Misc

To unfair (not verified)

Most of what you say happenned in ground warfare, not against air and sea forces. Asymmetric warfare may work on the ground in an insurgency. It DOES NOT work in the air and at sea. If you disagree, show me just one example in history where there was an air or sea "insurgency".

Hezbollah fought the Israeli army- ON THE GROUND. It did not prevent the IAF from bombing wherever it wanted at will. And it got just one hit on an Israeli missile boat the INS Hanit, and it was around 60 km from the Lebanese coast, and its missile defenses were turned off and therefore caught entirely by surprise. Even with all that, the attack caused a fire and just a few casualties.

The Hanit was puny and much closer to the enemy coast compared to the US 5th fleet vessels in the Persian Gulf now, and you can be sure that the USN ships will not be taken by surprise. Furthermore, even if one Iranian missile gets through and does the same thing, it will not change the outcome of the war, it will rather cause a massive retaliation of the United States on targets all over Tehran and the rest of Iran. Unlike Hezbollah, the Iranian revolutionary guard + regular armed forces+government have clear headquarters and installations that will be completely destroyed in such a case.

Furthermore, the S300's are meaningless if they are not integrated into a layered air defense system, and they are sitting ducks for Tomahawk and other cruise missiles. You can bet that the Tomahawks have already been programmed with the S300 locations and Natanz and every runway in Iran already for the last 3 years. They will be the first things to go in the first 30 minutes.

I remain hopeful however, that a conflict will not break out, but not because of military deterrence, but rather economic and political deterrence. The world economic and political situation so far has precluded the military option for Iran. I hope that continues to be the case. But anyone who claims that Iran's military is so strong that the Americans or Isrealis will not be able to attack is fooling themselves, and I will do all in my power to make sure they don't fool others as well. The facts are the facts. Yes, as an Iranian I would love it if we went to the moon and built stealth fighters, etc. But I don't believe in living lies. Iran does not stand a chance militarily, and there is no shame in that, because a country like Iran cannot be expected to stand a chance militarily against the US.

FAIR

Can you read?

I said in my post that it is Baghdad. That is one of the 2 "AWACS" that you claimed Iran has. So much for your credibility.

It is not a wrong picture just because you don't like it and it debunks your empty claim. Before you ask anyone to do research, do your homework first, or at least learn how to read.

FAIR

Re: Have you seen the "AWACS" you are talking about?

that was picture of Baghdad-1.... here picture of Adnan-1 AEW :

//cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photo...

next time do more research before post a wrong picture....

most important things which will decide the outcome of war

-economical situation of usa
-7years of war at two fronts with no end in sight
-lack of confidence in leadership and system by americans
-being defeated and humiliated by an army much much inferior to iran
-iran has no central command or head of snake like iraq and saddam,so the armies will go on and fight independently and usa can not paralyse us like it did with saddam
-if hezbollah can neutrilize the israelli airforce!!!iran can certainly defy the american!!thus taking away their only and strongest weapon

Have you seen the "AWACS" you are talking about?

First of all, thank you for confirming that the only AEW (not AWACS) aircraft Iran EVER received were the 2 that ran away from Iraq 17 years ago- the Adnan and the Baghdad. Have you seen a picture of the Baghdad? Look at following picture, taken a few months ago, which is also posted in the same forum you like to read:

//www.iranairaviation.com/AviationDetails.asp...

This is one of the planes that you claim Iran owns and Russia trained its crews. But far from operating as an "AEWACS" ,
This plane is rotting on the ground.

Furthermore, Adnan and Baghdad are not NATO code names, they are names given by the Iraqis themselves. The IL-76 is a cargo plane and its NATO designation is Candid, and the tanker version is Midas. The Adnan and Bachdad were not built in Russia, the IL-76's were built in Russia, and they were modified to become Adnan in Baghdad in Iraq with French help. So if anybody needs to train the Iranian crews to use it as an AWACS, it would be the French and the Iraqis. So once again, get your facts straight.

Now, regarding the Adnan, it is used as a cargo plane, and its radar is not operational, Even if it were, an AWACS needs to be able to control and direct Iran's fighters, which are by now a mix of American, Russian, and Chinese aircraft, the ages of which range from 25-40 years old. And the Adnan's radar and avionics (when it was working) were French. So a plane with a dome on top still that does not make it an AWACS. And finally, a fully operational AWACS is useless if it is not completely safe from enemy fighters. Are Iran's 25-40 year old fighters going to protect this so called "AWACS" from any coalition threat?

Claims and propaganda are one thing. Facts are another. I reserve the right to ask for the correct facts when you make a bold claim.

-FAIR

unfair jan listen

I like your comments because you are very objective and know what you are talking about,but you are forgetting a couple of things i like to point out:

-hezbollah is a militia equipped and trained by iran they dont have our best weapons nor our best soldiers but they managed to hit and damage israelli ships which has better and more expensive quality than its american counterparts concluision:if they manage to hit israelli ships iran will certainly manage to hit many many usa ships.

-merkava4 tank is the best protective and capable tank in the world and is designed to protect the crew at any cost,its also more expensive than abram.
yet hezbollah managed to destroy more than hundred of them with anti tank missiles provided by iran(do the math with usa abram in case of war)hezbollah shut down apache and blackhawk with iranian anti aircraft missiles(you do the math in case of war with usa)

we dont have good tanks but we have thousands of the best anti-tank missiles in the world.we dont spend money to planes and choppers which have no chance against american airforce anyway but we have the s-300!!!!and the means to shoot them down.
sterategically iran is in position to inflict extremely painful damages to american interests
thanks for your time

Bring it on Israel

what are you waiting for?

Sahrifi1339

I don't know......see, I'm kind of an airplane nerd...IL-76 is a heavy transport aircraft.  While I presume (but am not certain) that it may be fitted for recognizance missions, it largely has a transport role in various air forces around the world, and also in civilian airline cargo operations.  In fact, if I am not mistaken, I have actually seen photos of one of the ones that Iran uses and it was an ordinary transport plane.  Here's the Wikipedia piece on IL-76:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-76

And here's the Wikipedia page on Iran's Air Force:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Force

And here's what that page says about Iran's two IL-76's:

"In 1991 Gulf War two IL-76AEW fled from Iraq to Iran where the remain in service at Shiraz and Mehrabad Intl.[9] Currently, only one remains operational for transport purposes, as the AWACS systems onboard are no longer operational.[10]"

Re: Stop misinforming people

Iran has 2 IL-76 NATO code name Adnan-1 and Baghdad-1 flew to Iran during 2nd Persian Gulf War and since then it’s under Iranian Air Force Logistics Command 99-02.. if you don’t know what kind of airplane is that… it is an Airborne Early Warning And Control System or AEWACS for short…. It is made in Russia and Iran own 2 of them and Russian trained all the crew for that… for more info go to //www.s188567700.online.de/forum/viewtopic.ph...

It is not size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog

It is simple. Strong Iran is good for Iranians. I don't understand why some Irnians like to put down Iran. It dosn't happen overnight, but we have smart people and we will get there. I think Israel and US know Iran's power better than us. That is why US attacked Iraq and not Iran. They know Iranians will not back down.

Pretty Impressive

I don't know what you guys are talking about.  I have seen photos of one of their indigenously designed and built battleships and it looks pretty impressive.  Here its is:

 //aboutfacts.net/People/People34/OldIronsides.jpg

... And I feel sorry for my

... And I feel sorry for my brave innocent Iranian brothers like the ones in this video who will be once again forced to fight an impossible war and face certain death because of our leadership's incompetence and total lack of regard for Iran.

Does anyone remember 2006?

The same guys you see in the clip are the same guys whotrain and equip Hezbollah!

Stop misinforming people

Nima-

Iran NEVER had AWACS capability. AWACS is more than a fighter plane scanning the skies, if that were the case then over 100 countries have AWACS capability.

Iran had ORDERED 7 E3A AWACS before the revolution, since Iran is a large mountainous country which is difficult to cover entirely be ground radar (still has many holes in coverage today). The new Islamic government under Khomeini and Bazargan canceled the order despite it being too late by contract to get all the money back. The US then promptly resold 5 of those AWACS to Saudi Arabia, who used it to help Iraq against Iran (and will be used again against Iran if God forbid another conflict breaks out)

Since you are quick to call people's comments "BS", perhaps you can provide a reliable source for your claim of the above not being true?

And regarding the US Navy in the Persian Gulf, of course their commanders consider their disadvantages, because they are good planners. That doesn't mean they will not prevail. A bad planner is one who only focusses on their advantages, like what you are doing. The coast to sea missiles you are talking about have a maximum range of 120 km, and the Persian Gulf can be as wide as 340 km. Furthermore, the warheads of the longest range missile is are 165 kg, which is a joke if you are attacking the US 5th fleet. They are subsonic, which means once detected they can be easily defeated. And you are assuming that none of the US ships have incoming missile detection, countermeasures, and that the US military cannot detect a launch that just happenned from the Iranian coast, which are all false. They will have plenty of reaction time because the flight time for such a missile is on the order of 10-20 minutes to its target. You further assume that Iran will be able to resupply itself easier because it is firing from land, but you completely neglect that there will be about 1000 US aircraft with total air superiority over southen Iran and nothing will be able to move, that every dirt road and rail line to the south of Iran will be gone in the first 10 minutes, while the US supply routes will be completely unobstructed, unless NONE of the GCC countries cooperate, which will not happen. Sure, a couple of Iranian missiles might hit a couple of smaller US or GCC frigates or smaller warships and damage them, but that is insignificant and will not stop or even slow down the US whasoever.

So please provide proper information in your posts, and if you don't have it, please do your homework first. Even more so if you accuse others of BS'ing.

In other words, be

FAIR

Bring it on

This is all BS. If Iran is so weak then bring it on Israel the puppet master.
I just feel sorry for the American men and women whom have to die for the glorious state of Israel.

why didn`t they use use

why didn`t they use use this Navy to rescue iranian ship captured by Somalian pirates istedenfor paying them !or maybe this is just "lego Navy" for showing off on video !

In regards to the AWACS

In regards to the AWACS comment, about Iran only operating ex-Iraqi AWACS! why do people BS and pretend to know facts when it is so obvious that they are pulling things out of their you know what? Iran has had AWACS capability for many years since before the revolution, and during the war AWACS was one of Iran's advantages over Iraq. Also the F14, with its powerful radar was used extensively as an AWACS unit throughout much of the war.

In regards to the US forces in the Persian Gulf; why do so many Iranians overestimate the US Naval capabilites in the region, when even US Navy leaders have expressed their many disadvantages? The Iranian ships, submarines, hovercrafts, etc that you see in the video pose no real threat to the US Navy, but the real threat comes from coast to sea missiles from mobile platforms, which can be easily concealed, and fired from any point in the long narrow stretch of the persian gulf. Even a simple unguided artillary piece can pose a threat. The US has very advanced means of defeating each individual threat, but can only maintain this advantage if they can resupply at the rate of the enemy firing from LAND!

He makes sense with 1 n or with 2

Please! let's listen to/read the message, did it make any diff. if his alias was written with 2 n ? 

I DO agree with what "Anoyed" says.

 Write a blog or an article for God's sake!   

You are not forced to read the whole thing Mr. Anoyed w/1 n!

"This is getting ridiculous!"

Way 2 go Iranian military! get ready 4 israeli attack! Show'em the lion! 

LIMIT ON THE COMMENTS LENGTH...

Would that be possible to have limit on the Length of comments here. Comments should be short and to the point.

If people want to write articles they should post it on the main page, not in the comment sections.

This is getting ridiculous, one Lengthy comment in response to another lengthy comment and back and forth....

And you know about Iranian military assets??

What the heck do YOU know? Just because there is a plane with a dome on it does not mean Iran has an operational AWACS. All Iran has is Saddam's AWACS which ran away to Iran 17 years ago, and they are actually in pretty poor condition today. And if you know so much, perhaps you can explain how a 25 year old Russian cargo plane with a 25 year old French radar and avionics is going to communicate with and control some 35 year old American build fighters flying for Iran??

You don't need to suggest places for me to go, I am a frequent visitor and contributor in that forum. In fact if you really want to have people laugh at you, go to that forum and say that Iran has operational AWACS.

And perhaps since you have "documents" and you can show them anytime, you can prove to everybody here that Iran has an operational AWACS capable of commanding and conrolling and informing operational Iranian fighters of incoming threats over a larger area (whcih is the definition of an AWACS). Will you do this? I didn't think so....

FAIR

Cameron Jan, we are on the same side

I am glad we agree on the main points, foremost of which is we hope to never have a war again.

Also, it seems we agree- Iran has yet to demonstrate that it has a domestically manufactured fighter plane, despite all the claims. Projects and proposals that went halfway when the Russians pulled out don't count.

Also, I must take issue with your statement

"some 30 years ago, Iran had nothing… just imported equipment. Today
even if they build small arms, that per se is an achievement."

When in fact 30 years ago Iran put up very important industrilal base- Bell Helicopter, Iran Aircraft industries (with Northrop), Iran Electronic Industries (with Hughes/Westinghouse), Ammunition industries (Bofors of Swedent), and many light arms (like the ones these takavars are carrying). Also, Iran had all the overhaul capabilities you mention today 30 years ago. 30 years ago, Mehrabad was the ONLY airport in the middle east which had permission from PanAm to conduct overhauls on its 747's. So please do not disregard the base that Iran had already achieved in 1979, only to be touted today by this government who takes credit for it.

Furthermore, can you point us to the picture of live firing of the Hawk from the F-14? I have seen just about all the pictures published in this regard, and none of them have that. Yes, they showed a Hawk mounted on an F-14 very recently, but the project was originally from the late 80's, and at least at that time was unsuccessful.

And in Iran Contra, I disagree with you completely- the goods shipped to Iran included Tow and Maverick and Hawk missiles, and these were absolutely crucial in Iran's subsequent offensives, including the taking of Fao peninsula. I repeat- ALL SUPERPOWERS- that is the US, USSR, and China sold weapons to both sides during this war. Ironically, 2 of the only countries which consistently supplied only Iran were Israel and Syria!

Also, you need to be more specific about manufacturing of Phoenix missiles in Iran. What are your sources? Do you know what it takes to manufacture a missile that goes Mach 5, a ceiling of 10000 feet, and a range of 100 miles? The Russians could not manufacture such a missile reliably (the R-37's claims of range, etc. is questionable), and the US abandoned it because it was too expensive. And you are saying that Iran with all its econmic problems, has built and maintained an industry capable of making this missile? (because that is what it takes- a multibillion dollar industry). Then how come every time I see a picture of an F-14 (or any Iranian plane for that matter) it rarely has even one missile on it?

I wish so much that the claims Iran makes were true, it would be a great accomplishment for our people no matter who were in power. But everytime they brag about such things and don't back it up, they lose more credibility.

-FAIR

quack quack

Here is one of them:

//maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=27.141751,56.21...

Now go and try to find any other country's strategic assets in plain view on google maps. No doubt someone had a good chuckle over this one.

Cameron Jan, we are on the same side

I am glad we agree on the main points, foremost of which is we hope to never have a war again.

Also, it seems we agree- Iran has yet to demonstrate that it has a domestically manufactured fighter plane, despite all the claims. Projects and proposals that went halfway when the Russians pulled out don't count.

Also, I must take issue with your statement

"some 30 years ago, Iran had nothing… just imported equipment. Today
even if they build small arms, that per se is an achievement."

When in fact 30 years ago Iran put up very important industrilal base- Bell Helicopter, Iran Aircraft industries (with Northrop), Iran Electronic Industries (with Hughes/Westinghouse), Ammunition industries (Bofors of Swedent), and many light arms (like the ones these takavars are carrying). Also, Iran had all the overhaul capabilities you mention today 30 years ago. 30 years ago, Mehrabad was the ONLY airport in the middle east which had permission from PanAm to conduct overhauls on its 747's. So please do not disregard the base that Iran had already achieved in 1979, only to be touted today by this government who takes credit for it.

Furthermore, can you point us to the picture of live firing of the Hawk from the F-14? I have seen just about all the pictures published in this regard, and none of them have that. Yes, they showed a Hawk mounted on an F-14 very recently, but the project was originally from the late 80's, and at least at that time was unsuccessful.

And in Iran Contra, I disagree with you completely- the goods shipped to Iran included Tow and Maverick and Hawk missiles, and these were absolutely crucial in Iran's subsequent offensives, including the taking of Fao peninsula. I repeat- ALL SUPERPOWERS- that is the US, USSR, and China sold weapons to both sides during this war. Ironically, 2 of the only countries which consistently supplied only Iran were Israel and Syria!

Also, you need to be more specific about manufacturing of Phoenix missiles in Iran. What are your sources? Do you know what it takes to manufacture a missile that goes Mach 5, a ceiling of 10000 feet, and a range of 100 miles? The Russians could not manufacture such a missile reliably (the R-37's claims of range, etc. is questionable), and the US abandoned it because it was too expensive. And you are saying that Iran with all its econmic problems, has built and maintained an industry capable of making this missile? (because that is what it takes- a multibillion dollar industry). Then how come every time I see a picture of an F-14 (or any Iranian plane for that matter) it rarely has even one missile on it?

I wish so much that the claims Iran makes were true, it would be a great accomplishment for our people no matter who were in power. But everytime they brag about such things and don't back it up, they lose more credibility.

-FAIR

In the last 300 years Iran has attacked many countries

Check your fact sheet. I've written about it and I don't wish to repeat it here again, which is unfair, but I just couldn't let someone claim that Iran has not attacked any country as if we are not stupid enough to do so.

Iran has no chance

I guess you don't know ANYTHINg about Iranian military assest... I suggest you go to //www.s188567700.online.de/forum/index.php and talk to some military expert... Iran even hsas AWACS and other military equipment... i have pictures and documents to prove it at anytime...

Fair jan,

I like your points … they seem to be factual and clearly you have taken an interest in the military development in Iran and other countries.

Now ... asymmetric warfare can be - and is done all over. It is a strategy as old as described in Sun Tzu’s Art of War. So yes … it can be used on sea … please read the wargame in 2002 that I posted earlier. Every single military analysis - in a potential naval war between US and Iran - is mentioning asymmetric war on the sea.

Shafafg is a trainer / light attack fighter. Not just a trainer. It was a joint project with the Russians .. . they pulled out and Iran continued. Again … these are all stepping stones in developing a genuine modern aircraft domestically. Murgh ashura has been in development for some time … along with another aircraft called ‘Iranian Lion’ (a mix between Tomcat and MIG 29). I am not saying that all these projects will solidify, but the fact is that an industrial base is being created. Remember… some 30 years ago, Iran had nothing… just imported equipment. Today even if they build small arms, that per se is an achievement.

I do correct myself … I meant HAWK … and YES there are pics of the missile being fired from a Tomcat … furthermore, this new use of a HAWK is as recent as 2006 and not during the 80s.

I do remember Iran contra and many reminded me about it when I was in Nicaragua last year … but what you are referring to was some landing gear equipment and avionics of the tomcat that Iran could get.

Since then almost every part of the tomcat is being manufactured in Iran. The range of tomcat’s radar has been increased (with help of the Russians … they got one of our tomcats in return, to study it and could reverse engineer its Phoenix missile).

Today all phonons missile of the Tomcat is produced domestically … Iran is also producing aircraft tire and landing gears, overhauling aircrafts, (fighters and civilian … among them 747s).

Now as far as the Ilyushin goes, you are right… They were flown into Iran by the Iraqi’s along with 24 Mirage, a number of MIGs etc. But they are in service and they number 4!

Iran’s rhetoric in the beginning of the revolution was insane. But that was NOT why everybody got involved and supported Saddam. It had to do with geopolitics (another discussion), economics, Pan Arabism, preventing a revolution to reach the Wahabis in Saudi and much more. Remember Khomeini was escorted by the French pilot when setting his foot in Iran. The US staged the revolution … I think we all can agree on that… so … it was not the rhetoric. It was when Khomeini and the Islamists decided to go their own way that saddam was encouraged to attack and got support from all over.

Sure some countries sold to both sides … Sweden was one of them. Olof Palme (the former Swedish PM who was assassinated) was so called the head peace negotiator while selling arms to both sides.

In any event I cannot agree with you more, that was MUST be avoided at any cost.

As you and many other Iranians, I hope for peace.

Haji Firoz

All these years Haji Firoz was a Takavar Daryaie and I didn't know it. Dame my history teacher never mentioned it.

  Abarmard- Asymmetric

Abarmard-

Asymmetric warfare works on the ground after they have invaded you and are moving among you. Then you have guerilla warfare and it is a war of attrition.

It does not work in the air or at sea. Iran tried it in the 1980's and got its butt kicked. You don't attack an aircraft carrier or an Aegis cruiser with a bunch of fiberglass boats or copies of North Korean midget subs. And if you fire a silkworm agains the Eisenhower it will just bounce off. And that is if it gets anywhere within 20 miles of the Eisenhower.

Cameron-

Yes, we were at war with the world - and for a reason. Our leader picked fights with everybody in the region (death to Israel, death to Saudis, death to America, death to England, death to the opponent of velayate faghigh, did I miss someone?) while destroying our military. That is called overestimation of one's capabilities. And it is even worse than what you say- whenever we were in serious danger they sold us weapons too. In fact, Iran Iraq war was the only war of the 20th century in which all superpowers (including China) sold weapons to both sides. A clear indication of the stupidity of both side's leaderships.

Regarding Shafaq and Murgh Ashura. Shafaq is a trainer, and has not yet been built, there are only mockups. And what is Murgh Ashura? And Saeghe is a modified F-5- by now a 50 year old plane, and as you mentioned, The F-17 plans and the facilities existed in Iran 30 years ago (Jack Northrop was a personal friend of the Shah). So you or anyone have yet to show even ONE locally designed and manufactured fighter plane from Iran.

And which AWACS does Iran possess? It has two ex-Iraqi Ilyushin AWACS which were modified in Iraq in the 1980's to carry a French radar, and they don't work today. Only one of them flies from time to time, and its radar and avionics (already 25 years old) don't even work anymore. And if they ever manage to take off from Mehrabad, how long do you think it will stay airborne before an F-15 takes it out?

Furthermore, the F-14 was modified to fire a HAWK missile, not a TOMAHAWK missile. Only the US and UK and only recently Spain have Tomohawk missiles. The F-14 was modified in the 1980's (unsuccessfully) to carry Hawk missiles because they were running out of other kinds of missiles. That is why you never saw a picture of an F-14 live firing a Hawk missile. Which is a rather silly idea to begin with, since the Hawk is a surface to air missile. Of course this all went away when America came to the rescue with a cake and some very needed parts and missiles in 1986. Remember Iran Contra?

Iran's main advances in the military arena has been the manufacturing of unguided rockets, and small munitions, and if their claims are to be believed, the manufacture of small naval craft like corvettes. This does not even come close to helping defend the country in case of conflict. It is only enough to make some trouble for the other side and piss them off more.

I hope we NEVER see another war again.

FAIR

Somali Pirates

i'd like to see the Iranian Navy go and kick some Somalian pirates ass.