Sex and Iranian girl/women's dilemma.


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Faramarz_Fateh
by Faramarz_Fateh
05-Feb-2008
 

Last Sunday, my brother, our cousin and their friend Sahba were at our home for dinner. All these guys are in their mid to late Thirties and single.

None of them is a Goerge Clooney or Brad Pitt double, but all are relatively good looking and successful and two of the 3 have great hair.

My brother started dating Iranian women around 4-5 years ago after he started feeling more Iranian. The other 2 guys have dated Iranian girls exclusively since they "discovered" girls at age 15.

The three of them were discussing how quickly dating and relationships ends up in sex. I have been married for 27 years and my wife was my first and last girlfriend. So, I am very out of touch with the dating scene other than what I hear.

But apparently these days, having sex on the 3rd, 2nd or even the first date is normal. I would have accepted this about American women without any hesitation. But Iranian women, first or second date?! Wow. Good thing I don't have a daughter.

What these three clowns were making fun of was what the girls/women tell them after the sex; "oh, I have never done this before, I don't know what came over me" or the crying, or crying sometimes accompanied by getting dressed and pretending to want to leave; out of shame I guess.

Sahba was saying that he can now even predict with scientific accuracy how long after the sex the remorseful statements and crying etc etc starts, depending on the girl, her age and most times how much alcohol has been involved.

My wife was listening to these stories and statements and naturally defending the women's position. That if a man has sex on the first date, we congratulate him but if a woman does it, we call her a slut.

I agree. There should not be any difference between men and women.

But what I and the 3 "man sluts" discussing this whole issue don't understand is why the women have to bring up the stories about how they had never done this before. Don't think for a moment any of the guys will buy your stories.

In my opinion, if you are going to have sex with someone you just met but you are attracted to, hell, enjoy it. Don't ruin the enjoyment with guilt.

Thats my opinion. What is yours.


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Iranian Girls

by Armine (not verified) on

Ive almost given up on finding a good iranian girl in california. im sticking to the dirty white sluts and eventually ill find a good iranian girl IN iran


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to IranianMan9

by a "virgin"! (not verified) on

These discriminatory laws have been in the books at least since the last regime, however they have just become worse under the IRI. A lot of people are not aware of their depth, their impact, and don't understand the significance of the laws,until it affects them. If you don't know how deeply the Iranian customs and laws are against the women, I suggest you educate yourself, otherwise you can whitewash all you want, and laugh all you can. Remember, democracy and advancement for ALL, will never be realized, until women's rights are realized. Good luck to you. Peace.


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TO: a "virgin"

by IranianMan9 (not verified) on

First of all, you are unfairly and conveniently mixing the current discriminatory laws in Iran with the Iranian culture, making the culture an easier target for you to attack. But despite all the fuss and baseless rantings that some modern Iranian "feminist" are making, Iranians in general do value women just as much (if not more) than men. The fact that the Iranian culture does not encourage promiscuity and random sex like it would have suited some of today's "open-mined" Iranian women, doesn't mean it is "rotten"!


May be you should hang out with some western guys once in a while. I mean, yek mosht hendi, arab, afghani, bangladehsi aghab-moondeh keh melaak nistan, baba!

What a shameful statement to make!!

Mesleh inkeh az farhangeh "Gharb" faghat "bi band-o-barish" baratoon jalebeh! I wish you had also learned some of the values promoted in the West.

And what a shame that your level of respect towards other nations is solely based on the level of promiscuity they allow in their culture.

I advise you to keep hanging out with your "Western" friends and avoid all going near any man who has still a shred of "gheyrat" left in him.


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IranianMan9

by a "virgin"! (not verified) on

The Iranian culture is a rich, beautiful and humanistic culture which also promotes some particular values and social behaviors. Now, if these values do not match your life-style, it doesn't mean that the culture is "rotten"!

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There are many beautiful aspects to the Iranian culture, but no need to generalize there. As a woman I do not see any beauty in descrimination, and prejudice. I don't see any beauty in having to ask the husband's permission to let me travel out of the country. And no beauty in asking his permission to work outside of home. I see downright ugliness when my testimony, and my life's worth is valued half a man's. You said our culture was beautiful, right? Part of the culture is religion, which is extremely prejudiced againgt women. No, I see a lot of ugliness.
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Secondly, the roots of these expectations are not solely cultural. All men, in every culture, hate the idea that their wife has slept with other men before.
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That's not true. May be you should hang out with some western guys once in a while. I mean, yek mosht hendi, arab, afghani, bangladehsi aghab-moondeh keh melaak nistan, baba!

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Thirdly, be honest with yourself; You know that the reason why you won't talk about your past experiences with a guy you are involved in a serious relationship with , is that you know you might lose him over this.

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Like I said, I have no problems telling him about it, if he insists to know. It is just not a very romantic topic, like I don't want to know the details of his past, either. Perhaps the type of people that I hang out with, are similar to myself. Most important to me is a man who values fidelity, and a blood test before ANY unprotected sex.


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to mychoice

by a "virgin"! (not verified) on

Obviously, you will be only deceiving yourself if you believe that the Iranian sexual behavior has not changed in the past 3o years. I'm not sure if any reasonable person can deny that our culture is changing, and it directly related to the fact that the Iranian population is a young one, and the young are very dynamic.

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With the flood of cultural values from the west (satellite, internet), not only do we see outwardly change in the young, such as earings and long hair in men and tattoos in general, but there is a change in sexual behavior as well. Given the dynamic nature of culture, the young age of the Iranian population, and their propensity for change, this will happen. However, there will always be opposing forces from the status quo, but change IS inevitable.

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As long as the playing field is not level, women will resort to deceptive practices if necessary. ( dookhto-odooz, fake marriages, and many others) Sex is an integral part of being a human, and punishing those who engage in it, is not fair. And a "man", whose manhood depends on a piece of tissue, is not a real man.


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Virginity is important in

by Asian Culture (not verified) on

Virginity is important in Japanese and Korean culture as well because their cultures are based on shame as well. Wife-beating is a norm in Japanese culture as well and they are not muslim..But that does not make it right because it's part of the norm of the culture.


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Virginity VS. Religion

by observer2 (not verified) on

Judaism

Virginity first appears in the Jewish scriptures in Genesis, where Eliezer is seeking a wife for his master's son. He meets Rebekah, and the narrative tells us, "the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her" (Genesis 24:16). Virginity is a recurring theme in the Bible — the nation is frequently personified as the virgin daughter of Israel in the prophetic poetry. It is a wistful phrase, since Genesis also says that Israel's (Jacob's) only daughter Dinah was, in fact, raped as she entered the promised land. The Torah also contains laws governing betrothal, marriage and divorce, with particular provisions regarding virginity in Deuteronomy .

Sex in Judaism is not seen as dirty or undesirable — in fact, sex within marriage is considered a mitzvah, or desirable virtue. Jewish law contains rules related to and protecting female virgins and dealing with consensual and non-consensual pre-marital sex. The thrust of Jewish law's guidance on sex is effectively that it should not be rejected, but should be lived as a wholesome part of life.

Although there is a provision in Judaism for sex outside of marriage, the idea of a pilegesh, is it very seldom used, partially because of the emphasis placed on marriage and other social pressures, and partially because some prominent Rabbis have been opposed to it, for example Maimonides.

While a child born of certain forbidden relationships, such as adultery or incest, is considered a mamzer, approximately translated as illegitimate, who can only marry another mamzer, a child born out of wedlock is not considered a mamzer unless also adulterous or incestuous.

................................
Christianity

Like Judaism, from which it was derived, the New Testament views sex within marriage positively, in fact, it is commanded in 1 Corinthians 7. Just as this chapter is against marriage without sex, so it is against sex without marriage. Self control is valued, however it is considered unrealistic for most. Paul, in fact, only echos Jesus in that view. Matthew 19:1-12 reports Jesus forbidding divorce, and his disciples complaining that made marriage too hard (for men). Jesus' response is to say not marrying is even harder, but good for those who can do without.

Some have theorized that the New Testament was not against sex before marriage. The discussion turns on two Greek words — moicheia (μοιχεία, adultery) and porneia (el:πορνεία, fornication see also pornography). The first word is restricted to contexts involving sexual betrayal of a spouse, however the second word is a generic term for illegitimate sexual activity. As such it is not specific about which particular behaviours are considered illegitimate. Elsewhere in 1 Corinthians , incest, homosexual intercourse and prostitution are all explicitly forbidden by name. The theory suggests it is these, and only these behaviours that are intended by Paul's prohibition in chapter seven. Two of the strongest arguments against this theory are: 1. Paul speaks as though porneia is widespread and virtually inevitable, which is unlikely of incest, homosexuality and prostitution, but plausible of pre-marital sex; and 2. the Old Testament especially, but also the New outside Corinthians, speaks against pre-marital sex; without evidence Paul permitted pre-marital sex, it is safer to assume he did not.

As in Judaism, the interpretation of Genesis is it that describes sex as a gift from God to be celebrated within the context of marriage. The New Testament also speaks of the Christian's body as a holy temple that the Spirit of God comes to dwell in. (1 Corinthians 3:16) Purity in general is deeply threaded throughout the entire Bible.

Christians have officially accepted the New Testament claim that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a virgin at the time Jesus was conceived, based on the accounts in the gospels of Matthew and Luke. The Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox denominations, additionally hold to the dogma of the perpetual virginity of Mary. However, Protestants cite evidence against this including Mark 6:3: "Isn't this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And aren't His sisters here with us?". Some Christians may refer to her as the Virgin Mary or the Blessed Virgin Mary.

.......................
Islam

Islam provides a decree that sexual activity must occur only between married individuals. However, a male master need not be married to his wife, for them to have lawful sexual relations. This is referred to in the Qur'an as ma malakat aymanukum or "what your right hands possess".[10] The husband and wife must always keep in mind the needs, both sexual and emotional, of each other.

Qur'an 17:32 says "And come not near to the unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is a Fâhishah [i.e. anything that transgresses its limits (a great sin)], and an evil way (that leads one to Hell unless Allâh forgives him)." Unlawful sexual intercourse zina (الزنى) refers both to adultery and premarital sex.


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(Virginity) In culture

by observer2 (not verified) on

Female virginity is closely interwoven with personal or even family honor in many cultures, especially those known as shame societies. In such cultures the loss of virginity before marriage is a matter of deep shame. For example, among the Bantu of South Africa, virginity testing or even the suturing of the labia majora (called infibulation) has been commonplace. This would typically involve personal inspection by a female elder.[citation needed] Traditionally, Kenuzi girls (of the Sudan) are married before puberty (Godard, 1867), by adult men who inspect them manually for virginity (Kenedy, 1970). Female circumcision is later performed at puberty to ensure chastity (Barclay, 1964).

In Western marriage ceremonies, brides traditionally wear veils and white wedding dresses, which are inaccurately believed by many people to be symbols of virginity. In fact, wearing white is a comparatively recent custom among western brides, who previously wore whatever colors they wished or simply their "best dress." Wearing white became a matter first of trendy fashion and then of custom and tradition only over the course of the 19th century.

History evidences laws and customs that required a man who seduced or raped a virgin to take responsibility for the consequences of his offense by marrying the girl or by paying compensation to her father on her behalf.


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Come and Get It Gentlemen!

by Observer (not verified) on

«عمل ترمیم بکارت را کسی انجام می دهد که معتقد بوده
روابط آزاد مناسب است و بکارت هم اهمیتی ندارد. ولی وقتی به مرحله ازدواج رسیده اتفاقا یادش افتاده که نه خیلی هم مهم است و همچین خبرهایی نیست.»

یک جامعه شناس با بیان این موضوع می گوید: «پس چون می خواهد شوهر مناسبی پیدا کند حاضر است به ارزش هایی تن دهد که بر بکارت به عنوان یک الزام انگشت می گذارد. یادش می رود که خودش کسی بوده که به آزادی انتخاب، عقیده داشته است.»

«از زاویه دید این دختر هم نگاه کنیم، تا حدی می شود عملش را فهمید. احساس می کند که در این جامعه هیچ پناهگاهی ندارد و از همه رانده شده است. حالا می خواهد یک پناهگاهی، زندگی امنی، آرامش خاطری برای خودش داشته باشد.»

این جامعه شناس و استاد دانشگاه ادامه می دهد: «در واقع این دختر هم می داند و فهمیده که حتی با یک شوهر ظاهرا روشنفکر هم ازدواج کند اگر بفهمد او بکارت ندارد، بعد از ازدواج زمینه خیلی خوبی برای انواع سرکوفت ها فراهم می شود. مثلا بعد از اینکه شیرینی های اول زندگی بگذرد، شوهر بر می گردد و می گوید تو "دست دوم" بودی، تو همان کسی هستی که اینطور و آنطور و همه زندگی اش را زهر می کند. چون یک چیزی در جامعه ما جا افتاده که تکان دادنش به این راحتی ها نیست.»

این جامعه شناس با عنوان کردن اینکه «نداشتن بکارت یک انتخاب است» می گوید: «ولی انتخابی که توام با خیلی از دشواری ها است.» و اضافه می کند: «از یک دختر چقدر می توانیم انتظار داشته باشیم؟ دختری که در عین حال که ایده آل ها و ارزش هایش عوض شده ولی خودش را تنها می بیند در برابر دنیایی از فشارهای هنجاری که تهدیدش می کند. ممکن است پای حرف آن دختر بنشینیم به او حق ندهیم و بگوییم که خودت بودی انتخاب کردی، حالا هم بکش. ولی این دختر تک و تنها است و هیچ حمایتی ندارد. از یک طرف طرز تفکر خودش را درست می داند و از طرف دیگر توان مقابله با فشارها را ندارد.»

این جامعه شناس تصریح می کند: «انتظار زیادی است که از این ها بخواهیم که "همگی پیشرو باشید و ارزش های فعلی را زیر و رو و ارزش های جدید را بارور کنید." آدم ها قابلیت هایشان متفاوت است. یکی بیشتر می تواند یکی کمتر، یکی از لحاظ مالی تامین است و می تواند محدوده اوقات فراغت و حلقه دوستان خود را طوری تنظیم کند که در برابر فشارها مقاوم باشد. یکی نمی تواند. می خواهم بگویم قضیه چند بعدی است.»

او عقیده دارد که «فرهنگ سنتی اساسش بر نابرابری است و با پیش فرض هایی هم این نابرابری را حفظ می کند.»

«مثلا می گویند شهوت در پسر بیشتر است و ... به این ترتیب، توجیه می کنند که چرا پسرها دستشان برای تجربه جنسی پیش از ازدواج باز است ولی دخترها به هیچ وجه نباید تجربه کنند و باید آفتاب و مهتاب ندیده باشند. اولین تجربه جنسی شان هم باید در خانه شوهر باشد.»

این جامعه شناس نتیجه می گیرد: «پس اشکال کار از این دختر نیست که عدم صداقت پیشه می کند، از آن مردی هست که این ارزش های سلطه طلبانه خودش را تحمیل می کند به یک دختری که قرار است همه سرنوشتش را به دست او بسپارد؛ و از جامعه ای است که از این مردان و انتظارهای نابجای آنها حمایت می کند تا به رغم اینکه خودشان امکان کسب تجربه جنسی داشته اند، این حق را به صورت برابر برای همسر آینده شان قایل نباشند.»

ترمیم چه چیزی؟

«کمترین سنی که تا بحال برای ترمیم به من مراجعه کرده، دختر ۱۶ ساله ای بوده است از جنوب شهر تهران که به علت تجاوز در جاده ساوه بکارتش را از دست داده بود و خانواده اش قبل از اینکه او را که کاملا در شوک بود برای مشاوره روانی ببرند، آورده بودند پیش من تا بکارتش را ترمیم کنم.»

شهره، کارشناس ارشد مامایی که در مطب خود در شمال تهران ترمیم بکارت انجام می دهد، متقاضیان خود را از لحاظ سنی از این دختر ۱۶ ساله تا دو زن ۴۷ و ۴۸ ساله معرفی می کند: «این خانم ها تا به این سن ازدواج نکرده بودند و حالا یک بار رابطه جنسی برقرار کرده و بکارتشان را از دست داده بودند، آمده بودند می خواستند سریع ترمیم کنند. با اینکه حتی احتمال ازدواج هم نمی دادند اما می خواستند حتما از نظر جسمی باکره به نظر بیایند.»

او همچنین مراجعان ترمیم بکارت را از یک طیف خاص نمی شمرد و می گوید که در میان آنها به جز وضع مادی شان که از همه نوعی هست، از نظر عقیدتی هم تفاوت هایی وجود دارد: «از دختران با مانتو و روسری هستند تا آنهایی که چادر و مقنعه به سر دارند.»

شهره می گوید که ترمیم بکارت را از زمان گذراندن طرح رشته مامایی اش در بومهن آغاز کرده است: «متوجه شده بودم که مراجعانم در آنجا نه به طور مستقیم که به طور غیر مستقیم می خواهند بدانند که من ترمیم بکارت انجام می دهم یا نه، تا اینکه دختری دبیرستانی که می گفت بر اثر یک اتفاق بکارتش را از دست داده پیش من آمد و خیلی نگران بود که در آینده مشکلی برای ازدواجش پیش بیاید و من برای اولین بار عمل ترمیم را روی او انجام دادم.»

او درباره چگونگی ترمیم بکارت توضیح می دهد: «مساله اصلی ترمیم بکارت بالا رفتن اعتماد به نفس دخترها است وگرنه هیچ اتفاق خاصی نمی افتد. فقط کمی دهانه واژن را تنگ می کنیم تا نزدیکی به آسانی صورت نگیرد» و ادامه می دهد: «اگر نزدیکی یک یا دو بار صورت گرفته باشد، نیازی به کار کردن داخل واژن نیست و فقط کافی است ورودی را تنگ کنیم که بیشتر از نیم ساعت طول نمی کشد، اما اگر رابطه بیشتر از یک یا دو بار بوده باشد، مجبوریم در داخل واژن هم کار کنیم که این در حدود ۴۵ دقیقه تا یک ساعت طول می کشد.»

این کارشناس ارشد مامایی می گوید که هیچ آموزشی در زمینه عمل جراحی بکارت ارائه نمی شود و می گوید که خودش هم با جستجو در سایت های پزشکی غیر ایرانی سعی می کند اطلاعاتش را در این زمینه کامل کند: «مثلا متوجه شده ام که در آلمان هم این عمل احتمالا بیشتر برای مهاجران کرد و ترک انجام می گیرد. فقط روش آنجا با ما متفاوت است. آنها یک هفته پیش از عروسی کپسولی حاوی ماده رنگی قرمز را در واژن عروس جاسازی می کنند. وقتی که نزدیکی صورت می گیرد این کپسول باز می شود و ماده رنگی قرمز بیرون می ریزد و داماد فکر می کند که خون آمده است.»

او ادامه می دهد: «چنین تصوری وجود دارد که در نزدیکی با دختر باکره باید حتما خونریزی ایجاد شود. این تصور در ایران هم وجود دارد در صورتی که ۶۰ درصد زنان آسیایی پرده بکارت حلقوی دارند.»

شهره که اعتقاد دارد «هر کاری که غیر قانونی انجام شود، آدم های بدون صلاحیت هم واردش می شوند»، این موضوع را یکی از علل تفاوت هزینه این عمل در مراکز مختلف می داند: «من خودم ۴۰۰ تا ۶۰۰ هزار تومان می گیرم، ولی دیده ام که کسی با ۷۰ هزار تومان هم انجام می دهد. اما چه کسی؟ کسی که حتی دیپلم هم ندارد. این آدم سقط جنین هم انجام می دهد و تا به حال ندیده ام که مراجعانش بمیرند ولی ترمیم بکارت را چگونه انجام می دهد، نمی دانم. فقط یک بار یکی از مراجعانش را معاینه کردم و واقعا از کاری که کرده بود، وحشت کردم. در حقیقت دو تا کوک بزرگ زده و دوخته بود.»

این ماما که از بیهوشی موضعی برای ترمیم بکارت استفاده می کند، بجز خون ریزی حین عمل، خون ریزی پس از عمل را در حد لکه بینی توصیف می کند و مقدار کمی استراحت را هم کافی می داند. او می گوید: «اما بیمار باید یک ماه بعد دوباره برای معاینه مراجعه کند.»

شهره می گوید این عمل، چون «جزو کارهای روزمره کلینیک ها محسوب نمی شود»، در مطب انجام می گیرد، اما این جراحی را، هرچند که مخفیانه انجام می شود، غیرقانونی نمی داند: «ما همان کاری را انجام می دهیم که مراجعانمان از ما می خواهند. قانون هم که ترجیح می دهد با سکوت و پرده پوشی با قضیه رو به رو شود، بنابراین کار ما نه غیر اخلاقی و نه غیر قانونی است.»

اگر زوج نداند...

زهره ارزنی، وکیل دادگستری که می گوید هیچ جایی در قانون ما گفته نشده که دختر باید باکره باشد، توضیح می دهد: «رابطه جنسی چیزی است که تا آنجایی که شارع توانسته تلاش کرده که مکتوم بماند. کسی هم وظیفه ای ندارد از کسی در این باره سوال کند با اینکه متاسفانه الان در جامعه ما کاری می کنند که همه به زنا کردن اعتراف کنند.»

او در ادامه تعریف می کند: «موردی داشتم که زوجه بعد از ۱۰ روز که از عقد دایم گذشته بود، می گفت فقط طلاق می خواهد. تعجب کردم که در عرض ۱۰ روز چه چیزی می تواند بفهمد که بخواهد جدا شود. وقتی پرسیدم، گقت که من قبل از عروسی هم می دانستم این زندگی ارزشی ندارد ولی اصلا عروسی کردن من فرمالیته بود. چون قبل از عروسی بین ما نزدیکی اتفاق افتاده بود، صبر کردم ازدواج کنیم و بعد جدا شوم تا باکره نبودنم توجیه داشته باشد.»

ارزنی تصریح می کند: «این عرف جامعه ما است که هنوز بکارت را اینقدر مهم می داند، در صورتی که در قانون ما آنقدر به این مساله پرداخته نشده است.»

به گفته زهره ارزنی ترمیم بکارت صرفا در صورتی که همسر آینده دختر، از موضوع بی اطلاع باشد، در صورت بر ملا شدن می تواند تبعات قانونی به همراه داشته باشد.

وی به ماده ۱۱۲۸ در قانون مدنی ایران در قسمت «خیارهای فسخ نکاح» اشاره می کند که در آن آورده شده است:« هر گاه در یکی از طرفین صفت خاصی شرط شده و بعد از عقد معلوم شود که طرف مذکور فاقد آن بوده برای طرف مقابل حق فسخ خواهد بود. خواه شرط مذکور در عقد تصریح شده یا عقد متباینا (یعنی بر اساس عرف ) بر آن واقع شده باشد.»

ارزنی اضافه می کند:«در نظر مشورتی این ماده آمده است که برای مثال اگر زوج هنگام ازدواج شرط بکارت نموده باشد، اگر بعد از ازدواج مشخص شود که با زوجه جماع شده، هر چند پرده بکارت سالم و موجود از نوع حلقوی باشد باز زوج دارای حق فسخ خواهد بود.»

این وکیل دادگستری توضیح می دهد: «در حقیقت اینجا نبود بکارت را صرفا در صورت عدم اطلاع پیشین زوج ، یکی از موارد حق فسخ می دانند و چون نگاه عامه جامعه ما این است که دختری که ازدواج نکرده باکره است، حتی اگر شرط بکارت به صراحت انجام نشود و بعد از ازدواج مشخص شود که باکره نیست مرد می تواند بر همین اساس فسخ ازدواج را بخواهد.»

زهره ارزنی همچنین به نظر اداره حقوقی که در سال ۱۳۷۶ صادر شده و در آن آمده که منظور از بکارت صرفا داشتن پرده بکارت نیست بلکه «در درجه اول همان نزدیکی است» اشاره می کند و می گوید: «البته دادگاه ها مجبور نیستند از نظریه اداره حقوقی پیروی کنند. می توانند پیروی نکنند و بگویند ترمیم بکارتی انجام شده و دختر را در حکم باکره بگیرند و فسخ نکاح را انجام ندهند. اما معمولا به این نظر حقوقی توجه می کنند.»

گزارشی از جراحی ترمیم بکارت در ایران
http://www.zigzagmag.com/article/default.aspx/352


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To: a "virgin"

by IranianMan9 (not verified) on

First, it amazes me how you are willing to go as far as calling your own culture a "rotten, male-chauvinistic" one, just because it doesn't encourage sex before marriage!

The Iranian culture is a rich, beautiful and humanistic culture which also promotes some particular values and social behaviors. Now, if these values do not match your life-style, it doesn't mean that the culture is "rotten"!

Secondly, the roots of these expectations are not solely cultural. All men, in every culture, hate the idea that their wife has slept with other men before. But in some societies they have to suppress these feelings pr avoid talking about them in public, otherwise they will be called "rotten" "chauvinist" "backwards"....etc

Thirdly, be honest with yourself; You know that the reason why you won't talk about your past experiences with a guy you are involved in a serious relationship with , is that you know you might lose him over this.

But why do you think is that? Why even the most open-minded sophisticated man might lose interest in you if he learns about you past sexual experiences?!
Is everyone rotten?!! Or is there a more fundamental problem with today's girls behaviors?


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Rotten superficial promiscuous western-wanna-be culture

by mychoice (not verified) on

Don't get your hopes up. Things are not changing at all to accommodate your promiscuity. Iranian men are still very much attached to their values (and rightly so) and it won't change any time soon. You can boast all you want about your (supposedly) wild sexuality under an anonymous name here but people like you are still not accepted by the great majority of Iranians in real life.

The truth is that girls like you are a small minority within Iranians but are just louder than the rest. That's why it looks like they've taken over. But most Iranians are still not prepared to accept that rotten superficial promiscuous western-wanna be culture of yours.

"Active" girls can act as wild as they want, but when it's time to get married they either have to resort to degrading practices such as "dookht-o-dooz", marry a 48 year old divorced man, or stay single forever. Now imitate your American friends all you want.


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rotten, male-chauvinistic culture

by a "virgin"! (not verified) on

Those expectations you talk about, have roots in backward, male-chauvinistic societies such as Iran. Also, I believe the self-fulfilling prophecy of what men expect, and it's effects on women's behvior. Having said that, by no means to be miscontrued as women wanting it this way, i.e. wanting to be virgins, rather it is the weight of old, rotten customs imposed on women, which thankfully is gradually changing in the Iranian society.
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As far as sharing old memories (general, sexual, emotional, or other aspects) with the guy, hey, it is not the most romantic thing to talk about, but if he wants know.... then, what can I say?


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Is called, "heeleh-gari"

by I am so shy! (not verified) on

Iranian girls are super good at heeleh gari when it comes to their sexuality and fragility--oh, elaahi maadar!

Iranian men, on the hand, are good at heeleh gari with superior skills in telling lies and BS to import the 18 year old HOOOLO from Iran


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TO: a "virgin"

by IranianMan9 (not verified) on

In general men and women do not have the exact same expectations from each other in everything. For women it might not be as important whether or not their husband has slept with other women before marriage, but for the great majority of men, it IS a very important issue.

So, if a woman wants the man she will marry to be a virgin, it is definitely her right. And if the majority of women also wanted that, it is would only natural for men to respect that. But the fact is that women don't care, but men do.

As for your personal sexual experiences with men, I am not interested in them. However I am pretty sure you will never talk about and even lie about these "experiences" with the guy you would wanna marry. Right?


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goods are important

by a "virgin"! (not verified) on

There is nothing wrong with being a "virgin" prior to marriage, as long as, this is pledged by BOTH parties, and not a discriminatory act against women to express their sexuality. As far as young men not wanting to get married, it is their prerogative, however when they get old farts, they'll regret not getting married when they were younger.

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As far as checking out a guys goods, yes, it is important for me. I have been with guys with inadequacies, it is just not good.


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TO: a "virgin"

by IranianMan9 (not verified) on

Well, no one would want to marry a girl who is an expert on men's different penis "sizes"!

No wonder why young Iranian men won't get married nowadays.


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poor performers or tiny duduls

by a "virgin"! (not verified) on

I wonder when a guy is so focused about a woman's virginity, perhaps, is a poor performer in bed , or suffers from tiny dudul-syndrome? I mean, why would any man care so much??? Get real! Another thing, even a girl from the most conservative families, "shahrestani", restricted, or whatever can deceive men, if men they deal with are asking for it. So virginity, shmginity, you'll be fooled, if you're asking for it!


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A woman who prides herself

by hh (not verified) on

A woman who prides herself on being a virgin obviously has nothing else to offer and sees herself only as a sexual object with a very low self-esteem. Women like that are forever prisoners of their own mind and of their societal norms and will end up bitter, unfulfilled, cheated on, and never having experienced any unconditional love and respect from a man. A man who respects a woman for her virginity, cannot truly say that he "loves" a woman in any meaningful way.


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Don't take us for fools

by mychoice (not verified) on

To Woman in LA,

I have no contempt for you. But I don't like your condescending tone. You seem to believe (or want to make others believe) that there are absolutely no more virgins left in Iran and that those who claim to be so are just "sewn-up" liars. This is an insult to all those girls who genuinely try to preserve themselves for marriage. By saying what you say, not only you discredit the genuine pledge they took, but make them appear as hypocrites. I think what you do is simply unfair and unethical.

And my problem is not with the woman's fidelity after marriage. My problem is with her past. I simply don't like the idea of another man having had the same level of intimacy with my wife as I do. This is how I feel and I'm not ashamed to say it.

Many man are just incapable of building a strong relationship with a woman they think has been with other men. I'm one of them and BELIEVE ME, I'm not alone. There is a reason why many Iranian men are reluctant to marry these days or simply choose not to. And there is also a reason why many girls who've almost reached 30 are still single.

If you want to deny the cause of this, BE MY GUEST too. But if you think of it more profoundly you'll see that the underlying reason (even if it's not admitted by men), is very often the girl's past.

And for you "Virgin":

Let me tell you that my idea of virginity is not limited the presence or absence of hymen. And I feel sorry for any pathetic girl who resorts to such sleazy practices as "dookh-o-dooz" or does anything else short of intercourse to hide her activities. But you seem to endorse it. Good for you.

They might fool men with it and "trick" them into marriage, but they'll also have to live the rest of their married lives in the constant fear that their husband will eventually find out. (I can't believe that you so shamelessly boast about the girls ability to deceive!).

And by the way, this easy deception you so proudly boast about, is another reason why young men don't marry anymore.

But don't worry too much. We can distinguish between a virgin and a phony.


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I was a virgin when I got

by Anonymous3434654 (not verified) on

I was a virgin when I got married at 23. It was my choice not because I thought sleeping with one man made me promisucous but because I was too busy studying and no one was around.
I think it is so dump to equate a sexually active woman with a slut. Even if she has sex on the first ddate.
This blog is about a bunch of guys who seem to gravitate toward a specific type of Iranian women.
Many Iranian women, virgin or not, make fantastic wives, lovers, friends and companions.
Many virgin women make shitty wives, horrible mothers or cheat.

No one's popularity or integrity is based on virginity. It's based on humour, character, education, world view, interests etc.
Many people have sex before marriage and many don't. They are all fantastic people. Only losers who have no self confidence are people you want to stay away from, and that can be male or female, virgin or not.

If I were a man, I wouldn't go near a woman in her 30s who was still a virgin. That's not normal. Your sex life will be crappy. A normal appetite is essential to a healthy life.


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Be My Guest!

by Woman in LA (not verified) on

Unlike you, I have no contempt for you. Be my guest, treat yourself to as many phony and sewn-up "virgins" as you'd like; you know, in Iran you can get yourself upto four at a time! Until you learn and understand that the essence of a woman's fidelity to you is not in her having never been touched before, but in the kind of man and husband you will be to her. Judging by your logic and contempt, I would say you need all the luck you can get!

Live in America and dream about 1950's Iran--you will neither enjoy your life as an American, nor will you ever be able to get over the disappointment you will experience about today's Iran.


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looking for a virgin?! hahahha!

by a "virgin"! (not verified) on

Stop kidding yourselves, will ya?! You fools! Seriously, you guys are just kidding yourselves. First of all, have you ever heard of "dookht-o-dooz"? And second, there are many ways to be intimate with a man, short of the actual intercourse! hahahaha! I cannot believe this! seriously funny! I am a virgin!


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Woman in LA. give us a break!

by mychoice (not verified) on

This is what "active" girls like you always say. You desperately try to question the integrity of those virgin girls to compensate your own unpopularity.

You pathetically want to find yourselves accomplices by generalizing "sexual promiscuity" to make men believe that they should content themselves with people like you since that's the best they'll ever get. I've heard this from tens of desperate "active" girls close to their thirties who have a pretty hard time finding a husband.

Give us a break.

The fact is that there are still plenty of girls who have been wise enough to abstain and still believe in higher values than just sleeping around or "socializing" as you call it.


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Dream On, Gentlemen!

by Woman In LA (not verified) on

I have a lot of respect for self-control which might manifest in abstinence from sex, among other things. It does build character to say the least, and it offers our Iranian gentlemen with a chance to have their virgin brides as they so eloquently demand.

This can only work if men abstain, too. Unless I'm really mistaken, men who have sex without paying for it, invariably have that sex with women who believe they are "socializing," or "dating" them. So, men want to be able to socialize and date and have sex with some other women while their future wives are safely abstaining, saving themselves for them! That makes things a little complicated, gentlemen!

To those who think they can go to Iran to bring themselves virgin brides, I would like to wish good-luck! Insist on something ludicrous and get exactly that! Many unmarried Iranian women are quite active sexually (and the catch is that sitting in U S of A, you wouldn't know which ones are and which ones aren't!), and for the gullible who insist on their brides' virginity, there is always surgical procedures to boot! This whole scenario is so pathetic, I can't stop laughing at it!

Please get real. Please don't insist on a lie. You won't be able to live with it, I assure you.

Insist on decency, fairness, trust, respect, and most importantly love from women. Don't insist on being told a lie. Sex is not evil. Ignorance is.


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TO: hh

by IranianMan9 (not verified) on

The concern of men is not the "hymen" as a physiological tissue, but the whole idea of the girl they want to marry having been sexually active with other men. Men simply do not like that at all, and no matter how much the society tries to suppress this feeling and put labels on men who express it, it won't change the feeling itself. It will only manifest itself in other ways; either by young men simply boycotting marriage (as it is happening right now in a great number of Iranian men) or becoming over-controlling, suspicious, distant...if they do marry a non-virgin. This is just how men feel, and women should respect that.

And a girl who refrains from having sexual relations with other men before marriage is not "putting a price on her hymen"!! Let's not reduce everything its materialistic aspect. She is rather showing that she holds onto her values, does not take sexual relations lightly and respects the man she wants to marry.

I am not judging at all the girls who have been sexually active and I am not saying that they don't respect their values or whatever. Just pointing out to the fact that virginity is not only about the hymen.


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One can argue that it's

by hh (not verified) on

One can argue that it's immoral to define women's identity based on the tissue between their legs. Equating untouched hymn with morality and worth of women (a human being) is highly immoral and inhumane in my opinion.

And why is it that when Iranian parents auction oftheir daughter's virginity to the highest bidder (wealthy suitor) that is not immoral?

Intelligent women/girls, whether Westerners or Iranian, know better and have more self-respect for themselves and their bodies to allow a man they barely have met to enjoy their body. And you don't have to be religious to follow this principle, you just have to love yourself and a have a brain to reach such a conclusion. Because men will use you, if you let them. If you don't want to be used, don't have sex so quickly because you will pay for it dearly later in life.


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We are free to choose too...

by mychoice (not verified) on

Personally, I'll marry a girl who hasn't been touched. I don't judge girls who choose to have sex with anyone they want before marriage, but I also reserve myself the right to set my own standards. You want freedom? This is freedom too!

So to all you "intellectual" people who think freedom has only one meaning and judge people who choose to marry "imported wives" (as Iranianmother said in a condescending tone), let me say that we are free too to have our own criteria and not give in to this new trend of promiscuity that is taking over Iranian women.

Personally, I can't stand the idea that another man has slept with my wife. I know you'll jump to imitate Westerners and call it "insecurity" or "backwardness", but it's a feeling that existsnonetheless inside every men and I don't see the need to "do away" with it. I don't feel the need to suppress my feeling to please people like you and be unhappy for the rest of my life with the thought that another man has fucked my wife. I don't want to be reminded that someone else has had the same intimate privileges as I, with the mother of my kids. Instead of having to deal with this thought for the rest of my married life, I prefer to be wise and simply marry a virgin.

And to those "I'm free to have sex with anyone I want" girls, please don't try to ridicule those "imported wives" or question their virginity to mask your own unpopularity among men.

I am tired of girls playing the victims all the time. You want to go sleep around, fine. Do it. You're free to do whatever you want. But I'm sick of being labeled as a "backward Iranian man" by people like "Iranianmother" because I choose to live a tranquil life with someone who will not remind me of another man every time I sleep with her.

Boast all you want about your "freedom of promiscuity" but the truth is that men (whether they admit it or not) all despise a girl who's been around. They might act as if they don't to look "intellectual" or out of desperation, but deep down every man there is this strong sense of resentment and disgust toward a wife who's had an "ex-boyfriend".


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The problem is due to 2 things

by A concerned Iranian (not verified) on

I can't believe I am writing on here, especially on this subject. But due to amazement at what I have read (the original post as well as the responses) I felt obliged to say my piece.

First of all, common place nature of sex outside institution of marriage in today's society is due to lack of morality. This is true of all nationalities and followers of most religions.

For example, the religion of Islam prohibits alcohol, drugs such as marijuana and opium as well as sex outside of marriage. How many Muslims do you know who seriously practice these teachings? At best, many Muslims refrain from eating pork; because in my opinion its the easiest thing to follow.

Sex is a biological function. Normal people, after age 15 or so need to have sex once in a while.
Unfortunately, today's society is such that young men and women can not get married until they are way past the age of puberty. We tell our young to study until age of 24 or 25, then work for a few years to save for a car, a home and then get married.

This is not only unfair, its unnatural. Parents need to encourage and support their children to get married as soon as they can so that they can lead a normal life.

When men and women have to wait until they have a advance degree and a home to be married, the problems we see today happen.

The life style that many young people, whether Iranian, American, Japanese, Brazilian etc are leading, that is, sex outside marriage and multiple intimacy partners is not only immoral, its unnatural.

There is no need to judge Iranian men or women for what they are doing because remember, who are we to judge.


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salute to iranianMother

by horny kachal (not verified) on

wada mom. I counted and am I third clown? did you judge me because I'm kachal? lol

I like what you said "...choices two consenting adults make...".
It has to do with values and how you see yourself within the world. If you live in the west then you have no choice to follow the crowd, you know this " if you can't beat them then join them" did I say it right?
But if you live in middle east "iran aziz" then you should better love the culture and respect it.

Thank you dear ironiMom.


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The unity of Iranians is still "the joke"

by ali (not verified) on

I have been away from Iranian pages for a while. Today I spent about an hour reading different comments and articles and I am so sad to see this exists again and again.
We always wondering what happened to our country, to our Iranian people and so many things are wrong at so many levels. Why everything is so much worse and we have been and still going down hill with a speed of a bullet in our country. The problem? our lack of unity.
We always are ready to attack someone with whom we don't agree with. He said some stuff about Iranian girls' sex routines as of late and everyone is jumping on his neck to kill him. What happened to freedom of expressions. When are we going to learn (even after living years and years in the west) that just because we don't agree with someone that doesn't mean that we have to attack them like crazy and call them names.
Dear people and Mr. Faramarz; when are we going to learn that there are all kind of people in every culture and society.
Just because he said some Iranian girls have some new routines after one night stands that doesn't mean every Iranian is a sl**t. There are also many American girls who are also 10 times old fashioned than any Middle Eastern or Iranian females, but we never admit to that would we?
People don't just preach, please practice the democracy and act like civilized human being or even a civilized Iranian.