounded.

Jul 30, 1997 - 16 people were killed and 178 wounded in two consecutive suicide bombings in the Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem.

Sep 4, 1997 - Five people were killed and 181 wounded in three suicide bombings on the Ben-Yehuda pedestrian mall in Jerusalem.

Oct 29, 1998 - One Israeli soldier was killed when a terrorist drove an explosives-laden car into an Israeli army jeep escorting a bus with 40 elementary school students from the settlement of Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip.

Nov 2, 2000 - Ayelet Shahar Levy, 28, and Hanan Levy, 33, were killed in a car bomb explosion near the Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Nov 20, 2000 - A roadside bomb exploded at 7:30 in the morning alongside a bus carrying children from Kfar Darom to school in Gush Katif. Miriam

Amitai, 35, and Gavriel Biton, 34, were killed and 9 others, including 5 children, were injured, 5 of them seriously.

Nov 22, 2000 - Shoshanna Reis, 21, of Hadera, and Meir Bahrame, 35, of Givat Olga, were killed, and 60 wounded when a powerful car bomb was denotated alongside a passing bus on Hadera's main street, when the area was packed with shoppers and people driving home from work.

Dec 22, 2000 - Three soldiers were injured in a suicide bomb attack at the Mehola Junction roadside cafe in the northern Jordan Valley. The terrorist,who detonated a belt of explosives strapped to him, was killed in the blast.

Jan 1, 2001 - A car bomb exploded near a bus stop in the shopping district in the center of Netanya. About 60 people were injured, most lightly. One unidentified person, apparently one of the terrorists involved in the bombing, died of severe burns. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 8, 2001 - A powerful car bomb exploded at 4:40 PM in the ultra-Orthodox neighborhood of Beit Yisrael in Jerusalem, causing mild injuries to four people.

Feb 14, 2001 - Eight people were killed and 25 injured when a bus driven by a Palestinian terrorist plowed into a group of soldiers and civilians waiting at a bus stop near Holon, south of Tel-Aviv.

Mar 1, 2001 - One person was killed and 9 injured when a terrorist detonated a bomb in a Tel Aviv to Tiberias service taxi at the Mei Ami junction in Wadi Ara.

Mar 4, 2001 - Three people were killed and at least 60 injured in a suicide bombing in downtown Netanya.

Mar 27, 2001 - A car bomb exploded at 7:40 in the morning in the Talpiot industrial/commercial zone in Jerusalem. Seven people were injured, one moderately. The Islamic Jihad has claimed responsibility for the attack.

Mar 27, 2001 - 28 people were injured, two seriously, in a suicide bombing directed against a northbound No. 6 bus at the French Hill junction in Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Mar 28, 2001 - Two teenagers were killed and four injured, one critically, in a suicide bombing at the Mifgash Hashalom ("peace stop") gas station several hundred meters from an IDF roadblock near the entrance to Kalkilya, east of Kfar Saba. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Apr 22, 2001 - A terrorist detonated a powerful bomb he was carrying near a group of people waiting at a bus stop on the corner of Weizman and Tchernichovsky streets. One person was killed and 39 injured in the blast, two severely. The terrorist was also killed in the explosion, for which Hamas claimed responsibility.

 A quote for Capt,another truce broken

•It's the first suicide attack in Israel in over a year, perhaps signaling the end of the truce in suicide

bombings Palestinians declared in late 2006.
•According to Israeli authorities, the bombers entered Israel through the Egyptian border with Israel, after slipping out of Gaza when Hamas forces demolished a portion of the separation wall between Gaza and Egypt last month"

Hah I mistook a article saying the Goldstone report was dropped as recent,when it was from 2006.I guess Goldstone is known as a bit lop-sided as they are here at Palestinean.com?

timothyfloyed

In the weeks leading to massacre in Gaza,  Israel was hard at work to get Hamas fire rockets so they can have a pretext for their blood shed. Take a look at this article in Guardian dated Wednesday 5 November 2008.

//www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israel...

A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen
in a raid into the territory.

Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.

End Excerpt.

Is this what you mean by self defense?

-YT 

timothyfloyed, it's simple...

Israel should:

• Dismantle ALL illegally colonies that it has built for the Jewish extremists and terrorist on the occupied territories - some by spending the US taxpayers money.
• Go back to its pre-67 borders (I don't thing pre-48 is realistic).
• Determine its international borders.
• Recognize the right of return for the Palestinian refugees IN PRINCIPLE.

The result should be a comprehensive peace and non-aggression treaty between Israel and the not-yet-established Palestine State.

What Israel should get in return is full recognition by the Arabs and Iran. Normalized relations should be left to individual states.

I'm sorry you've been taken by so-called "token in search of peace". There has never been real search for peace with the Palestinians among the Zionist invaders, because the Zionists have always maintained the Palestinians don't exist!

Regarding Iran's position vis-a-vis Israel, Iran is on record that it will drop opposition to Israel once there is just and enduring peace between Israel on Palestinian State. So by seeking real peace with the Palestinians, Israel will be able to continue as a normal state instead of the Apartheid outfit ruled by war criminals, right wing fanatics and imported Jewish terrorists.

I think it is

very important to highlight the number of casualties just in case some do not know.

In 33 days of Israeli invasion into Gaza, over 1400 Palestinians, including a third as children were massacared and bout 5000 were wounded, a good number with life long effects under massive Israeli air and ground bombardment with impunity.

It is indeed beyond any human understanding to defend Israel for self defence when the casualties that Hamas inflicted on Israel only includes three Israeli civilians and 10 Israeli soldiers killed. The latter is paramount to this discussion not only here but globally!

While overwhelming casualties on the israeli side reflects military nature (a little over 60%) the majority of killed on the Palestinian side include civilians (as reported, over 30% children). 

The casualty numbers speak for itself as who did what and why!

LOL ShahGhollam

I sure hope the fool follows your advice. We'd probably see him on TV trying to blame you.

Thanks for s good laugh to start of the day with. Have a good one.

Tmothy

I have to stand behind my comment's on the dictorial regime of Iran and condemn it's recent fascist behavior.My comment drives to the heart of it's people controlling fascism and the maligning of history to incite masses in hatred.

First things first, I don't know who you are trying to fool (there has been and are several like you here already). For the first time, speaking on behalf of most Iranians, your comments such as above are totally passed as "dubious" at best and totally disregarded for a simple reason, that is, how could someone vehemently promote massacring defenseless civilians, times and times again with impunity in the name of self defense and yet have compassion for Iranian demonstrators unless he/she hoping to gain some sympathy for anterior motives with such insincerity!

As for your lack of understanding of measured response, there is a simple test you can attempt in order to understand this in a practical way.

Try to instigate your wife/girlfriend to punch you once. Then immediately grab your baseball bat and smash it on her head. Then try to defend yourself in front of a jury claiming "self defense". Try it, and I promise you will understand this concept like no other!!!!

Possible Reasons in your Decision

Possible Reasons in your decision

1.Personal
2.Information Accessability
3.History of the conflict
4.Discrimination
5.Social Peer Pressure
6.Religous Preference

From Observing your posts Shah,Number 4 is most prevalent.

Our difference is,You and many accept the violence of Hamas and suicide bomber's as a "last resort".I do not accept it..I've expressed my opinion,to dismay,against violence against Isreal and my approval of retalliation against attack's upon Isreal.I don't see how that is unfair.It may be unfair to overattack in retalliation but I am unsure where that line is or who should hold the authority to draw it.That is why I have asked the question here,what do you feel is a appropiate "measured response"?

I have to stand behind my comment's on the dictorial regime of Iran and condemn it's recent fascist behavior.My comment drives to the heart of it's people controlling fascism and the maligning of history to incite masses in hatred.

Ostaad since I'm unfair let me try to ask you something fairly.If you are unable to see giving up Gaza as a token in search of peace,and instead see it as a 'trick' then what could Isreal do for you that is not a trick?

Guys

It did not take very long before Timothy showed his real colors. Read some of his past comments:

No Nukes.Screw him.How can you deny something so provable? He is a ridiculous menace of Jewish hatred.The Holocaust doesn't fit the I.R.I.'S Anti-Isreal brainwash propaganda.So what do you do? Call it a lie!!

I'm not a Jew but would it matter? You can think of me as a Jew if you want,I really don't care.I just call it as I see it like everyone.Personally I'm a Christian interested in Law,Literature and History among other things.I enjoy discussing many different things.

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/09/18/iran-leader-calls-6-million-dead-myth

I love this proverb "What walks like a Duck, swims like a Duck and quacks like a duck is a Duck"

Boldly expose Zionists, help humanity!

Timothy

You like much of the rest of neucons and Zionists define peace as "subjugation" a "surrender" if you like. I guess it is the same peace offered to the Jews of holocaust.......an eternal peace. I am sure Israelis understand that just too well, no?

timothyfloyd, Isreal is not in the kindness business...

This may help clear up your blinders:

Why has Mr Sharon proposed the plan?

The official reason for the disengagement plan -
proposed when Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was still alive - is
that there is a stalemate and Israel should break it.

Mr Sharon and his supporters say getting out of Gaza
will make Israel safer and may eventually revive the international
peace plan, known as the roadmap, which proposes a two-state solution.

But some of Mr Sharon's closest associates have said
that leaving Gaza is the price for Israel holding onto the large
settlement blocks in the West Bank.

A key adviser to the prime minister, Dov Weisglass, said
the significance of the plan is that it would freeze the political
process and that once it was frozen, there could be no discussion about
the establishment of a Palestinian state or negotiations about
Palestinian refugees, borders or the status of Jerusalem.

Mr Sharon's office was quick to distance himself from
the comments. But many Israelis and Palestinians believe they ring true
and are more credible than the official reason.

Mr Sharon may also be trying to realign Israeli politics
by moving the right-wing Likud party, which has traditionally claimed
Gaza and the West Bank as part of the land of Israel, closer to the
centre.

Source: //news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3774765.stm

Regarding the rockets and all, I can see your point, but you don't have to be so friggin biased and one-sided by using term like "kindly" to describe a self-serving and cynical political ploy by Israel and hold all the blame for the Palestinians. Why is fairness such an alien concept for you, I wonder?

Bafava I would walk out of there the 1st day

Even if it took months.I'm serious too! I said Isreal so 'kindly' gave up that land simply because they did not have to.I do recall quite clearly,They did it because people scoffed they would not.It was supposed to bring 'peace' from the Palestineans.I knew it was mularkey at the time and now am proven right ensuring my opinion of Palestinean's.They are not capable of Peace,all they know is war and it is all they are bred for.As for occupation,In checking the history Jew's have been in Jew-rusalem a very,very long time.
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Judah

I subscribe to 'measured

I subscribe to 'measured response' philosophy in the same way I subscribe to 'first strike',I don't..But I understand that when you are a attacker,you create a defender.What you see as a overmeasured response I see as a lesson,an attempt to prevent future attack's on Isreal.Those trying to 'regulate the response' are invalidating the lesson to be learned and paving the way for more War.As the U.N. always does,exactly the opposite of it origin's.If you really have mercy and compassion for Palestineans you would wish they soon begin to understand Peace.

Timothy:

I can't help but just laugh when I hear funny things such as "after Israel so kindly gave up that land to the Palestinian's"… You make it sound as if they gave some part of their own land as a charity. This was the land that was occupied for nearly sixty years, and still a big portion of their land (West bank and east Jerusalem) is occupied. And then what did they do after they left Gaza… surround it and made a Ghetto out of that land and it inhabitants by controlling every aspect of their lives, just as they are doing it now. Nothing can go in or out without the Israeli control and permission. You try living like that for a day or two.

Mehrdad

Timothy

Thank you Capt although there's not much exposed here besides an admission of Hamas' guilt of War crimes and the lack of media on it.From what is supposedly a'Jew media'.It's all in the Eye of the Beholder.

You know, the more I here you the more I am convinced you are biased towards Israel as far as your full weight of judgement is concerned.

It appears that you have not heard or subscribe to "measured response" and what is called International warefare conventions as far as the civilians in a conflict are concerned. Once you familiaraize yourself with these you would then understand the UN report. But how can that be likely for one who is inherently biased in his judgement? until that is paid attention to, no number of massive Palestinian civilian deaths by the Israelis would mean alarming or even ridiculous as you put it. As a reminder, this is not the first time Israel has been on civilian killing rampage in its sixty years of history. The other one was in Lebanon in 2006. Then, the massive killing of Lebanese civilians were justified because Hezbollah kidnapped israeli soldiers. And before that was the 20 years occupation of Lebanon, in which the main targets were again civilians en mass.

Israel will continue its civilian killing practice simply because of it massive military power paid and supplied by the US taxpayer. The way we are going, the military technology gap between the haves and have nots is closing very fast even for pity militia Vs. a mighty military power. I will love to hear about your warrped judments then!

Oh No,I didn't miss it

Oh No,I got all the parts,including the infrastructure destruction.I just pointed out the one You selectively have been ignoring.And thats the reason I said the report is nothing,because Hamas is a guilty so called victim.Do you support the suprise bombing of Isreal from Gaza after Isreal so kindly gave up that land to the Palestinean's?And did you expect no consequences from it? If you did expect conseqences from attacking Isreal,humor me some more please,what would those be?

timothyfloyed

I suppose we only hear what we want to hear! Judge investigated both sides, but  I guess you missed[selectively] hearing the main part.

Truth is in the ears of the beholder in this case . 

-YT 

Jewish media at work

Thank you Capt although there's not much exposed here besides an admission of Hamas' guilt of War crimes and the lack of media on it.From what is supposedly a'Jew media'.It's all in the Eye of the Beholder.

Israel exposed by Judge

Israel exposed by Judge Richard Goldstone on Fareed Zakaria show.

-YT 

The Report is Nothing

What do you expect when you send rocket's into a country? I guess if you are ignorant you expect nothing in return.A council of Anti-Semite's will only prove what they are and I doubt if anything else arise's from it.But I want to know why you expected Isreal to just sit and be attacked? I'm sure if they knew the 'proper' retalliation at the time they would have done it.What were they supposed to do? Count the dead and then make sure they returned their killing's in only same amount? Ridiculous Palestinean's.

People treated like cattle in the 21st century

absolutely shameful and bloody stain on Israel and all its supporters.

And far more

shameful are the very jews who even today put the guilt on the world when it stood silent in WWII but now they stand silent as observers in crimes against humanity committed by the very children of holocaust live on TV! Shame, shame, shame.....!

A shameful act by the

A shameful act by the world if these people are not brought to justice just the same as the Nazis were brought to justice for their crimes against humanity.

Mehrdad