SEX

Why then..

If virginity and current social norms about marriage and sexual relations are so right then why so many divorces in first marriages? why the number of divorces is soaring so high in Iran which apparently is the champion of keeping virginity of girls? and the other question to those who are paranoid about past relations of a woman and its effect on the husband, why is it that women are happier and more loyal in their second marriages than first in most cases?

The truth is that most of men and even some women feel that their possession is not complete if their partner had contact with others previous to being with them. Linking this matter to traditions does not change the fact that it is wrong in any society. If men can be a good and devoted husband and father after sleeping with other females then why their female partners can not have the same status and still be a good partner and a good mother after she had experienced sexual relations with other male? Why social fabric and morality does not get damaged with men fooling around but if a woman does one hundredth of that then society is breaking appart? It's the men who create prostitutes since they are the buyers. the market trend follows the same line of demand and availability in every field.

Irani woman pointed a very important issue very correctly but it seems the ego of some people make it fall on deaf ears instead of looking at it objectively. From what I see, when it comes to sexual relations, most Iranian men follow the line of ayatollah because it benefits them or maybe they think it protects their feelings. and I am saying this as a man and as a father.

my question to people like Azad99 is how do you know your grandma was happy or did not have a premarital affair? would she tell you about that?

and to the Ananymous2010 I must say if a man is sick enough to always think about who stuck it up to his wife previously then how can he feel secure when he is away from his wife after her virginity is taken away by him? what guarantees that this woman who was virgin (suppose the virginity was not repaired) when slept with him the first time, will remain loyal?

Young men are refusing to marry in Iran these days mainly because there is not enoug job and no source of revenue to support starting a family. It is true that other factors may also be involved but the main issue remains to be economy and current government in Iran is the most important source that problems and many others that Iranian youths are facing today.

To Azad99

Nice one.

You sure have a valid reason asking me if it is not ME who is brain washed.

I owe you the answer.

I have thought about that.

I have questioned that much in the past and still try to critically look at it with all the objectivity and self-criticism I can muster.

Being very sincere and moving away from my ego, No … I don’t think so.

I think the western culture is very decadent. It is full of flaw and has was assembled rather than grown and experienced by generation after generation such as the Eastern culture or that of the Mayans and the Aztecs. The signs of this statement are surfacing more and more. And much of your said such as I quote you “people are still so unhappy; living on Prozac and depending on all these "counselors" and "relationship experts" to keep their lives together? why is there such a huge rate of divorce, adultery, teen pregnancy, single parenthood, divorce lawsuits, DNA tests to figure out whose the "father", dismantled families and sad lonely people?!! .

You are absolutely right.

It think the focus on materialism in the western culture has not only make these people very unhappy but also has infected many other countries far away, such as ours, China, Latin America.

But I do not recall that I ever defended or said anything about western culture.
What I defended was the god given right to EVERY human being in their pursuit of happiness. And sexual relationship which is part of love is one of those rights.
I am saying and standing by it that a healthy erotic life contribute to a healthy and balanced life. I hope you do not contest that. I also asserted that I am NOT promoting lots of different partners. As the matter of fact, the ideal situation would be to find your partner at an early age and explore everything together. But that is unrealistic. Unless of course the union is overtly or covertly forced – either by the society, family or needs of various nature.
The issues that I talked about were
1- An arbitrary view and treatment of women’s and men’s sexual behaviour and the expectations from them - which I already have made my point.
2- The attack you launched on feminists – which I believe that the are fighting for women’s right which has been curbed for centuries in almost every country we see today.
As far as your grand mother. God bless her. But you must agree that there are not many like her. Just look around and see all those women who are forced to live with there husbands for their entire lives. Also, in our society ‘Zane Bive’ did not ring too good in many ears. So, because of the fact that many men were taught that virginity is equal to being clean and immaculate, many divorced women did not stand a chance to re marry and continue a happy life.
For the record, I never called you backward and if you got that impression, I sincerely apologize.
All I said and still say, is that please open your mind a bit more and try to look further and beyond what you, me and many more were indoctrinate in a society that still promotes 'Ghame Zani.
Regards
Cameron

Cameron

You'll soon get a 100Afarin from JJ

Reply to Anonymous2010

Dear Anonymous2010,

Thanks for a sober way of defending the norms INVENTED in our societies and defended from all aspects and point of view … from religion, tradition and hey … as you now mention even evolution!

But before I reply to your comments and assertions, I would like to ask you for a favour … well actually two.

1- Please do not refer to me as an intellectual, because I am not and I almost get offended by that label.
2- Do not assume anything about me of how I feel or why I feel it (or about anyone else for that matter).

Now … let me tell you what I think about your comments and perhaps further explain the content in my first posting.

To begin with, there is no dispute here that feelings of jealously are there when knowing that your wife has had others and perhaps done all the sexual acrobatics that she does with you with another men too. Jealousy is a natural feeling. Just like hatred, anger, envy and all other negative emotions that tear our souls apart.

The question is, do you give in to that or not?

Also … you think it is different for a woman? Put yourself in the shoes of a woman. How would you feel if you knew that your man, who is fathering your child and promises fidelity and repeats into your ear that you are the love of his life, would brag about how many blonds, brunettes and red hairs he has laid?

My point? It goes both ways.

And in both cases it is an unwise thing to do to talk about past experiences. It is unnecessary and most often than not, it can be misunderstood. I mean, I am sure you have had intimate encounters that afterwards you thought to yourself, ‘What the hell was I thinking’? now if you tell that your future partner, your future partner may not understand you and think to herself/himself that you had the bang of your life and she/him can never measure up. While in actual fact you may not have even enjoyed it or gotten anything out of it.

So, not talking about our past experiences is not only wise, but also courteous and shows good manners.

Again, please note, that I am not disputing that it is hurtful to create a mental image of your beloved to be taken in all angels by another man. All I am saying is that it is up to you, if you give in to these destructive journey which has no end … just as if you would give into your anger and slam a door or get physical. Does it happen? Sure it does …for us all. But that is no excuse to deprive young healthy men and women of the blessings if intimacy and love.

As far as your evolution theory, well I am not too sure it holds. When a woman gets pregnant most certainly she remains close to her mate for protection (mental, emotional, financial etc.), Unless of course she is participating in an orgy, or being promiscuous. But orgies and promiscuity is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about an arbitrary norm which differentiates men’s and women’s urges that are identical, although differently manifested and expressed.

It is of course ideal to have a ‘Shrin o Farhad’ relationship. It is perhaps the most desired situation when a man and a woman meet at a young age, fall in love and give themselves to each other for ever. But that is very rare. For several reasons. Many do feel curiosity, many do not have good role models in life (such as loving parents, setting a benchmark for what love in a family is) and without getting into physiology, many women suffer from an absent father at home and thus, seek the approval of many men - and same goes for boys and men who experience a cold mother.

Also, what is the probability of you or me or Shiela or Marjan or Mraym get it right the first time? I mean, are you for getting married and then stay there, hell or heaven? Do you really think that a short period of courting ‘Namzadi’ is sufficient to really chose your partner at an age when you hardly have matured emotionally and intellectually and lack life experience? IT MAY HAPPEN … yes… but again – very it is very rare, as if winning a lottery. Even if during your so called non-sexual Namzadi, you really are upfront with your prospect and truly show ALL your sides (which also never happens), still if you guys may fail in the bed (maybe physically you guys do not fit, an odour that you don’t like … many possible scenarios) still it is hard to remain in that relationship.

Now you may say … Hey Cameron … life is not about fucking only. And I would say … Hey dadash …You are right … not ONLY. But never forget, if there is no great bond between a man and a woman – which healthy sex and erotic life is a major contributor to and greatly reinforces it – then no happy family will exist either. Children will learn loving by looking and learning form their parents. If the parents are distant to each other, they will not be able to learn how to love and truly give and take, how to compromise and how to respect their partners.

Now … personally … for sure my blood would boil picturing the woman I love with another man. Or even if she ever would give looks to another man. Of course. But again … it is about understating…it is about fairness and it is about controlling our emotions.

Listen … look at yourself. I would guess that you are in your mid 30s (really matters not). Now if you look back at your previous relationships, then you will find that many a times, you went into a relationship with sincere intentions and wanted the relationship to last (or at least I hope you did). But they didn’t. So what to do? What would you have done if you were given a second chance to re-experience your life? Would stay with that first women to whom you gave your virginity to? Or no? and all I am saying is that it is no different for a woman.

Woman’s jealousy can be terrible. Trust me I know. And some react far strongly than we men do by the though of other women. But they don’t tell you. All you see, is a lessen sexual appetite and perhaps if you are sensitive enough, you will feel the difference in the taste of their kisses.

We men are more crude and direct … louder.

Now you tell me and all other readers that you have been in N. America for 25 years and all your American friends agree with you. So???

Someone may be living a whole lifetime in a different environment and still cling to the very initial conditioning they were exposed to when they were kids. Want some evidence? Just look the way the Pakistanis live in the US and UK, or orthodox Jews, or Arabs … and of course some of our very own beloved countrymen and women.

Also your American friend’s opinion and the way they feel and think does not add any weight to your argument as they seem not to be very enlightened people and we all know that the average middle class American is not really famous for being a champion of reflection, mental and emotional exercise.

You do surprise me a bit though. You seem to be quite articulate and yet can not hold your anger back. You insult me, by calling me a hypocrite, whilst knowing nothing about me or without asking for further explanation.

But that is ok … it is an emotionally charged subject and I can understand that it gets to many of us.

Just to end this, the very traditions and roots that you are talking about, is what has got you here in the first place. If people would not have been so inhibited about their feelings, and their desires, perhaps they would have been far more relaxed, and by being so, far less materially oriented which per se would have resulted in trying to find a perfect partner with the very first attempt, instead of being fooled by glamour, money or a pair of big titts for that matter.

The very social structure that you mention and predict that will be fucked soon, is a result of those false norms that were invented, which are a far distant from human nature. And I agree with you that the world is going starting to hell … but that is NOT because women can not hold their ‘Bande Tomboon’ – got me?

Have a good one and next time you see your wife or girl friend, just focus on her smile and that how much she loves YOU …

Regards,
Cameron

هنر بین ایرانیان است و بس

Bravo! go on. The winner will be the one whose comment trepasses 10000 lignes. This is really art ...

Interesting

Interesting video clip Dear Abarmard, apparently there was a global sexual revolution going on in the 70's. I don't think that I have ever seen such a mini mini dress before.

Solh va Doosti

Natalia

Where is Dk

Kako nisti. Here is sex according to Jaheli crowd during the 70's Tehran(Teyroon): I feel like I am doing DK's job here ;)

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUUYCB9C4us&feature...

Still happening today..........

You don't have to go back 30 years because it is still happening today. It is happening within various ethnic and religious groups.

The protection of the women's purity is of great focus for them. No one seems to care about protecting the purity of the man. On the contrary they are encouraged to soak their wild oats.

Double standard has always existed and will always exist.

Solh va Doosti

Natalia

To Cameron

Well, you are just proving my point about people being branded as "backwards" if they challenge the current Western life-style.

You seemed so shocked and in disbelief because I said that we need to go back to our own values. So, according to you it must be that I do not have enough knowledge, that my idea are not even mine and they have been "installed" in me, that I have been indoctrinated, brainwashed and conditioned to criticize the current "modern" life-style and promote our own values. And of course, your own views are deeply rooted in "human nature", genetics, psychology and even spirituality! It is the only way to have a fulfilling relationship, a great sex life and to grow spiritually and mentally.

But my question to you is; has it even occurred to you that YOU might be conditioned and indoctrinated to believe these things? If the key to a happy life and personal growth is follow this "modern" life-style, then why is it the in Western countries people are still so unhappy; living on Prozac and depending on all these "counselors" and "relationship experts" to keep their lives together? why is there such a huge rate of divorce, adultery, teen pregnancy, single parenthood, divorce lawsuits, DNA tests to figure out whose the "father", dismantled families and sad lonely people?!!

And you think that my mother and Grandmother's generation were unhappy?!!! Well, my grandmother lost her husband 40 years ago, and she still has tears in her eyes when she talks about him, so much they loved each other. She didn't have to "experiment" or sleep around with other men before marriage and have a collection of "ex-boyfriends" to build such a loving and lasting relationship that even death couldn't break up. Who are you trying to "save"? From what are you trying to "save" her?

Irani Woman

Just out of curiosity: How did you manage to reach the conclusion that the bad quality of your sex life with your husband was due to your virginity?

It seems to me that your first husband was a poor performer in bed and probably a selfish man when it came to YOUR needs. And it seems that his performance is actually the real cause of your bad sex life. Really! What does it have to do with you being a virgin when you married him?

Had your husband been a better lover and had he satisfied you in bed, would you still be complaining about your virginity at 19?

Unless, you mean that every girl should try out the man in bed first before she marries him, like when you buy a new pair of pants and go to the fitting room to see if it suits you. Is this your idea of how marriage should be?

If yes, then why do you complain about your husband seeing prostitutes. If all there is to marriage is just sex, why set boundaries at all? After all, people grow tired of each other after a couple of years and, even for the most "experts" of men and women, marital sex becomes boring after a while. So what's YOUR prescription in this case? Should they split as soon as the sex is not good anymore, should they go fuck around, or should they just accept that sex is not EVERYTHING in life?

Concerened

I read it and that is my response. "Typical" response to an "important" point?

Typical meaning "discussion" of sex during sex doesn't happen and if it happens it is men's "typical" problem?

Important meaning, discussing sex is more important than sex itself?

Exploring sex was never an "option", whether it was 30 years ago or 300 years ago. You can however use your imagination and realize sex is supposed to be fun (although many would laugh at this statement :-). 30 years or 300 years ago or 30 years from now, discussing "sex" during sex is not a good idea, whether it is a "typical" problem or an "important" point.

Anonymouse, be quiet and read more carefully

What a typical response to a very important point raised by Irani woman. You didn't even read what she said before jumping in to give your opinion. She did not describe a present problem but a past problem and a more general one. "exploring sex" was not an option good girls had 30 years ago.

Cameron, These beautiful

Cameron,

These beautiful theories of yours are not compatible with the reality on the ground. You can twist words in any way you want to justify sex before marriage and get cheered by a handful of ladies here, but the truth is that premarital sex creates all sorts of bad emotions and hurtful feelings for both sides after marriage. And this is the reason why there is a need to hide it.

They hide it in Iran and they hide it here too. In Iran, they hide it because women think they have violated a social norm, and in the West, they hide it in the name of preserving their relationship. But they hide in nonetheless. Western people would tell you "You're not supposed to talk of past relationships with your lover" or "never mention an ex in front of your new lover" etc. for the same reason they do it in Iran: Because deep down, they realize that, it is not something that is well taken by normal men.

Have you ever observed that? Have you ever noticed that women, even in these highly praised Western societies, DO and MUST hide their past relationships or lie about the number of sex partners they had in the past, in order to preserve their current relationship? Have you ever asked yourself WHY it is not well-taken anywhere?

Well, it's because the concept of "ex-boyfriend" and past sexual relationships is not compatible with human nature. It creates jealousy, insecurity, rage and a very inconvenient feeling that is always with the man. This is true with everyone, and those of you men who deny it, are just not sincere. Just the image of your wife riding someone else makes your blood boil. Don't you agree? Don't you agree that deep down, even YOU Camron, would rather have married a girl with no past experience?

The truth is that many of these traditions are not there just by chance. They are rooted in human nature. There is an element of wisdom in them that many new intellectuals such as yourself don't understand or choose to neglect. It has nothing to do with religion either. Just look at it from an Evolutionary stand point: A woman that has had sexual relations with other men, can NEVER really reassure a male that the child is his (and I'm talking about the subconscious level). Men have no way of knowing for sure in their subconscious, that the child their wife is bearing is theirs. That's why they are, naturally and subconsciously, much more reluctant to go with someone who has had sex before than someone who has not. And very often, religions and traditions only reiterate these realities in their own words. You can come up with all sorts of theories again to bash Judo-Christianity or Islam, but the truth is that most traditions and religions around the world, from Africa to Japan to China, the Middle East and Native Americans, all despise in one way or another a woman who has had multiple partners. And it's not a conspiracy. As I said, traditions often reiterate the realities of human nature in their own words.

And no offense, but I think that people like you are hypocrites. You lie to yourselves. You mask your feelings with all sorts of subterfuges and pseudo theories. You oppress your own anger and suppress you natural feelings to fit the intellectual crowd. But I know that deep down, just the mere idea of picturing your wife with her ex makes you go wild with rage. And it's not because you think sex is dirty! IT'S ONLY NATURAL. But people like you choose to oppress their nature and think it's healthy. Come on! Just take a look around you and see how many unhappy men you see in these so-called free societies where it is encouraged for male to forgo their nature and blindly accept these volatile liberal social norms?

I have been here for 25 years, and let me tell you that most of my North American male friends (whether from university or work), if only given the space to express themselves without being branded as "backwards", would tell you that they HATE the idea that their wives have had sex with other men before them. Most of them would tell you that the mere "knowledge" that someone else has stuck it up their wives is constantly there to bother them. And that at every occasion, and at every fight, this issue is somehow emboldened and brought to surface.
These people are unhappy because they have gone against male nature. They have given in to all these fancy theories about sexual freedom. They've been taken by greed and an indefinite urge for pleasure at the expense of real happiness.

But feel free deny all that reality and tell us how the sky is blue and how birds are singing love tunes?

I believe that we ought to go back to our roots and restructure our society accordingly. Anything less than that would have only disintegrate our social structure and have devastating consequences. Young men have already stopped getting married and I bet that with this trend, the next generation would be ten times as f**cked up as the current one.

Irani Woman

Sometimes "discussing" sex with your partner kills the mood. Since you were able to reach orgasm nothing must be wrong with you physically.

Perhaps mentally if you keep telling yourself something is wrong, something will be wrong. Sex is not a discussion. Sex education is a discussion.

During sex you are supposed to romantasize, fantasize, oohs and ahhs and anything that tickles your fancy. But stopping sex to "discuss" what is wrong is definately not good and ruins the moment, for you or your husband.

You know, men keep hearing from women that we need to be more sensitive and more romantic and prepare and fore play and kissing and all of that, and we keep telling women, men are NOT like that. Some men may be like that but that is because their woman does NOT ask them all of these stuff! Does that make sense?!

It is a shame that some parents don't discuss sex with their children, but that should not be a reason a person doesn't search for him/herself. Especially if you are of dating age and passed puberty. Somehow each individual has to figure this thing out for himself/herself without blaming others.

How do we learn about things other than sex, that our parents didn't tell us about? Same thing. If you like to learn more, you put some effort into it. They don't deliver this knowledge in a silver tray and "offer" it to you. Except if you are Einollah and they "offer" you a degree!

I was that virgin

I am 46 years old. My mother never told me anything about sex. She didn't even tell me about menstrual cycles. I had to hear garbage at school and be completely shocked by my first period when I was 15. I went to college. I looked really modern and hip. But on my wedding night at 19, I didn't know where my vagina was, trusting my husband to know. I was the virgin girl every man seems to romanticize around here. I was married to him for 15 years. Not once did I have an orgasm during our sex life together. I thought I was frigid because I never experienced a climax. A few times I tried to talk to him about this, but each time I was faced with raised eyebrows and silence. He even started weeding out my friends after I started talking about sex, thinking that I was doing it under the influence of bad friends.

I divorced him and in my next marriage, I finally started experiencing sexual pleasure and orgasm and became able to talk about the experience.

The most ironic thing is that I left my first husband after I discovered he was having affairs with prostitutes. Was I really frigid? Would I have been a better sexual partner if I wasn't a virgin and had married him with prior sexual experience? I urge you all to keep talking about what is wrong with us as men, women, and parents. We have to solve it to save our children from the same experiences. Nothing is more painful than having a problem you can't even discuss with your partner, let alone others.

clip 10

Zereshk khan
I think you meant clip #10 where the haji feels ashamed of hiring a prostitute even though he put kolah sharee sigheh on the act anyway...

hypocrite bastards!

skip to clip 9

I thought clip 9 had some substance. How true that Iranians have forgotten who they were, and have mutated into this twisted mysoginist sex despising culture: It's Ok to fuck any woman you fancy, just as long as she says "taqabalallah", and your wife doesnt find out. The hypocricy of it all.

Dear Cameron Batmanghlich

I read your comment to Azad99. Well thought out and written. Absolutely outstanding.

I must say, what others may not. The woman in your life is most certainly fortunate. :o)

Solh va Doosti

Natalia

perspective

Dear Haj
Nobody is saying that promiscuity is good and healthy! what people are trying to say here, is that counting too much on the hymen membrane as a proof of innocence and purity backfires. Most of these ideas expressed in these video clips are regressive and ignorant. Sex is a taboo in Iran, it's considered shameful and dirty. The opposite does not mean that people should be free of any moral restraints though. Sex and intimacy should be considered natural and a beautiful expression of love, and until that taboo is taken off the subject, it'll be impossible.

The prostitute who is doing everything else except a vaginal intercourse, counting on this virginity to be a measure of her purity for her future husband.

I think all men should read Cameron's comment and get a clue.

Provocation

I am not a religious guy but I think that people who want to start a honest and a healthy life should be vierge at the beginning of their relationship. I live in France and can tell you that this libertinism society has the highest rate of loneliness people! The problem is such that there are adds everywhere and which call people to break their isolation. Isn't it logical that when you go far in 'shahvat' you find yourself undeniably alone?

For me the film is a provocation I have already seen the woman at the end of the first film as being a prostitute in Tehran. Can you tell me what can she says about virginity?

They have SEX in IRan!? WOW! SCHOCKING!

There was no premarital sex, drugs or prostitution in Iran when the Shah was in power, and everyone lived in Tajrish and Zafarniyeh, and Iran was a perfect democracy with freedom.

Yeah. Sure.

thanks party girl but...

I did see all 12 parts. It still seems there is more after the 12th segment.

Hypocrisy to the bone

Pretending to be something while being something else is a legitimate act for those who believe in following the line of "taqiah" according to the "resaleh" of high ranking ayatollahs and according to sharia. Those who think this act will promote moral values in society should think again because hiding something that they think is not good for society requires lying which is another wrong act.

From what we can see in these clips, virginity can never be considered a symbol of innocence as it could easily be repaired to decieve those who are after it in a woman. It can even remain untouched for very long time while, as we can see in same clips again, the virgin has experienced the sex in other ways. All of these and many other problems are indications of a society which is driven towards sickness and controlled by a group of hypocrites not because they care for moral values (as we can see from sardar zarei confesions) but because they want to keep the authority on moral values of society as a privilege for themselves while committing every act which contradicts their own preaching.

Through out the history, women have been taken advantage of by a portion of males in different ways and in every occasion, they were blamed for corruption of society rather than their male coutnerparts. All of those men who sleep around before being married and justify that with their natural urges refuse to see that same urges exist in females and claim that females are different so they should remain untouched until married! It is just unbelievable that in this day and age the healthy relation between male and female is still a taboo to some people so that they like to justify this even at the price of driving society towards other unnatural behaviors and close their eyes on those bigger damages. here I like to borrow a beautifully expressed portion of the post by Partygirl in which she says:

"I hold Iranian mothers directly responsible for this situation. They let their daughters have plastic surgery (nose jobs at a minimum), bleach and highlight their hair, pierce their belly buttons, put on heavy makeup, and buy trendy sassy clothing and then they tell them they must stay a virgin. How practical is a Jennifer Lopez-looking virgin?!

The contradictions and double standards don't end here. Young men are encouraged to "score" and young women are encouraged to save themselves. Whom do these parents think their boys score with? Aliens?! Prostitutes? Nope. They score with girls just like their own sisters, only nobody ever talks about it. Overt attention to virginity dismisses a woman's character and "self" as the most important asset she owns, and reduces her real worth to a disposable physical attribute. So, young women are not trained to love and respect themselves once they have had sex with a man out of marriage, continuing to feel guilty about sex, leading to further mistakes in choosing partners, etc. "

Obviously, like any other time in the history, a society can not go through changing values easily and without dealing with resistance posed by the forces which are in love with comfort of old values that easily work to their advantage.

To Azad99

To Azad99

Are you for real? Please tell me you are kidding and posted those comments to just provoke people and have a good laugh.

If not … I must say WOW …

“Virginity? promiscuous habits of Western countries? The so-called Iranian "feminists" have a lot to do with this destructive trend?”

What on earth are you saying? Have you ever taken a moment to think about your claims? Did you ever had the opportunity to study human nature? Do you know ANYTHING about other cultures? And no … not only western … the Indian, Chinese, the Arawaks in the Caribbean?

Are you married? If you are I feel sorry for your wife. If you are not I feel even sorrier for your wife to be.

What you are suggesting and promoting is an absolute oppression of not only human nature and drive, but also human right.

Love and intimacy is not a commodity to be kept wrapped and kept safe for the first buyer. Young peoples’ erroneous idea of sex and intimacy is due to the fact that is regarded as dirty, immoral and promiscuous and pushed aside. So when they get a chance then there is nothing for them to just expression for their urges that has been subdued for a long time and miss the whole notion of what intimacy is about.

Any individual who enjoys emotional, mental and physical health and manages to keep a sane mind as well as an open heart which is able to feel empathy, sympathy, compassion and love needs and must have intimacy on a regular basis.

If you don’t want a relationship to be flat dead then you must have a good and healthy portion of intimacy in it. And if you do not have experienced and not satisfied your erotic curiosity, it will be very very hard to maintain a balanced and loving relationship. I am NOT saying that one must try several partners before one finds the right person for life. It may very well be that at a very young age, you find the love of your life and if you are a virgin at the time or not, matters absolutely not.

Neither am I promoting an out of hand sexual and erotic life, changing partners like underwear … no … buy thinking that a person (male or female) should remain virgin to perhaps their mid or late twenties because it is a moral thing to do…IS INSANE!

Who defines moral? The Judeo/Christian tradition or the Islamic tradion? These both traditions and principles are so way off comprehending what humanity is and how humans should live. Just take a look of what these traditions have done since their conception …

You keep your sexual urges oppressed that long … then I guarantee you, you will have major problems in your future relationship or at least, you will not be able to share a full and rich life with your partner.

Sex and erotic possess tremendous powers, affecting our minds, emotional status and even our outlook on life.

What we see in Iran (and many other countries for that matter which promotes vicinity/celibacy) is the result of idiotic norms set in those societies by people who had no clue of human nature and blindly accepted religions and/or social hierarchies set by few individuals who were after power. And funny enough those very individuals who promoted these skewed rules of conduct did not even live by them themselves.

To be immaculate my friend is not to still have you ‘Pardeh’. To be immaculate is to be clean from any anger, hate, insecurity and past emotional scars.

The very type of men who believe and promote virginity are those who most probably have no idea of how to make love. They get on, bang hard and leave. And of course … for them it is no problem to now and then stick it in somewhere else.

I have no intention to be rude to you, nor to condescend you, rather try to show you that your views may not be really yours, but a view that has been installed on your mind.

Please do read a bit about mental and emotional health and sexuality. Please do look into erotic as a way of healing, please do try to inform yourself of our genetic programming driving us to a potential partner.

If virginity would play a role when you would chose your partner, you may lose out on the opportunity of mating with that special person which is meant for you. You may end up with someone who has nothing in common with you, expect taking care of practical matters in life and leave you without the slightest chance of growing - spiritually and mentally.

The very Iranian feminists you are talking about are those who are championing to end the misery and oppression of females like your own mother and sister and cousin who had to put up with a life they were powerless to reject or change. It is this group of brave citizens who are fighting for the very basic human rights and civil liberties that is everyone’s birthright.

It is this group who now is fighting to break the sick and faulty reign of a patriarch dominance which has caused a suffocation of mankind’s true inner voice and quest for harmony and inner peace, which was so common before the Semitic traditions and philosophy and quest for power came about.

If you really want to know…in our culture in the past … we did not create a Patriarch culture rather a Matriarch. So again, the very women who are risking their necks and you call them ‘So called Iranian feminists’ are fighting for the very being who brought you to this world … namely your mother.

So please look around a bit … read and inform yourself and try to expand your mind. I tell you this, since obviously this subject touches you and makes you want to express yourself, so without a doubt you are interested, as you should be.

I hope I have not offended you.
Cameron

Going back to our own values

In Iran and many other Eastern cultures and even in Western countries until a few decades ago, chastity and virginity before marriage were highly valued by the society. People were not slaved by their urges and the society did not pressure them to "score" or "experiment" or lose their virginity before reaching a certain age. There was no such concepts (in epidemic proportion) as random dating, random sex, one-night-stands, ex-boyfriends, fuck buddies, protected and unprotected sex, sex experts, sex addicts...and there was no need for "French documentaries" about sex in Iran!

Radical feminists and pseudo-intellectuals have forced fed us these concepts for years and anyone who challenges them and calls for a return to our own values is label as "backward", "Islamist"..etc

But I don't know why Iranian men keep pretending and faking that they don't care if their wives had slept with other men before marrying them. And I don't know why the Iranian women keep blaming their parents and their culture and traditions to appease the psychological suffering and guilt they feel from sleeping around with different men, but they never question the act itself! Well, that's because we Iranians have be conditioned to believe that everything we do is wrong and we always have to follow Westerners in whatever they do.

World perceives us based on our advances and power

Obviously we live in internet era where everything goes. Talk about who has the right to do what is irrelevant, at least in sense of practicality. In the last 30 years, Iran has been at front page of world events as antagonist and people of the world are interested in it. I am sure they will be more movies like this one, 300 and without my daughter. But, they really don’t matter much. What matters is for Iran to become strong and powerful with proud people living in an advanced society, where movies like this, look more like a comedy than a tragedy.

Hypocracy of Theocracy

Iran is in big big trouble. All kinds of external, and internal pressures are ripping the country apart, and I predict Iran will be an unrecognized country to most of us in the a decade or two. For those waiting for internal reform, or hope of internal reform, that point is long passed. Only perhaps drastic action can save the country. There is no solultion inside, and at some point pressure internally will force the government to seek solution, probably externally since it can not reform itself. Reform, and adaptibility is extremely difficult for such an Oligarchy, where few centers of power have almost equal share of wealth, and influence. It reminds me of historical England of 15th and 16th century where various lords ruled the island. However the big difference is that the feudal system fit its time. IR is an 8th century, foreign identity imposed on a state that unfortunately have to live and survive in the 21st century.

To use another historical comparison, Kershaw wrote of NAZI Germany and Hitler as an state on a path of war. By 1939, Germany had no choice but to expand outward, results of policies set in place in 1933, and 1934. Iran has been placed on a path of destruction, misery, and most  likely complete dismantlement on all fronts (economically, socially, relgiously, and politically) since 1980. It is sad, but what we are witnessing is the slow, and painful death of an Empire that is shell of its former glory. It was infected in the 7th century, and every time it has attempted to recover, it has been dealt a massive, and near fatal blow.

.....آقای سردار

.....آقای سردار رضا زارعی در جریان بازجوئی، به مسئول مستقیم
پرونده
خود که از سوی آیت الله شاهرودی تعیین شده گفته است:

شما بروید خانه اقای سعید مرتضوی را هم بگردید، بعد بیاید سراغ من.
لااقل من اگر هم با کسانی ارتباط داشته ام ولی آدم ربایی نکرده ام ولی
مرتضوی دختران زیادی را که خودمان دستگیر کرده بودیم خواست که
تحویل او دهیم تا به وضع منکراتی انها رسیدگی کند ولی انها رو با خود
به منزل شخصیش برده و خانواده های آنها فکر میکند دخترانشان
فراری و یا ربوده شده اند .

اگر قرار باشد قانون اجرا شود باید سوابق و خدمات مثبت من در نیروی
انتظامی هم حساب شود. بسیار از شهروندان هستند که از ما بخاطر
خدمات شبانه روزی تشکر کرده اند و حاضرند اینجا شهادت بدهند و
قسم بخورند که من به آنها خدمت کرده ام.

همانطور که شما هم در وبلاگ خودتان نوشته بودید آقای سردار رضا
زارعی چندی پیش در یک خانه فساد همراه با 6 زن کاملا برهنه
دستگیر شد، هر 6 زن دستگیر شده اند و در حال حاضر در اختیار
قوه قضایه هستند و در بازجوی برخی از آنها اطلاعات تکان دهنده ای
از رفتار قاضی سعید مرتضوی و سردار زارعی با دختران در خانه فساد
داده اند. برخی از زنها اعتراف کرده اند که قبلا در طرح مبارزه با بد
حجابی توسط نیروی انتظامی دستگیر شده اند و مدتی را در خانه
شخصی اقای سعید مرتضوی در کنار دیگر دختران به سر برده اند.

یکی از اعتراف کننده گان تعداد دختران نابالغ را در خانه شخصی
اقای سعید مرتضوی 25 نفر ذکر کرده و گفته که هم اکنون همه این
دختران در آنجا در اسارات او بسر می برند. اعتراف کنندگان گفته اند
که اقای سعید مرتضوی از دختران نابالغ در خانه اش خواسته است
تریاک مصرف کنند که یک دختر 16 ساله در اثر مصرف اجباری مواد
مخدر سکته کرده است.

Modern sex culture of I.R....

I think the French have no idea what's going on in Iran when it comes to sexual issues, in every aspect of it overall. Same goes with those who've been out of Iran for a while (or after rev.).  

For someone who grew up in"the west" since I was a little boy and returned to Iran in my early 20s and stayed for a long time, I can assure you that the French don't know shit about this matter. Watching this issue on youtube or just going back to Iran for a visit WILL NOT  give you the smallest idea how the Persian sex life is back home. 

Honestly,back in good old Persia, It's like f?!k-fest in the third millinium. Eveybody's f*!k!#g everybody. Either they're young adolescents, teenagers, legal age, mature adults, old, even those ugly basijis or sepahis and even the stupid mullahs or whoever else doesn't make a dif. It moves, they'll........ it!!! Boys or Girls. THEY'RE THE SAME! And both gendres( boys or girls) brag about it! To their own circle of friends, but of course, not to their parents!!! Yes, there are some differences compared to the "west". The subject is not as open as it is here, it's much more discreet, but overall it's the same, and even more popular.

Exactly like here, we have st8, gay, liz., bi., trans., but in much smaller and of course, secret communities for the non-straight categories.                                                                             

And there's always the religious people who pretend to... But there are also those pure hard islamic fanatics who"keep" it till marriage...Just like here! Unfortuantly even married couples do it! Just like it happens here.                                                            

Just add the hijab or the islamic norms and keep it out of public sight and/or the familliy, the rest is the same as the west or even worse.                                                                                                 Believe it or not. 

Dear Party Girl

Unfortunately we still have many backwards thinking parents even amongst the educated bunch (as it is obvious in some of these comments).

I agree with you that the parents are the ones who are most responsible  to save their children, and mothers who have been victim of such foul ways themselves should be more alert, but  to change the negative aspects of the traditions that are so stubbornly rooted in this nation you would have to allow generations of educated and open parents who would first question their own old ways, then apply the new learnings to their behavior and methods of raising children. It's an uphill battle at the least.

Most of these folks conveniently close their eyes to the negative side effects of such pressures on the society. They are still holding on to the myth of virginity, even after watching that prostitute speak of saving herself for her future husband!! I guess I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they watched these clips.

In a country where poverty, inflation and high rate of unemployment for the youth is added to the deep rooted gender-biased traditions and the emotional pressures and violence from the government, these young people will have no way but down, and they are punished for their doomed fate.

The first step would be to hope that our people would be more tolerant and understanding, love their children unconditionally and support them. I have heard parents tell their little kids: "agar inkaro bokoni digeh doostet nadaram"or when a kid trips and falls how many iranian parents would say: "are you ok honey" instead of saying: "jelo paato negah kon havaaset kojast", how many iranian children ever hear their parents say I love you? or I am sorry?

That is the same mentality that when it goes any further will result in blaming a teenage girl for having fallen in love and marrying her off quickly to someone else to save her from herself, or worse it can even end up with violence towards the girl and in extreme cases: honor killing.

ok now I am going deeper into our parenting flaws, and I will be blamed for "western" thinking again...

just wanted to say: I agree with your points.

:0)

IRANdokht