Making the same mistake one more time.

Faramarz_Fateh
by Faramarz_Fateh
28-Dec-2009
 

Thirty years ago, something like 60-80% of Iranians wanted the Shah gone.  That was it, nothing more, nothing less.  We never thought once about the consequences and we saw what happened.  Please excuse my language but we went from being partially submerged in "goh to being fully submerged in "eshaal"!  

Now, people of Iran are so sick of whats happened to them in the past 30 years (and rightfully so) that all they want is change, reform, an end to the current regime.  From my numerous blogs you can easily see that there is no one out there who hates the IRI and Islam more than I do.  Thats a well documented fact.

But for God sake, for once, lets think about what we are doing.  Lets say Khamenei and Ahmadinejad are gone.  Do we want a Islamic-Military regime to take over with one of the sepah or basij heads running the country?  Do we want Mir Hossein Mousavi or Mehdi Karroubi as a President?  What about "velayate faghih"? Do we want an Islamic democracy or a secular democracy?  Who will be the heads of the new government?  Basically, who will be the running the country until a so called democratic system is installed.

Is there unity of thought in Iran?  The only thing people are united about is getting rid of the current regime. In my opinion, whats happening is a mistake. As usual, we have not thought this thing through and the chances of another big mistake is very high.

I sure as hell hope I am wrong. 

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Anonymoses

look the hizbollah and

by Anonymoses on

look the hizbollah and taghoot have appeared again in the comments...

 meanwhile Iranians are SCREWED. Screwed because they always expect that a REVOLUTION will solve everything. It's the culture of martyr-dom complex...

Instead of pressuring from the very beginning, people wait until the pot boils over. Too late. Get ready for another ride either way.


Baba Taher-e Oryan

I second that

by Baba Taher-e Oryan on

I second what F.F posted to Darius

What has puzzled me for the last 30 years is how we the Iranians did not follow the logic, sense of direction and fairness that late Shapoor Bakhtiar offered and yet we opted for direction into dark ages

 


Faramarz_Fateh

Darius, ghorboone dahanet

by Faramarz_Fateh on

We are open to the idea of Islamic Republic reform and the likes of Mousavi, Karoubi and the other bastards, but when it comes to Reza P he is off the table.

I take even the dead Shah over any of these Islamic thugs. 


default

We Are Strange Being

by darius on

Nothing really makes sense as I watch all these event happenning.

People are cheering Rafsanjani, Mosavi and Khatami and Karroubi and other bunch of people who helped IRI but  could not giveShahpoor

Bakhtiar or even Shah another chance or a bit of forgiveness.

We accepted 30 yrs of slavery and degradation by IRI but we dare to compare  the Shah era with IRI.

I don't know what to tell you but I have no shame or sorrow to tell you all that you guys still haven't matured up andhaven't learned and again

make the same mistakes because the first step toward democracy is 

fairness and tolerance.

Please go ahead call and shout more, Mirahossein ya Hossein or Montazeri the soul of the Green movement but as long as you have no grain of forgivenss or appreciation and fairness you will be getting another IRI.

Good luck, I guess we deserve to cheer people who are planing to bomb our country and celebrate many years of airport search and

confescating our national wealth in every single foreign banks for every unimaginable reason.

Good luck , keep bringing Shah in and have no little fairness and

see no guilt in yourself or your parnets that were almost as corrupt and dictator as Shah was.


The Phantom Of The Opera

Re: It is a Myth that Royalty costs alot (62p / person in the UK

by The Phantom Of The Opera on

 Khodaa Bedeh;

Next beggar, please.

The Pahlavis and all mullahs must disclose the source and the amount of their wealth.


Darius Kadivar

It is a Myth that Royalty costs alot (62p / person in the UK)

by Darius Kadivar on

Royalty The cost, equivalent to 62p per person in the UK for the Tax payer.

It can vary from one year to another based on the economy and factors like Inflation or economic growth but all this is carefully calculated and controlled in total transparency by government and verified by the Parliment.

Just a comparison to France where just the Public Relations of the President with the Press is equivalent to 11 euro Cents per person. And that does not include his travels, State dinners, or other costs.  

Given that One Euro is 0.9 pence, I let you do the Calculation ...

In addition to jobs and tourism that the Monarchy generates for a country like Great Britian, You can imagine the advantages for a country like Iran which was known as not only the First Empire but also the Land of Kings Par Excellence ...

Latest on this Year's Inventory on the Royal Spendings in the UK (bbc)

 


Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez

My concern

by Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez on

as it is the concern of many on this web site is in what kind of government would be in place.

It is heart wrenching to see many of the protestors  being killed. All for a choice made 30 years ago.

Which frankly many of them did not make.

 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Natalia

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I know 30 years ago a lot of people wanted Islam in the government. It is a fact. 

However that is no longer so.  Past 30 years experience has opened up eyes.  I think Iran is very ready for Separation of Religion and State.  It is really a matter of survival. As long a Iran sticks to this antiquated medeival system it will be backwards. That along with oppressive enforcement of Islamic law? I don't think so. People 30 years ago were duped big time and fell for it. I don't think it'll work again.


maziar 58

salami

by maziar 58 on

 and salam are  the same.they both come out of pork.      Maziar


Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez

Chorizo........?

by Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez on

Interesting take on the issue.

 


maziar 58

unity means unity

by maziar 58 on

and that's all  they want Islam out of the office PERIOD for ever.  no mas chorizo.          Maziar


Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez

Look whether you like it or not

by Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez on

it is the reality. There were a lot of people 30 years ago that wanted Islam as part of the goverment.

I don't see that many people out there at this time. I myself was expecting a much larger group.

Those brave souls could use a much larger crowd.

So you can keep bolding my words selectively all you want. It is not going to change the reality of things.

Both Q and Jamshid used to quote and bold my words. I still kept my views.

 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

This is not about Islam

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on


Would taking it out, be seen as an attack on Islam? Last thing they
want is for another group to rise up and hamper the movement.

This movement is about freedom and democracy in Iran. Is it not about Islam. I get very frustrated when some try to equate Iran and Islam. Getting Islam out of government is of absolute paramount importance. Without that there will be no democracy or reform. It is the cornerstone of a real democracy in Iran and we need it.


Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez

mifahmam

by Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez on

No offense to the Monarchist but I really don't see the majority of Iranian people wanting a Monarchy.....

Also, I do realize that there are many that don't like Islam outside of Iran.

However, how many want Islam out of the government?

Would taking it out, be seen as an attack on Islam? Last thing they want is for another group to rise up and hamper the movement.

Unity is needed at this moment if a change is to take place in Iran.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Pahlavis & IRI

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

First of all I agree that Monarchy is not likely to return. I just don't see a desire for it. No one is carrying RP signs in Iran. They want
democray.

That to me is: elections and some sort of Majlis/ PM / President; not a king. So for better or worse the days of Kings is over in Iran. 

About their legacy:

I totally disagree with any equating of Pahlavis and Mullahs. There is a lot of difference between them. Iran owes a great deal to Reza Shah. Without him we were a backwards nation. Both Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah were patriots and dictators who on one hand loved Iran; on the other got quite autocratic.

Mullahs on the other hand  are more Muslim than Iranian. Their loyalties are divided at best. They have put Iran back by decades and tired to undo much of the good that the Pahlavi's did.

 


پندارنیک

Monarchy is more dead than you'd think

by پندارنیک on

There is no such  thing as  ceremonial monarchy as far as the son of the  shah is concerned. He is trying hard to create a democratic image for himself but I, for one, am not buying his sales pitch. I can't trust anyone from the Pahlavis. I am sure some of monarchists on IC don't like what I say and start writing their insulting remarks; that 's all they can do as a hopeless bunch, but I really  don't see much difference between IRI and Shah's regime. IRI is as brutal and anti-nation as the Shah's dictatorship was.  


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Re: Enough of monarchy talk

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

*) To me the real debate is on Separation of Religion and State. If we want to advance that is the one we should get right.

*) Monarchy is not likely to return. If it does it would be ceremonial. But then why have national resources go into supporting a royal family? Plus I see no real desire among people for it. If RP wants to come back in power he should run for office like anyone else.


hamfekr

Enough of monarchy talk

by hamfekr on

Are we still debating on the subject of monarchy? That's a non-issue now and, as far as one unbiased mind can see it'll stay as a matter of past forever. We should be mindful of the fact that Shah dug his own grave and, his son seems unable to impress any intelligent, curious and. unbiased mind. 


rustgoo

Thanks

by rustgoo on

 In case you missed it:  

I don't understand why our sisters and brothers in Iran, today, have to fight a criminal and corrupt regime only to hand over the power to a family with the same criminal and corrupt past.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

FF Jan

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

That was what was puzzling me. Thanks for clarifying your position. You pose a number of  legitimate questions. My own hope is that we do not so much get hung up on a "Rahbar". Instead put together a system that is: secular; and democratic. 

You said:  Suppose next week Khamenei and Antari are both gone. Is that enough?  Who will take over for them?  Mousavi?

It is a good start. We need to have a care taker government for a limited period maybe run by Mosavi or a group of reformists.. The job of this provisional government would be to hold elections for a new Majlis. I would not bother with a President at this point..

You said:  Suppose in addition to the rahbar and the prez, the entire majlis is dissolved.

As I said there would have to be a provisional govrenment to lead a transition. Not sure if we need  President any time soon maybe a PM is good enough.  A new Majlis would have to be elected and the position of VF must go for good.

You said: All I am saying is that for a nation and nationality that has historically had a very difficult time with consensus another haphazard revolution is not whats needed.

You make  good points. Revolution was not people's first choice. They wanted an honest election to replace Ahmadinejad. However Khamenei by his cheating  made a normal transition impossible. He is forcing people to have a revolution.


Faramarz_Fateh

Veiled Prophet

by Faramarz_Fateh on

You have read and commented on many of my blogs.  In you mind, can someone with such disdain for IRI and Islam be against whats going on in Iran now?!  What I am against is reaction based on despair.

For 30 years, intellectuals and decent human being have been shut out of the political process in Iran. There is a vacuum of leadership.  There is no one to take helm. Take control.

Suppose next week Khamenei and Antari are both gone. Is that enough?  Who will take over for them?  Mousavi?

Suppose in addition to the rahbar and the prez, the entire majlis is dissolved.

All I am saying is that for a nation and nationality that has historically had a very difficult time with consensus another haphazard revolution is not whats needed.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

FF jan what do you propose

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

You are opposed to what is going on right? So what do you propose. We live nice and comfortable in the USA. The brunt of the punishment for IRI's actions is on the Iranians inside Iran.  They have have enough of the Mullahs. I don't blame them. What comes next? I don't know.Maybe it will be worse but sometime you need to take chances.

I won't say it is impossible to get worse. But it is difficult.  As Ramin pointed out this is already a military dictatorship and has been so for 30 years. Recent actions of IRI just remove the pretense of democracy. A pretend democracy has no value. 

What do people want? To begin with democratic elections without any restriction on who runs. The good thing about democracy is that if we don't like the results we vote them out. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Feelings running high!

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Very understandably people are having strong feelings. Iran is at the verge of a big political change. We are all feeling it in the air. This is leading to misunderstandings and some mix ups which I have been guilty of myself. I like to make some suggestions:

1) We should try to be clear in what we write as to avoid mix ups.

2) We should read a posting carefully to make sure we understand the point of the poster before replying.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

benross Jan

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I am sorry if I misunderstood you. Maybe we both want mostly the same thing. I want a secular democracy. I want it to be home made but draw upon proven good ideas form all nations. 

I also don't think we need to get it all right in one attempt. Any constitution should be regularly revised to keep up with changing times. 

Anyway my 2 cents.


yolanda

......

by yolanda on

 Hi! FF,

      I have come to the conclusion that you are never pro-IRI, I reached my conclusion with less than a nano second. I believe all of you want the IRI to fall, but you guys may look things differently.....

     I visited Grand Canyon several times, I visited both the South Rim and North Rim......Grand Canyon looks slightly different from South Rim to the North Rim 'cause you look at the canyon from the different angles and different perspectives, but the Grand Canyon is still the same canyon!!

     What I am trying to say is that you have the same goal, but maybe different approaches to reach the goal........I hope you reach the same goal, which is to make Iran better and better!

thanks,

take care!

P.S.  I am really nobody here!

 

Delaram Banafsheh (Yolanda)

"Cactus in the Desert"


Faramarz_Fateh

Dear Mr. Ramin khan

by Faramarz_Fateh on

Please don't hold back your emotions. Tell me how you really feel about my blog!  Baba, baradare aziz, for once, on a serious matter like this, try and check your emotions at the door.  Objectivity and a calm cool head goes a long way in resolving critical life problems.  Unfortunately thats one trait thats badly missing is our Persian genes and very much so in your response.

Neither I, nor you speak for the 70 million Iranians who live in Iran.  If we really believe in democracy, we have to listen to and respect other's opinions.  In a democracy, votes determine outcome.

So, may I suggest that you take a hot shower, grab a glass of your favorite beverage, sit back on a comfortable sofa and re-read my blog.  Then try to objectively answer the questions.

If you or anyone else thinks for a nano second that I am even remotely pro IRI, you have serious cognitive issues.


yolanda

......

by yolanda on

 Hi! Ramin,

    Thank you for this part:

Anything is better than Ahmadinejad! Anything is an improvement to the IRI, which sent 10-year-old children to walk on mines! Any regime is superior to one which rapes virgin girls before it executes them, and then forces their parents to pay for the bullets. Any regime is better than one which has its filthy hand in teenage prostitution, sending Iranian girls to Arab lands as sex toys. Any regime is better than one which has given us massive brain drain, obscene prostitution, corruption and addiction.

It is super sad to hear about teenager human mine-sweepers (mine-detonators). All the stuff you mentioned are bad, but the image of teenagers running thru the mine-fields has stuck in my head forever.....I read it on Wikipedia 2 years ago....I was very shocked...I hope it will never happen again...

thanks,

Take care, take it easy, and happy new year!!

***************************

Hi FF,

    Thank you for your thought-provoking blog. I have no doubt that you want Iran to become better!

Thanks,

Happy New Year to you, too!!

Delaram Banafsheh (Yolanda)

"Cactus in the Desert"


Darius Kadivar

FYI/Shapour Bakhtiar on Regime Change (1989)

by Darius Kadivar on

Shapour Bakhtiar's speech for the anniversary of the Constitutional Revolution and Regime Change (1989):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8k6arXHado&feature=related

I believe it was Bakhtiar's Last Public Appearance before his assassination.

RP took the Mantle where Bakhtiar Left it:

Reza Pahlavi's message on the Anniversary of the 1906 Constitutional Revolution in Iran (2009):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFjjjGwEDkQ

There is a Logical and Clear Blueprint for Change drafted here that cannot be ambiguous neither in it's intentions or goals.

Both Bakhtiar and The Crown Prince had the same vision and saw eye to eye as to what was the Ultimate goal: A Democratic Iran that abides to the Universal Values of Human Rights and establishes a clear seperation between state and religion.

My Humble Opinion,

DK


I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek

shazde you need to read more carefully

by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on

not that my comment was even close to being vague. you missed the entire point. i said that I FEAR A TIANENMEN SQUARE will happen for the protesters and that the regime will grow stronger despite all this the way evil CHINA has. But look at Americans: they love china and its products, even when they kill them and their children! It's a sad world. Hopefully Iranians won't end up like chinese. So before you start wishing ill on me, that's fine, hopefully I'll die in a bus accident and you don't have to punish yourself by reading my comments lol, read something twice!


ramin parsa

Faramarz

by ramin parsa on

This is the most ludicrous, ill-timed and thoughtless blog, perhaps in the entire 2009 calender year on Iranian.com (AND THAT'S SAYING A LOT!!!).

I'm disappointed with you, greatly. Now, it seems you're the one, as opposed to Fred, who sounds like a bona fide IRI agent. Where do I begin...?

Please excuse my language but we went from being partially submerged in "goh to being fully submerged in "eshaal"!  

Please stick to what you know, the past is not your forte. Compared to any other Central Asian country, we were in fact, sitting pretty. But the dumbass/Hippie/Marxist/Mujahed youth back then, instead of thinking about 'HOW FAR' we had come in a short 50 years, kept thinking about this utopia state or that utopia republic, and 'HOW FAR' we had to go to get there! A**holes, all of them (khengs and khaens).

But for God sake, for once, lets think about what we are doing.  Lets say Khamenei and Ahmadinejad are gone.  Do we want a Islamic-Military regime to take over with one of the sepah or basij heads running the country?  

That is PRECISELY what we have today in Iran! Are you sure you're not an imposter posing as FF, because here, in this blog, you sound utterly and completely clueless!

 Do we want an Islamic democracy or a secular democracy?  

As I told you before, there is no such thing as an "Islamic democracy." It's a classic oxymoron. The foundation of any democratic system of governance mandates the SEPARATION OF RELIGION FROM GOVERNMENT, period. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Is there unity of thought in Iran?

Utterly asinine requirement! Was there a "unity of thought" in America, on Novemeber 4, 2008 in the election between Ubamanist and McCain? 

The only thing people are united about is getting rid of the current regime. In my opinion, whats happening is a mistake.

I saved the best for last... How could you sit in the lap of democracy and freedom and utter this preposterous statemtent ("what's happening is a mistake.")? Are you sure you're not IRI, Faramarz? I feel duped all this time! Who are you to say this? Do you live in Iran? There must be a very good reason if people are risking their lives everyday to change this regime. They must be that hard pressed and that hopeless in Iran.

Anything is better than Ahmadinejad! Anything is an improvement to the IRI, which sent 10-year-old children to walk on mines! Any regime is superior to one which rapes virgin girls before it executes them, and then forces their parents to pay for the bullets. Any regime is better than one which has its filthy hand in teenage prostitution, sending Iranian girls to Arab lands as sex toys. Any regime is better than one which has given us massive brain drain, obscene prostitution, corruption and addiction.

Iranian people today are not as CLUELESS as they were back in 1978, when 80% of Tehranis were 1st or 2nd generation dahatis. Thanks to satellites, internet, cellphones, etc., today's rebel is far more savvy and smart than their 1978 dahati counterparts.