Esfand Aashena

Esfand,

In fact I am a new member. Does 7 weeks constitute having a significant history on the site?

I am not trying to hide anything but am trying to honestly disclose the fact that this site, as flawed as it is, is quite interesting for research from a social relations, cyber-communities and diaspora perspective.

So thus, that's what I am doing here.

I see that you blog and comment here quite a bit. Can I ask you what keeps you coming back? What are your personal reasons for doing so?

visiting

iroon.com

I went, I looked, I read and I liked it.

I'll be visiting it more often.

SnakeCharmer ur not new u pulled this one out of ur kisseh mari!

Everything is sacred

Can someone enlighten me?

Can someone comment or enlighten me as a recent newcomer to IC on the "good old days" of IC? Like maybe exactly when that was, and how it was different from now?

Thanks to the person who linked to JJ's post from early 2010 about 2009 most popular features. I would be interested in looking at similar stats from other years as a comparative. I emailed site admin a few weeks back about this but didn't hear from them.

Charting numbers is one way to compare the viability of this forum for true and open discourse, but I am interested in hearing from"old-timers" how (and if) it was qualitatively different?

I am researching the content of IC as part of a larger study on political discourse among Iranians in the diaspora, just as background as to why I am interested.

thanx

I don't want this website to close.

When I found out about the other i.com, that had opened in the past 4 or 5 days, no one else had mentioned it and I wanted to mention it and make a "hoopla" and "jaar o janjal" and in the tradition of "aay vaay! aay havaar!  People!  People!  che neshastid! Peopole! ..."

I also wanted to create a rumor and see if could get anyone in position of responsibility (not those what have written ill intended comments towards me or my blog) to respond to say something.  I also provided the example of DCpersian.com which was once alive and then quietly merged into anther website.  So the possibility was there. 

I couldn't find any other title to accomplish what I explained above other than what I chose to "warn" people so as they're prepared and won't get hurt.  Lastly and certainly not the least, it was a tongue in cheek blog to find humor in people and those who have a sense of humor could read the blog with a grain of salt.  Not everyone has a sense of humor of course.

Bottom line, Mr. Amin responded and I'm glad he did and the website will stay and he is going to make some changes and not just lip service and "robust" tools!  It just makes our "jobs" harder to have two website to post our materials twice!  Or if we don't post our content in both places, it'll be a hard decision as to which website gets which!  

Everything is sacred

Market forces and self fulfilling prophecies

I think this blog hopes to create a self fulfilling prophecy by encouraging people to leave the site by putting forward that it is closing soon for some ill discussed reasons. Looking at it from an ethical/moral point  an attempt of this nature to cause the closure of what can be veiwed as a business which is actually offering a good service to its audience is actually pretty underhand. 

As an endeavour to cause the closure of the site, this blog  is  unlikely to be successful as iranian.com has been around a while and it does seem a pretty robust forum and in fact very well run and appropriately regulated with only a very light touch. The existence of this blog itself as has been already pointed out shows that it is a fair place to come to air your views and have a discussion. 

Personally in the short term I am not at all worried about the future of the website and as far as long term is concerned well we are not very good at telling the future, but it seems reasonable to assume that if the site continues to stick with its princples and offer a good forum, it is likely to enure its longevity.  

By the way the introduction of ability to delete comments by the writer of a blog is definetely a bad thing as often you can judge the merit of a blog by the comments it receives. If they are deleted, then a lot of bloggers with political bias will have the final say without being rebutted. Its like opening you house but not cleaning up any mess that comes in. The comments are democratic away of auto-regulation by the user community. 

Bizarre

I don't know what are you trying to achieve Esfand? If the site closes, it closes and we all go somewhere else. I don't know why you wish to encourage such an outcome?

The fact that this blog that tries to drive people away is tolerated and still displayed in this site gives me more reason to stay around.

Why not apply the same improvements to this very site?

Why abandon ship and start anew?

As Reagan once said here you go again!

Now the entire Iranian nation has issues while no one else has issues and I'm one of them while other Iranians have all solved things for "themselves".  That's good to know that we have Iranians on a different level that understand things that the rest of us just don't understand.  

Just because YOU say you are not trying to impose your view on me doesn't make it so.  That's why I'm referring to it as "haggling".  How do you know what imposing yourself on me means in the context that we are talking about?  Others (non-Iranians) have solved this issue and yet you're using their solution (something I'm trying to do) as THE reason behind Iranians having "cultural issues".

My example of a woman walking in "public" is no different than "speech".   If we can't agree on the definition of "public" in this context, then we can't agree on the definition of freedom of speech in the context of comment control by the author of a blog.  

At any event, just like abortion or prohibition where there had been enough talks and the realities of times changed things and laws were made, here on i.com we've talked about it enough with 100% freedom of speech Iranian style and things are about to change.

Just like abortion and prohibition people are still "haggling" for it.  By all means I hope after this is implemented we'll be able to see a blog from you on the subject so that we can guage whether it was good or bad. 

Mehrban jaan I hope you and ALL those who have "haggled" about preventing this under Freedom of Speech will again be 'complete' enough to write about it and judge it like they are "pre-judging" it now.   

Everything is sacred

Mehrban jan

I completely agree with you, all your points. I hope that if the decision is made to go ahead with this new form of control over a subject matter, it is open to review. What I would not like to see is people being frightened to comment, and many blogs about the same subject as a reply to an original one. What is the point of that? It would make the website look disjointed, and how would featuring work? Many blogs about same subject, some featured so some people complaining? Like Isaid, I hope it will be open to review after we have tried it out. If that is the decision is final at this time.

Dear Esfand

Your view is not Lechaar, your expression is generally, stylistically leechar.  By the way, your example of a woman going on the street does not hold because speech has a completely different classification than a sexual act or inuendo.  I am by no means trying to "impose" my idea on you.  I am trying to make you/Mr. Amin understand its merits as I see it and as I am (yet) entitled to do on this site.  

Esfand jaan, I think it is no accident that Iran is where it is.  Unlike you I don't think it is beacuse of a few local ills like Ahmadi,etc.  I think we have considerable structural and cultural problems that have kept us back one of them is the issue of free speech it is the corner stone of a modern progressive society.  Okay Esfand jaan, I will stop commenting here on your blog as I have over stayed my welcome but think about it, somebody sometime in the 18th century said:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

That was 300 years ago, is it any wonder they are better off than we are today? 

PS:  The bolding of the quote is from the source I copied from.  

Haggling for credit = leechar

Mehrban your view is haggling my view is leechar.  In the end of every debate and conversation where everyone have been given a chance to talk and express themselves, a decision is made and moved on. 

You think my blog once published in a "public" forum is free for all.  If this is the argument then once a woman leaves her house and goes outside and in the "public" then she should be free for all as well.

I am not concerned that you're expressing yourself in my blog.  You could've made the same comments in a blog of your own, IF you couldn't here.  You are already establishing that your comments will be deleted without even having to live in such an environment.

Putting in CAPS that i.com is the ONE AND ONLY place on earth that there is no comment control does not make it any more valid.  i.com may or may not be a social website but that is not our issue as non-social websites have all pretty much the same rules.

I simply don't agree or understand why being able to impose your views on me in my blog with impunity is above not wanting to have you in my blogs.  The two should either be equal = freedom of speech or they shouldn't at all.

Everything is sacred

Dear Shepesh, thanks for the support

I really appreciate your comment.  I am not sure when this decision was made but I think it is a very unproductive one.  I think we should talk about its disadvantages before it is implemented and if we have to, even after it is implemented.  

A bad thing is a bad thing and in my opinion it is never too late to say so.

Shepesh, I hear you about "where do you draw the line", but I think nothing is perfect and the admin did as good a job as reasonably possible monitoring the comment section (metaphorically as the Law) while leaving the blog content well enough alone as personal intellectual property.   All the best.

Mehrban

I agree with you 100%, and so do many people. But I think they have now given up since the decision has been made. I think the problem with this is one person's troll is anothers freedom fighter or comedian. And all you need to do is to look at this website and you will see people with opposing views being personal in their exchanges, but somewhere in that comment is a valid point. What people fear is that they will simply be illiminated from discussions because of this. Also we have funny comments which some think is part of colourful dialog but others see as unnecessary. I like humour. Where does one draw the line? Even the people who are insisting on this new form of control may themselves be the type they are so against. So there is the problem with this type of moderation, it is personal to the person opening the discussion through the blog. But thank you for making these good points, but it is too late for it to be considered. I think the result is we wil see less comments as people tread on egg shells. 

There has been one feature to IC and only one feature

that sets it apart from other sites, people (Iranians) with different points of view could learn to discuss with one another, it is a habit we have never developed, I personally have learned it here (if I have learned it).  

Being from a hierarchical society we have little room for opposing ideas and do not have a capacity to even reason through our own ideas because often we don't even know why we think what we think.  Esfand jaan, I don't expect you to understand the importance of this feature, as you have consistently opted to express yourself in Leechaar as opposed to a reasonable discourse.  

This is not a social networking site, where you need to present your best face to the world.  It is THE ONE AND ONLY place where Iranians can freely express themselves and learn to tolerate each other. 

My conversation here is mostly with Mr. Amin and I am sorry that it is taking place in your blog.   I think it is my responsibility as a reader and a contributer of this site to emphasize to with Mr. Amin what it is that actually makes his site not only unique but also worthwhile.

BTW, Esfand jaan, unlike you I don't find most blogs worthless, by being here I have learned a whole lot and cherish my daily visits to this site.

 Now go ahead and try to degrade my heartfelt insistance of something exteremly important to haggling or what ever your aggressive leechaar lexicon prompts you to do.  You can not (yet) delete my reasonable comment :).  

I should've said endless haggling!

Once the price negotiations have concluded there are some who keep on haggling to see if they can somehow get some credit back somewhere somehow for having purchased the merchandise! 

In this case after years of "negotiations" the previous Publisher has already opened a new site with this feature and the new Publisher has stated he is going to do the same.  He even goes further and explains more about the fate of those who'd frivolously use this feature.  The negotiations have ended.  The freedom of speech (merchandise) purchased.  Yet a credit is still expected! 

Everything is sacred

Haggling

Is a discussion over price where two opposing views share their sides of what  the value of the object being transacted is and why.  It is the most efficient method of free market pricing.   Outside of the lexicon of Leechaar, it is called a negotiation.  

Hamsade who is Ali?

Everything is sacred

ali joon, your sentiment is

ali joon, your sentiment is actually shared by mr. amin:

mr. amin: "I reckon that if someone consistently removes viewpoints that he/she does not agree with, they were a) likely not interested in having an open discourse to begin with and b) users will eventually stop interacting and viewing their content."

Mr. Admin / Amin

I think that there should be some sort of mediation by admin in these delitions.  I can understand  deleting comments that are not related to the content of the blog, but ro remove a comment because it is a counter-point to the blog is not fair.  I will avoid / boycot those authors altogether!

On the second thought..

I'll go and check this new website, iroon.com.

Faramarz jaan two people have commented so far!

Everything is sacred

Esfand Jaan

Why don't you test the comment control feature on Iroon.com by removing your own comments, since nobody else is commenting!

It is like throwing a party at a club and putting a bouncer at the front door, but nobody showing up!

Lots of Laugh!

There IS comment control on iroon.com and freedom is lost! NOT!

Ooooh I can delete comments in my blog on iroon.com!  Oh my god!  Freedom of Speech has gone down the toilet!  OMG Iranians are deleting each other left and right!

Seriously people!  Please go to my blog on iroon.com and say something stupid just for testing so I can delete you!  LOL! 

Everything is sacred

Top Features of 2009

Here's an example and the only time we had that Top Features in 2009.  I don't recall ever having other stats posted by JJJ, perhaps Mr. Amin can post a Top Features for 2012 or 2011.

So don't take my word for it, look at the stats, the lowest blog had more than 11,000 views.  So the readership has gone down.  I believe it is the direct result of catering to the trolls and letting the content creators to fend for themselves and wrestle with pigs in muds!

The past few weeks we've had instances where 2 users going at each other and calling each other Donkeys and Monkeys on someone else's blog!  Very enlightning and freedom of speechy ey?! 

Everything is sacred

Mehrban why are you haggling?!

You say Iranians are good at shutting people?  How about haggling or complaining all the time or trying to re-invent the wheel?

We've been this through this Freedom of Speech on i.com many many times.  Let's forget about freedom of speech for a minute.  Let's say you hate my guts and your sole purpose of commenting in my blogs is to mock me (another thing Iranians are good at ;-) and ridicule me.  Let's say you have no other talent that you can show on i.com other than to go to people's contributions and try to mess it up.  What should be done about that?

If you're going to say let the Admin take care of it, I say why should we have another Supreme Leader?  No this is the author's responsibility.  Maybe someone likes being mocked.  But in general everywhere else in the cyber world this right has been given to the authors to moderate comments.

Furthermore, I believe as a direct result of this catering to trolls, i.com has lost much of its leadership AND readership where people know that coming here means wresling with pigs in mud!  Don't believe me?  Most Viewed used to be items with at least 5,000+ views.  Now you can get up there with 1000+ views and many are your run of the mill anti-everything hagglers!

For years we've gone through this discussion and process on i.com and in the end nothing happened, like US Healthcare since before Obamacare on the larger scale!  The man is going to give us this comment control, let him!  Stop hiding behind freedom of speech!  Your freedom of speech is not taken away from you.  Write your own blogs and responses if you must, or should I say "if you can"! 

Everything is sacred

First amendment I'll Pinch You Whenever I want !

To begin with I have never flagged anyone who expresses himself or herself with their full identity.

I have never flagged people who genuinely wanted to debate with me openly because I have always respected anyone who stands in the Open for their beliefs. I cannot say the same for Anonymous bloggers like you with multiple ID.

I have had differences with many people on this website from Day one including the former publisher and heaven knows how many times my comments were deleted or flagged by anonymous people even when they were not the subject of my wrath or critics. 

As such I can say quite confidently and to my own dismay that in all I must have at best used the "Flag" Button 10 times ever since it was included as a tool on this website some 5 years ago. And on the 10 times probably more than half of my alerts were ignored where as that of those who attacked me in the same way were immediately taken into account.

Now you calculate how many hours that represents in a day, week, year or years when I could have quite justifiably used and abused that ability but did not !

Now Go guess how many times have my calls for moderation ( not censorship) and quite openly without resorting to flagging people were merely ignored by the Admin?

So if anything deem yourself not only Lucky but grateful.

On the otherhand I never understood why Shirin Ebadi or Hamid Dabashi seem to have VIP Status on this website but Reza Shah Dovom ... Oops Sorry Shahrvand Reza Pahlavi doesn't when criticized or made fun of ?

Also There is a difference between opposing one's views and merely trashing any creative effort with a cheap comment just to get even with what you think is a civil right of yours or a humorous attempt aimed at hurting one's feelings. 

You and many of your likeminds have used and abused this ability to comment and get away with it without ever feeling you owed anyone the slightest apology and on many occasions even when the subject of the blog was not even related to politics. That is where I find that your kind of behavior encourages others to do the same which at times ends up in a personal, recurrent and tiresome graffity and even Vendetta on my Wall and hence encourages others to repeat the same pattern of behavior. 

THAT'S when I am prompted to demand a Fair Moderation of people's comments on my blogs because I deem I am entitled to a minimum of respect for the hard work I have done in creating them.

If the subject of my blog was purely political I have never discouraged contradiction on the contrary but when you or others come and trash a beautifully designed blog in the form of a tribute to someone dead or aim at hurting people's feelings with a disgusting post to distract others from the blogs content just because YOU think everyone shares your cynicism ... Well I simply don't buy it.

Prior to all this Flagging Nonesense this website had an editorial policy and many had to work their way up the ladder to get some form of recongnition as a Feature Writer. WE EARNED OUR PUBLIC EXPOSURE THE HARD WAY !

After having been moderated even junked away if the content of our article or photo essay was not deemed appropriate. The Titles of our articles or general presentation could even be subject to changes which is normal given that like any serious news medium this website used to have an editorial policy to which we all had to abide. But the Freedim of Blogging and the technologicial advantages that came with it were not without consequence for many who pionneered this website in it's early days.

How many former Feature writers like me have left since or are not even remembered anymore ?

A TRIBUTE: Dust in the Wind ...

Who bothers to remember Kristopher Kolumbus (aka burntoast),  dAyi Hamid , or the beautiful  Shahla Samii ? 

Who are not only offline but have passed away ? ... 

If people disagreed with what we wrote, that would appear in the Letters Section, based on what the Editor felt was a fair critic or even mockery of what was posted.

We had no say in the Editorial Choices but were happy to see that what we posted could then be appreciated by fellow colleagues, friends or family.

I take pride in what I publish and to be mocked or insulted when doing so be it directly or indirectly (often with no critical intention towards the blog's content but merely to discourage the effort and time put into it) is hurtful not just to me but to those who appreciated the effort I put into it.

Some anonymous people's behaviors with multiple ID's and Constant discouragements are far more prejudicial and hurtful than their mere words of vulgarity or not which they could use in expressing them. 

So go ahead express yourself all you want on my blogs Just don't think You are Entitled to them cause ultimately folks like you haven't contributed to the freedom of speach in any way ... You have merely benefited from it!

I'm Certainly no Orson Welles but he probably sums it best ... as a mataphor of what I have tried and failed to do Wasting my Time for the past 12 years here on IC  ... 

But Do Go On pretending You don't understand ... I wouldn't expect anything less from you or hirre  or anyother of you Anonymous Buffoons ! 

Best,

DK 

Darius KADIVAR

Humble But Prolific IC Contributor since August 28, 2000 and Former Feature writer

//iranian.com/dkadivar.html 

Paris, FRANCE 

I wonder if

Israel Lobby headed by Fred Inc and his gang would move there too?

I wonder if this new website, iroon.com would be under the occupation of 'Starve and Bomb Iranians' crowd too?

I wonder if this new website would be for rage-aholics and the continuation of 'Iran is bad bad' too?

If yes, then why bother?

I'm just saying,

Iraj

Thanks Esfand Jaan for informing us....

It is good to know about JJ site and I will see some of the folks there (hopefully)

 Cheers

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

aaa ?

Where will I be getting info ?