Anyway

Another Ode to Khomeini

This is the real ode to Khomeini!

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuCMpLCej54

Q resorting to fallacy and name calling. Again...

... Which is expected from you whenever you are hopelessly cornered.

I will not respond to your name callings, as I am above that. You say Saddam should/could have ended his war of aggression. He just did that, or at least attempted to, by offering peace AND war reparations to Iran in 1982. By then, it was clear to both Saddam and many in khomeini's circle that the war will only enrich the major western and other minor arm dealers, and that neither the west nor the soviets would ever allow either Iran or Iraq to win the war.

But khomeini and the hardliners being overconfident with their recent improbable victory against the shah, pressed on with the war. Have you forgotten khomeini's "messages" to the youth after 1982? He encouraged the Iranian youth to feed themselves to the war, just as Zahaak did for the serpents on his shoulders.

Your fallacy with your analogy of the Iran-Arab wars of 1400 years ago shall be exposed as well. The Arab invaders never offered peace and reparation to Iran. The Iran-Arab war of 1400 years ago was not a war where a foreign power could keep either side from winning. In that war, the Iranians were not trying to export a "revolution" into Arabia. Furthermore, it was not a war about oil rich khuzestan, it was a war to import arabs and their religion into Iran. You cannot compare these two wars.

Do not defend khomeini. He was a traitor to Iran and to humanity as well.

jamshid exposing his own ignorance again

I was wrong, it's not that you can't read. You must be so blinded with hatred -- well you ARE, you have said as much before -- that you are just psychologically blocked from seeing what you don't want to see. It's an important difference. In the latter, you are just ignorant, but in the former, you are ignorant and insane.

Johnson could have ended the war of aggression, so could Saddam Hussein. That's the correct anaology, stupid, not Khomeini.

Hm... you don't care if a war is a war of aggression, huh? I guess you would say that any Iranians who resisted Arab invaders are themselves to blame for any losses that that they suffered because "they could have stopped the war."

What a complete moron, you are.

Re: Q

Who said I am debating with you? I am only exposing you. Don't you know the difference?

What accusations did I make against you? Did you or did you not defend khomeini?

My numbers are not false. My eyes have never lied to me. The IRI never reported the correct number of deaths and injured. I know that with certainty at least for the first year of the war. There is no reason why IRI would suddenly change its policy of playing down the numbers in the news starting from the second year of the war .

Furthermore, I care less if a war is a war of aggression or not. As long as human lives can be saved, they should be saved. Khomeini could have ended the war in 1982, as much as Johnson could have done the same in Vietnam decades ago.

P.S. Again, just for the record, I am not debating with you, I am only exposing you.

kir many khomeni , bot shekanei khomeini

..رفسنجانی کس کش هم چند هفته قبل برای اینکه دهن کانادائی ها رو ببنده یک معامله ٣ میلیاردی به سود کا نادا امضائ کرد و یک زمین بزرگ رو تو منطقه اکانا گا نزدیک شهر کملوپس خرید تا شهر خصوصی اخوندهای فراری رو بسازه..یک شهرک مخصوص پاسدارها در شمال تورونتو دارند که من اونجا کارگری می کردم ٥٠ درصد خانهای انجا مال پاسدارها مسئو لان مملکتی زمان رفسنجانی و ما بقی است..

Keer to Koon Khomeini and Q!?

Fvck Khomeini and Q!?

SHAME ON YOU BOT SAAZAN.....

I don’t know about you all but I'm sick and tired of all of these phony BOTS that we create. Be it SHAHS, RAJAVIS, AYATOLAHS. What is #@$%& wrong with you people can you think and act independently without these BOTS as your saviors???? I think this a disease and it has historical roots in our culture, religion and our personalities. Can you understand that these BOTS are never the answer but the problem themselves!!!!! If Iran and Iranians are only capable of producing these people as “leaders”, “saviors” than the disease is with in us and we will doomed by history as we have been for centuries. Our future is not through the past. DEVELOPE, BRING SOMETHING NEW!!! START WITH YOURSELVES

Jamshid: I thought you were going to stop debating me

didn't you say you "agreed" that we had no common foundation for debate? Was this another lie?

Sadly, it seems it was. You're back again making up retarded arguments and accusations.

Your numbers ARE false. But your logic is even worst, and your reading skills have not improved one bit. Johnson and Nixon killed MILLIONS of VIETNAMESE people in a WAR OF AGGRESSION.

Now, you can debate yourself. Goodbye!

Don't be deceived.

AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI brought us the glorious ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of IRAN and ended 2500 years of corrupt regimes of PERSIS KAISER SHAHS. ISLAMIC REPUBLIC of IRAN is today the strongest, most glorious, and progressive in 2500 years. HE ended all the executions, tortures, and poverty the shah perpetrated upon MOSLIM iranians, exactly as he promised.

People, don't be deceived by propaganda. AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI did not harm even a fly, let alone any iranian. Not only that, but there are well documented accounts of AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI reviving those that were killed by the SHAH. They are all alive and living well in iran now. There are also well documented accounts of AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI healing anyone who visits his grave not matter what his disease is, from sexual impotence to cancer. Of course according to the glorious sharia law, if a woman with a disease visits AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI's grave, the glorious AYATOLLAH heals only 1/2 of her disease as she is worth only half of a man according to the glorious laws of the glorious ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN.

I, like all leaders of ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN, was nobody and nothing. I had a donkey when AYATOLLAH KHAMENEI had an old Citroen before revolution. He turned me into an M.D. with no trouble at all and now I can easily practice OBGYN using his magical power of healing that he gave me. He also replaced AYATOLLAH KHAMENEI's Citroen with a classy Mercedes Benz and made him our glorious leader. He has been equally generous with ALL iranians.

Greetings.

Setiz

Ok, I agree, Hitler and Stalin do not apply to the comparison. But the list of people worst than Khomeini is still very big starting with Holaku Khan, Taimur Lang, Saddam Hussein, Russian Czars, Ottoman Empire, Arabs, and all the way down to at least 30 or 40 Iranian Kings. Even more if we consider population proportions.

I agree all the deaths were a tragedy and the executions of Mojaheds and Fadian should be considered a massacre.

Well, if you don't give fohsh, than you are in the minority. But I have no problem accepting only objectively published numbers. If that's what you cite, we should have no problems.

To me, there is no conceivable way the executions under the Islamic Republic -in total- could be even close to 1 Million Iranians. Absolutely no way. It'll have to be proven so for me to believe it.

On ahmadinejad what you say may be true as well. I was in Iran during the 2005 elections. There was not a doubt in my mind that Ahmadinejad's conscious use of Khomeini's words, speeches, rhetoric made a significant contribution to his popular appeal. Everybody else (including reformists) was under the impression that modern election tactics, such as sex appeal, and flashy advertisement was going to get them support. Ahmadinejad was the only one who was portraying simplicity, humility. You say it was his economic rhetoric that was instrumental. But don't forget how much Khomeini emphasized economics as well! You say he "lied", well I'm sure it's true, but not any more than any other politician in any other election including those in the US. It's the nature of elections to have to please everyone which by definition means lying. Disappointment usually ensues. He talked about Khomeini a lot in his speeches during the election and he continued after. One such speech was the 'wipe off the map' remark that got so much attention, but if you listen to the whole context, he was more interested in saying that he's is walking the path of Khomeini than saying he wants to bomb Israel.

As far as rural homes. I can't speak for your experience. But I have been to many of them, and have seen first hand Khomeini pictures on the walls in homes and businesses. In one home in Kerman, I even saw a Khomeini portrait with a little picture of the Shah waving stuck in the bottom corner! Khomeini put enormous amount of resources into rual electrification and water delivery, as well as paying farmers for their crop. That has not been fogotten.

But what is undesputable is the enormous turnout for his funeral and the continuously sizable crowds of visitors at his shrine every single day of the year, with usualy more women than men.

My point in bringing up willfull blindless is related to this issue. Not many people outside of Iran want to believe that Khomeini's memory wields so much influence inside the country. Many Iranians simply project their own experience and values into the whole of the Iranian nation. They think that EVERYONE has concluded that Khomeini was this horrible monster, everyone hates Islam and they are ready to rise up, and most-rediculous-yet, are looking for exiled Iranian-Americans for leadership.

It's pure fantasy, and coincidentally is the reason no oppositon has been able to mobilize anyone inside of Iran.

Re: Q

Q, so you are a praising and defending khomeini? That speaks volumes.

You talk about khomeini being popular as though that gives him legitimacy. Hitler was "enormously" popular too, and had he won the war, today he would be even more "popular". Therefore, being popular is not the key in determining legitimacy.

Besides, if Iran ever becomes free from the IRI, I'll show you how really "popular" khomeini is.

How can you compare Nixon and Johnson with Khomeini? The number of deaths you are attributing to Nixon or Johnson had to do with wars. If you include wars, then the Khomeini-imposed war with Iraq, after 1982, caused a million death and even more with permanent disablities. Together, more than 3 percent of Iran's entire population at the time (2 out of 55 millions) were either killed or maimed or otherwise permanently injured. I am not even counting the war-homeless, the orphans, the still grieving mothers, and more. That's more than THREE percent of Iran's population.

And don't tell me these numbers are false. The real numbers are probably even worst. Did you ever serve in the war to see, with your own eyes, how your fellow countrymen were dropping dead like flies, wave after wave? And they died, many without any choice, to appease khomeini's lust for his banckrupt ideology.

And besides, how many of its citizens did khomeini's regime executed for political or religious reasons? How many did Nixon or Johson? Your pathetic attempts to save face for khomeini using your usual deceptive tactics only serve to further degrade your already badly degraded reputation.

Khomeini was a backwarded, ignorant, ruthless man with an equally bankrupt ideology, and with no respect for human life. Knowing you, I do find such man as khomeini who crawled out of the sewers of "hoozeye elmieh" with his slime ideology to be fit to be your leader. You don't deserve any better.

Islamic Terrorism around the world began with Khomeini!

Go figure!

Stalin and Mao vs. Khomeini

Stalin and Mao killing millions each, it is true! But, how many people did in fact live in the Sovjet Union and China respectively at that time? When Khomeini arrived, Irans population was roughly 40 million! No, he did not kill as many people as Stalin and Mao! In fact Stalin and Mao were in the business of nation building while the man whos picture on the moon inheritet one of the richest countries in the world in 1979! What did he do with it? It depends on how you look at it, and what kind of formula you apply! Yes, Khomeini was worst then the above dictators! And to the guy who thinks he only murdered 4000 or 5000 Mujaheds! What kind of an animal are you!? "ta hala kesi az nazdikanet o edam kardan whatever their beliefs? Ta hala bache hamsaye ro beedaleel gereftan bordan edam kardan! Do you comperehend what you utter!? Ahmagh!!!

To: Q

(1) Please read my comment again, i said "for iranians". Hitler did not kill any iranian that we know of. If you want to compare them against how many non-iranians Hitler killed, then you are correct. I was simply talking about the harm that any of them brought on iranians exclusively.

(2) khomeini killed close to 5000 people in a single year (in 1988 according to AM report). Official numbers reflected in IRI newspapers only is around 9000 (boroumands once collected newspaper clips and the count). Yes, many of them were mojahed or fadaee, but the killings were so indiscriminate and rushed that lots of them essentially had done nothing but, e.g., yelling anti-khomeini slogans in demonstrations (reference nemat's autobiography), let alone any due process.

(3) I do not give bad "fohsh" (to anyone) but I argue about your numbers. I accept them when they you are correct and reject them when biased, as you see here. Would you do the same?

(4) I don't have the exact number or any reference as to how many showed up for his funeral, but based on what I have read, it was closer to 1 million than 10 millions. Still, for me, that is awfully sad that so many people did not see the evil in him.

(5) I dispute your position that ahmadinejad won elections because he invoked khomeini's name. He won elections becuase he hid his true nature and lied about his position (his pre-election propagandas are on youtube -- no mention of oppression or freedom for Qods, only economy). One person who voted for him told me that his one-page description in election booklet was better then others (with a lot of sympathy for the poor) and that is why she voted for him. I asked that person if she would still vote for him had she known that he was in charge of implementing execution orders in azarbaijan, kurdestan, and tehran (prisoner claims are on youtube), and she said no!

(6) I simply do not know if any rural home has or has not a picture of khomeini, but I was told that there are still people who walk bare-foot across town to his mausoleum. Again, for me, it is so telling that how far we still have to go before we deserve any better government than either of IRI or shah's.

(7) I agree with your last point BUT should apply on both sides of an argument.

Thanks for reading my comment.

what do you mean by "better" ?

Yes, call me crazy. I have a standard that judges people by their actions. It's the only objective way. Otherwise, why couldn't YOU be more evil than Khomeini?

It's true Nazism was also popular at one time. But incmparable to Khomeinism today. The percentage of people who like Hitler in the US is much much smaller than the percentage of Iranians who like Khomeini today.

Q..........

Am I reading this correctly? Are you considering Moussavi Hendi to be better than the others because of the number of dead?

Are you serious? I wasn't aware of an actual qualifier required to be considered an evil, mass murdering degenerate. Mea culpa.

In Montana and Idaho, among other places, in homes scattered throughout rural enclaves inhabited by so-called neo-Nazis, rare is the domicile that does not have a picture of Adolf Hitler. He was and is still immensely popular among these self-proclaimed white supremacist groups.

Setiz: you are dreaming!

There's a simple way to settle this. How many people has Khomeini killed?

You are seriously saying Khomeini was worst than Hitler, Stalin and Mao, each of whom killed 15-30 MILLION people.

Khomeini doesn't even rank above US Presidents McKinly, Johnson and Nixon for the number of killings attributed to him.

Arguably the worst massacre of his reign was the mass execution of Mojaheds which contrary to wild exaggerations, could not possibly have been above 4000-5000 in number.

I know in the typical "Persian" expat tradition, there will be much "fohshe khahar madar" directed toward me for saying this simple truth. But do not ignore irrefutable facts of history: Khomeini was and is enormously popular in Iran. 10 Million Iranians showed up at his funeral. Ahmadinejad won popular support after invoking his name and tradition, as opposed to Rafsanjani. Rare is the mud-house in rural Iran that does not have a picture of Khomeini posted.

Politics aside, willfully blinding ourselves to reality isn't going to solve anything.

Kadivar: IRI

does not fit your definition of Theocracy.

We Iranians should start seeing ourselves in terms other than those defined by the Western intellectuals for their own purposes.

Wrong!

It is wrong to compare khomeini with hitler, stalin, or pal pot. As bad as they were, they did nothing to iranians (maybe stalin did, indirectly).

Khomeini is in the same league as Eskandar, Omar, Changiz, and Teymour. Still those aggressors of iran were mostly honest (with the exception of Omar) about their intentions and objectives. Khomeini did not have a single straight intestine in his whole body (yek roudeh raast nadaasht). He was a master deceiver and lier unparalleled. He was completely devoid of any smallest bit of empathy, humanity, integrity, or honesty. We simply did not have anyone like him in the history of iran. The closest rival to his deceitful damages to iran has been done by Omar, and we all know how it has turned out.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXBf1RQvqhc

Compared to the present

Compared to the present rulers of Iran living in places, spending millions of dollars for their own security, the late Imam went back to a village, lived a simple life in a room and used to receive his public audience in a small mosque.

He lived like one of the "kooch-neshinhaa" he used to refer in his speeches and his successors became "Kaach-neshinhaa" Look where they live now ..

A.......

What is irrational or emotional about cold, hard facts?

These "cliches", as you call them are not cliches at all. True leadership is not based upon instilling fear among those you are charged or have chosen to lead. True leadership exists when the lives of the followers are enhanced, not micromanaged to the nth degree.

If Moussavi Hendi was in fact courageous, as you claim, then why didn't he stand up to Mohammad Reza Shah and stay put rather than live in exile? Perhaps your definition of courage extends to having a group of flunkie students who couldn't get visas to go to university in the States do his bidding and hold people hostage.

A true leader must always be able and willing compromise in order to serve the needs of his followers and supporters, something Moussavi Hendi obviously did not.

Your assessment that he had exceptional knowledge in Islamic philosophy, literature and politics, is both meaningless and inaccurate. Philosophy itself is far too broad, and far too varied, and by definition subject to interpretation and debate. Literature? Books of his poetry published after his death qualify as poetry as much as pork qualifies as Halal or Kosher. And if you consider Iran's current state as indicative of Moussavi Hendi's political expertise, well then bless you. At least we can see eye to eye on that.

Simple Clergy

I think he was just a simple clergy who truly believed that he could improve things. I think he even violated some of his own principles along the way at times in the hope that end justified the means. Of course anybody in charge is always blamed for every thing that happens anywhere. People in their anxiety to dump responsibility are more than ready to blame someone else - as long at it is not their responsibility. I think his role has been very badly exagerated. I think the so-called revolution was staged by the imperialists. They simply took out Shah by installing traitors in his system sabotaging and feeding him falshood until it was too late for him to do anything, knowing full well that after Shah was gone, if the decision was given to the "masses," they would elect an Islamic fundamentalist system. This was decided to be the best system at the time for Iran in order to protect the free flow of cheap oil and guarantee that the country would not become so modernized that it would then ask for more money for its oil. Some of this is covered in the book 100 Years of War and also Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran, and the United States byTrita Parsi. I suggest you read these and realize that mullahs in general are nobodies. They are just pawns - simple minded people who think they have been given power by God himself. Of course in any group there are those who actually know what they are doing. But I doubt that Khomeini knew much about what was happening. He may have realized something later and that may have caused him to give up life and hope - and die.

A, Ali, Asshole, every person with....

A, Ali, Abdollah, Akbar, Asshole, every person with an iota of brain knows that Khomeini was a backward 7th century religious idiot.

This is words of GOD so shut up and do not raise questions. If you doubt, you burn in hell.

To Anonymous!

Have you read his philosophical work about Molasadra and Ibn Arabi? Which Prof.Nasr calls as one of the greatest landmarks of Islamic philosophy?!! Have you read his poems? I bet not. All you've read from him is the few pages of "taharat" in his "resaleh" which has been repeated time after time by the dishonest opposition.

Do a research for yourself

Re: Khomeini

"literature? Are you joking? Have you read his books? He was a lunatic who was used by the west to take Iran back 1400 years to the barbaric times! Th toilet example is one of his high points in litrature!

Massive change

He did not change only Iran, the whole freaking planet is changed because of him. He re-wrote every equation known to mankind. Changed the general attitude of everyone in everywhere.

If you want to be all

If you want to be all emotional and irrational go ahead; compare Khomeini to Hitler and Stalin, call him a mass murderer, an Indian foreigner, an uneducated man who only knew "which foot to put first when entering the bathroom", an lunatic who destroyed 2500 years of Iranian GLORIOUS monarchy....and all existing cliches about him etc

But if you want to evaluate him in a more rational way, he was a man with exceptional qualities of leadership who, in the middle of the chaos of revolution, managed to gather everyone and anyone, from all kinds of ideologies, around himself. He was a very courageous activist who did not compromise with anyone. A man who had exceptional knowledge about Islamic philosophy, literature and politics. Now his role in the executions has yet to be determined by history.

People got fooled

Khar shoodim digeh, vali alaan baayad dorostesh konim, khodemun dorostesh konim na bee-gaaneh.

KHOMEINI

Re: Khomeini

You are absolutely right, he was an exceptional leader. Who else has ever told you to "put your left foot in before your right foot when you want to use the toilet"?
I hope he burns in hell, along with his foreign masters and followers!