Can it Be True?

by Feshangi

Many people, specially those who live outside the USA, believe that US presidents are selected and not elected. Can this be true? Can it mean that what we are seeing in the US political arena is just a charade? Does it mean that the next president of the United States has already been "elected?"


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zanincanadai, what I meant

by Mehdi on

zanincanadai, what I meant was referring to some people here that think that problems exist only in Iran. Or, they think that US or the West is perfect. I am just saying, they don't like it when someone brings up the facts that shows in the US the corruption is not much better than Iran, if at all. So they shut up.

As for the solution(s), I am a fan of "baby steps." But taking baby steps as a strategy requires that one to have a clear vision of the future and the ideal state. It also then require a belief and a sort of faith that good will in fact be triumphant in the end, despite temporary halts.

I think that to find a way to that ideal state, we cannot rely only on politics. We'd have to consider all knowledge - religion, philosophy, sociology, math, physics, etc. Politics is a sort of limited "science" - if you can call it that.

For Iran specifically, I recommend what NIAC is doing - educating Iranian-Americans about the civic processes as well as working on re-establishing Iran-US relations. I think strategically, that's the best approach.

I think people must come up in education to a point where it is not easy to fool them. And that takes work. Otherwise any system can be manipulated if the people are not very sharp.


Mehdi I don't really get

by n.zanincanadai on

Mehdi I don't really get your comment. I just don't think the democratic ideal is a good one because it leaves too much unanswered. And I don't think we've ever had a true democracy any where. Man be IRI chi kar daram?

Times have changed and so should we! What we need is a system that gives power to the people. That can only be done through money. There has to be major tax reform. Instead of taxing goods and services we need to tax natural resources and pollution and anything else that's truely meaningful to us. If companies want to emit carbon monoxide, they should be taxed on that. If we want to use electricity beyond what is acceptable, we should be taxed on that. Income taxes need reform too. Through money, people can control what big business does. Some scandinavian countires have already started tax reforms. This is very complicated and I can't get into it here. Then the voting system has to change. And financial institutions and so on.

Point is, right now, democracy is based on my vote. I have 3 choices from 2 parties. Which ever one manages to convince me, is who I will vote for. CONVINCE is a key word. So they can lie. And they do. SO it's a fault.


zanincanadai, you shut everybody out!

by Mehdi on

I think your arguments leaves everyone here speechless.

Now back to our usual programming:

IRI bad; IRI evil; rivers of blood flowing in Iran; human rights violation only exist in Iran; religious monopoly only in Iran (no, don't look at Israel, that's different); economical collapse only in Iran (everywhere else people don't know what to do with their excess money!); no freedom only in Iran; medical conditions bad (only in Iran)...


Conclusion: Let's bomb Iran!

a bit sickening


Anonymously You just

by n.zanincanadai on


You just described many of the flaws of democracy because even if the basis of such a system is people's voting power, the mathematics of it doesn't  take into account the process by which a candidate is presented and selected. Any system that is based on people choosing a candidate who can cheat and lie in order to get elected, is very deficient. Especially if you take the American model. They are basically a one party state.


It all depends on how one defines pre-selected!

by Anonymous-2 (not verified) on

There is a process of elimination which by itself demonstrates that the President of the United States is not voted in by the majority of the people: Here are some (not comprehensive) methods by which candidates are weeded out - call it what you may, I call it manipulation and not a true democratic process:

1. If you are not a Christian then you might as well forget it; if you are a Mormon this is also a no, no!

2. If you don't have the ability to raise $100's of millions of dollars no matter how smart, and good you are for the country you won't even make it into the primaries - you will be kicked out before you get a chance;

3. If the media does not like you, you will not get the limelight on television, nor will you be given the opportunity to discuss your position during the debates all which influences the masses - another weeding out process;

4. If you are not tall, slim or have other "undesirable" features you may as well forget it;

5. If you don't kowtow to the Israeli Lobby and pledge allegiance to Israel you will never become the President of the United States;

6. If you don't have the big lobbyists and corporations behind you and demonstrate that you are going to serve their interest then by by;

7. If you don't wear your religion on your sleeve- another big NO, NO!! If your pastor said something that the media does not like or provides a tool for the opponent - beware your negatives are piling up; If you don't demonstrate that you have strong beliefs in your religion and have attended Sunday School as a child and go to church every Sunday - no way!

8. If you are considered an "elitist" and too smart this is negative; you have to pretend or actually be dumber than the masses;

9. If you can't win the hearts and minds of the Evangelical Christians another weeding out process;

10. If you can't demonstrate that you can sit in a bar and have a beer and engage in bullshit conversations this is another negative mark;

11. If you say the truth as opposed to stating all that your campaign financiers want to hear then out you go;

12. In this country it is not vote of the majority of the people that will get you elected but a convoluted electoral process; and finally the super delegates;

13. Yes, the system can be manipulated depending on the political situation of the time. Don't forget G.W. Bush didn't really win the elections; and Ronald Reagan manipulated the hostage crisis to ensure that Carter would not win the elections; and the current presidential elections are also being manipulated by creating continuous bogymen; Al-Qaeda and now Iran in order to create an atmosphere of constant fear to frighten the American people.

14. You have to demonstrate you are a strong-fearless commander-in-chief; always ready to march into war when the phone rings at 3:00am;

Why is it that in a country of 300 million people we started off with only 8 candidates in the Democratic Party; and only 6 for the Republicans?

Immediately thereafter the weeding out process just left us with one candidate for the Republican Party and two for the Democrats. What kind of a choice is this - 3 candidates good or bad - choose between one of the three!!

So many great individuals who have all the appropriate qualifications, and can really do well for this country will never get a chance to get their voices heard – the weeding out process eliminates their eligibility.

Finally one can't even trust that the votes are counted correctly - this has been demonstrated over and over again.

You figure if this is what you call a democratic process!!


Well if you want to get technical

by Abarmard on

Technically you may argue that there are almost no real democratic elections in most of the countries. Especially if you would like to consider that only certain individuals are allowed and able to run in the Presidential election. Money talks!


The question then becomes,

by n.zanincanadai on

The question then becomes, is there a difference between "many immoral, tricky, and unfair factors at stake to help or promote a candidate" and "a handpicked president". The answer depends on one's world view. In my fatalistic, cynical view, no there is no difference. In fact, the hand picked president in Iran has more security because everyone is IN on the trick. Everyone knows the government lies and they operate withing what they know. There's some freedom in that, in a twisted way.

Mehdi. Let me add this to my speech. Democracy is a flawed system. In a truely democratic country, the poeple can vote for their candidate of choice. Multinationals can donate to pay THEIR candidates of choice and thereby allowing the candidate to have a better add and run it at better time lots. Thereby, reaching the masses better! Multinationals can help create lobbys and help candidates who don't care about the environement and so on. This is all legal and within the philosophy of a truely democratic system! It's not companies' problem if you and I are influenced by adds and if you and I don't boycut. It's not the world banks problem if you and I don't fight for a better health care system. Its you and I who don't feel the necessity to do anything about anything. Or that we don't do anything with enough force. I went to many anti war demos and I was always baffled at how low teh numbers were in comparison to what polls suggested. Democracy sucks and is a farce.

Corruption is rampant in the West. Much worse than in Iran. But it's white and shiko pik. Ex Prime Minister Mulrouney of Canada accepted a bribe in the hundreds of thousands to buy FURNITURE! (bahaleh na?). Step closer and check this out. School boards have problems banning vending machines because of sugar lobbies! Even though fat kids are taking over and will cripple the health system in the next 10 years or so with their health problems. Big companies get all sorts of tax breaks. Perks...I consider these bribes. But I'm tork and gheyrat is a very strong emotion.

Vanity Fair has a few really good articles on the Busch administration this month (yes, with the chick comedians on the cover).

Finally a worth while topic (besides my blogs about sluts of course). But there is no end to these discussions. I've been thinking of inventing my own governing system. The problem is that I too live in this world ruled by money and will get greedy. So, I'm thinking of skipping a few steps and going straight for inventing a religion. There's no accountability, lots of fools around to join me and the merchandising alone will make me rich (kabala braclets anyone?)



Lesson for our activists

by Mehdi on

There is a lot that most of our activists and the so-called opposition could learn from "zanincanadai." It is amazing to me that some people with years of experience in politics, still haven't realized how things work. We look at our friend Jahanshah and we find him pretty much obssessed with mullahs or the so-called Islamist. He is unaware that behind it all, is the guy/corporation/bazar who is pulling the string. And so his actions are generally a waste of time.

These corporations/individuals, etc give people "targets" to shoot at. Mullahs, basijis, pasdars, etc. And those of us who become obssessed with these fake targets (such as MEK and even the monarchists) will never penetrate the depth of the problem and their fights is generally a waste of time because they are hitting the wrong target.

The same is true in the US and anywhere else. People are obssessed with political parties and candidates, not realizing that these are not that important. A truly decent president will never be allowed in the office. Someone like our own Jahanshah will never have such a chance. Who is controlling that? There are probably tens of thousands of very qualified individuals in the US to become president but look at the choices we have. But almost all Iranian activists have this false idea that corruption takes place only in Iran. That's just obssession.


There used to be a time

by n.zanincanadai on

There used to be a time when people didn't travel much. Not in the form of migration. There would be waves here and there. But most people, lived and died on the same spot. Land was important because it was your ancestral home. People would go to war WILLINGLY to protect their land. Time flew by and now, migration patterns have grown exponentially. In some places, there is no single identity attached to the land because so many ethnic groups live together...So, land, country and all that has a different meaning. Today, money talks. The world is controlled by corporations, and they are international. Canadian oil is being estekhrajed by scandinavian countries and latin american children are used to make shoes for American companies that clothe me, the iranian! These companies have to continue working and supporting the world economy. They elect the winners. Why shouldn't they? They have interests to protect like any other family. How? By channeling money into candidates pockets. Supporting lobbys that serve their interest. Controling the media etc. So yes feshangi jan, the president is elected. I usually just wait to see how they decide to let us know...the day after.

It's all secret though. Be kasi nagia!

It's democracy at it's best. People think they have power but they don't. They think they can make changes suited for their lifestyle...but they can't. Well, they can, technically. But it has a very high cost. Multinational corporations rule the globe and do what they need to do to make more money. Even at the expense of our lives.

Take Iraq. America is a democracy right??? It fabricated evidence and against the will of its people, it went to war over a bogus and intanglible idea (liberation and safety). In reality, it was for money and oil. Many lives have been lost and many companies are richer. As a result, the elections in Iraq, America and many other countries is forever taken out of the hands of people. Democray at its finest day!

Darn, I should've been a lawyer.

Jahanshah Rashidian


by Jahanshah Rashidian on

No, In democratic countries like US the elections are not manipulated and the candidates are not pre-selected like in Iran.

There might be many immoral, tricky, and unfair factors at stake to help or promote a candidate, but there is no a handpicked president  out of the ballot-box.




Of Course!

by Mehdi on

Keeping in mind that nothing in this universe is absolute, is there any doubt that this country, as well as any other country in the world, is under the thumbs of a small few? In fact, as far back in the history as I look, it is practically impossible to find an era where the government was truly serving their people. It is a bit of mystery in itself.

Ali P.

From:دموکراسی و تحزب , Today's

Ali P.

 "یکی از بزرگترین مشکلات در راه دموکراسی همین عدم درک ارتباط مسائل اجتماعی با زندگی افراد است. مردمی که رابطه ای جز رعیت و اربابی، نوکری و مالک الرقابی نمی شناسند توجهی به قوانین و تشکیلات ندارند. اینان وضع خود را طبیعی میدانند و معتقد هستند که سرنوشت، بخت و طالع و یا قدرتهای آسمانی وضعشان را تعیین کرده است. به عقیده آنها آدم ضعیف را یارای تغیییر سرنوشت نیست.